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Toyota RAV4 GX "Jack" - Hobbyweld 15 isn't the same as Hobbyweld 5, and it costs you a good 6 hours of a Saturday to make the mistake right.


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3 hours ago, Ian_Fearn said:

@sgtberbatov are you able to access your cars subframe enough to visually compare it with the one on eBay? It would be a real shame for this to end up scrapped, there are so few left now.

Alternatively, are you sure it’s not repairable? 

I might go under it tomorrow and take a photo of it as best I can. And I've been studying that listing on eBay, it's actually fairly local to me so I'm going to see if they're open tomorrow and inspect it if I can. Plus see if the control arms are there too, then haggle like fuck to get it all for as cheap as possible.

3 hours ago, Parky said:

I would have thought it fixable, the only concern being the extended use of profanity in the phrase “ohhhhh fuuuuuuuckin helllllll”. Whether used by an MOT man looking at a subframe or your GP when looking at your X-ray or blood test results, it’s generally not good.  At all.  

Well it wasn't. He felt bad for failing it but he was positive about it as well. He reckoned that it's literally just those few things, the rest of it was fine. 

1 hour ago, Tickman said:

I did the front subframe on my Suzuki Baleno and I was surprised how straightforward it was. I did make sure that bolts we well soaked before starting.

My MOT tester had told me that fixing the subframe rust was no longer allowed but if it couldn't be seen then nobody would know.

I took the slightly rusty one off and it was absolutely fucked in places you couldn't see!

I'll be honest, I wouldn't weld a subframe together with new steel. Seems sketchy, although most subframes are two bits of metal welded together anyway.

2 hours ago, Agila said:

Honestly just get underneath it and think long and hard before you do anything like order parts or pay any more money.

If I can get the subframe as above, and the control arm (doesn't need two, but if I can change the two at the same time it'd make sense) then I will probably give it a whirl. When I did the Corolla, I took the subframe and arms off and you're not wrong about old Toyotas and seized bolts. So from that experience I know getting it off will be the hard bit.

Still, as I said, if I can get that subframe (and it's correct) and arms from that place then I'll do it. I've never been in a position where the wife has been disappointed that a car of mine is possibly terminal. The in laws were also disappointed about it, as they like the car. Makes a mockery of my website but there you are!

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On 7/29/2020 at 6:17 PM, TrabbieRonnie said:

Well bought, we had one in the same fetching shade of green for a few years...  My wife (it was hers really), absolutely loved it, they are much better to drive than they should be!   

My mum had one brand new just like that in 1996, but it was an auto, when my old man got ill as you could get them on the original motability scheme if you put a few bob towards it. 

She thought, and still does to this day it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. The old man died a year later so she had to hand it back as it wasn't cheap to buy or run back then compared to her little 1.3 Fiesta.

She said its the only car she's ever literally cried about getting rid of. 

Well bought,they've certainly stood the test of time. 

 

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2 hours ago, sgtberbatov said:

 

I'll be honest, I wouldn't weld a subframe together with new steel. Seems sketchy, although most subframes are two bits of metal welded together anyway.

I really don’t think a properly welded subframe is an issue. In fact, done right could easily be stronger than original providing the main structure is still ok.

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4 hours ago, Ian_Fearn said:

I really don’t think a properly welded subframe is an issue. In fact, done right could easily be stronger than original providing the main structure is still ok.

It's the idea that puts me off it. Plus I think by the time I got to good steel on the existing subframe, I'd be fabricating a new one from scratch.

4 hours ago, TrabbieRonnie said:

Good luck with it Sgt...  We miss ours, the fuel tank and rear arches eventually took her away, shouldn't have given up so easily.  

Cheers bud. I should really check the fuel tank actually. Well I will be when I need to do the welding!

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Well guys, I think we're on like fat pat's thong.

IMG_20210102_115316.thumb.jpg.91afeef796dd2d22f4f872b79dda763e.jpg

Searched every Japanese breakers in Birmingham, ending up at the seller of the subframe @Ian_Fearn shared. Bit of haggling later, I got it for £120.

Wishbones though were non existent, although I see one on eBay for £30. I haven't actually studied Autodoc yet for a new one though.

So at the very least, there is a new subframe in good condition to go on the car. I'm going to clean it up and stone chip it to protect it more though.

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Quick check on Autodoc while I'm in the queue at Waitrose (butchers have no lambs kidneys apparently, and I want me a steak and kidney pie today), I can get the control arms for £37 each.

I will probably need to purchase new bolts from Toyota though.

So I'm sure I can get this all done for under £200 now. Which is better than the £400+ I initially thought it'd cost.

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33 minutes ago, spartacus said:

I admire your perseverance, you do deserve to succeed at low cost! I hope those rusted monkey metal bolts don't put up too much of a fight.

I've a metre long breaker bar in the garage that served me well when the Corolla's bolts refused to budge.

If that doesn't shift them then, well I don't know but they will come out. One way or the other.

Control arms have now been purchased. Ashaki ones, which means cheap. First time buying anything from Autodoc since Brexit, but was pleasantly surprised to see delivery is still £7. Given that they're in Germany and we're no longer in the EU, I thought that might change.

They'll turn up in 2 weeks now, so I miss the 10 day retest thing but I don't mind that. Gives me time to clean and protect the new subframe as well as weld the bits of the sill that are frilly.

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Really pleased you are persevering with this. I really like this car and would have been tempted to buy it off you if you didn’t want the work but this defiantly takes the pressure off me 😂

On a serious note, my experience of removing subframe bolts is that an impact wrench works better than hanging off a long bar. It’s a damn sight easier too.

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On 1/2/2021 at 5:09 PM, Ian_Fearn said:

Really pleased you are persevering with this. I really like this car and would have been tempted to buy it off you if you didn’t want the work but this defiantly takes the pressure off me 😂

On a serious note, my experience of removing subframe bolts is that an impact wrench works better than hanging off a long bar. It’s a damn sight easier too.

I'm pissed off it's taking me away from the Lada, but I was surprised more at how the wife reacted to it as she likes it along with nearly everyone who has seen it. So I'll do it. Shouldn't be too long given as the subframe and wishbones are being replaced as one thing. Might have been more of a pain in the arse if I was trying to refurbish a used wishbone or trying to fit new bushes to it.

I have a rule of buying tools only when needed. I know the subframe bolts will benefit from the impact wrench, so I'm going to get one for it nearer the time.  I remember that clearly from the Corolla's subframe - an impact wrench would make light work of it.

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On 1/2/2021 at 4:02 PM, sgtberbatov said:

First time buying anything from Autodoc since Brexit, but was pleasantly surprised to see delivery is still £7. Given that they're in Germany and we're no longer in the EU, I thought that might change

They put delivery to Ireland up from €20 to €30 early this year, and we are still in the EU. They have also stopped having any discounting, so it's not worth the effort ordering stuff unless the order is €150.

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1 hour ago, artdjones said:

They put delivery to Ireland up from €20 to €30 early this year, and we are still in the EU. They have also stopped having any discounting, so it's not worth the effort ordering stuff unless the order is €150.

That's odd for them to do it. Unless Mick's Garage has ran them out of the country?

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.

1 minute ago, sgtberbatov said:

That's odd for them to do it. Unless Mick's Garage has ran them out of the country?

I've used Mick's on occasion, as the stuff often gets there the next day,  but the local factors give me trade discount, so I usually use them.

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Given the article I saw yesterday on the BBC, regarding some EU companies not accepting orders from the UK because HMRC demand that they register for VAT (which is ridiculous, but not as ridiculous as the forthcoming EU tax rule that mandates a UK company register for VAT in every single EU country, coming 2021), I was worried that the Autodoc order wouldn't be fulfilled. Or, they'd demand more money for the postage, as TNT and FedEx are upping their prices. And, as well as this, Germany being in a full lockdown themselves. So it was proper itchy bum time here.

But no. Got an email today saying delivery is confirmed, and the wishbones are on their way. Marvellous. 

Going out to do a film of the cars at lunchtime, so hopefully I'll get a shot of the rotten wishbones and subframe for y'all to gaze upon. 

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So I went out to film a video recapping the cars, and talking more about the RAV4's fail sheet. It suddenly dawned on me that I didn't actually call Toyota to see how much a subframe and wishbones would cost.

WELL! The subframe would cost about £480. The wishbones would cost the same again, each. So that subframe best bloody fit now!!!!

Here's as good a photo as I could get of the wishbone and subframe:

IMG_20210105_134419.thumb.jpg.f6a270fdddc133bcc1447d2fd4e2aaac.jpg

IMG_20210105_134413.thumb.jpg.d9706a932c5c705def0cf8c7e436293c.jpg

IMG_20210105_134406.thumb.jpg.51970410941b666721abfd717a7257a7.jpg

As you can see here, above where the wishbone joins the subframe, behind the driveshaft, that part of the subframe should have four sides. You shouldn't be able to see inside it like this!

IMG_20210105_134400.thumb.jpg.30172ec7f5bc015fb71dc09635603dd4.jpg

Here's as good a photo as I could get of the sill on the driver's side:

IMG_20210105_134503.thumb.jpg.db20b1f951437d236253932598ff5ea5.jpg

So yeah, it's all fun and games :)

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1 hour ago, Ian_Fearn said:

@sgtberbatov Can you weld?

You haven't seen my Lada video, have you?

I'm learning to weld. I've been welding patch panels on the Lada. The sills I'm going to do, but a subframe would put me off. At least right now anyway. 

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35 minutes ago, sgtberbatov said:

You haven't seen my Lada video, have you?

I'm learning to weld. I've been welding patch panels on the Lada. The sills I'm going to do, but a subframe would put me off. At least right now anyway. 

Just had a quick scan through your video. Maybe I didn’t see your improved work but I agree, don’t do the subframe just yet. 

My gut feel is that you are starting from an impossible point. That Maypole welder will unlikely ever produce high quality welds and judging by the porosity in the weld, you don’t have enough shielding gas flow. I keep banging on about it but a good quality welding machine will transform the quality of your welding. I had an entry level Clarke machine for years and my welding was very average at best. I now have a Portamig and honestly, you could weld KitKat wrappers with it 😉. I’m not professing to be a pro by any means but I have become reasonably experienced welding to shitty thin rusty metal on old cars that would otherwise be scrapped.

The Portamig even managed to do the roof line on the Castle Gresley Rover 800 and that was seriously thin.

If it weren’t for Covid, I would happily give you some hands on practice with my welder.

https://www.weldequip.com/portamig-mig-welders.htm

 

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35 minutes ago, Ian_Fearn said:

Just had a quick scan through your video. Maybe I didn’t see your improved work but I agree, don’t do the subframe just yet. 

My gut feel is that you are starting from an impossible point. That Maypole welder will unlikely ever produce high quality welds and judging by the porosity in the weld, you don’t have enough shielding gas flow. I keep banging on about it but a good quality welding machine will transform the quality of your welding. I had an entry level Clarke machine for years and my welding was very average at best. I now have a Portamig and honestly, you could weld KitKat wrappers with it 😉. I’m not professing to be a pro by any means but I have become reasonably experienced welding to shitty thin rusty metal on old cars that would otherwise be scrapped.

The Portamig even managed to do the roof line on the Castle Gresley Rover 800 and that was seriously thin.

If it weren’t for Covid, I would happily give you some hands on practice with my welder.

https://www.weldequip.com/portamig-mig-welders.htm

 

Ah yeah I've moved on since the Maypole thing! I've a Clarke TurboMig thingy bob which has attached the floor section to the the Lada.

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Once it’s off, cleaned up and wire brushed and areas are accessible I don’t think it will be quite as scary.  Accessibility is the key to something like this.  And a ton of rust preventative afterwards of course.  Anything metal can be remanufactured if you have the kit, time, and skills.  And even if the new subframe is wrong there are bound to be sections of the correct thickness and profile you can chop out to attach to your old one.

In fact if it’s off and cleaned up you could get it powder coated and enter the RAV in the Concours d’elegance at Pebble Beach afterwards

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18 hours ago, Ian_Fearn said:

If the replacement subframe won’t fit and you need to repair the old one, if you can shitely it to Derby I’d be happy to have a go at repairing it.

Thanks for that. I'll supply you with whatever tickles your own vices for the trouble.

15 hours ago, Parky said:

Once it’s off, cleaned up and wire brushed and areas are accessible I don’t think it will be quite as scary.  Accessibility is the key to something like this.  And a ton of rust preventative afterwards of course.  Anything metal can be remanufactured if you have the kit, time, and skills.  And even if the new subframe is wrong there are bound to be sections of the correct thickness and profile you can chop out to attach to your old one.

In fact if it’s off and cleaned up you could get it powder coated and enter the RAV in the Concours d’elegance at Pebble Beach afterwards

Quite possibly yes. The new one is oily, which I like, but it looks straight enough etc. 

I got the email from Autodoc with the tracking number, and at the moment I think it's being collected. So I would say by this time next week I'll have the wishbones. 

Still waiting on an invoice to come to get an impact wrench, so depending how utterly bored I am on Saturday I may jack it up and just start attacking the sills.

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On 1/2/2021 at 4:02 PM, sgtberbatov said:

Control arms have now been purchased. Ashaki ones, which means cheap. First time buying anything from Autodoc since Brexit, but was pleasantly surprised to see delivery is still £7. Given that they're in Germany and we're no longer in the EU, I thought that might change.

They'll turn up in 2 weeks now, so I miss the 10 day retest thing but I don't mind that. Gives me time to clean and protect the new subframe as well as weld the bits of the sill that are frilly.

Well. That was the 2nd January when the parts were ordered, it's now the 14th January. 

Autodoc's package loser distributor was last updated on the 6th January with "The parcel was handed over to GLS". That's been it so far.

So I'll be honest, it's definitely going to be the end of the month before I even have the parts to tackle the job. And the longer it goes on, the more I wonder what other things can I do to the car. So I'm also ordering new rear diff mounts and going to change the other two oil seals that I didn't do before. As the input seal is weeping a bit, and that is definitely a diff out job.

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  • St.Jude changed the title to Toyota RAV4 GX "Jack" - Hobbyweld 15 isn't the same as Hobbyweld 5, and it costs you a good 6 hours of a Saturday to make the mistake right.

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