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Phil's 1977 Princess 1.8 HL


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Good shout, on that topic, anyone got recommendations for how to get the studs out?  On the intact two I can try the two bolts again but there's no thread left on the snapped one - do I need to buy a tap set?  I will presumably need to buy some threaded rod to replace them?

Actually, thinking about it, I have a bolt extractor set so might be able to use that if I have one small enough...

On the plus side, the new speedo cable has arrived and from first impressions it looks like it might even be the right one.

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39 minutes ago, phil_lihp said:

Good shout, on that topic, anyone got recommendations for how to get the studs out?  On the intact two I can try the two bolts again but there's no thread left on the snapped one - do I need to buy a tap set?  I will presumably need to buy some threaded rod to replace them?

Actually, thinking about it, I have a bolt extractor set so might be able to use that if I have one small enough...

On the plus side, the new speedo cable has arrived and from first impressions it looks like it might even be the right one.

 

Heat. Penetrating oil (PlusGas). More heat.

Two nuts(not bolts) tightened against each other on the studs with threads. Mole grips on the broken one. Wiggle back and forth. More heat. More penetrating fluid.

They will come loose.

Don't replace with threaded bar. Get the proper studs.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, phil_lihp said:

anyone got recommendations for how to get the studs out?

You only need to get the broken one out, that is quite enough trouble.  The others can be used again.  You can buy a replacement stud from someone like Moss or Rimmers, they are standardised.   The thread is different each end, UNC and UNF, so threaded rod isn't an easy substitute.

Use a stud extractor to grIp the stud, or you may get away with a Mole wrench applied horizontally, if that makes sense  The danger is that the stud will shear at the base, so turn it very cautiously and just try and shift it a fraction of a turn to start with.   It is likely to be tight, probably rusted in.    

First though, apply heat to the area of the head around the base of the stud with a blowtorch - try and localise the heat, but get it as hot as you can, allow to cool, then repeat a couple of times.  Oxy is actually better for localising the heat, but you probably won't have access to it.  The idea is to get some differential expansion going between the head and the stud to loosen it.  Then see if it will turn, if not, repeat heating, etc, there is no hurry.   If it shears off - ask what to do next.

That said, I am a professional, that is what I would do, but an enthusiast would probably know better.  😬

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If you've got heating gear heat all three red and then quench with water a few times to thermally cycle the joint, then two nuts jammed on the good studs and a stilson on the burst one, or weld a nut on it if you have a welder. An impact driver may also help but use with caution. As the others have said new studs should be available off the shelf.

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5 hours ago, somewhatfoolish said:

If you've got heating gear heat all three red and then quench with water a few times to thermally cycle the joint,

I'm not sure I would do that.  There's a good chance you'll destroy any strength these had and possibly make them as brittle as glass.  A bit of heat is one thing, but red hot might be a bit too much.

17 hours ago, phil_lihp said:

anyone got recommendations for how to get the studs out?  On the intact two I can try the two bolts again but there's no thread left on the snapped one

One of these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stud-Bolt-Extractor-Remover-8-19mm-Studs-Loosening-Tightening-1-2-Drive-Tool/303849827021?hash=item46bedc6acd:g:R4gAAOSw1V9gAuBm

Or, if you're feeing a bit posh, a set of these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stud-extractor-set/164652007714?hash=item2656064122:g:KqgAAOSwf3ZgBXU1

Will be far more effective than anything else.  I have a set of the second link extractors, and they are superb.  They use a set of bearing rollers that roll into the stud and grip it astonishingly hard.  So much so that they can crush threads flat if you try too hard.

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In my mission to give up snapping things I have been using a plumbers heat shield and a waft of a gas torch or more recently a electric heat gun.
It has a couple of settings that greatly reduce the chances of heating stuff you dont want ho,t or calling 999 in a hurry.

https://media.screwfix.com/is/image//ae235?src=ae235/45563_P&$prodImageMedium$

Plus one for the second link above, I have the Clarke version of the stud extractor set and it has worked every time.

 

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1 hour ago, Talbot said:

I'm not sure I would do that.  There's a good chance you'll destroy any strength these had and possibly make them as brittle as glass.  A bit of heat is one thing, but red hot might be a bit too much.

Meh, maybe first try removing without heat, then bring out the big guns. Red heat on high tensile steel is at most going to draw the temper which will make them a bit softer, unless phil-lihp is immersing the whole car he can't quench fast enough to harden. If it's a concern then let them cool without quenching. Physics says the head should be heated but unless you have a blowtorch with the power of a thousand suns you can't get enough energy into the head to make much difference. As I said before they're into cast iron and should not put up that much of a fight; the shearing was most likely due to alloy:steel corrosion locking the housings onto the stud.

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Some progress has been made...this is the closest I could get, it's meant for a 1.3 Marina apparently.

20210123_124432.thumb.jpg.b1bacdae7f08a0941494d3f3d547d7e1.jpg

The observant amoung you will note that, owing to the outlet being at a slightly different angle, the top hose no longer reaches so I will have to hunt around for something as a suitable replacement.  I bought a length of generic hose a while back and this is plenty long enough but just kinks in the middle instead of curving so still scratching my head on that.  Still looking for a replacement stud, too. 

What did go better than expected was the speedo cable - the new Borg & Beck one is a perfect fit, the old one unscrewed from the gearbox easily and I had no issues unclipping the remains of it from the back of the speedo just by reaching up behind the dash.  The new one took about 2 minutes to fit - the hardest part was feeding it though the back of the dash correctly.  No need to disturb the delicate dash structure, fortunately.  Can't test it yet with the stat housing not installed but I've no reason to think it won't work fine.

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7 minutes ago, phil_lihp said:

Thanks but those don't have the fill port on top, the one I've got does and it's the only way to fill up the system properly.  Just need to get a slightly longer hose.

Would a flexible hose like the ones here:
https://www.thehosemaster.co.uk/hose-ducting/radiator-hose

Specifically this one,

Be of help to you?

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These might be the studs you're after: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMC-B-Series-Stainless-Steel-Thermostat-Housing-Studs-Washers-Nuts-3/264855154869

The MG B version of that housing might work?  It looks like you could rotate it around and then chop off that sticky out bit if it was in the way of the rocker cover, still gives you the fill port in the top and puts the outlet angled towards the radiator.   https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thermostat-Housing-Gasket-GTG101-for-MGB-MGBGT-Leyland-part-CAM1577/192096093599

s-l1600.thumb.jpg.3f29c5c922ac2c8edc4aa2485578878d.jpg

Where's @Asimo with a part number when you need him?

 

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Yeah, I don't think I'll be a Youtube star any time soon...I assumed he's be chopping it about and would show a few seconds of it, not run the whole thing unedited!  Still, it was a bit of fun, did highlight how hard it must be to do this stuff properly, that was one of about 6 attempts at it.

Incidentally, this happened at the weekend.

20210206_130432.thumb.jpg.3a44990d6931de8480affa7d487df048.jpg

20210206_130436.thumb.jpg.cff3ffe515b4a80fb27e45afa429e013.jpg

New flexible top hose, new stat housing, new studs.  Refilled and back in operation.

Sort of.

The housing is meant for a Marina 1.3 apparently, so while it is the closest to the original I have found, the outlet pipe is too small.  I cunningly fixed* this by wrapping the outlet in insulation tape - this has actually worked and formed a watertight seal but it is hardly ideal.  It will do until I can find the correct housing.

The second issue was indeed fortold.

On 1/20/2021 at 9:54 PM, Mr Pastry said:

You only need to get the broken one out, that is quite enough trouble. 

The man speaks truth.  I decided that, as the threads were somewhat ropey on the other two studs, I'd replace them if they'd come out without a fight.  One came out with no issues at all, the other one appeared to rotate quite easily and then snapped off flush with the base.  Sigh.

I drilled it out - fortunately it's hollow underneath, meaning the ends of the studs sit in coolant, but it did mean I could clear out the hole reasonably easily and by packing out the inlet with cloths, didn't fill the cooling system with metal swarf.  Unfortunately the threads are butchered, so while the new stud did screw in, it wouldn't grip.  I then discovered that 3 of the 5 pack of nuts I'd ordered were defective and when screwed onto the new stud, mullered the thread and got stuck.  Sigh again.

In the end I re-used the one intact stud and sealed the housing with some red instant gasket, carefully cleaned off the inside of the housing so it didn't end up in the coolant, as I didn't have a proper gasket to re-use.  This sort of worked but it does produce a steady small dribble of coolant onto the head from the dodgy stud thread, causing much steam.

So, in conclusion, I need to:

*  Fit the correct stat housing - I've ordered the MGB one as suggested by @vulgalour above to see if it's a better fit
*  Helicoil the butchered stat housing thread and reinstate a new stud and bolt

I also now really need to sort the clutch master cylinder out, as a very short test drive for the first time in weeks showed that the gearchange has gone from mildly recalcitrant to downright dreadful with the clutch not really doing a lot until the pedal's mashed into the carpet.  Problem with that being, the bolts holding the master cylinder on to the gearbox are fossilised, so using a ring spanner just chews them up and they're too close to the body of the cylinder to get a socket on them.  

The stat housing repair was done in a bit of haste between rain showers to cobble it back into a working car as I need to keep it mobile due to an impending house move, so I'm hoping for some decent weather and a bit of good luck in the next couple of weeks to sort these issues out properly.  

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On 2/9/2021 at 3:48 PM, phil_lihp said:

while it is the closest to the original I have found, the outlet pipe is too small.  I cunningly fixed* this by wrapping the outlet in insulation tape - this has actually worked and formed a watertight seal but it is hardly ideal.  It will do until I can find the correct housing.

If you can't find the right one you have several options beyond what you've done with electrical tape; in order of preference:

1. get a connector pipe and a short reducing adaptor hose to match the new housing.IMG_9856.jpg

2. get a short length of the right size hose for the new housing and if you're lucky the bigger hose will fit over it and clamp on and seal.

3. repeat the tape trick but with self-amalgamating tape which is much more durable and as it's rubber is almost a proper repair rather than a bodge. Almost.

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