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Rear engined cars


ProgRocker

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Another motoring topic while I was pondering about recently. Maybe better for the 'modern shite' subforum. Why are there very few rear engined cars available to choose from these days? Did they fall completely out of favour with new car buyers? :unsure:

The only one I can think of is the Porsche 911 or something exotic. I guess the Smart Forfour is (if it's still on sale). Which shared the same platform as the Renault Twingo, which is no longer on sale. I thought that the Twingo was an interesting option with it's rear engine layout. B) OK the boot space is compromised, I could live with that. Bloody decent turning circle though, as there is no engine in the front to get in the way of the steering. Surely that has to count in congested urban environments? :huh: Although the Twingo was slated as being a bit dull in the handling and ride department.

I think a modern version of a Renault 8/10 or Skoda 1000MB/Estelle/Rabid would be an interesting alternative to the snoozeboxes on the car market. :)

 

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It’s a shit answer to the question of transport. It creates problems that don’t need to be there and having owned a 911 many years ago, even when done ‘well’ its shit. The 944 turbo was a far superior car in every way. And for the sake of decency let’s not mention the beetle.

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Packaging reasons, no? You said it yourself, even the Twingo with its tiny little engine has compromised boot space at the back. If the engine takes up the full rear compartment then you only have under the bonnet for boot space, and that's no use for a weekly shop.

Would still love a Tatra, mind.

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In occupied Czechoslovakia before and during WW2 the big rear engined Tatras got known as the Czechoslovakia's secret weapon. They appealed to high ranking Nazi military officials who proceeded to put them into the scenery with regularity.  Rear engined cars require a very rigorous engineering approach to make them work. 

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22 minutes ago, Skut said:

In occupied Czechoslovakia before and during WW2 the big rear engined Tatras got known as the Czechoslovakia's secret weapon. They appealed to high ranking Nazi military officials who proceeded to put them into the scenery with regularity.  Rear engined cars require a very rigorous engineering approach to make them work. 

Absolute bollocks I'm afraid. It's amazing how often this old canard gets repeated (so, not having a go at you personally!) but there is precisely zero evidence any Nazi ever died at the wheel of a Tatra, or that it ever got that nickname except decades after the fact. Tatras handle a lot more neutrally than most front-engined cars of the era and were very much vigorously engineered. 

Similarly, it's frustrating how the Corvair is 'remembered' as an ill-handling deathtrap (almoat exclusively by people who've never driven one) when, in fact, it is the ONLY American car I've experienced that actually handles at all - a total joy to drive on twisty roads with a lovely predictable feel. The front end gets a bit light in cross winds, but no worse than lots of much more modern front-engined, rwd cars do. 

A rear engine layout was a real boon in the pre-1970s era because it allowed a compact power unit/drivetrain assembly with none of the complexity of fwd, thùs also allowing a low frontal area in an age when aerodynamics were first seriously being applied to car design, and it isolated intrusive engine noise from the cabin (the Corvair is virtually silent at cruising speeds) and at a time when all heaters were shit/nonexistent the issue of cabin heat was less obvious. The r/r layout fell out of favour because fwd became so much cheaper and more reliable and engines became more refined, which negated the two biggest advantages of the layout. For ultimate handling and low centre of gravity, engine behind the cabin is still the best way to go - vide Lamborghini, Bugatti, Porsche, Ferrari etc etc etc...

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first gen' tesla's are 'technically rear engined' - the power electric unit being in the back AFAIK - I used to watch a few of them 'rich rebuilds' youtube vids (before he became really unbearable) where he takes apart/rebuilds salvage testlas with a kitchen kinife spoon etc - that's how I know...LOL

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Aren't an MGTF and an MR2 technically mid engined, along with most of the supercars listed at the end of barrett's post? 

Just so we're all singing off the same hymn sheet, a rear engined car is usually defined as having the engine behind the gearbox, which is attached to the rear wheels, isn't it?

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10 hours ago, loserone said:

BMW i3?

 

Yes, the i3 has its electric motor at the back and the Range Extender variant has its petrol engine at the back too.  The steering lock - without any drive shafts on the front wheels - is astonishingly tight

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9 hours ago, barrett said:

Absolute bollocks I'm afraid. It's amazing how often this old canard gets repeated (so, not having a go at you personally!) but there is precisely zero evidence any Nazi ever died at the wheel of a Tatra, or that it ever got that nickname except decades after the fact. Tatras handle a lot more neutrally than most front-engined cars of the era and were very much vigorously engineered. 

Similarly, it's frustrating how the Corvair is 'remembered' as an ill-handling deathtrap (almoat exclusively by people who've never driven one) when, in fact, it is the ONLY American car I've experienced that actually handles at all - a total joy to drive on twisty roads with a lovely predictable feel. The front end gets a bit light in cross winds, but no worse than lots of much more modern front-engined, rwd cars do. 

A rear engine layout was a real boon in the pre-1970s era because it allowed a compact power unit/drivetrain assembly with none of the complexity of fwd, thùs also allowing a low frontal area in an age when aerodynamics were first seriously being applied to car design, and it isolated intrusive engine noise from the cabin (the Corvair is virtually silent at cruising speeds) and at a time when all heaters were shit/nonexistent the issue of cabin heat was less obvious. The r/r layout fell out of favour because fwd became so much cheaper and more reliable and engines became more refined, which negated the two biggest advantages of the layout. For ultimate handling and low centre of gravity, engine behind the cabin is still the best way to go - vide Lamborghini, Bugatti, Porsche, Ferrari etc etc etc...

With you on the Corvair. I recently drove a second-gen, which had a vastly different rear suspension layout, and it was a serious joy to drive. I can't imagine anything else of the era getting close to be honest. I mean, for all their fine looks and V8 noises, Mustangs are bloody awful things.

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I think some of us are confusing rear engine and mid engined. Mid engine is unbeatable in the handling department, although front engine, rwd can be more fun as the limit is usually  lower.

Rear engined, as in engine behind the rear axle is always going to be a bad idea, but can be made to work up to a point, with enough money and clever engineers thrown at it

 

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15 minutes ago, dollywobbler said:

With you on the Corvair. I recently drove a second-gen, which had a vastly different rear suspension layout, and it was a serious joy to drive. I can't imagine anything else of the era getting close to be honest. I mean, for all their fine looks and V8 noises, Mustangs are bloody awful things.

So once they completely redesigned it the vehicle no longer had the capacity to kill so easily. Very laudable.

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Imps have been a constant in my life since I passed my test over 30yrs ago.  Go kart like and huge fun to drive - only ever had one head gasket failure too - back in 1990 taking a date to watch Pretty Woman at the cinema. I put the large Popcorn Bucket to good use afterwards filling up the cooling system.... she wasn't impressed.. ? ? _20200119_162329.thumb.JPG.4b9e125f346f03e8ee986c7c6d92b762.JPG

FB_IMG_1558867791079.jpg

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My son and I have owned many rear engined Skodas from the Estelle/Rapid era. Some had swing axle rear suspension, others had semi trailing arms. The latter had the higher ultimate grip but I preferred the swing axle versions. Both types were wonderful to drive and neither of us ever had a 'moment' when pressing very hard into corners. The driving technique is generally different for a rear engined car as it requires an understanding of the dynamics - weight distribution and suspension design - to get the best out of it, and 'the best' feels much more engaging than a typical front wheel drive car. Front wheel drive and understeer is what people are used to now, which is why the Mitsubishi i and the similarly configured Twingo and Smart for Four were set up to behave like a typically boring FWD car. I owned a Mitsubishi i for 83,000 miles and, while its packaging was remarkable for a car slightly shorter than a Citroen C1, its handling was, as I mentioned, toned down to feel like a standard white goods mobile.  

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48 minutes ago, Braddon81 said:

Imps have been a constant in my life since I passed my test over 30yrs ago.  Go kart like and huge fun to drive - only ever had one head gasket failure too - back in 1990 taking a date to watch Pretty Woman at the cinema. I put the large Popcorn Bucket to good use afterwards filling up the cooling system.... she wasn't impressed.. ? ? _20200119_162329.thumb.JPG.4b9e125f346f03e8ee986c7c6d92b762.JPG

FB_IMG_1558867791079.jpg

39017129744_9a5c0d5b60.jpg

...... Fairly comprehensive 'dismantlement' ;)

38091635151_f59a9f6fc6.jpg

MOTd... YaY!

35700757481_cd09806e12.jpg

998 Rocket!! ;)

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1 minute ago, face said:

Yeah, basically a Colt underneath.

The Brabus was a re-bodied Colt CZT.

The rear engined Twingo and Smart for Four are closely related and have links to the earlier Smart for Two and Mitsubishi i, though all of them are nearer to mid engined because the axis of the rear wheels passes slightly behind the bulk of the engine and transmission (it's marginal).  Earlier Smart for Fours were indeed a Colt in mild disguise and were front engined and front wheel drive, just a Smart styling exercise.

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I have very little experience of rear engined cars, but the ones I've driven all had the same feeling of the front end sort of bobbing a little, that and  the light positive steering made them seem more sporty than the two Estelles, and VW Fastback should have . Of the two 911s I've driven , I was so worried about going off backwards because of a lifetime of magazine scare stories , I probably drove them slower than the Skodas, even the 4S !

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If I've got a 4 wheeled trolley and I want to load it up, I make sure that the heaviest stuff is in the middle, over/between the axles, then lighter stuff can go on top, or on the overhangs. I'd imagine this works for cars too, where the heaviest bits are the people and the engine, so best place for them is over/between the axles. Why weren't there any rear engined motorbikes?

Rear engines appear to have been an interesting automotive dead end early on in the evolution of the motor car while everyone worked out the least compromised standard layout for vehicles. Other dead ends include rotary engines, air cooling, indicators on the right stalk,  a 'that'll do' attitude to car manufacturing,  cars that don't look angry and the Horsey Horseless. 

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