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1977 Princess 1.8 HL


phil_lihp

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Has anyone ever converted one to air ?  I don’t know if it’s even possible, but every other Golf,BMW etc show car is on airbags these days , so can’t be that hard. Saying that I don’t know if they still use the original springs or shocks, presumably not because when you covert Discos to springs it’s simply a case of throwing out the airbags and bolting on coils. 
Glad I cleared that up !

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Air-bag type springs aren't really suitable because they are basically  long-travel and soft whereas Hydragas units are very stiff and short travel. They are levered with a ratio (I forget, but something like 5 to 1) so "see" a much higher load than conventional springs in most suspension designs see. (But not all - see  C15 van / Peugeot 305 Estate for a levered coil spring)  Consequently The Hydragas units are very compact, removing them would leave no space for Air bags.

Hydragas units also include the damper (except MGF and maybe Metro?)

Conversion to Citroen Hydropneumatics however should be possible...

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Not sure about the Princess suspension but the ratios are probably similar to the BL Mini, which if IIRC are 3:1 at the front and 5:1 at the rear.
I only remember this because on Minis you could lower the suspension by cutting down the aluminium trumpets. Cutting off half an inch would lower them by one and a half inches at the front but by two and half inches at the rear.
 

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As @Asimo points out, doing anything with the suspension is a nuisance on these.  The best bet currently is to regas and hope.  The Citroen hydraulics route is one I've considered, I just lack the ability and experience to do it, and the funds to get someone else to do it.  As good as a well sorted Hydragas system is, the Citroen one is just better and easier to fix if it does go wrong since parts support is so much better.

Still, @phil_lihp is doing great work on this one as is, looks like he got a good one despite appearances.

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Well there goes the surprise!  Can't hide anything from you lot.   @RobT and @ETCHY are bang on the money.

Yes, as per @Mr_Bo11ox's suggestion on page 1, Ian Kennedy is going to be sorting the suspension out, it's beyond the help of a hydragas pump as there's no gas left so stuffing the displacers full of fluid will only restore the ride height, it won't make it ride properly and I've been told that doing that or leaving them empty will ruin the displacers if I keep driving it.  It's going to cost a bomb but I think it's worth doing.

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21 hours ago, egg said:

This has been a brilliant resurrection fred, and really, relatively smooth so far given the context of the machine and its history. 

Just thinking of the context of BL in 1977...

https://www.aronline.co.uk/history/british-leyland-the-grand-illusion/history-british-leyland-grand-illusion-part-four/

This car has the feeling that it wants to live, everything has been straightforward barring a few issues with parts fitment, it really has been surprisingly cheap* and easy so far.

I will have a read of that article, I find the industrial/social issues that plagued the BL era quite fascinating.   Makes it all the more remarkable that this car and others of similar age managed to survive, given that generally speaking they were all compromised designs assembled by a disgruntled workforce in the midst of industry turmoil by a company that was barely hanging on financially.

*that's just gone out of the window

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just read this from start to finish, great thread Phil!  your description of the running issues reminded me of my own issues on my crossflow powered ranger - i had timed it by (mostly deaf it seems) ear, as my timing light gave up the ghost. at slow speeds it was fine, but any real application of the loud pedal resulted in the symptoms you described.  turns out it was set to 30 degrees of advance, instead of 10! god knows how it ran like that!?

keep up the good work dude!

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@groovylee cheers!  It's no silver Octavia but it'll do.

I decided not to tinker with the timing/carb settings as I have no real idea what I'm doing and knew full well it'd end up with my mechanic anyway who'd have to undo my fiddling to get it right - I'd much rather have it 'right' to start with and I at least have a baseline to work with.  There were so many little factors contributing to the running issues there is no way I'd have been able to sort it properly.

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Old trader tip on really tidying up a car. Clean the glass! My 83 Landcruiser is rusty but when I bought it off the farm and removed 20 years of muck from the interior I also used some professional industrial glass cleaner inside and out. Wow what a diffence to the 'look' and the glass was so clear it looked like the windows were out even. But made it so much nicer to use too. Can't remember the brand - it was an old used can I got at a bootsale for extra minge-baggery - but some may suggest here.

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Cheers!

Good tip about the glass, I am gradually making it slightly more presentable - it's not back from my mechanic yet as he's still got the little welding patch to do, shame as I wanted to have a little drive to see how it goes now it's correctly tuned but I don't want to rush him (well, I do, but when I dropped it off I said "no rush, whenever you get time").  I've got some Autoglym Fast Glass which I like (smells nice too) and some glass polish if I get really carried away.  Frankly I often find that wiping down the windows after polishing the car (not the windscreen!) with the residual polish on the cloth usually does a nice job too.

Anyone got any good tipoffs on paint?  I want to get an aerosol or two made up but can't find anything suitable on eBay, doesn't have to be a perfect match obviously but would like it to at least be a close approximation for a few little patchups.

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I have used model paint for touch-in on my Citroens. Humbrol does a big range and there are some ok matches. They might do the right brown or you could mix something. My model shop 4D does plastic syringes to measure paint out as well. Trial and error. The Humbrol is cheap.

https://modelshop.co.uk/

Spraying small areas you could go the same route with a model spray gun and cutting -but I have not tried that (yet).

A specialist paint business could mix something I am sure - I prefer the bodgery route as it seems to work nearly as well!

Amazing the difference just touching in a few chips makes.

A lovely thing to do looking after this old car - great thread. 

I had one 25 years ago...was a 6 cylinder auto (they were all autos as I think the strikes caused gearbox supply problems I think.) Mine was a light brown.

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1 hour ago, phil_lihp said:

Anyone got any good tipoffs on paint?  I want to get an aerosol or two made up but can't find anything suitable on eBay, doesn't have to be a perfect match obviously but would like it to at least be a close approximation for a few little patchups.

https://www.paints4u.com
 

They can do off the shelf colours in aerosol or tins, or they can custom mix paint and supply it in the same. I was having trouble getting paint for my Mercury, the colour isn’t easy to get over here and it’s got nearly 50 years of fading too, so I sent them a little sample and they mixed me a tester pot. Once I was happy they did me a little tin for touch ups and a couple of aerosol’s. 
There’s all sorts of body and painting stuff on their site too.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just got the car back from its tuning and welding session.  And the verdict?  Huge transformation - it drives almost perfectly!  The engine is very smooth and has plenty of power, more than I expected to be honest, it powered up a relatively steep hill in 3rd gear and no longer gets hot at all, the gauge sits nicely in the middle.  It easily got up to 60mph on a straight NSL bit of road, I'm amazed.  It's like a totally different car.  I'm now absolutely positive that getting the suspension properly sorted is worth every penny and I cannot wait for that to happen (17th August I think) so I can drive it properly.  I would currently describe it as 'bumpy' and it won't be doing it any good driving it much like that, so I will try to avoid using it too much until then.  

On top of that, his welding on the passenger floor looks superb, all it needs now is a bit of brown paint to blend it in which is fortunate as I now have some!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Part of @vulgalour's Princess care package included an Austin Ambassador wheel as mine is missing its spare.  It's slightly wider than a Princess wheel but fits and will be fine to live in the boot.  Before I get a tyre fitted it definitely needs a tidy up though.

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I attacked it with a wire wheel drill attachment to get the flaky bits off and rummaged through my garage for some high quality* paint products.  I selected a moderately fresh can of grey stonechip and a mostly empty can of satin black which I'm pretty sure was at least 16 years old - perfect.

Stonechip first to seal the surface...

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Then what was left of the satin black on the front and back, fortunately I had exactly enough left to do this plus touch up the cast iron drainpipe on my house.

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Once the suspension is sorted in 10 days' time I'll get my local tyre place to adjust the tracking and while it's there they can put one of the mismatched but new front tyres on this for the spare and put another new one on the front so they match.

Other than that, it's had a few short runs and performed perfectly, despite riding and handling appallingly, I cannot wait for that to be addressed so I can use it properly.  

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A few little jobs done today.  First of all, I pulled out the completely destroyed parcel shelf a few weeks back and kept hold of the rotten mess only as a template - I dug it out of the garage today along with an old bit of carpet and after some quality hacking with some inappropriate scissors, I produced this.

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It isn't good, but it's better than the tattered vinyl flakes stuck to mouldy chipboard and better than the bare metal shelf.  It'll do for now.

I cleared out the boot, which has since May been used as a large storage bin for any and all random tat that's remotely related to the car.  Some of the items removed included the towbar which was originally on the car until last year - I will probably give this a lick of paint and reattach it.

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In a large plastic bag was the original jack and wheelbrace.  The jack does not look safe, I will have to try it out.  That's now properly stowed in its proper compartment in the boot floor.

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The boot floor is overall 97% solid, there's one scruffy welded plate in the storage area beneath the floor and some holes in the rear valance and light surround but nothing major.

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Then to cap it off, a much-needed wash.  As ever, photos of it wet are much more flattering.

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The eagle-eyed among you might notice there's a couple of chrome wheelarch trims missing.  I gently* removed them as they were both hanging off anyway and the front passenger one was crammed with leaf mould which wasn't doing the metalwork any favours.  Both have served as a bit of a rust trap but it's not too bad, the front bare arch is quite solid and should come up fine with a rub down and some paint, the driver's rear one not so much, it's had work on the front corner before and the rear corner is mostly not there.  

I actually think it might look better without them - they certainly aren't doing it any favours at the moment as they're all loose/wonky in some way and trapping dirt and rust so I will remove all of them for the purpose of cleaning up the arches but not sure if they will go back on or not.  I'm not planning to put any of the stainless trim back on around the C pillars and boot, it's all extra fussy details which don't benefit the car at all but they will all stay in the boot with the car.

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It's not bad really for 30 years of neglect - having just caught up on @captain_70s Dolomite repairs, this seems very insignificant.  Not sure what I will do about it yet, I'll pay more attention to the bodywork when the mechanicals are near enough 100% which shouldn't be too long now.

To cap it off, I think both plates are original, the front one is quite mashed up and I will probably replace it if I can find somewhere that makes accurate reproductions but the back one's decent enough, it was previously attached to the tow bar and I noticed today that it's got the supplying dealer name on it - not sure if G Kingsbury & Son of Hampton sold it new in 1977 or used in 1979 to the chap who then owned it right through until last year.  I'm pleased to see that they're still trading!  

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One week and counting until the big suspension event.

 

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