Future InvestmentShite. Your up and coming classics are our concern.

[cort16]

Early imprezas are going to end up the price mk2 rs2000s are now.

They’re actually decent to drive ,  have the jdm thing and they have proper 99’s rally heritage.

Trying to find a nice original uk car that’s not rotten isn’t that easy though.

 

[Six-cylinder]

Surely MGF prices have got to rise?

[lesapandre]

1 hour ago, Six-cylinder said:

Surely MGF prices have got to rise?

Too badly engineered and too many in-period and current competitors and similar? MX5/Boxster/MR2/SLK etc.

The MG brand has become very debased too - MINI remains safe with BM but poor old MG...

My tips. Early BINI's...especially the Coopers and...this lovely...

I know I know - wrong Bond in the wrong wrong car...but any car in a Bond film seems to go up in value...and to me this looks like a proper sports car in the Triumph TR5/MGB/Sunbeam Alpine style...and look at the price of those. I would buy one and....it does not look like a banger and I would not feel an idiot driving one (though I don't mind looking an idiot but in a I'm completely crazy kind of way and you better get out of my way) - I am 60 yo.

[sierraman]

I think for the prices to rise it’s got to be something iconic of its time, a Capri 3.0 or a Cosworth, then the other ‘lesser’ ones rise. Some tackle like Talbot Solaras and Renault 21’s will never be worth a trillion quid despite being infinitely more interesting. They weren’t very desirable when they were new, it’s probably not a car (most) would look back at fondly. But on that principle how/why people are giving silly money on Ladas etc I don’t know. 

[Conan]

3 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

but any car in a Bond film seems to go up in value...

2nd Gen Ford Ka and Mk4 Mondeo then. Which seems more probable than you'd expect.

[lesapandre]

2 minutes ago, Conan said:

2nd Gen Ford Ka and Mk4 Mondeo then. Which seems more probable than you'd expect.

Yes early Sherpas too...but you have to wait a bit.

 

[lesapandre]

I will bid the early Matra Espace...very neat, plastic and knife and folk tech...useful too. I saw an early one in London this morning. Vel Satis too - my friendly welder has one and he is very choosey in what he collects and rates - I see those gaining cult status.

He also has an Insight in his collection...again I tip this - it looks goonily cool and will appeal to Generation X - it is also a first of sorts. Look at those rear spats!

I will add the early Discos. Very nice and pulled up by LR prices and superuseful.

Early Landcruisers seem criminally undervalued if you can find one. The build quality is amazing (except rust) and they are again really useful.

 

[DaveDorson]

30 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

I will bid the early Matra Espace...very neat, plastic and knife and folk tech...useful too. I saw an early one in London this morning. Vel Satis too - my friendly welder has one and he is very choosey in what he collects and rates - I see those gaining cult status.

He also has an Insight in his collection...again I tip this - it looks goonily cool and will appeal to Generation X - it is also a first of sorts. Look at those rear spats!

 

I've had the horn for one of them Insights forever.

 

Robocop future today.

[lesapandre]

Some period colours too. That green especially. 

You need to live here too...Seaside in Florida...featured in the Truman Show.

So I will add the Jacques Nasser legacy 'new line' and all the jellymould Fords...including the Puma particularly but right through from Sierra to Cougar and the first Focus. Nasser saved Ford and like Iacocca knew a good car when he saw it. A lot of these are 'milestone' cars for FoMoCo which without them may not now exist. The Sable/Taurus is a pretty cool car too from this era which went some way to redefine the US car:

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/features/cc-analysis-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-ford-taurus-and-mercury-sable-in-american-popular-culture/

PS - most people have seen the film but if you have not it is very very good.

[Angrydicky]

This thread sums up much of what is wrong with the old car scene at the moment.

Far too much of the same stuff seen at shows etc because that's "where the money is" and people are buying classic cars as investments due to low interest rates on savings.

What happened to just buying cars you liked the look of, as an enthusiast?

[Tadhg Tiogar]

1 hour ago, Angrydicky said:

.... people are buying classic cars as investments due to low interest rates on savings.

What happened to just buying cars you liked the look of, as an enthusiast?

More flippers than a dolphin sanctuary  

[spartacus]

It's a fine line. From what I can see many of us on here are happy to save a car using 'Man maths', even if it ends up costing us money. It is, though, a different world from that which most people live in. The cost of running more than one car often has to be justified to partners/family etc, who don't see the 'hobby' aspect. If you can convince them that you may not lose money, or even make a little, then it often makes life easier. If the hobby can be self financing, FOAD appears to do well at this, then that makes it even better.

I don't follow the show scene at all, so I couldn't make any comparisons on figures but coming on here gives me hope that there's a fair few out there who just want to run on old car because they can.

[Mrcento]

Fiat Cinquecento's.

They're never going to go crazy of course, but they are rapidly starting to go up in value.

Even the best ones 5 years ago were only £6-700, that's now pretty much where the more ropey ones with short MOT's are...

[Budgetbond]

Yeah people chase the money following the herd to cash in I'd luv to see the classics price/demand curve of particular models as the market of the demographics matures then dies off or becomes disinterested but it's v difficult to know what cars actually sell for and am always a bit sceptical about that.

Demand would prolly come from modern either vv high end, something with a cult demand (maybe teenish), or just nostalgic but future sustainably gas guzzlers and diesels would be a risk.

Only way I can see it actually paying is looking after a modern cult lowish miler daily driver looked after long term anyway with future potential bought at the bottom of the depreciation curve or creating a low cost 'barn' whatever's available on our premises and buying mot failures of cult cars in there under a cover thatd require low cost future restoration in there with minimal maintenance purely on a price speculation.

In terms of my speculative personal first choice as a daily driver I always wanted another puma to keep and run long term if I couldve found a rust free example and keep that way

[Angrydicky]

I suppose I'm quite fortunate that the kind of cars I like and want to own don't tend to be mega sort after. If I was interested in MK1/2 Escorts or Lotus Carltons for instance, I'd be sorely disappointed as I'll never be able to own one!

Triumph Mayflowers on the other hand...

[HMC]

16 hours ago, Angrydicky said:

This thread sums up much of what is wrong with the old car scene at the moment.

Far too much of the same stuff seen at shows etc because that's "where the money is" and people are buying classic cars as investments due to low interest rates on savings.

What happened to just buying cars you liked the look of, as an enthusiast?

On principal I’m never buying “ classic cars” mag until they tone down that side of it (the one with Quentin Wilson as a columnist) as it seems editorially driven to play massively on the monetary value/ projected value of older cars in its content/opinion.

Graphs, statistical analysis of performance (not 0-60 but x-£50k) Maybe that’s what a lot find appealing? Obviously at a meeting they felt that would help drive circulation  (or maybe egg advertising space by talking up the market ?) Turn off for me.

[lesapandre]

12 hours ago, Angrydicky said:

This thread sums up much of what is wrong with the old car scene at the moment.

Far too much of the same stuff seen at shows etc because that's "where the money is" and people are buying classic cars as investments due to low interest rates on savings.

What happened to just buying cars you liked the look of, as an enthusiast?

Quite right. This site is about driving what is good or so bad it is good or interesting etc. The thread could be titled though 'Future Cherished Shite' - value is driven by desire and supply to an extent. In the first instance thought it's which cars people can be bothered to keep and love cus most are scrapped. What percentage pass into preservation? 1%?

Some vehicles like supercars it is easy to predict - but what of the rest - which ones will people want to hang on to? Or for folk on here - what is worth hanging onto as a viable driver? 

Nothing wrong with value in itself - it can save cars from slowly being forgotten or simply dwindling away due to indifference or repair cost.  

Mighty different to predict though in a potentially decarbonising world - its a whole new ball game. 

You are right - buy what you like and enjoy it. 

My favourite steer...an early 90's Renault Master...really so much fun from the chug of the diesel to the incredible panoramic windscreen etc.  Will the value go up? Possibly. Do I care? Nope.

[lesapandre]

13 minutes ago, HMC said:

On principal I’m never buying “ classic cars” mag until they tone down that side of it (the one with Quentin Wilson as a columnist) as it seems editorially driven to play massively on the monetary value/ projected value of older cars in its content/opinion.

Graphs, statistical analysis of performance (not 0-60 but x-£50k) Maybe that’s what a lot find appealing? Obviously at a meeting they felt that would help drive circulation  (or maybe egg advertising space by feeding the market ?) Turn off for me.

I think a lot of it is about encouraging dealer advertising which is an important revenue stream.

[Angrydicky]

I don't think I've ever read a Classic Cars article that interests me. They are absolutely obsessed with posh and sporty stuff. 

I've seen a lot of values articles creeping into CCW too.

[DodgyBastard]

I really couldn't think of anything worse than buying cars as investments, it takes the fun right out of classic car ownership.

I'm in a position where I don't need to make a profit when the time comes to sell but a profit is always preferable to losing money so I do always try if possible.

I usually buy cars I like the look of and my intention is to use and enjoy my time with them, I'd hate the idea of having to keep them pristine condition, I'd never want to use them and would be in a constant state of fear in case they got damaged in some way.

I suppose the types of people I'm selling cars to are probably seeing them as some kind of investment but it's not for me.

I'd rather flip them right now for a small profit rather than holding onto anything in the hope it might drastically increase in value at some distant point in the future.

 

 

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[HMC]

Personally speaking I use and enjoy examples of cars more that are a bit “lived in” and bashed a bit, but mechanically good. No worries. These are also cheaper to buy and probably the opposite to what looks good in a mag and the opposite of the top examples that get pushed as setting a new record at auction for the model. Yawn. Better keep it in a dehumidifier then.

[HMC]

Because it’s always the best of the best that go for the best money in the long run (often a lot more than an “average” example. These are often the ones that usually never see proper use.

I was glad to see this p5b out yesterday. Prime speculator material at the right price as it genuinely seemed utterly flawless; allthat expensive chrome; the difficult to refurbish correctly rims, potentially concourse. But the owner did look anxious and was looking up at the sky (fear of rain?)

What a beauty. And a Rover.

[lesapandre]

1 hour ago, HMC said:

Because it’s always the best of the best that go for the best money in the long run (often a lot more than an “average” example. These are often the ones that usually never see proper use.

I was glad to see this p5b out yesterday. Prime speculator material at the right price as it seemed flawless; alll that expensive chrome; the difficult to refurbish correctly rims, and potentially concourse. But the owner did look anxious and was looking up at the sky (fear of rain?)

What a beauty. And a Rover.

I still pref your van for so many reasons. The Rover...just too much hassle no wonder the owner looks anxious. 

Looking at the sky...he was probably praying...it would restart.

He's also just put £80 in his fuel tank which will get him...not very far.

Personally I long ago gave up on desiring these accepted 'classics' - give me a C15 van any day. Who wants to pay to lug all that chrome about? 

And as the current crop of owners dies off - who will want to take on these wheeled boudoirs? Values can go down as well as up especially with maintenance costs. 

Time, as they say, will tell.

But each to his own - suppose that is part of what makes all this so interesting.

Meanwhile that Mercedes is ace...even the garage runs a points system - Rover 3stars but the van has 5stars...and is thus a winner! Bet the passenger likes it too!

 

 

[Budgetbond]

14 hours ago, Budgetbond said:

Yeah people chase the money following the herd to cash in I'd luv to see the classics price/demand curve of particular models as the market of the demographics matures then dies off or becomes disinterested but it's v difficult to know what cars actually sell for and am always a bit sceptical about that.

Demand would prolly come from modern either vv high end, something with a cult demand (maybe teenish), or just nostalgic but future sustainably gas guzzlers and diesels would be a risk.

Only way I can see it actually paying is looking after a modern cult lowish miler daily driver looked after long term anyway with future potential bought at the bottom of the depreciation curve or creating a low cost 'barn' whatever's available on our premises and buying mot failures of cult cars in there under a cover thatd require low cost future restoration in there with minimal maintenance purely on a price speculation.

In terms of my speculative personal first choice as a daily driver I always wanted another puma to keep and run long term if I couldve found a rust free example and keep that way

On further enhancement to my post maybe to best hedge your bets would be to go down the donor car approach if there's a car you really really lust after to run long long term then get another potentially recommissionable useful donor car  too if the price does skyrocket too you's doubles your money!!

Can't think what cars would be good to do that with itd have to be something long term sustainable and useful and culty too like maybe a Nissan cube or Figaro!!!!?

Personally I'm sort of doing that myself I'm running a Celica gen 7 long long term gonna lpg it for sustainability and when it does succumb to the tin worm I'll get another and keep it as a donor but def o not for any thought of future appreciation!!

Well that's the plan until the next big thing comes along anyway!!.

[HMC]

If people were prepared to spend six figures at a Nissan specialist to restore a 1980s sunny (and Nissan were making extra “continuation” models using precious precious unassigned chassis numbers) And the specialists were prepared to pay for full page glossy ads, perhaps we would have highbrow classified ad road test featurettes and and editorial hushed reverence about the seminal sunny etc. Or maybe not.

[HMC]

Rover Classiche ad on the back cover, glossy full page.

“We made your 25. We can verify it’s original spec and make a exacting factory standard restoration (eg sloppy seam sealer, line stops to mimic lack of componentry due to unpaid suppliers, the whole shebang) to PROTECT YOUR INVESTMENT.” 

[HMC]

“This matching numbers model is a limited run PICCADILLY. We need not expand on how this limited run homologation special absolutely REWROTE the special edition rule book when it was introduced to a slack jawed Geneva salon. In fact it is rumoured to be this very car that Fred jobsworth had to famously drive overnight from the factory with the paint still wet. It is so original The discarded ash tray fag ends are his.

Expressions of interest of this beautifully patinated, matching numbers PIECE OF ART can be gain by pre applying for a sales catalogue (£134)

This survivor (which we are falling over ourselves to tell you is a BARN FIND) is the first to come to market for some time and will be auctioned in GSTADT next month. It Is an essential addition to any serious collectors portfolio. Naturally the buyer may choose to commision a ground up restoration to protect their investment.

Real world- my mate Steve has bought it on e bay  last week because he’s always wanted one. He’s going to spend years tinkering with it in a shed because that’s what he likes to do.

 

 

[lesapandre]

Titled owner? Once looked at by Princess Di or a Pope? Peter Sellars had one like this...Italian Job...and on and on and on...zzzzzzzzzz.

Nice little car btw...lots to tinker with, economical and does not take up too much space. Looks unmessedwith...and well bought. An investment - dunno but whoever will get back what they put into it.  A lot of crap parts about tho. Try for NOS.

[Budgetbond]

2 hours ago, HMC said:

If people were prepared to spend six figures at a Nissan specialist to restore a 1980s sunny (and Nissan were making extra “continuation” models using precious precious unassigned chassis numbers) And the specialists were prepared to pay for full page glossy ads, perhaps we would have highbrow classified ad road test featurettes and and editorial hushed reverence about the seminal sunny etc. Or maybe not.

Or maybe yes, perhaps in the future any cars from this era will be worth a lot but not called classics just considered 'BETTER'

The ads may go something like "a car from the golden era of car manufacturing, they don't make them like this anymore, far far better than any new car currently available to purchase now and therefore an absolute bargain at £*** ***!!

[matara]

What do you think about 90's Alfa Spider/GTV's? I have a 1998 Gtv v6 and a 2002 twin spark spider here in Australia. They are still chod money here at the moment!