citroen h van Idiot Buys 1968 Citroen h van, wants to convert drums to discs

[PhilMcCrakin]

Hello Autoshiters,

 

I'm stuck in a quandary, I want to take the non-self adjusting drum brakes of my rust bucket and replace them with disc brakes front and back. "But why do you want to do this?" I hear you say, well I've only gone and fitted a rover 3.5 V8 with a Renault UN1 trans-axle gearbox to it so stopping is quite important. I have in the past done this conversion but with an off the shelf made for that model of car kit. There is however no off the shelf kit for the H van.

So my question is what do I need to measure/considered/know to order the correct set of discs calipers and associated box of OEM crap. I have rung around a few places but all are less than interested in helping and know almost nothing about the parts they sell.

I've attached some pics of what is there for your enjoyment.

[Mr Pastry]

That's a major design and engineering job.  It will be expensive.

As your top speed will be limited by aerodynamics,  a set of harder linings and a brake servo might be the best option, and that is quite easy to achieve.

 

[PhilMcCrakin]

2 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

As your top speed will be limited by aerodynamics

Yes it will basically a pig nosed box on wheels, I'm more interested in the torque of the V8 than the speed.

[PhilMcCrakin]

3 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

harder linings and a brake servo

So upgrade the drums to self adjusting "modern" versions of themselves? The whole system on this van was autoshite, the lines the master cylinder and all the slaves I've already stripped all this out so have Cart-Blanche. I budgeted to spend between £500 and £1000 on the braking system but obviously if i can get donor parts that fit that would be better.

[PhilMcCrakin]

If anyone cares here is the rust bucket, ongoing works.

 

http://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/208121/1968-citroen-van-rust-bucket?page=1&scrollTo=2558715

 

roast me

[1duck]

i'm sure you'll have seen it : http://www.hyconversions.nl/rem conversie_e.php  might be useful to give you an idea or two?

[PhilMcCrakin]

1 minute ago, 1duck said:

i'm sure you'll have seen it : http://www.hyconversions.nl/rem conversie_e.php  might be useful to give you an idea or two?

How on earth did all my googling in three different browser and with VPN locations changed did this not come up in my results.......internetshite.

[Tamworthbay]

First port of call is to see If anyone else has done it then see if the original hubs were shared with anything that was later converted to discs, sometimes dimensions of hubs etc can survive across model revamps/ new introductions. Then it’s looking at other vehicles that may work - hope you are patient if you try this. You can often find websites with the dimensions on replacement parts but finding the right one could be an epic quest.

[PhilMcCrakin]

27 minutes ago, Tamworthbay said:

First port of call is to see If anyone else has done it then see if the original hubs were shared with anything that was later converted to discs, sometimes dimensions of hubs etc can survive across model revamps/ new introductions. Then it’s looking at other vehicles that may work - hope you are patient if you try this. You can often find websites with the dimensions on replacement parts but finding the right one could be an epic quest.

Sobs quietly into cup of tea while eating a jam donut....epic quest.

[PhilMcCrakin]

38 minutes ago, 1duck said:

i'm sure you'll have seen it : http://www.hyconversions.nl/rem conversie_e.php  might be useful to give you an idea or two?

Just seen those cheeky dutch boys prices....ouch

[Mr Pastry]

7 minutes ago, PhilMcCrakin said:

Just seen those cheeky dutch boys prices....ouch

Told you so, but if they have done the work already that will be cheaper and quicker than developing your own.

[lesapandre]

https://citroenvie.com/disc-brake-solution-for-traction-avant-15-6-and-h-van/

An article on the conversion. 

You might also find help from the French HY owners club people. 

[PhilMcCrakin]

1 hour ago, Tamworthbay said:

First port of call is to see If anyone else has done it then see if the original hubs were shared with anything that was later converted to discs, sometimes dimensions of hubs etc can survive across model revamps/ new introductions. Then it’s looking at other vehicles that may work - hope you are patient if you try this. You can often find websites with the dimensions on replacement parts but finding the right one could be an epic quest.

You sir are a genius. So the quest begins in earnest: My compass points me in the direction of 3 other later citroen models that all have disc brakes and have a similar hub size. C25 C35 and CXI (MA).

[Tamworthbay]

6 minutes ago, PhilMcCrakin said:

You sir are a genius. So the quest begins in earnest: My compass points me in the direction of 3 other later citroen models that all have disc brakes and have a similar hub size. C25 C35 and CXI (MA).

Woohoo!fingers crossed there will be a match!

[Mr Pastry]

What is the BHP of your V8 engine?  What is the gearing going to be like with the R30 transaxle and van wheels?

I'm thinking what speed it will pull.

[chaseracer]

Darren Arthur at The 2CV Shop in Wiltshire has a HY camper with a 4.2 Rover V8...

https://the2cvshop.co.uk/about_1.htm

[PhilMcCrakin]

15 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

What is the BHP of your V8 engine?  What is the gearing going to be like with the R30 transaxle and van wheels?

I'm thinking what speed it will pull.

It is standard V8 3.5 lump with electronic injection (LPG and Petrol) with Renault un1 trans axle standard ratio box. Max power on it is 91Bhp@3500rpm but I doubt that is still true as it came out of a range rover classic with 120K on the clock. I have rebuilt the engine, pistons rings bearings cam all replaced with the crank re balanced. The van also has kitchen in the back (it's a catering van) so add another 500kg on board. I'm not building a hotrod just a cool old van but I need safety and functionality out of it hence ditching the indenor engine and gearbox.

[PhilMcCrakin]

15 hours ago, chaseracer said:

Darren Arthur at The 2CV Shop in Wiltshire has a HY camper with a 4.2 Rover V8...

https://the2cvshop.co.uk/about_1.htm

Thank you just rang and left a message

[PhilMcCrakin]

16 hours ago, Tamworthbay said:

Woohoo!fingers crossed there will be a match!

Looks like the talbot (hahahahaaaaodear) is the same van as the c25. I've taken a punt on a set of c25 discs (only 29.99 with postage) I'll test fit these and return if not suitable. (I love amazon)

[PhilMcCrakin]

15 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

What is the BHP of your V8 engine?  What is the gearing going to be like with the R30 transaxle and van wheels?

I'm thinking what speed it will pull.

take a few weeks back.

[PhilMcCrakin]

15 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

What is the BHP of your V8 engine?  What is the gearing going to be like with the R30 transaxle and van wheels?

I'm thinking what speed it will pull.

Here is the UN1 with the first mockup of the gearbox mounts

[Mr Pastry]

Interesting pics, thanks.  Only 91BHP?  That may be correct, but I don't know the Rover engine.  I have done some ball-park figures, but let's wait and see what Darren has to say.

[Jikovron]

If the engine is a 9.35:1 efi then its 160bhp/205lb/ft and aslong as the exhaust isnt restricted too badly then it should still be those figures given the rebuild

91bhp would be a 8.13:1 twin carb engine with carb restrictions only fitted to LR101s 

That kit looks to be a custom hub with proprietary disc and c5 caliper , I imagine any brake disc will have to be mounted on the rear face rather than sandwich between the hub and wheel 

https://www.apecbraking.co.uk/Catalogue.aspx 

The above catalogue let's you search by dimensions HTH 

 

[PhilMcCrakin]

5 minutes ago, Jikovron said:

If the engine is a 9.35:1 efi then its 160bhp/205lb/ft and aslong as the exhaust isnt restricted too badly then it should still be those figures given the rebuild

91bhp would be a 8.13:1 twin carb engine with carb restrictions only fitted to LR101s 

That kit looks to be a custom hub with proprietary disc and c5 caliper , I imagine any brake disc will have to be mounted on the rear face rather than sandwich between the hub and wheel 

https://www.apecbraking.co.uk/Catalogue.aspx 

The above catalogue let's you search by dimensions HTH 

 

nice very, very nice! I'm awarding you legendary status, effective immediately.

[PhilMcCrakin]

12 minutes ago, Jikovron said:

If the engine is a 9.35:1 efi then its 160bhp/205lb/ft and aslong as the exhaust isnt restricted too badly then it should still be those figures given the rebuild

yes it is the 9.35:1 engine, I'm modifying a set of P4 headers (more space than anything) 2 into 1 and 2 into 1 with both 1's going to one for each side with 2 pipes out the back. no cat maybe a back box maybe not.

[Jikovron]

Some silencing ftw, p4 headers though, they were only 4 and 6 cylinder?

 P5,6,SD1 have a varied range of rear exit,centre and dual down pipe manifolds respectively , also p38 RR come with compact stainless steel manifolds that can exit forwards or rearwards or indeed cut up and refangled so to speak. 

Edit: p38 ones spotted!  Just as an aside K series manifolds use the same diameter SS pipework and are ideal for when the form desired wants more bends and such.

[Mr Pastry]

Ball park figures.

You can and should work this out and check it for yourself, so I'm not going into details, but - Taking the stock HY van as 50 bhp, 50MPH, and frontal area 52 square feet  suggests a drag coefficient of about 1 .  On that basis 150bhp will pull about 75 mph and 160bhp will pull about 77 mph IF the overall gearing is correct, which it probably won't be, so realistically the top speed is going to be 70 and a bit.   That doesn't sound a lot for the power, but that's air resistance for you.  The highest speed I have seen quoted for any stock model of H van is 58mph, which is not a whole lot less than 70.  If so, the standard brakes in good condition may be adequate.

Happy New Year!

[chaseracer]

Moved to the main board for a wider audience!

[PhilMcCrakin]

It's such a pleasure to find a forum with knowledgeable and friendly peoples. The problem with locking yourself away in the workshop and ploughing on is that you miss out on these kinds of discussions and idea sharing. I've manage to visualise the direction I need to travel more in the last 24 hours than I have in the last 2 weeks of tail chasing and arse scratching, many heads are better than one. Thanks everyone for you help.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Presumably the Rover lump is quite a bit lighter than the original too.

i had a P6 3500S engine in a S2 Land Rover which would just about do 75/80 and the standard drums were adequate enough , even for a 19 year old idiot who drove  it flat out everywhere. Well adjusted drums with modern linings would not even require a servo  if you're committed about when you need to stop...