project 1951 Lanchester LD10 - Rear Corner Inspection

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

after reading the comments on the dash lighting one has come to the conclusion your car may* still have the black out bulbs fitted!

if they managed to fit one of these behind the dash id be well impressed!

(not mine sadly)

[vulgalour]

I'd never considered actual blackout bulbs would be a thing, presumably not for general household use, more of a government building thing?

[LightBulbFun]

22 minutes ago, vulgalour said:

I'd never considered actual blackout bulbs would be a thing, presumably not for general household use, more of a government building thing?

yeah its one of the reasons I posted it as I doubt many people here have ever actually seen one etc  all sides of the conflict had them, even the US which is not a country you normally associate with night time black outs etc (curiously I have seen more european and American ones than I have british ones, but that might be down to there being more Euro and American collectors than british ones etc)

indeed they where generally used where there HAD to be some sort of light, heres the description that went along with the photo I shared above  

Quote

Here you see a Vintage 230 volt 40 watt Blackout Lamp with Blue Glass and Clear Aperture at the bottom of the bulb and BC cap, this for locations where area can't be blackout/or where the Lamps can't be switched off, example in Air Raid Shelters, Hospital or other Entrances, etc. this Lamp is designed to comply with War Time Regulations (1939/45) where during Blackouts NO Lighting can be used, but these are ideal.

As you cansee the box is marked is stamped A.R.P which means Air Raid Precautions. sadly the filament in this lamp has broken.

heres a couple more british examples from another collector, these ones are Cryselco made, 15W and thankfully do still work

 

 

heres a couple US examples

 

and finally a german example 

 

 

sadly I dont have any black out lamps in my own collection, they tend to be quite rare, but would very much like to get ahold of one or 2 some day  (the above lamps being examples owned by various collectors on a lighting forum/gallery Im a member of)

[lesapandre]

I think the dash lighting was considered inadequate in contemporary road tests. The link with all the technical stuff I put in an earlier post makes some suggestions for discreet LED improvements.

[Asimo]

Lots of aluminium used in early-post-war cars - there was a steel shortage and a suddenly under used aluminium industry with a huge number of scrap aeroplanes to recycle.

[lesapandre]

8 minutes ago, Asimo said:

Lots of aluminium used in early-post-war cars - there was a steel shortage and a suddenly under used aluminium industry with a huge number of scrap aeroplanes to recycle.

Hence partly the reason for the body on the original Land Rover. 

[vulgalour]

It's odd to see with modern eyes, you tend to associate aluminium with being a high quality weight saving performance material, rather than just some old junk that was lying about the place needing to be used.

--

The new (to me) auxilliary lights arrived today so that meant I could get those fitted. It also meant I had a closer look under the front and found a reason why the new wiring loom is probably a good idea.  There's all sorts of non-original wiring going on there, and who knows exactly why.  It does look like it's been there quite a while so perhaps this was done while the car was still in use and perhaps it was the failing wiring that actually took it off the road.

For those unfamiliar with it (I know I am) here's a view of the front suspension.  Overall, there's nothing I can see that's obviously problematic, some cleaning and regreasing will highlight anything that can't be seen right now.

I knew from the manual that there was  a drain tap for the coolant system somewhere and was pleased to find it and find that it's quite easy to access.  I haven't attempted to turn it yet, I want the car out of the garage and moving under its own power before flushing the coolant.  I assume the internal thread in the drain tap is so that you can connect a suitable hose and direct the old coolant into a recepticle rather than just dumping it unceremoniously on the floor.

I did test the auxilliary lights and couldn't get any life out of them.  This isn't that important since they were bought mainly for show and to fill the existing holes in the bumper infill panel.  They really are perfect for this car, just the right amount of rust and deterioration to look like they've always been there and just the right size for where the previous holes were drilled.  I had to open out the driving light hole a tiny bit with a needle file to accept the bolt stem, the fog light isn't fitted yet as that hole is much smaller and will need drilling out a little larger.  It's an existing hole for an auxilliary light so I don't mind drilling this up a size to match the new light that's going in, we wouldn't even be fitting auxilliary lights if the holes weren't there to begin with.

I'm charging the cordless drill at the moment, I can't get to my drill bits and chuck for the corded drill because the Lanchester is blocking them in and I'm too much of a weakling to push this car up the very slight incline of the drive on my own.  New wipers have been ordered from https://www.s-v-c.co.uk/ which were the most affordable online.  Marine suppliers seemed not to stock the peg type, only the more common bayonet type wipers.  SVC were the most affordable alternative I could find.  I've been getting increasingly nervous about the wiper arms having no blades on them, horrible visions of scratching the screen by accident, or misplacing the arms if I remove them, so thought it best to get some new wipers to remove the anxiety and tick another item off the list.

Speaking of the list:

• Wiper blades - ordered
• ignition leads - ordered
• Change oil and filter
• Flush and replace coolant
• Rebuild carburettor
• Full set of tyres, possibly inner tubes too
• Refurbish dynamo
• Refurbish starter motor
• Repair/replace wiring loom - ordered new
• Grease gun and grease
• Indicator/sidelight combination LED bulbs for front (hidden item)
• Indicator/high level brake light combination LED for rear (hidden item)
• Replace bulbs where necessary
• Repair/replace exhaust
• Door handle gaskets
• Boot seal
• Pedal rubber seals
• Stud/bolt for bonnet release/mascot
• Bolt for rocker cover to air cleaner
• Fixings for bonnet side panels
• Rear view mirror
• Window winder escutcheon (driver's side front door)
• Carpet set
• Tool roll (original if possible, equivalent if not)
• Clean out and underseal all arches
• Clean engine bay
• Polish and wax bodywork to preserve
• Repair seat leather
• Revarnish interior wood
• Re-scumble instrument cluster

Much of the list is standard recommissioning items, as is to be expected.

[Saabnut]

@vulgalour I am afraid that driving light will have to come off again! Unless I am mistaken, that is the "spot" lamp and you also have a "fog" lamp. The fog lamp should go on the nearside to illuminate the kerb/verge/ditch in foggy weather, the spot lamp illuminates the centre of the road further away at high* speed. These things matter you know

[Mally]

The rad drain tap looks like a gas tap to me.

Might be threaded for the next bit of gas pipe?

[vulgalour]

@Saabnut I would get it the wrong way around, wouldn't I?  Easy enough to swap at least.

[SiC]

I love the technical simplicity of lever arm dampers. Do these leak like the MGB/Midget ones? On them they leak out of the back.

I opened mine up, drained what little mess was left and then refilled with fresh lever arm oil. Then sealed up the back again with instant gasket.  Oil I refilled with was the lever arm oil from Moss but I'm sure it's exactly the same as some other commonly available oil if Googled around. 

[PhilA]

17 minutes ago, SiC said:

I love the technical simplicity of lever arm dampers. Do these leak like the MGB/Midget ones? On them they leak out of the back.

I opened mine up, drained what little mess was left and then refilled with fresh lever arm oil. Then sealed up the back again with instant gasket.  Oil I refilled with was the lever arm oil from Moss but I'm sure it's exactly the same as some other commonly available oil if Googled around. 

Early version of the adjustable damper- out heavier oil in for a more sporting feel, lighter for a more sedate ride.

Probably find it is 100-130 weight straight mineral oil.

If they don't leak, nothing wrong with them! Perfectly good method of reducing suspension oscillation. Telescopic dampers are lighter and more compact a design, I was surprised to see them all round on mine- which looks remarkably similar to yours underneath.

Phil

[PhilA]

1 hour ago, vulgalour said:

• Grease gun and grease

 

• Indicator/sidelight combination LED bulbs for front (hidden item)
• Indicator/high level brake light combination LED for rear (hidden item)

Item 1: Cannot recommend Wanner enough for grease guns. 

Item 2: High level brake light is a damn good idea. Indicators probably a good idea but superfluous maybe. Food for thought- the light assemblies you have on the back were available in a 1- and 2- bulb arrangement. The 2 bulb had a red glass cap over a 21/5 bulb for tail and brake lights, and a clear glass bulb above for reversing light, and a frosted clear lens the same shape as the left hand lens on the car already.

Those, with orange bulbs for indicators in, perhaps? Even the white/yellow ones and you could have a 4 function lamp hidden on the back?

 

Phil

 

Edit: Hide you some hyper-bright white LEDs in the aux lights and have them as DRL's, get in the mind of the modern Audi pilot.

[beko1987]

8 minutes ago, PhilA said:

Item 1: Cannot recommend Wanner enough for grease guns. 

Item 2: High level brake light is a damn good idea. Indicators probably a good idea but superfluous maybe. Food for thought- the light assemblies you have on the back were available in a 1- and 2- bulb arrangement. The 2 bulb had a red glass cap over a 21/5 bulb for tail and brake lights, and a clear glass bulb above for reversing light, and a frosted clear lens the same shape as the left hand lens on the car already.

Those, with orange bulbs for indicators in, perhaps? Even the white/yellow ones and you could have a 4 function lamp hidden on the back?

 

Phil

 

Edit: Hide you some hyper-bright white LEDs in the aux lights and have them as DRL's, get in the mind of the modern Audi pilot.

Lighting is one thing I was wondering about... It sounds good fun driving up quiet B roads using the semaphores etc but on an A road in town... Stealth is deffo the way it should be, but would it be safer if its there? I bet thay car looks frighteningly small next to a 3 door fiesta/corsa from the last 20 years

 

[vulgalour]

It's narrow, rather than small.  I need a chair to wash the roof, so it's the height and the odd shape (in modern traffic) that'll make it visible more than anything I'd expect.  Fitting high level lights on the back of the Princess made it lots more visible, and the standard rear light location on that is both larger and higher up than on the Lanchester so I'm pretty sure some high level rear lights are going to make it much safer as a result.

[beko1987]

That is true, its going to stand out enough on its own isn't it! 

Plus I guess you've got the princess for going into town and boring menial daily driving as the modern car on the fleet. This is for Sundays and high-days

[lesapandre]

You might want to consider fitting indicators. Semaphores are ok but they do stick sometime and modern drivers being what they are. You could convert the side lights or driving lights on the front..on the rear maybe convert the existing lights. I think semaphores can be converted to flash too and used in addition. Be a pity to see the car bumped by some idiot who "didn't see you indicate M8".

Enjoying this thread enormously. When I started driving in 1977 these were still student bangers going for a few quid. Great to see it.

 

[vulgalour]

As previously covered, indicators are being fitted, sneaky indicators that you only see when they're on.  We might be doing the flashing light upgrade to the semaphores too, we haven't decided on that one, it's an easy enough one to do if we want to go that way, or to revert to standard.

---

Spent some more time with hand files to enlarge the holes for the auxilliary lights, even charged, the cordless drill just wasn't cutting through the steel as quickly as the little hand files were so I kept at it the old fashioned way.  The loose wires from the lamps are tidied up around the bumper irons for now, since the lamps are just for show.  We'll rewire these when we fit the new loom, get them working properly.  They do suit the car rather well.  The auxilliary lamps are a driving and a fog matched pair from Marchal, and just about perfect for what the car is.  The fog light lens is cracked and that doesn't matter either, if we find a good lens then we'll probably fit that, for now it's not important.

The other item I tackled was the front number plate.  I had a suitable stiff bristled brush and some black enamel and I just wanted to make the front plate more legible without making it new .  This was tricky because I didn't want to lose the wear on the plate by simply painting the whole thing black, which would have been quite easy.  Instead, I followed https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvZe6ZCbF9xgbbbdkiodPKQ Baumgartner's lead by filling in just what was distracting around the letters to bring the plate into better focus without making it look brand new.  The new enamel should dull down to match the old so that it's not quite as obvious.  The stiff bristled brush allowed for better control of the paint's texture so it wasn't too perfect, or too imperfect, next to what was there.  Today's bits of work hopefully look like I haven't really done anything, because that was my goal with these additions.

[Saabnut]

Looks so much better all round (especially the lights being mounted the right way round ) Looking good.

[PhilA]

You've given it that Riley look now. Very upmarket. Good job on the plate.

[beko1987]

I've lost hours watching Baumgartner! When he shows in real time what he's doing then says it took him 77 hours to complete that stage etc...You've got to love what you do for that much effort!

[ETCHY]

This is such a terrific thread, any on here where an old car is being kept going are good, but this one about an honest old car from a little known marque being recommissioned  (but not overly restored) are a joy to read & I look forward to each installment.

I also do like those "nose out of the garage" shots, as if the modern products weren't in the frame, they could easily be from about 1970 or something, when this would have been some old cheap daily driver !

Really great work.

 

 

[HMC]

Great progress already. I’m seeing some parallel thinking from P4s I’ve owned in terms of body engineering and suspension , materials (esp ally panelling) etc which is no surprise given the similar gestation period and intended market.

[HMC]

Can I also say what a car- it’s autoshite circa 1973.

[martc]

7 hours ago, vulgalour said:

I knew from the manual that there was  a drain tap for the coolant system somewhere and was pleased to find it and find that it's quite easy to access.  I haven't attempted to turn it yet, I want the car out of the garage and moving under its own power before flushing the coolant.  I assume the internal thread in the drain tap is so that you can connect a suitable hose and direct the old coolant into a recepticle rather than just dumping it unceremoniously on the floor.

 

There was a lot of mingebaggery going on in the 40's and 50's. That tap will allow you to add a hose and fill your tin bath up with warm coolant in order to wash off the splashes of old engine oil you used to creosote your garden fence (or something like that).

Vulgalor awaiting his turn to use the bath after doing the fence.

[Mr Pastry]

57 minutes ago, HMC said:

it’s autoshite circa 1973.

Yes.  Watching this with interest, because in the mid 1970s a mate bought one of these from an ad in Exchange and Mart.  It was a non runner,  and he went down to Sussex with his dad to tow it back to London.  Dad was an experienced caravan tower but had no idea how to cope with an old car on a short towrope, so after a few miles at normal speeds with hardly any brakes, my mate in the Lanchester was scared witless.  He had a (very rare} attack of common sense, and they abandoned the car by the roadside.  I got a call the next morning - would I like a Lanchester 10 for nothing?  I thought carefully for about 5 seconds and decided I would, and so set off for Sussex with another more experienced mate, and Morris 1100 tow car.  When we reached the spot the Lanchester had gone.  We eventually traced it to Arundel police station, but they wouldn't let us take it away, and that was that.  No idea what happened to it.  So not a happy ending, but now I realise just what has been missing from my life all these years.

 

[barefoot]

15 hours ago, vulgalour said:

The other item I tackled was the front number plate... filling in just what was distracting around the letters to bring the plate into better focus.

That is very clever, and well done with the result.

[Angrydicky]

Numberplate looks much better! Love the old driving lamps too.

I was quite surprised to see independent front coil sprung suspension under there. I was expecting leaf springs, as I thought these were quite pre-war under the skin. Just goes to show!

[vulgalour]

I'm on my own today so I'm a little limited on what I can actually achieve.  Plenty of time before work, Saturday is always a very late start and finish, which is good for tinkering.  It was also fortunate that the parts that would enable tinkering arrived today, we could finally complete the ignition leads and see if we could get to the bottom of the car's running issue.

The Lanchester is running modern 'bullet' type spark plugs with the old 'acorn' style distributor cap.  I ordered parts to make leads to fit both of these things since the plugs look fairly new and the cap is in excellent condition, there's no real cost saving replacing the cap to accomodate more modern leads and I've always wanted to have a go at making my own ignition leads so this seemed an ideal opportunity.  The acorn type fitting is new to me, 'acorn' referring to the screw fitting that goes into the distributor cap.  You trim back the sheath of the wire, feed a little brass disc onto the wires and then fan them out as evenly as you can to provide your connection.  The screw fitting keeps everything very secure and while it's a little fiddly, it's quite pleasing to do.  At the spark plug end, I opted for screw on caps rather than crimp on ones, I liked the look of these and it meant I could avoid crimps, which I don't really enjoy doing.  As it turns out, it's quite easy to install these and in a matter of minutes I had a nice new set of matching leads.

The distributor cap was in surprisingly good condition, I don't think it's a new item as there's some signs of wear.  Likewise the rotor arm and points, neither of which look like they're in need of anything at all.

The leads are on the long side, I guessed at the lengths since what was fitted before wasn't really a good template.  Once I know everything is good and working I will shorten the leads accordingly, because of the acorn fittings that's actually really easy to do.  The red actually turned out to be a good choice, it's much easier to see what you're doing because of the contrast they provide.  Unfortunately I'd made one mistake which is I bought what I thought was a straight coil connector to match the plug elbow connectors, what I'd actually bought was a straight plug connector, so it doesn't fit the coil.  No bother, I stole the king lead from the Princess which actually fit the acorn cap surprisingly well and allowed me to test the new leads.

The good news is the car cranks so much more willingly now.  Unfortunately, it didn't want to play ball and the starter motor just eventually gave up and wouldn't do anything.  I can't use the hand crank because, as spotted by a reader, it looks like the front engine mount is worn out because the pulley sits low, which makes it pretty much impossible to line up the crank handle.  Never mind, an attempt was made and I've learned these new wires are a significant improvement over the old.  Part of the reason the old wires weren't working was them having the wrong connectors at the distributor cap end, another was that one of the connectors had broken apart, and another issue was that they tried to plug one of the leads into an acorn fitting that was still in the distributor, the barest bit of old lead wire sticking out was just about making a connection.  Really, it's a miracle the car ran at all.

I was going to order a new coil cap for the lead I'd done incorrectly when I had a brainwave and realised I could just salvage a crimp fitting and boot from one of the old leads, which is exactly what I did.  Following the way the old lead was put together, I stripped back the lead sheath and folded the wire back so it made a good connection with the crimp, and then crimped it.  The lead and boot fits the coil very snugly and should, I hope, be a good solution.

I do suspect the starter motor's issue could be down to the old wiring.  We've had a few things like the lights that were working now not, and the wipers have stopped working too, which leads me to believe there's some very poor connections around the car.  At least we have heard it running so we know that it does, it's just a little frustrating not to have it running again so we can carry on with the tidy up and problem solving.  Speaking of the wipers, the new blades arrived, I've never fitted this type of wiper before so I just did what looked correct.  They're quite wibbly-wobbly, seemingly by design, and the new blades come with a protective film you have to peel off before fitting.  The blades rely entirely on a little rubber peg that you push through a hole to keep them held in the arms.  It's not a fantastic design, I can see why more cars use the bayonet type.

I had hoped to test the wipers, unfortunately they're now not working which is likely down to a poor electrical connection somewhere.  However, the washer jets are entirely manual, so I wanted to see if I could get those going.  The washer bottle slides into a bracket screwed to the bulkhead, it was sitting a bit loose so I knew the bracket was sprained, I've seen that on newer cars.  Removed the bottle, straightened the bracket, and then saw some old yellow glue that looked like it had been used to pack out the back of the bottle to fit the sprained bracket.  My assumption was incorrect, the old yellow glue on one side was hiding a massive crack where someone has used too much forst on the bottle.  This can probably be repaired with some care, though a new bottle would be better.

There's a little hand pump on the dash for the washers, a few pumps to prime the line and then all at once the button went quite firm and four perfectly aimed jets of clean water hit the screen.  I was honestly expecting them to be blocked, or to fire out sludge, or to leak.  Nothing of the sort, they just work and work exceptionally well, certainly no need for an electric upgrade.  I'd love to show you the wipers in action, but sadly until we get to the bottom of the wiring I can't do that.

They're only small steps forward, but steps forward nonetheless.

There's a couple of items to add and a couple to remove from the list now, so here we go:

Service and Mechanical

• Change oil and filter
• Flush and replace coolant
• Rebuild carburettor
• Full set of tyres and inner tubes
• Adjust brakes
• Acquire/repair washer bottle
• Acquire front engine mount
• Acquire grease gun and grease
• Repair/replace exhaust
• Tool roll (original if possible, equivalent if not)

Electrical

• Inspect dynamo
• Inspect starter motor
• Replace wiring loom - ordered new
• Acquire battery clamp
• Indicator/sidelight combination LED bulbs for front (hidden item)
• Indicator/high level brake light combination LED for rear (hidden item)
• Replace bulbs where necessary
• Inspect wiper motor

Cosmetic

• Door handle gaskets
• Boot seal
• Pedal rubber seals
• Stud/bolt for bonnet release/mascot
• Bolt for rocker cover to air cleaner
• Fixings for bonnet side panels
• Rear view mirror
• Window winder escutcheon (driver's side front door)
• Carpet set
• Clean out and underseal all arches
• Clean engine bay
• Polish and wax bodywork to preserve
• Repair seat leather
• Revarnish interior wood
• Re-scumble instrument cluster

[vulgalour]

Car caught me off guard when I didn't have the camera and just started on the first pull and idled quite happily, even responded well to throttle.  I wasn't really expecting it, just trying 'on the off chance' since a neighbour appeared and we got chatting old cars.  Still no drive but I haven't topped up the fluid flywheel yet so it could well be that.  I sort of panicked a bit, turned it off so I could grab my camera, and then when I tried to restart it wouldn't.  Should have just let it idle, it's not like it was going to go anywhere!

The electrics are being a bit odd though, some things work, and then they don't, so I wonder if the starting problem is actually more to do with the wiring loom being shot now because when the car does start, it's quite happy to run.  A new loom is on the way of course, and that will help.  The ignition light even went out when I applied throttle!  These are all VERY good signs, I just wish I'd caught it on camera for you.