Merc thread

[kirton]

Pottery kilns heat to over 1000, you just need to find a hobby potter with a fridge. 

[Talbot]

2 minutes ago, kirton said:

Pottery kilns heat to over 1000

Why would you need that?  If you heat to more than the 220-250c that is required, you'll lose most of the heat-treatment hardness in the teeth.  a few starts of the engine later and there will be not a lot left of the teeth.  A domestic oven is more than enough.

[Mr Pastry]

@wuvvumIt seems to me that this is an engine out job.  Overall that will be quicker and safer than gearbox out if you are working on your own, especially getting the box back in. 

Is is worth getting another flywheel and putting the new ring gear on that ready to swap over?

If you plan carefully and get everything unbolted beforehand, the crane only needs to visible to your lovely neighbours for a minimum time while you are actually lifting the engine, and realistically what can they do?  They probably hate you anyway just for being there with an old car.   IMO you will get 100 percent more hassle from neighbours, police,  council, and casual passers by if you try and do it in the road, so don't even think about that. 

 

[kirton]

I wasn't suggesting trying to melt the ring gear just noting a fairly common piece of kit that  should easily fit it in and will heat to more than a cooker might, ours only goes to 220.  Kilns generally have quite sophisticated controllers with heating and cooling ramps and fine control of temperature.  I would offer doing it in my wife's kiln but we are rather a long way from Wuvvum, a pity he didn't need it done last year when it could have been an SF19 side show

[BeEP]

@wuvvum - depending on your level of motivation to get this done, you'd be welcome to do bring the Merc here and do it using my crane (and out of sight of prying eyes) over a couple of days if necessary.  Obviously I'll lend you a hand (so maybe better when social distancing is no longer a thing!) but as a disclaimer I've not removed a longitudinal engine/box before so I take no responsibility for any stupidity I may bring to the job.

Edited to add - in case this seems like a daft suggestion as the whole problem is it won't start so how will it get here, Wuv knows how ?

[Tadhg Tiogar]

7 hours ago, wuvvum said:

The ring gear arrived on Saturday morning, having ordered it from Germany on Wednesday night.  Parcels from the UK don't ever get here that quick...  DHL left it with next door as I was away....

I had some modelling bits that took four weeks to arrive from Germany, thanks to DHL-Deutsche Post

[wuvvum]

3 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

@wuvvumIt seems to me that this is an engine out job.  Overall that will be quicker and safer than gearbox out if you are working on your own, especially getting the box back in. 

Is is worth getting another flywheel and putting the new ring gear on that ready to swap over?

If you plan carefully and get everything unbolted beforehand, the crane only needs to visible to your lovely neighbours for a minimum time while you are actually lifting the engine, and realistically what can they do?  They probably hate you anyway just for being there with an old car.   IMO you will get 100 percent more hassle from neighbours, police,  council, and casual passers by if you try and do it in the road, so don't even think about that.

Yep, I'd reached the conclusion that engine out will be easier than gearbox out, unless somebody gives me a 2-post lift for my birthday.  Good point re doing it on the drive vs doing it on the road - another issue though is the lack of space on my drive, which isn't very long - to get an engine crane in front of the car with enough room to lift the engine out, the boot would need to be sticking out onto the pavement.  @BeEP's kind offer would get around this issue though.  I've had a read through the DVD workshop manual I bought and getting the engine out doesn't seem too onerous of a job, at least not compared to a modern - the only thing that worries me a bit is getting the fuel system up and running again after refitting, I have no idea what state the priming plunger on the fuel pump is in, but they don't have the best reputation for working properly at nearly 50 years of age.

There is actually a second-hand complete flywheel (with decent ring gear) on eBay for about £135, and I did contemplate buying that and replacing the whole thing.  However my thinking is (and this may be delusional) that if I get the engine out I might be able to get away without removing the clutch assembly from the flywheel, if I can chisel or otherwise cut the existing ring gear off and then heat up the new ring gear and slip it on with the flywheel still attached to the engine.

[Mr Pastry]

32 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

 However my thinking is (and this may be delusional) that if I get the engine out I might be able to get away without removing the clutch assembly from the flywheel, if I can chisel or otherwise cut the existing ring gear off and then heat up the new ring gear and slip it on with the flywheel still attached to the engine.

You will need the flywheel flat on the floor, or on the bench.  The ring gear will not stay at the correct temp for very long, and you need to be able to pop it over the flywheel  PDQ and possibly tap it down all round to get it to seat - it will only expand just enough to go on, and it will start cooling as soon as it touches the flywheel.  No chance of doing that with the flywheel on the engine, I'm afraid..   

I think it's technically illegal to repair your car in the road unless it's a breakdown (obstruction perhaps?) but I very much doubt whether your lease prevents you working on it in the driveway.

[BeEP]

I know nothing about these; is the flywheel particularly difficult to remove?  If you do bring it here I'm sure the local garage would swap the ring gear over for a modest fee if presented with old and new.  Or you can use my oven.  Or just take both away and bring the flywheel back with the new ring gear fitted.

[wuvvum]

25 minutes ago, BeEP said:

I know nothing about these; is the flywheel particularly difficult to remove?  

Not especially, no* - it's just that if the clutch is removed that's one more thing to try and line up when putting everything back together again...

 

*in theory at least - given that the bolts have presumably been in situ for nearly 50 years they might take some persuading to come out.

[Talbot]

37 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

ou will need the flywheel flat on the floor, or on the bench.  The ring gear will not stay at the correct temp for very long, and you need to be able to pop it over the flywheel  PDQ and possibly tap it down all round to get it to seat - it will only expand just enough to go on, and it will start cooling as soon as it touches the flywheel.  No chance of doing that with the flywheel on the engine, I'm afraid..   

 

This.

Once the engine is out, removing the clutch and flywheel is easy enough, and you can also then inspect the rear crank seal and change it if needed.  The ring change is fairly straightforward:

Twat a chisel into the old ring-gear, break that off.  Clean up the mating face.  Ring in the oven at 250c.  Flywheel in the fridge (Not the freezer, you don't want it to go brittle)  Flywheel on the bench.  Ring out of the oven and then INSTANTLY onto the flywheel.  Be ready with hammers to tap it home.   Once home, let it cool naturally.  Job done.

Then you'll find the clutch is badly worn and needs changing anyway....

[Talbot]

42 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

I think it's technically illegal to repair your car in the road unless it's a breakdown (obstruction perhaps?)

Any vehicle on the road must be in a roadworthy condition.  If one morning you come out to find it won't start, or that a tyre is flat then you can fix it there and then, but intentionally doing anything more than that at the roadside is, as you say, technically illegal.

Says me, who's done at least two head gaskets on the side of the road now.

[lanciamatt]

Unless neighbours are complete twats all should be OK. We changed my mates engine on his polo gt on street, no one battered an eyelid, and I do all sorts out side house. If it's taxed not much anyone can do. 

[Mr Pastry]

It does depend on the location.  Back in the day I changed 2 engines in the road when I felt I had no choice (Transit V4 and Bedford CF BTW) but each time I was able to choose an out of the way spot where I wouldn't be bothered, but things are a bit different now.

More of a problem than twat neighbours tends to be the old giffer, or worse still the "mechanic", who appears from nowhere and strolls over for a chat and holds you up for hours, and you have to be nice to them.