project 2002 Renault Clio II 172

[SiC]

remember that civic that got replaced by "clean" modern german? yes that one, the one that is lez compliant!
this is mine 1.8ex- Brizzol will be using same as Brum
We'll implement the same scheme as Birmingham so if the checker shows a daily charge for Birmingham, you'll have to pay to drive your vehicle into Bristol’s CAZ. 

Clean Air Zone charge

Results for number plate BV07DPY.

Bath	No Charge	Now	Zone boundary	Bath and North East Somerset Council
Birmingham	No Charge	Now	Zone boundary	Birmingham City Council
Portsmouth	No Charge	Late 2021	Zone boundary	Portsmouth City Council

My Civic was a diesel. It was replaced with the TT that was exempt when the Civic was written off. The TT was replaced by the Boxster which isn't exempt.

A4 replaced my Laguna V6 which was exempt. That's owned by angle of this parish who lives in Bristol right next to the zone and very much needs an exempt car!

[1duck]

I've always wanted to tick the 172/182 off my list, but having read this thread i really don't think i want one anymore! 

[SiC]

49 minutes ago, 1duck said:

I've always wanted to tick the 172/182 off my list, but having read this thread i really don't think i want one anymore! 

I guess if you get any hot hatch or performance car then it'll need plenty of TLC. The Clio is no exception, even if they are cheap to buy. 

There isn't much else sub 3k that can offer similar performance and handling really. MX5 is one but you trade mechanical reliability for rot, also not as quick. MGF/TF you trade for HGF and rot too. Mini R53 Cooper S are more complex than the Clio and have their own set of problems. TT MK1 has a solid body but even more complex and working on is supposed to be worse than the Clio. SLK doesn't handle anywhere near as well and rot issues too. Then there is the large saloons but that's a complete different kettle of fish with handling. 

I can see why people fall in love with them. Also not sure why anyone would get a 205 over a 1*2. Yes the 205 is iconic but the 1*2 is getting to that stage quickly too now. Especially with the likes of Evo, etc using as a benchmark for small hot hatch for so long. The 1*2 can do everything the 205 can but better and (at the moment) cheaper.

With the amount of stripped out track cars and ruined modded cars, the pool of decent 1*2 is drying up quick now. 

[Split_Pin]

I paid £1450 for mine in 2018, that would barely get a runner today.

I have unfinished business with 172s after I had to sell mine quickly because of rot, but my wife has had a notion for us all to get bikes so I need a car with a towbar to take a bike rack. That wouldn't work on a wee Clio!

[1duck]

11 minutes ago, SiC said:

With the amount of stripped out track cars and ruined modded cars, the pool of decent 1*2 is drying up quick now. 

i think you've hit the nail on the head ther. same with civic type Rs which i think would be the main alternative in my mind. They've all been ragged to death, but that's exactly the point of them so it's either that or stupid money for a pampered one that was bought by some old guy who happened to tick the i want the top spec car box at the dealership then garaged it and never drove it as it was designed to be driven.

Combine that with like you say all the speed cameras everywhere and suddenly they aren't as appealing.

 i already have an mx5 sat in my dads yard waiting on me doing the timing belt/water pump which realistically isn't going to happen any time soon. Shame really as i enjoyed that car a lot, but it now being nearly 100 miles away it isn't going to get any love any time soon. I think the mx5 is the better car because it feels fun even at speeds that won't lose you your licence! you've almost convinced me of my need to go over and get it fixed.

[SiC]

1 hour ago, 1duck said:

i think you've hit the nail on the head ther. same with civic type Rs which i think would be the main alternative in my mind. They've all been ragged to death, but that's exactly the point of them so it's either that or stupid money for a pampered one that was bought by some old guy who happened to tick the i want the top spec car box at the dealership then garaged it and never drove it as it was designed to be driven.

I didn't mention EP3 CTRs as they are predominantly above £3k now. They also suffer from rot, gearbox problems on higher mileage examples and the suspension is quite a complex setup. They're also a more spartan spec than the Clio. You get a basic climate control system (Honda AC never doesn't seem to chuck out as much cold air though!) but not things you expect like auto lights, wipers and xenon's on the early ones. Bigger cars too. 

I'm a massive Honda fan and I've had a 7th Gen Civic. Not a CTR, so it's an itch I'd like to scratch. However the value of them has really started to rocket.

1 hour ago, 1duck said:

Combine that with like you say all the speed cameras everywhere and suddenly they aren't as appealing.

With the Clio, they aren't that fast still. Only a second and half quicker than a NB MX5. But being short and light, you still can have plenty of fun chucking around tight roads that more powerful moderns would struggle to keep as much speed on. 

1 hour ago, 1duck said:

you've almost convinced me of my need to go over and get it fixed.

Do it!

1 hour ago, Split_Pin said:

I paid £1450 for mine in 2018, that would barely get a runner today.

I've been trying to figure a price to put this at. Like you said they've gone up in value but then everything has. Mine has the belts done that everyone seems to demand, has the original valuable catalytic converter and rare to be unmessed with while fully working (even Aircon). Fresh MOT too. However it's higher miles (150k), kerbed alloys and the plastic bumpers have scuffs. 

Currently thinking 2k is a reasonable price to ask for it.

1 hour ago, Split_Pin said:

I have unfinished business with 172s after I had to sell mine quickly because of rot, but my wife has had a notion for us all to get bikes so I need a car with a towbar to take a bike rack. That wouldn't work on a wee Clio!

Won't your R75 and Audi both take towbars? Clio will fit a boot mounted bike rack as I used to do that with Mrs SiC first car (Clio II 1.2)! Just more hassle putting on, off the car and getting in the boot with one of those. 

[Split_Pin]

The 75 already has a really nice Brink detachable one fitted with twin electrics. We have 3 bikes too and I remember taking that amount on holiday with a boot mounted bike rack on my mums Fiesta. I remember old belts had to be used to fashion something approaching stable!

 The Audi would take one but it seems a bit of a waste not to just use the 75 one. The Cavalier also has one although due to its age its probably not best suited to long days away.

£2k is a bargain, these engines take the miles fine, pretty sure @320touring s old one had nearly 200k and it went well.

[SiC]

48 minutes ago, Split_Pin said:

£2k is a bargain, these engines take the miles fine, pretty sure @320touring s old one had nearly 200k and it went well.

Is it? I see a few around that sort of number for sale on eBay at the moment. What do you reckon I should be asking for it?

[Split_Pin]

I'm not really an expert on prices of these, @dome's mate Stu is the expert on these.

Put it this way, if I was in the market for another 172, I'd want one that's had the belts done, usable and not been thrashed on the track. I'd jump at yours.

[dome]

The mileage might put some folk off but overall it's a pretty good one so I reckon around £2k should see you with a fairly easy sale. Ideally on here to save you having to deal with the real world! 

[riek]

On 6/24/2021 at 11:55 PM, Noel Tidybeard said:

remember that civic that got replaced by "clean" modern german? yes that one, the one that is lez compliant!😲

this is mine 1.8ex- Brizzol will be using same as Brum

We'll implement the same scheme as Birmingham so if the checker shows a daily charge for Birmingham, you'll have to pay to drive your vehicle into Bristol’s CAZ. 

Clean Air Zone charge

Results for number plate BV07DPY.

 

Bath	No Charge	Now	Zone boundary	Bath and North East Somerset Council
Birmingham	No Charge	Now	Zone boundary	Birmingham City Council
Portsmouth	No Charge	Late 2021	Zone boundary	Portsmouth City Council

If Bristol is really using the same rules as Birmingham, that's me happy. My 2002 330i comes up as no charge for Birmingham.....

[KitKat]

I'd say £2000 is very fair for yours.  I sold my 82k mile, unmodified, full-fat 182, with recent belts and lots of service history, for £3400. But 172's always seem a bit cheaper than the 182's. 

I don't miss it in the slightest. Couldn't warm to the car at all, just found it too modern, shouty and stressful to own, and was in constant fear a dash light would illuminate that I'm clueless how to fix and it would end up costing me loads of money.

On 6/25/2021 at 9:38 AM, SiC said:

Also not sure why anyone would get a 205 over a 1*2. Yes the 205 is iconic but the 1*2 is getting to that stage quickly too now. Especially with the likes of Evo, etc using as a benchmark for small hot hatch for so long. The 1*2 can do everything the 205 can but better and (at the moment) cheaper.

My old 205 XS on the other hand, I do miss. I find a 205 much more fun to own and drive than a Clio 1*2,  and totally get their appeal.  But then I'm a wrong 'un.

[SiC]

2 hours ago, sickboy said:

Couldn't warm to the car at all, just found it too modern, shouty and stressful to own, and was in constant fear a dash light would illuminate that I'm clueless how to fix and it would end up costing me loads of money.

The 172 is a bit more subtle than the 182. Not least with the stock exhaust. Out of all modern cars, the Clio is far more simple than most. In fact it'd say its easier to diagnose than a 205. There is an OBD port unlike the 205, so you actually get a proper error code for the systems and can live read the sensors. 

It doesn't even need much in the way of sensors to make it run. Sensor wise it's:

 - Crank sensor to determine engine position and speed

 - Coolant temperature sensor that predominantly determines base map fueling 

- Air intake temperature sensor - used with the MAP to determine how much air is being consumed by the engine

- MAP sensor - used to measure the vacuum of the engine. Used to determine amount of load the engine is under. Think vacuum capsule on your dizzy but also used for tweaking fuel injection. 

- Pre cat O2 sensor - used for closed loop operation (under 3.5k revs or so) to basically tweak the fuel maps (i.e. rich/lean of the fuel mix) for emissions and fuel efficiency. 

 - Accelerator pedal - driver power demand

The only one that the engine needs to run with is the crank position sensor. You can disconnect all the others and it'll run. In fact most of them won't even throw an error light if they're disconnected. Might run very rich and a bit flat but it'll run. 

Output wise:

 - Coil pack - two signals as wasted spark, so one pair is fire and then the other pair. 

 - Injectors - spraying continuously with the flow rate determined by revs/O2/etc from above

 - Dephaser solenoid - either on or off. When on, oil flows through into the Dephaser and cam timing moves to high revs. VTEC Yo

 - Throttle body - varies depending on the accelerator demand and current revs

Far simpler than anything modern that injects very precise metered amounts on each compression stroke.

All the engine parts are readily available and not terribly expensive. Even a set of genuine four injectors is under £140 brand new. In comparison that'll buy one Bosch injector for a modern GDI engine. Or two injectors for a 205 GTI, if you can find a decent supplier now. 

I guess it helps that I've always had a mix of modern and classics. Especially as my first car was a Clio II, so all this feel familiar. Plus late 90s, early 2000-era cars are my favourite. Advanced enough to still feel modern, survivable crash safety and be reasonably good on fuel, but simple enough that they are easily diagnosed and repaired.