The Doctor's travels through time. Fin.

[somewhatfoolish]

A kilo of G3; are you opening a shite body shop? 🤪

1 hour ago, DoctorRetro said:

Didn't have anything in the house other than this...

 

 

 

[DoctorRetro]

11 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

A kilo of G3; are you opening a shite body shop? 🤪

 

I've had it years, I think I ordered it online and wasn't expecting it to be so huge

#thatswhatshesaid

[DoctorRetro]

You are now...

Tempted to go for black/grey bumpers.

Also done the alternator belt, HT leads, gearbox linkage and spark plugs. Did the throttle potentiometer the other day.

Still runs exactly the same, which I'm starting to believe is just that the 954cc Bosh ECU and injection being confused at the 1124cc lump.

I did notice a bit of air gets in where the air filter housing meets the throttle body, when spraying carb cleaner around. Could that contribute? 🤔

 

[AxWomble]

4 minutes ago, DoctorRetro said:

You are now...

Tempted to go for black/grey bumpers.

Also done the alternator belt, HT leads, gearbox linkage and spark plugs. Did the throttle potentiometer the other day.

Still runs exactly the same, which I'm starting to believe is just that the 954cc Bosh ECU and injection being confused at the 1124cc lump.

I did notice a bit of air gets in where the air filter housing meets the throttle body, when spraying carb cleaner around. Could that contribute? 🤔

 

I've just remembered that the top section (with lots of lines on top) is slightly broken by the PO to me, it's missing some of the joint on the right hand side I think. Shame about the poor running - we did 500 miles plus with no issues (it ran rather better than before if anything)  but maybe some component has reached the end of its ability to compensate now? Shocked that I took the advice of a Facebook group on the engine swap and it turned out to be wrong 😬😂😂

[wuvvum]

26 minutes ago, DoctorRetro said:

I did notice a bit of air gets in where the air filter housing meets the throttle body, when spraying carb cleaner around. Could that contribute? 🤔

 

If it's getting in after the MAF sensor then quite possibly - it'll be screwing up the air / fuel ratio calculations.

[AxWomble]

1 minute ago, wuvvum said:

If it's getting in after the MAF sensor then quite possibly - it'll be screwing up the air / fuel ratio calculations.

I might be forgetting but I'm not sure it has a MAF sensor. Happy to be proven wrong, my brain is all full of TUD dieselly bits and pieces now! 

[wuvvum]

I thought all EFI engines had some kind of airflow metering so the injectors know how much fuel to squirt.  I might also be wrong though obvs.

[AxWomble]

12 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

I thought all EFI engines had some kind of airflow metering so the injectors know how much fuel to squirt.  I might also be wrong though obvs.

I'd have to look at the HBOL to be sure (or not, as the case may be) but I don't remember there being any sensor downwind of the air filter or between air filter and throttle body. I think it depends entirely on throttle position and some witchcraft which occurs in the throttle body. 

[Dave_Q]

I'd have to look at the HBOL to be sure (or not, as the case may be) but I don't remember there being any sensor downwind of the air filter or between air filter and throttle body. I think it depends entirely on throttle position and some witchcraft which occurs in the throttle body. 

It would have to have either a flow or pressure sensor to work out how much to inject.

If it is a MAP sensor then it's less likely to be able to adapt to a bigger engine as with MAP only it's taking the pressure plus the hard-coded volume of air per rev to work out the injection quantity.

I would expect a MAP sensor to be in the manifold somewhere rather than the throttle body.

[DoctorRetro]

1 hour ago, wuvvum said:

I thought all EFI engines had some kind of airflow metering so the injectors know how much fuel to squirt.  I might also be wrong though obvs.

It all seems to be internal in the throttle body on this system.

It's all very complicated as petrol AXs had several different ECU and injection systems depending on engine size 

The 954 and 1360 had a Bosch monopoint MA3.0, but the earlier 1360 and all the 1124 had the Bosch A2.2.

And then some had a Magneti Marelli system!

 

 

[DoctorRetro]

12 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

It would have to have either a flow or pressure sensor to work out how much to inject.

If it is a MAP sensor then it's less likely to be able to adapt to a bigger engine as with MAP only it's taking the pressure plus the hard-coded volume of air per rev to work out the injection quantity.

I would expect a MAP sensor to be in the manifold somewhere rather than the throttle body.

I think the MAP on the Bosch system is integral to the ECU, and that's why there's an air pipe with a valve that goes from the throttle body to the ECU 

[AxWomble]

1 hour ago, DoctorRetro said:

It all seems to be internal in the throttle body on this system.

It's all very complicated as petrol AXs had several different ECU and injection systems depending on engine size 

The 954 and 1360 had a Bosch monopoint MA3.0, but the earlier 1360 and all the 1124 had the Bosch A2.2.

And then some had a Magneti Marelli system!

 

 

This is MA3.0 isn't it? Can't believe that I should have consulted Haynes above everything else...muppet!

 

All this being said, a 1.1 ECU and throttle body/loom can't be too much from a scrappy? They don't seem to go wrong (if they're in the correct application, ahem) so you'd be fairly certain to find a good one off a scrap car. Failing that maybe you could join an FB group and get the gubbins off someone who has crammed a 1.6 into their Nan's Saxo and has a spare engine in their shed? The 'loom' such as it is, is not very complicated to install either, just wraps around the back of the engine. Inlet manifold off (which you'd probably do anyway if you're changing the throttle body) and you've got plenty of access. 

[AxWomble]

I've just thought, actually, this is a non-immobilised car so doesn't have sensor ring etc, so it'd have to be a non-immobilised ECU or one that someone has unlocked 

[DoctorRetro]

Ready for trip to Telford for Wales Comic Con.

Staying in Cannock Premier Inn - the decadence! 🤣

 

[lesapandre]

Car looks very nice. Have fun!

[DoctorRetro]

I think I'm a bit harsh on this car, it does amazing for a 26 year old French supermini held together with cable ties, mole grips and thoughts and prayers 😂

160 miles , via M25, M1 and M6 on a Friday evening. Here all safe and sound and spent most of the journey in lanes 3 and 4.

Pictured here at Northampton services.

 

[DoctorRetro]

Still battling with the slight hesitation, so I decided to try to restore everything about the air flow back to stock (I did have an aftermarket filter on, and there was always a vacuum port blanked off). Also almost every join leaked. Replaced everything as per the manual.

It seems to have improved things a little, but there's still a hiss/suck noise from somewhere. 

Also apologies, the service history is no longer in place, it was annoying me. I've added it to a page I stuck in the Haynes manual.

Also, can anyone identify this part? 

 

[AxWomble]

If you mean the white piece with a vacuum tube on it, I think that’s the advance mechanism going to the ECU. Sorry if you are trying to get a name for it, I’m not sure   It probably won’t make a difference but I had a friend whose 106 drove poorly and the vacuum tubes (blue ones that you have here) entering the air system above the air filter housing were reversed. Again, I don’t think that’ll make a difference so apologies! 
 

Also, I’ve grown up a lot with our current 106 and I’m recording all the servicing in a book, how mature! 

[Fumbler]

That hiss will probably be the intake manifold connection from the crankcase breather:

The little T piece which that hose (and the blue one you also have) connects to has a teeny tiny hole in it which will make a whistling, hissing noise depending on if the engine is being revved or at idle. I blanked it off on my engine to no negative effect. Keep the big pipe from the cam cover connected as that's the actual vent.

[DoctorRetro]

1 hour ago, AxWomble said:

vacuum tubes ... were reversed

I've checked the photo in the Haynes manual, to see how they go.

1 hour ago, Fumbler said:

The little T piece which that hose (and the blue one you also have) connects to has a teeny tiny hole in it which will make a whistling

Hmm, the tube on this was blanked with a screw when I got the car, but I didn't notice a hole. Will have a look

[Fumbler]

1 minute ago, DoctorRetro said:

I've checked the photo in the Haynes manual, to see how they go.

Hmm, the tube on this was blanked with a screw when I got the car, but I didn't notice a hole. Will have a look

This is an old photo, but I cut my old intake housing up to see what's going on inside. Basically, you have this T piece next to the main hose from the cam cover. The little T part goes to your vacuum controlled air mixer (which you have and it's using blue pipes). The large part of the T has a hose which connects to a nipple on the intake manifold, directly below where the TBI bolts onto the manifold. Inside the T piece is a pretty big air restriction (the internal diameter is restricted to the size of a pinhole) which is where your whistling comes from. If you can, pinch the pipe shit while the car is idling and see if the noise goes away. It did for me and I deleted it as I have a manual air mixer. As you do, you can pull the T piece off, and blank the end that fitted in the intake housing.

[DoctorRetro]

1 hour ago, Fumbler said:

you can pull the T piece off, and blank the end that fitted in the intake housing

See, I did that, because I had a K&N thingy on, but it was hesitant and running like crap. I'd removed the entire t piece and blanked off. 

It's running better with everything back in place.

[Fumbler]

Just now, DoctorRetro said:

See, I did that, because I had a K&N thingy on, but it was hesitant and running like crap. I'd removed the entire t piece and blanked off. 

It's running better with everything back in place.

Yeah it'll run rich with it blanked off as with it open, it needs more fuel to run properly. I'm surprised the ECU doesn't correct itself and lean out the mixture.

[DoctorRetro]

10 minutes ago, Fumbler said:

Yeah it'll run rich with it blanked off as with it open, it needs more fuel to run properly. I'm surprised the ECU doesn't correct itself and lean out the mixture.

I think it is trying to, but that coupled with the 99 octane fuel and the 1124cc instead of 954cc was too much for it to handle. Maybe 😂

[DoctorRetro]

So, to update.

The Peugeot 309 is gone.

The AX is being collected next week.

Suzuki Swift has arrived to carry out winter transport duties until February. 

[Dick Longbridge]

Have you encouraged  the new owner of the Purgeot to join the beige pages? It would be good to see future updates after all the work you've done.

[DoctorRetro]

Spent all morning deep cleaning 🙂

 

[DoctorRetro]

Went out to pick something up and grab some naughty lunch. Saw this expert parking job.

And then undid my hard work...

 

The stereo summed it up...

 

[hairnet]

you were all excited over the purchase of vehicle

 

[Macscrooge]

Having once had a pint bottle of full fat milk keel over in a car footwell, I feel your pain. 😬

it was a company car and when it’s time was up a couple of months later my neighbour wanted to buy it.  However, one of the managers pulled rank and bought it for his wife. Served him right.