Fizzy Bimmer - DOUBLE JEOPARDY

[gm]

5 hours ago, big_al_granvia said:

For bits speak to alan kirkaldy (contact via cairnsmill caravan park) or steven dailly at kc motorsport. Both guys have broken a load of beemers for compact cup and are good mates

https://www.cairnsmill.co.uk/

http://www.kcmotorsport.co.uk/

Paul Dailly (Steven's dad) was my tame mechanic for many years when I lived in Edinburgh, really nice bloke who loved taking the piss out of my mx5s  Definitely knows a lot about those bmw compacts, last time I was out at his place at Loanhead, he had a good half dozen in various states of race prep. say Hi from Geordie Mark when next you see hm. 

[dc2100k]

So I managed to spend an hour this afternoon having a look at the old bird. She’s pretty ravaged but strangely I’m more positive that I was when she was delivered. She’s neither worse than I imagined nor better than I expected. I am anticipating having my pants removed over and over and over again buying smol parts for here and there and again and again. 

So the aim in my little time today was to have a look at what’s in the car and a bit more of a gander at the shell. The paint is truly shit with plenty of micro blisters as I think it’s been kept outside with a cover on it. There is loads of rust but surprisingly not that* much in prescribed areas. The underside appears to have been restored* already as it appears complete and unholy, and completely undersealed so who knows. All I know is that my MOT testers stick likely won’t bother the majority of it. 

The rear beam is in good shape as are the trailing arms, the boot floor is fine, a couple of holes in the battery box but nothing mega. The front chassis legs are very nice and there’s an extra perfect front subframe in the boot. I haven’t managed to get the bonnet open yet as the flip-forwards mechanism seems inoperative but I’m sure there are some more delights in there. 

I suppose reality will bite when I take the headining off to see how bad the roof is but the sills are actually not as bad as I was expecting and could probably be mostly patched up and then slap the bonus unexpected side skirts back over. I didn’t have time today to carefully remove the headlining but thats my next task. I will probably try to remove the sunroof cassette at the same time so I can work out how I’m going to deal with the rust and then plate it, most likely reinforcing the underside of the perimeter of the sunroof and plating over the top with a 5-10cm margin all round. 

Anyway I removed everything from the car and popped the rear bumper, numberplate and surround back on to make it look less like a pile of scrap. It also gave me a chance to have a look at the bits... purple anodised seems to be the PO’s choice of shit colours. I’ve identified most of the bits but some I’m not sure about:

Purple ARBs front and rear, purple strut brace, purple front brake callipers, other purple things 

A box containing £200 of polybushes for the whole car 

random plastics from a few cars 

a steering rack blue label 

side skirts and a few splitters but no rear bumper trim

propshaft, half shafts and guibo

bunch of smol bits.

Some photos to follow, if you can help identify some unmentioned bits then that would be gr8! 

[dc2100k]

[dc2100k]

So after a couple more days pondering I have decided a rough course of action. First things first I’m going to look at the roof and the sills, then try to get the bonnet open and see what is present under the hood. If it looks like I can sort out most of the rot in non-prescribed areas fairly easily myself then I think it may be a viable project. If that is the case I will get the shell up to roadworthy standard and in the meantime find a decent early E36 318TI donor car (M42 engine) to run about in, molested or unmolested. This will give me a chance to do routine maintenance on the donor and make sure it’s running well before I do the swap. At the moment I feel like perhaps it would be easier to simply swap the entire drivetrain including front and rear suspension and brake set ups, thereby negating the need to rebuild the brakes and everything that is currently in bits inside the car. As this is a competition car I will probably delete the power steering and get rid of all the non-essentials which should make reconstruction a little easier.

 

OK so deep breath. Firstly, time to remove the headlining and sunroof cassette and grind out the rusty metal in the roof. I’m then going to plate over the sunroof aperture with a wide margin encompassing all of the removed metal. Where there is an overlap of less than 25mm I’m going to put additional plates underneath, in fact I may do this at each of the corners in order to stiffen them up, and possible bond some small angle to the underside for stiffness. I’m going to plate in a single sheet of flat steel with the minimum of shaping required, and pop rivet around the perimeter at 50mm intervals. Usually people use silicon sealant to seal this up but I’m considering using Gripbond Pro adhesive on the overlap and some seam sealer on the inside. The exterior of the sunroof will be rattle canned in diamond black and for the inside I was going to cover with a bit of foam camping mat and glue on a dark grey carpet tile where it is visible through the headlining hole. That's the plan, reality however may prove rather different. Off to charge the grinder battery and find a sheet steel merchant who's serving the public.

Anybody know what thickness of steel to use for the roof? EDIT - it seems some Golf GTI racing series requires 1.2mm (18swg) steel riveted to the roof so that's probably not a bad place to start.

[dc2100k]

So i’ve acquired a sheet of 1.5mm galvanised steel slightly oversized for the hole, and a couple of smaller offcuts of 1mm for bodywork repairs, for the princely sum of £10 from a local steel merchant. I hope everything in this project turns out to be so affordable. 

[Lord Sterling]

Is that a big table blocking the gate? Are you expecting a riot to come past or something?

[dc2100k]

39 minutes ago, Lord Sterling said:

Is that a big table blocking the gate? Are you expecting a riot to come past or something?

Haha yes - it’s my friends driveway and that’s to stop the little fluffy dog escaping into the oncoming traffic. 

[dc2100k]

I also managed to get the bonnet open by pulling the bonnet catch ? As predicted there isn’t much under there but also not too much tin worm so that’s a relief. 

[Supernaut]

41 minutes ago, dc2100k said:

I also managed to get the bonnet open by pulling the bonnet catch ?

That's novel. Just ask @320touring about that green E36 coupe I won off him.

[dc2100k]

6 minutes ago, volvov70 said:

Rust, rust and more rust. CHECK

before you do anything check the hole where the loom goes through the bulkhead behind the fuse box- rust here can mean a world of pain as the bulkhead is triple skinned. Not looked yet but LIKELY

rear axle bushes - invest in the correct tool to replace otherwise it will hurt, the slightest mismatch in angles will piss you off to hell Already been polybushed and fitted but may be removed pending 318TI axle.

diff, genuine e30 diffs  are mega money and last about 10 mins at full drift- take 320 tourings  advice here Going to fit a 318TI diff and box most likely to get up and running, then maybe medium case LSD down the line.

front suspension - yes you can use e36 stuff but the geometry will be wrong I see, I haven't looked closely into this. I may just use the original suspension that is there in that case. Will do more research.

power steering-do not delete, you can bodge an e46 purple tag rack in there to reduce lock to lock but a manual standard e30 rack will just make you cry. I have heard, if you have to go manual, a Lhd Talbot samba rack was a thing but try finding one. Haha is it really that bad? Lots of 318s came from the factory with no PAS? I am planning on properly de-PAS-ing the rack, removing the seals and pump and everything.

Many more things spring to mind but rust rust and rust CHECK

check out appltree’s (I think) Thread on e30zone For hardcore 318is fettling

 

Thanks for the great advice. I will check out appltree's thread tomorrow.

 

[dc2100k]

5 minutes ago, volvov70 said:

Oh sills

Oh sills. They are pretty shot. There’s only one hole per se but plenty of other areas with the brown stuff making an appearance. My first impression was that they both need cut out and replaced but the more I prod the more I think localised repairs might get me through at least one MOT.

Below is what I take it you mean by factory jack point? It is a bit crumpled and the paint is peeling away around it but I don’t think my MOT testers stick would bother it to be honest. I’m intending to take the flap disc to it gently and see if I can take it back to clean metal first. Obviously if I’m left with a big hole then I’ll have to patch it but I think I might be able to build it up with epoxy steel putty and then stonechip it to a reasonable* finish.

Watch this space.

[dc2100k]

I've been acquiring toolshite and trying to do a little proper work this week so no real progress except I have identified that I need to treat my galvanised steel roof plate with a mordant solution before priming it so fitting that will have to wait until I have got some of that.

 

Otherwise I have worked out that the purple brackets are for putting an S38 V8 engine from an M5 into an E30 so no use to me.

[dc2100k]

For those of you who have watched this sort of thing before this is the part where the true horrors reveal themselves and the motor gets stuck on ebay for 99p no reserve.

 

oMFgggg ROOF RUST

 

 

[dc2100k]

5 mins with a wire wheel and I’ve found clean metal. Next step is to work out what to do with the big hole. I’ve drawn a line where my 1.5mm steel sunroof plate is going to fit and there is a decent margin of clean steel to rivet into. The flange and seam on the inside are solid enough, it’s just the flat surface that’s holed.

 

Fortunately the original sliding sunroof panel is in position and looks like it will just crank forward if I can find the right size socket. That makes the whole interior/headlining business a bit easier. 

 

 

[dc2100k]

Ok so all the rust has been cut out of the roof and I’ve treated the bare steel with phosphoric acid. I’ve also gone round and hit most of the other rust spots with the wire brush and I’m pleased to report that most of them are pretty solid, a couple of pinholes but nothing major. These will get metal epoxied then filled and painted and shouldn’t bother me for a few years. There are a couple of areas that definitely need the sparkly stick though... principally the offside rear outer sill is toast along with a little bit of the floor and the inner sill. The nearside is fine however. The other area is the ‘battery box’ behind the offside rear wheel needs a couple of patches, I don’t think this is an mot failure as it’s not a prescribed area but it will need attention.

 

I also tried a bit of paint correction on the offside rear wing and it came up alright. I think I may get away with only painting the bonnet, bootlid and sunroof plate. 

 

 

[320touring]

Hmmm. If it were me I'd consider one of the below...

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174088568479

 

https://www.geoffsteel.co.uk/shop/bmw-e30-carbon-roof/

 

https://bmpconversions.com/product/fibreglass-roof-skin-2dr-4dr-m3/

[dc2100k]

 

3 hours ago, 320touring said:

Hmmm. If it were me I'd consider one of the below...

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174088568479

 

https://www.geoffsteel.co.uk/shop/bmw-e30-carbon-roof/

 

https://bmpconversions.com/product/fibreglass-roof-skin-2dr-4dr-m3/

Some good choices there... I haven’t really broached upon the financial realities of this project yet but unfortunately a £600 carbon roof doesn’t really enter into the equation ? 

However, that fibreglass roof does seem like rather good value. I may contact them to have a look at an installed item. I’d be slightly worried it might not pass scrutineering with a different material roof covering but if the existing metal sunroof panel is in place I’m sure that wouldn’t be an issue. 

[dome]

Or £30 for a big sheet of sticky back carbon wrap like I did to the Civic Type R I had to hide the imperfections

[dc2100k]

2 minutes ago, dome said:

Or £30 for a big sheet of sticky back carbon wrap like I did to the Civic Type R I had to hide the imperfections

Well that’s what I’m thinking with this sheet of 1.5mm steel I’ve got. It’s the right size and it cost a tenner. It’s not going to win any awards but RALLYCARYO! I’m probably just going to paint it black and leave it at that. 

Maybe down the line I could do a fibreglass roof but I suspect (with the way E30 prices are going) after I’ve had my fun with it someone will probably want to restore it, especially as 318IS are so uncommon (only a few hundred still on the road in the UK). 

[320touring]

That's cos they're shite m9

[dome]

9 minutes ago, dc2100k said:

Well that’s what I’m thinking with this sheet of 1.5mm steel I’ve got. It’s the right size and it cost a tenner. It’s not going to win any awards but RALLYCARYO! I’m probably just going to paint it black and leave it at that. 

Maybe down the line I could do a fibreglass roof but I suspect (with the way E30 prices are going) after I’ve had my fun with it someone will probably want to restore it, especially as 318IS are so uncommon (only a few hundred still on the road in the UK). 

Yeah, not much point in spending fortunes on your roof when you might well end up using it as a brake sometime ?

I know a boy in Edinburgh selling a complete E36 compact, dunno if that's any good to you?

[dc2100k]

42 minutes ago, 320touring said:

That's cos they're shite m9

Aye 4 pot nonsense ?

[dc2100k]

35 minutes ago, dome said:

Yeah, not much point in spending fortunes on your roof when you might well end up using it as a brake sometime ?

I know a boy in Edinburgh selling a complete E36 compact, dunno if that's any good to you?

I did see that car and I was tempted for 5 mins as it’s cheap and local but what I need is quite particular, and that’s a 94-95 318ti, or perhaps an E36 318is, for the M42 engine and gearbox/diff combo. I’ve seen a few but they’ve all been autos and I need a manual. 

[dc2100k]

Another two hours hiding from the wife and I got a little bit further with the roof...

 

I managed to wind the solid sunroof panel back into place and fortunately it is pretty good and the headlining seems in decent nick too. Therefore I have elected to try and fix the existing roof skin first and if it turns out rubbish then I will plate with the 1.5mm steel sheet as previously planned. First step was to fabricate some small plates out of 1mm steel, fold them and then steel epoxy them to the underside of the roof skin and the side of the sunroof opening. I have left these to set now and next time I get to the car I will epoxy another piece of 1mm (again with folded supports) right over the whole lot to bring the top of the sheet just shy of the existing roof surface and reduce the amount of filler required. I also filled the other small holes and pitted areas with steel epoxy ready for grinding back, filling and painting.

 

 

[bunglebus]

If you use any of that steel for welding, clean the galvanizing off first, it's nasty stuff.

My mate has had and broken a few E30s and has various bits left. His were all 320s/325s but let me know if you can think of any bits that might be useful and I'll ask. I really like these, such a great driver's car.

[dc2100k]

34 minutes ago, bunglebus said:

 

My mate has had and broken a few E30s and has various bits left. His were all 320s/325s but let me know if you can think of any bits that might be useful and I'll ask. I really like these, such a great driver's car.

That would be great. I need a lots of miscellaneous parts. I hope to get pretty much the entire drivetrain out of a donor car but there are a lot of E30 specific bits I’m after. Off the top of my head:

Interior: drivers door card (2 door black vinyl), rear seats, roll cage & reclining front bucket seats. 

Exterior: rear bumper mounting hardware, rear bumper rubbing strip, windscreen (maybe)

Running Gear: screenwash system. Fuel tank and pump, Brake callipers and front discs, engine, gearbox & diff. 

[DavidB]

On 6/4/2020 at 5:07 PM, 320touring said:

It was a £500 heap but pretty good fun!

The 3.91 would come out of an E30 325i.

If going for an E36 318ti, get the engine box and diff. Also, be aware the m44 is a 1.9 (if that makes any difference for regs).The front struts from an E36 also fit, and give you 5stud, so a wider range of wheels if needed.

The rear end from an E36 318ti will also bolt straight on (it's an E30 rear end with 5stud hubs and disc brakes).

Normal E36 have the Z axle which won't work.

Any E36 diff should fit - but again be careful re ratios.

Essentially, you want to keep the gearboxes and diffs matched. 

An E30 box needs an E30 diff ratio, and an E36 box needs an E36 ratio.

 

Drop me a PM if you have any questions!

Doesn’t the E36 Compact have an E30 rear axle?

I would love an E30 - I think the cheap boat has long since departed though.

[dc2100k]

14 minutes ago, DavidB said:

Doesn’t the E36 Compact have an E30 rear axle?

I would love an E30 - I think the cheap boat has long since departed though.

Yes it does but with 5 stud hubs. I think I’ll probably end up going 5 stud if I can find a suitable 318TI donor, but will stick with the existing 4 stud setup if I find an E36 318is donor or end up buying a drivetrain separately. 

 

The E30 is a lovely chassis but you are right they are no longer an affordable classic. I think the 325is has forged a course for the two door E30s and the 318is is a similar shell but obvs with a smaller engine. 

[Jazoli]

On 6/15/2020 at 2:54 PM, dc2100k said:

Another two hours hiding from the wife and I got a little bit further with the roof...

 

I managed to wind the solid sunroof panel back into place and fortunately it is pretty good and the headlining seems in decent nick too. Therefore I have elected to try and fix the existing roof skin first and if it turns out rubbish then I will plate with the 1.5mm steel sheet as previously planned. First step was to fabricate some small plates out of 1mm steel, fold them and then steel epoxy them to the underside of the roof skin and the side of the sunroof opening. I have left these to set now and next time I get to the car I will epoxy another piece of 1mm (again with folded supports) right over the whole lot to bring the top of the sheet just shy of the existing roof surface and reduce the amount of filler required. I also filled the other small holes and pitted areas with steel epoxy ready for grinding back, filling and painting.

 

 

Errrrrr...... Did you say this was going to be a rally car? And you're using epoxy to sort out the roof? As Dome alluded to in an earlier post it seems like a very bad idea to me as there's every chance you'll end up on it and you can laugh when you are sliding along the road as the epoxy falls out and lands in your lap. 

It should be welded up, properly, we would have been laughed out of scrutineering when we were banger racing never mind rallying. 

[dc2100k]

55 minutes ago, Jazoli said:

Errrrrr...... Did you say this was going to be a rally car? And you're using epoxy to sort out the roof? As Dome alluded to in an earlier post it seems like a very bad idea to me as there's every chance you'll end up on it and you can laugh when you are sliding along the road as the epoxy falls out and lands in your lap. 

It should be welded up, properly, we would have been laughed out of scrutineering when we were banger racing never mind rallying. 

Isn't banger racing a contact sport ?

The type of rallying I'm going to be doing is for production cars and can be done in an E30 cabriolet with no roll over protection if that's your thing! I'm more concerned about the massive sunroof panel next to the roof repair to be honest, I think that would be more likely to fall out in a roll. In any case, I'm still considering plating over the whole thing in 1.5mm steel riveted to the original roof skin, or perhaps the fibreglass roof skin that dome linked to previously.