Concerto: Conclusion?

[bigfella2]

Just walk away from it for a few days, and come back to it with fresh eyes and some enthusiasm.

[strangeangel]

5 hours ago, Ghosty said:

Coolant system is pressurising. 

Oil cap keeps getting mayo on it. 

The heater runs cold on full blast, and the engine fan comes on too soon. 

 

 

If you'd read me that list of symptoms outside the context of this thread I'd expertly* diagnose* that you had HGF. The head did look pretty corroded... I'm wondering if maybe the mating surfaces were worse affected than you thought?

 

And what bigfella2 said.

 

[Isaac Hunt]

That head gasket you took off did look a bit of an epic fail.  Suppose it depends on how hot it got when the gasket failed before you got it.  Could be a cracked head.   

Do these have an oil cooler on them ? Is oil and water mixing via said ?

wedge the window up, that has sorted that for the moment.  Elect window bustbon my daughters car.  I wedges and taped the glass up until I could fix the regulator.  Buy some time.

have you got heater on hot

[artdjones]

Is the inhibitor switch ok?

[Mr_Bo11ox]

What a weapons-grade muthafucka. Sorry to her this ghostrider. I would do something like the following.

1. Any bubbles popping up in the expansion bottle while its ticking over? If so its almost certainly still got head problems - could be warpage, or that pitting perhaps. If not, don't despair, try to get it running properly at tickover and worry about the head later. If you're thinking it might have an airlock, use a sawn-off pop bottle in the top of the expansion tank to raise the head of water and run it for a while squeezing the radiator hoses to try and 'burp' some air out.
2. Defo don't start dragging the wiring loom out.
3. Is there any way to interrogate the EML? On the honda-engined 800's of the same era you could get the EML to flash up a diagnostic code (I cant remember exactly how TBH but i'm sure some googling would reveal it, i defo did it myself to fathom out that my cam sensor was duff on my old 827).
4. The tip about 'leave it for a while and come back to it with a clear head' is well worth following.
5. Good luck!!!

[somewhatfoolish]

Have a look at the plugs, if one cyl is getting water in it will likely be a different colour.

[Ghosty]

I'm suspecting a crack. It had a blown radiator before I got it, but there was a new rad provided by an acquaintaince and fitted by Charlie. Auto rads are £££  too. Oil cooler, don't think there is one.

EMLs on these are on until the fault is eliminated, I don't think PGM-FIs have a reset aside pulling the ECU fuse, and that doesn't work, EML comes back. 

 

I'd take a sabbatical from it but I don't have the time or patience, the thing was supposed to be my daily, and it was supposedly running, instead it's put me on my arse for a month. 

I need a car to make money and get me out of a hole, and throwing £250 I don't have at an untrustworthy car does not make a living. 

 

 

 

[vaughant]

Shame this hasn't worked out so far but it all sounds "doable" of you're that way inclined but I also know that feeling with many, many unfinished projects over the years. 

Did you ever look into the auto trans selector issue? I know on most cars it just immobilises the starter circuit but I'm wondering whether somethings incorrectly connected causing an interlock when you try to move off. Assume it does this in all gears? I've seen in the past that some vehicles need to see (albeit industrial) that you are at zero speed before starting, I'm wondering if the ECU thinks dumping into gear at 1500 rpm is too much? 

There will almost certainly be some form of diagnostics on that but how to access i dont know. 

On a positive note there's a health and safety poster in Honda that has a drawing of basically that car on it from circa 1990!!!

 

I'll take a pic when I get back in, might inspire you a bit. 

Best of luck sir. 

 

[vaughant]

21 hours ago, Ghosty said:

Apparently the answer to my problem is 'airlock'. 

Off out to see if I can get the thing to move again. 

There is a bit of a trick you can use but be careful!!! 

If it's cable/mechanically linked to the gearbox, disconnect and physically move the box to drive/reverse, whatever is safer. 

Slip the shifter into N in the car as this will fool the vehicle into thinking its not in gear. Try to start it, it should start ok as obviously unlike a manual it won't lurch forward or anything until drive gets taken up but it will after a second or so "shunt" into gear. 

If it stays running /creeping my guess is its an electrical fault like an interlock somewhere. 

No reason why you can't keep your foot on the brake for added safety. 

I had a free 528i due to this issue, well, snapped selector cable. Got it home this way with no issues,and I may *have used it for a week like this. Twas a tad inconvenient ?. 

[MorrisItalSLX]

I’d say there is sadly an underlying issue with the head or block causing HGF, it certainly doesn’t look promising.

Long shot, but would the old Civic engine fit? I don’t recall it being stuffed prior to removal.

[Ghosty]

The Civic engine has 30 less horsepower, it's a 1.4 SOHC. I also can't be fucked with doing that at all. 

[vaughant]

14 minutes ago, Ghosty said:

The Civic engine has 30 less horsepower, it's a 1.4 SOHC. I also can't be fucked with doing that at all. 

Bummer. 

Yes, sometimes you need to know when to bale. 

I'm at that stage now with my Vito. Ok, I've done a ton of welding on it but it still needs a ton more, it's a bit smoky at idle, front suspension is pretty much shot and after all that I'll need to do some sort of dayvan conversion at the very least. 

I'm thinking I'll buy a better one bodywork wise as mine is the bad '04 year and use the one I've got for all the bits and bobs or if I'm really lucky one with mechanical issues to swap straight over. 

I'm at a point where I dread looking at it, it's been great to get the welder sorted and get some practice in but realistically I value my time as doing something more interesting on it hence starting with something thats better first. 

A real pity on the old Honda as it does look a nice example. 

Perhaps mull about until a complete engine turns up? 

[Kowalski]

Personally if it was my car and the head gasket had failed and I had seen that pitting on the head I would have either sourced another head if possible or got the corrosion tig welded then skimmed but as this car is an unknown I would change the whole engine.

I say unknown but it has almost certainly been thrashed to near death and overheated badly. Once they have been properly fried they are never the same.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

If you can bear to look at this ungrateful bastard again I did find the attached info for interrogating PGM-Fi problems on Rover 216 twinks which have got to be the same right??

Quote

216 gti 16valver should be the honda engine for that year, with PGMFI injection, ya can easily tell, just have a look on the intake plenum, itll say? yep PGMFI ! 

The check engine light coming on is a good sign, it means that the managemnt is logging a fault that you can have a look at. 

Open the passenger door, and push the seat back for some room. 
In the footwell, pull up the carpet, from the front, and you should be able to see the ecu. 
If i remember rightly, there may be a bracket that gets in the way if you wanna see the ecu fault code light, you may have to remove it. 
The fault code light is either on the side or the front face of the ecu, and you will see it flashing if you turn on the ignition only and have a look. 

Ok youve got the carpet up, you can see the red led (theres sometimes a yellow one too ignore it) get someone to turn the ignition ON. 
The red led will now flash a number of times depending on the fault logged. 
To count the fault code, count the number of flashes of the led, NOTE: you may have more than 1 code stored, so youll get the codes flashed out one after the other, paper and pen is handy to write em down with. 
The codes are followed by a delay of 2 seconds and then repeated. 
Once the fault is fixed, you need to erase the ecu memory of it. 
Turn OFF the ignition and remove the ecu fuse(in the box somewhere) for around 10 seconds minimum, then put it back in (obviously)  

Ok, the fault codes you should see (if any) are as follows. 

0 ecu wire disconnected(non start) 

If the led isnt on when the ignition is then: ecu wire disconnected or short in warning lamp(non starter). 

1 oxygen content (cat models) -a 
2 oxygen content (cat models) -b 
3 poor connection to m.a.p. sensor-open or short circuit in map sensor or faulty map sensor. 
4 crank angle sensor 
5 disconnected or blocked map sensor vacuum pipe. 
6 coolant temp sensor disconnected. 
open or short in coolant temperature sensor wiring- or faulty sensor. 
7 throttle switch disconnected-open or shorted-or faulty switch. 
8 crank angle sensor open or shorted or faulty sensor. 
9 cylinder sensor(knock) faulty. 
10 air temp sensor disconnected open or shorted or faulty wiring/sensor faulty. 
11 idle mixture adjuster sensor disconnected,open or shorted wiring or sensor faulty. 
12 egr(exhaust gas recirculation) system harness disconnected, open/shorted or faulty sensor. 
13 air pressure sensor disconnected, open or shoted wiring/ faulty sensor. 
14 idle control valve wiring shorted/open circuit or faulty idle control valve. 
15 short circuit in ignition circuit or faulty amplifier 
16 injector valve fault (cat models) 
17 speed sensor faulty. 
18 open or shorted timing circuit or faulty ignition timing adjuster. 
19 lock up control solenoid valve, (auto trans models) 


Hope this helps geeza. 

 

[Ghosty]

Cheers Bol - I've already done that though, I'm well aware of the porthole in the passenger footwell after rebuidling my first 216, it kept throwing up lambda fault codes after I rebuilt it until I put a good quality NGK sensor in.

It just gives code 9, knock sensor.

There's a brand new NOS knock sensor on there, and I have the Honda workshop manual for PGM-FI - it's earthing correctly and the resistance figures are correct, conclusion is that either the ECU is duff or there's a break in the loom. I've had the dizzy apart too to check for continuity. 

 

And this is all before we consider the pressurising coolant system, two shouldered tyres, welding, broken shifter (interlock is not the issue BTW), cold heater, lack of MOT... 
It's game, I'm afraid. I've swapped four head gaskets and built a carburetted SOHC VTEC out of a '91 Civic GL, this is the first non-starter I've had. The engine's been cooked past viability and I've been shafted. It was sold as a running, rot free car and it's anything but. It's been driven to death. 
If it doesn't get sold as spears and reapers, then it'll have to be James Browned. I don't have the time or patience for it, and I need a trustworthy car asap so I'm not on my arse. 

 

I've scoured eBay, Auto Trader and the like, and I have one solitary candidate for the moment. It's new terrritory for me, but it looks extremely clean and for what it is, and the age, the miles are low. I don't think anyone on here would be able to guess what it is, as I've had nothing like it before... 

[captain_70s]

On 2/7/2020 at 12:51 AM, Ghosty said:

£460 later

I hate to say it but with that sort of budget the number of cars you're going to find that aren't utterly humped isn't going to be great... My old Civic fetched that and I advertised it with a week of MOT,the information that the handbrake was disconnected and didn't work and enough charge in the battery to start the car exactly once...

[Ghosty]

1 minute ago, captain_70s said:

I hate to say it but with that sort of budget the number of cars you're going to find that aren't utterly humped isn't going to be great... My old Civic fetched that and I advertised it with a week of MOT,the information that the handbrake was disconnected and didn't work and enough charge in the battery to start the car exactly once...

Fear not, my current budget is £2k as the parents want to get me out of the shit and back into work. I'll be paying them back when I'm making enough to. 

[Isaac Hunt]

I empathise that this Concerto is currently playing ‘les miserables’ without harmony.

cold heater and bubbles in the expansion tank worries me.

Is the heater valve opening when to operate the cold to hot knob ?

have you backflushed the heater with a hose pipe ?

link the feed from the engine to the return from the engine.  Ok so you will have no heater, but you will have flow.

I would want to know i’ve got flow.  With flow, drain and refill.

the bubbling could be the air lock finding its way out.

You said dodgy loom to cam sensor.  How much is crispy ducked ?  Can you cut the plug off the bad wiring, cut out the fried length and make up a temporary loom, doesn’t have to look pretty at the moment.  Chocky block connectors just to sort the circuit, get that fekkin EML shut up.

if you can get past those two then you might be sticking two fingers up to the geezers wot broke it and sold it.

with those two sorted, then it is time to look at that autoselector shite that’s occurin

the tyres and welding are simple jobs when the big three are done.   

 

[BorniteIdentity]

I reckon this would be the first car I’d ever scrapped (if it was mine). 

What an ungrateful shit. 

Sadly, at your stage in life, the car you want and the car you need are completely different things. I know I constantly bang the drum about 90s Toyotas but I have three - none have ever let me down in 6 years of ownership. Ever. 

I hope you get something you’re happy with man. And hopefully you can get a few quid for it as a breaker. 

[Sir Snipes]

Shame to frag a rare car with an interesting engine but if it's still making you miserable then yeah fuck it right off.

I doubt you'd find a spare D-series Twinc just kicking around.

[Rod/b]

If i were you i’d sling that Honda shit in the bin and find a nice k-series Rover to stick in it instead.

[Jim Bell]

6 hours ago, Ghosty said:

Fear not, my current budget is £2k as the parents want to get me out of the shit and back into work. I'll be paying them back when I'm making enough to. 

Holy shit, 2 grand?!

Can I guess Lexus LS430?

[Kowalski]

Whatever you buy, just make sure it's had a proper owner! One quick peek at that Honda says to me that some idiot has been at it and stay clear!

[loserone]

What you need is a beige 305.  Your parents would be delighted!

[SiC]

49 minutes ago, loserone said:

What you need is a beige 305.  Your parents would be delighted!

I still reckon he should lob a mattress in the back, blacken the windows and drive south into Europe. Leaving life and bad weather behind. 

[SiC]

@MarvinsMom Lexus?

 

[loserone]

2 minutes ago, SiC said:

I still reckon he should lob a mattress in the back, blacken the windows and drive south into Europe. Leaving life and bad weather behind. 

That's an excellent idea.  

 

2 minutes ago, SiC said:

@MarvinsMom Lexus?

 

But so is this.

 

Isn't there supposed to be an economical car on the fleet, though?

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Ah sounds like you’re well ahead of me already Ghosty.

Perhaps youre right and this one has just been neglected beyond salvation by sticker twats.

Shame, these are a rare and interesting motor now but I know the feeling about ‘FFS man I have to earn a living not fuck about with this crap all day’. We’ve all been there with these hopeless heaps though, especially early on in our shiteing careers, in the end they all turn into more-or-less worthwhile life experiences even if they are stressful as f**k at the time. Good luck!

[MarvinsMom]

economy? so very, very over rated! it will do around thirty to the gallon on a run, not bad i think for a 4 litre auto.

and this does at least work....

and lets have a more recent picture of the beast looking clean and tidy.

currently its not clean, due to bloody weather, but it is still nice and tidy inside.

[Jim Bell]

What you REALLY need is a turbodiesel Panda. 

Nothing in the world is cheaper to run.