AS and the Environment...

[somewhatfoolish]

1 hour ago, barefoot said:

Tebbit once famously told folk to get on their bike & look for work. Nice idea, but no-one works locally anymore, my wife has a 50 mile commute North & she passes a millionty folk with a 50 mile commute South, it's no wonder the roads are busy. Similarly, when I was a kid at junior school, we all went to one of the two schools in the village, depending on which side of the main road we lived. Now parents have to apply to send their kids & they also apply to send them to the 'better' or smaller village schools in Diseworth & Hemington. At the mo, Diseworth is 3 sets of lights, a temp set of lights and 3 roundabouts away, Hemington is just two sets of temp lights away. And the parents of course, have to drive that & then drive home and then do it both ways again in the evening. it's no wonder the roads are so...

There should be corporate and individual tax breaks for working from home, if road pricing ever arrives that will effectively be a negative encouragement in that direction. So many people travel to offices only to sit in front of a screen and talk on a phone, all of which can be done at home.

 

2 hours ago, wuvvum said:

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that a slow-speed 2-stroke diesel is about the most thermally efficient internal combustion engine there is, so in terms of fossil fuel use per MW/h or whatever they're already ahead of the game.  Agree though that we're going to be seeing a lot more breakdowns and / or shipowners prosecuted for bypassing the scrubber system in the future. 

The problem is that if every freight company ran their ships on MGO rather than HFO the cost of freight would go up massively, which would mean that everyone would have to pay more for their Black Friday megadeal* 10'6" TV, and that brings us back to the old problem of most people being happy to see environmental policies in places as long as it doesn't affect them personally.

Slow speed diesels are definitely that; perhaps the holistic answer is for the sulphurous shite to be burned in power stations with 3rd party monitored scrubber systems, which being on land can be as heavy and as bulky as they need to be rather than dictated by the needs of ships not falling over and sinking and having finite space in the funnel for this shizz; shipping will need to be more expensive to pay for the diesel or ULSFO, but it's in everyone's interest for this to be done to not fuck the environment, keep the economy going etc.

[cort1977]

1 hour ago, barefoot said:

Finally the science of the melting icecaps. 

Ice doesn't have a greater mass than water, it is less dense hence it floats.  I think you mean a given mass of ice takes up a larger volume which is true and in your example the water level in the glass will drop as the ice melts.  However, the ice caps are above sea level, as they melt the water will flow downwards and raise sea level.   You can already see this, google the number of times the Thames Barrier has been used, hardly at all in the 80s, quite regularly now.  Or look at flooding in Florida or Louisiana, much more prevalent than it used to be.

The science on this is settled, it's not a matter of 'is it happening?' it's much more a case of 'what can we do to avoid it?' or sadly 'how will we cope with the disastrous effects?'

[Jerzy Woking]

1 hour ago, BorniteIdentity said:

I have to say it brings me disproportionate joy to see you doing exactly what you want - and how you want.  Something for us all to aspire to - especially when it's being done in an environmentally responsible way.

Thank you-thats a nice vindication of my (sole) decision to move to Spain. I have been to-ing and fro-ing to the UK and here, but last week decided that Spain will be my home

 I'm not getting any younger, have no ties to the UK, and can handle the weather here, summer and winter. It's the kind of house I've always wanted to own too. The environmental benefits are pure councidence-all apart from my refusal to have a modern plastic septic tank fitted. Nothing wrong with the tradition system I have now-it works perfectly.

And this is the view from just up the track from the house, where the spring is.

[FakeConcern]

Thinking of technology used to make cars more environmentally friendly, what about stop/start? Does this have a cost in that starters and batteries need to be more heavy duty and presumably heavier in weight therefore using more resources to make and to move them around with the car? Also as stop/start only works when the battery is fully charged are many cars that don't go on long journeys carrying the extra weight unnecessarily?

It is ironic that modern cars no longer rust (in general) but get written off as the cost to fix the ever more complicated technology is too expensive to fix if (when) it fails.

[anonymous user]

Some of my work could be done from home, if our IT could sort it out; however, a lot of it requires site visits to awkward places. Ok most of it is within a fifteen to twenty mile radius, but with no efficient transport service (in South Wales) and the need to carry tools/equipment I will always require individual transportation.

Today I was in the office all day so could have worked at home, trouble is some work is planned, some is reactive and I can only plan so much.

I live fourteen miles from work, I can't afford to live closer, I'm still one of the lucky ones.

[shedenvy]

For sure working from home wont suit everyone, everyday but for a lot of twats like me travelling 50 miles on Essex's most congested roads just to spend 7.5hrs pretending to work and 0.5hrs forced, unpaid lunchtime in a place not of my choosing, it seems like working from home is a low hanging fruit.

Lift sharing makes sense too but from experience i'd rather cut my head off with a toothbrush.

Perhaps squeezing a 5 day week into 4 days, or 80% of pay but pay 1.25 people for 1 job. Etc etc.

Anyway this is all getting too political. Back to autoshite. I'm trying to figure out my next wheels, the Multipla has been running sans EGR for 12m so my NOx bill must be through the roof. It only manages 45mpg so not astounding considering I do 25k a year. I think a C1, 107, aygo might work best for me. Simple, 50mpg, low NOx and soot. Just invest in a nice plush coat.

[Rusty Pelican]

Read all of this thread and some very good points raised .

Over population is a massive problem , in numbers at least half the entire human race from the very beginning are alive today , 300 years ago you were lucky to hit 40 , no decent medicine , infant mortality  , black death etc etc kept the population down . Massive advances in medicine means we now live a feck sight longer and the population just grows and grows until the planet can no longer sustain us . We are a victim of our own success .

So is there an answer .

Not one that would be popular thats for sure , A film made in 1973 starring Charlton Heston called Soylent Green sums up where we are to a large extent  as does Logans run ( 1976 ).

You cant have consumerism and a growing economy and carbon neutral at the same time . making things disposable rather than fixable is pathetic but driven by profit and greed and the peoples need to keep up with the Jones 

I recycle what i can , upcycling is a hobby of mine , two of my cars are over 50 and rebuilt using bits from dead cars , ive failed a bit by buying an 06 W203 Merc , whilst its petrol and rot free the amount of plastic on it is quite frankly shocking , every where is covered in the stuff - even the sills and the entire floor pan , Fuck knows why but if you parked it for 1000 years outside 60% of it would still be there 

 

[Jerzy Woking]

1 hour ago, shedenvy said:

For sure working from home wont suit everyone, everyday but for a lot of twats like me travelling 50 miles on Essex's most congested roads just to spend 7.5hrs pretending to work and 0.5hrs forced, unpaid lunchtime in a place not of my choosing, it seems like working from home is a low hanging fruit.

My last job allowed working from home, although in the department I was in, it wasnt really possible. Didn't stop any number of my colleagues saying they were going to work from home, when in reality they were taking a day off without it coming from the leave entitlement. Worse still, management didn't see it.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

4 hours ago, HMC said:

It will be interesting to see how governments of the future handle companies and individuals regarding Attitudes and behaviour. Carrot or stick? We are also getting into the realms of who or what is influencing who - 

Government        ”the People”     Corporations

?

 

China will likely own half the world by then. The other half will be in some serious debt, owed to....China.

The Chinese. A great bunch o' lads.

[egg]

2 hours ago, Rusty Pelican said:

Logans run ( 1976 )

I almost had to post a pic of Jenny A. But I resisted. If that's the future, sign me up!

[Fumbler]

Upcycling is a hobby of mine too! The family fridge is just starting to go wrong aged 33 years old. Father Fumbler bought it used in 1996 and although we could have very easily bought a new fridge 10 or 15 years ago, we didn't. There was no need to as it seemed wasteful to throw away what wasn't broken. We've also bought used cars and only have one modern in the family fleet. Many of the things I build are made out of recycled materials. It's not much but its something to make sure we have as little an impact on the world as possible.

[HMC]

^ The fridge is a case inpoint for consumerism-

33 years old. Perfectly functional. How about an A+++++ low Energy model? Some will go for that and feel they are doing their bit for the environment (maybethey are?)If that doesn’t snag you, what about in gloss black with a 1 year warranty?

And what about that A+++ rating? Does that factor in the waste and reprocessing of what it replaces?

[bunglebus]

My mum's fridge must be at least 40 years old. Think her cooker dates from 1969. Nearly fell off my perch when she had double glazing fitted a few years ago, replacing the 1962 wooden frames - still no central heating though. A good 90% of the house is unchanged since the early 70's, furniture, kitchen, bathroom etc. Hated it as a kid, now I rather respect it. Think the only changes have been new gas fire in the lounge, and an additional one in the hall. TV was upgraded to a flatscreen too but only because the last of a line of 2nd hand CRTs died.

[warch]

Wastefulness annoys me almost more than pollution, especially packaging and throwaway components. I work as an archaeologist, so I get an inside track on people's use of material culture (i.e. stuff). Even up to the middle of last century there was very little waste (by modern standards). I can't see any real need for most stuff to come in single use plastic packaging.

The world population may not keep growing at the same rate either, families are smaller in developed countries, plus the increase of feminism and numbers of women in careers compared to 'the olden days' means that people often don't want to have children or if they do don't have hordes of them. Without immigration the UK population has plateaued in the last thirty years, albeit with more people clinging onto existence past their 70s.

I see Autoshite and the commonly expressed automotive philosophies expressed therein as a throwback to the days when you would bloody well get your money's worth out of a car or any other stuff that needs mending. Consumerism based around artificially encouraging people to keep buying new stuff all the time is one of the problems with modern first world economies. Interestingly it may not be a endless spiral, no less a purveyor of crap than the CEO of IKEA recently said that he believed that the world economy had passed the point of peak stuff. What he meant was that the economy is now increasingly dominated by things like service provision and non physical industries like downloadable content.  

 

[FakeConcern]

@jonny69

“There's the environment thread which is full of wrong information and strong opinions but I'll get told I'M wrong despite being a global expert in the field!

I hope you don’t mind me quoting you from a different thread, if you do then please let me know and I’ll delete this post.

I wrote the OP because I was interested to hear what AS would think about the environment and our place as car fanciers (or whatever) in protecting it. Obviously I have no idea of anyone’s qualifications unless they mention it and now you have! So I would be interested in finding out what the actual position is from a genuine expert in the field, if you don’ t mind that is. Not saying I'll follow your advice to help the environment though!

 

A couple of other interesting points from your post that are only partially connected to this thread, but I’m going to comment on them here anyway...

“There are all the wankers who try and deliberately give me a scare when I'm just riding to work, try and teach me a lesson, fucking cyclists, lycra MAMIL cunt, might make him think twice about riding a bike next time.”

I have experienced the above many times especially when I used to commute in London, in fact after hearing my complaints about this almost every day a (black) colleague compared how cyclists were treated with racism! Not sure I agree with that but It is amazing the number of people who are happy to put my life in danger to make point. Where I live now it’s particularly noticeable if I ride on the road instead of the cycle path (which is covered in mud, badly fitted drain covers, all sorts of rubbish, glass and overgrown with brambles, not forgetting that bikes have to give way to every junction including the entrance to a cafe!)

“...my car clearly looks like an eco car and some people go out of their way to so something cunty on the road or feel like they have to make a shitty comment. It happens every day and I don't get it in any other car. It really brings out the worst in people.”

I have to say, I am surprised about this reaction to a hybrid as they have become pretty commonplace as so many taxi companies use them, I wonder if other AS members experience this? @warren t claim

[loserone]

Yes, people are positively aggressive to leaf

[warren t claim]

Hybrids aren't really the norm here as PHVs except with drivers of Asian descent who need a relatively cheap to run automatic because many of them can't drive stick. Since I got my Ioniq another 15 or so have been plated in my area. Very few people even know my car is hybrid and plenty think it's a Focus or Astra due to the somewhat anonymous styling. 

[sierraman]

20 hours ago, bunglebus said:

My mum's fridge must be at least 40 years old. Think her cooker dates from 1969. Nearly fell off my perch when she had double glazing fitted a few years ago, replacing the 1962 wooden frames - still no central heating though. A good 90% of the house is unchanged since the early 70's, furniture, kitchen, bathroom etc. Hated it as a kid, now I rather respect it. Think the only changes have been new gas fire in the lounge, and an additional one in the hall. TV was upgraded to a flatscreen too but only because the last of a line of 2nd hand CRTs died.

I grew up without central heating but I wouldn’t go back to living like that. Also having just had a 1960’s house full of VIR cable completely rewired it sounds like a shit load of future expense you can do without when you get older if it’s not been touched since the early 70’s. 

[Scruffy Bodger]

15 minutes ago, sierraman said:

I grew up without central heating but I wouldn’t go back to living like that. Also having just had a 1960’s house full of VIR cable completely rewired it sounds like a shit load of future expense you can do without when you get older if it’s not been touched since the early 70’s. 

Some councils do or did do grants to help towards rewires where they are still wired in rubber. Certainly peace of mind getting it done as it's a Code 1 fail as it's a potential fire hazard now after all these years.

[willswitchengage]

On 12/4/2019 at 2:40 AM, somewhatfoolish said:

The scrubbers remove SOx to comply with IMO MARPOL regulation(tier 3 is coming in to force in January and will cause havoc); without scrubbers ships have to burn diesel or ultra low sulphur fuel oil in order to comply, which is a problem as there simply isn't refinery capacity to produce enough ULSFO to run the world's shipping, nor are ship owners or charterers interested in burning diesel as it's much more expensive. There's also the issue of what will happen to the sulphurous sludge that is HFO if ships stop burning it; it will be sold to poor countries where there are people who either cannot afford to care about SOx or don't care about it because they are shits. Scrubbers are a massive maintenance overhead, even open loop systems are enough to keep an extra engineer busy, closed loop systems are just ridiculous as they are dealing with large volumes of hot, acidic seawater filled with abrasive ash, which is so kind to things made out of steel. I'm glad I don't have anything to do with slow speed diesels, the whole thing is going to be a mess, and that's before you consider the nonsense needed to deal with NOx.

The new SOx shipping regulations arguably do more environmental harm than good. Whilst directly harmful to human health, the SOx particles suspended in the atmosphere are highly reflective and effectively act as radiation mirrors - reducing the amount of sunlight that reaches the earth in the first place.

https://www.anthropocenemagazine.org/2018/02/cleaner-ship-exhaust-could-save-thousands-of-lives-but-increase-global-warming/

[willswitchengage]

On 12/4/2019 at 4:54 PM, cort1977 said:

Ice doesn't have a greater mass than water, it is less dense hence it floats.  I think you mean a given mass of ice takes up a larger volume which is true and in your example the water level in the glass will drop as the ice melts.  However, the ice caps are above sea level, as they melt the water will flow downwards and raise sea level.   You can already see this, google the number of times the Thames Barrier has been used, hardly at all in the 80s, quite regularly now.  Or look at flooding in Florida or Louisiana, much more prevalent than it used to be.

The science on this is settled, it's not a matter of 'is it happening?' it's much more a case of 'what can we do to avoid it?' or sadly 'how will we cope with the disastrous effects?'

Interestingly the rising in sea levels is less to do with ice cap melting but overwhelmingly to do with thermal expansion of the oceans. The prime concern regarding ice cap melting is the commensurate reduction in ocean salinity, which leads to its own issues. 

[HillmanImp]

On 12/2/2019 at 10:05 AM, sierraman said:

Probably not but if people insist on building on flood plains. 

People go on about pollution getting worse and I’m sure it is but when you factor in how polluted it was years ago when we had heavy industry. I remember my Grandfather going on about the smogs of the 50’s from the steelworks and the pits so it wasn’t a green and pleasant land 50-60 years ago either. 

I've not read through the whole thread yet, so apologies if this has already been covered but I was reading a statistic recently that if you are over 30yrs old you've live through more the 50% of humanity's fossil fuel emissions. If you're in your 80's its something like 90%. MENTALZ

Yeah, we had some smog in the little old UK back in the 50's but now the developing world have got hold of all that shit and there's fuck off big boats chugging stuff round the world from these places that are churning it out in huge quantities and it's gone fucking haywire.

[Rusty Pelican]

21 hours ago, Fumbler said:

Upcycling is a hobby of mine too! The family fridge is just starting to go wrong aged 33 years old. Father Fumbler bought it used in 1996 and although we could have very easily bought a new fridge 10 or 15 years ago, we didn't. There was no need to as it seemed wasteful to throw away what wasn't broken. We've also bought used cars and only have one modern in the family fleet. Many of the things I build are made out of recycled materials. It's not much but its something to make sure we have as little an impact on the world as possible.

Had to get rid of our 1974 tumble drier , the stat failed and it boiled all me washing down to action man size . upcycled a borked gearbox in to a lamp in 1989 and been doing stuff like this ever since 

[HillmanImp]

On 12/4/2019 at 9:54 AM, Mr_Bo11ox said:

I think folk who are into cars are going to have to get a lot more philosophical about their hobby. I love cars but I can see with my own eyes that theyre a friggin menace and everybody driving round in 1-2 ton tin boxes burning fossil fuels at 30% efficiency is ridiculous. Everyone is gonna have to organise their lives so they are travelling about a lot less (including me who drives 100 miles/day to his office job).

 

Whether your car is an old Lucas-pumped ‘stinker’ or a modern hybrid with pictures of leaves on the instruments, is of little consequence really. So my tip is enjoy your shite while you still can but accept that its days are numbered.

If you don't buy your parts from China its fine. There are 15 ships that apparently produce as much carbon as all the cars in the world.

https://inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/cargo-container-shipping-carbon-pollution-515489

Concrete is apparently a bastard too. It produces CO2 when making clinker which I thought was another word for winnits stuck to your arse hair but apparently its burnt coal residue. 

 

[willswitchengage]

On 12/4/2019 at 4:50 PM, somewhatfoolish said:

There should be corporate and individual tax breaks for working from home, if road pricing ever arrives that will effectively be a negative encouragement in that direction. So many people travel to offices only to sit in front of a screen and talk on a phone, all of which can be done at home.

A lot of the drivers I see on my commute seem to spend most of their journeys making phone calls and sending emails.

Is it just me or is there no point in road pricing?

Just raise the price of fuel. A simple and effective non-Orwellian system. Buy a larger and less fuel efficient car, you are taxed more. Drive more frequently, you use more fuel, you pay more tax. Drive in busy periods, you use more fuel, you pay more tax. But the poor HGVs you say! Well, they use fuel too. They also cause the overwhelming amount of damage to roads through their sheer mass. Plus, it'd give the Chancellor a great revenue boost to get away with the VED and its daft tax breaks (who remembers the £20 band?) that are largely untouchable without pissing off too many voters.

[egg]

2 hours ago, loserone said:

Yes, people are positively aggressive to leaf

Sad and disappointing. I imagine Tesla drivers have it worse. Perhaps that's why they make them so fast...

[somewhatfoolish]

32 minutes ago, willswitchengage said:

The new SOx shipping regulations arguably do more environmental harm than good. Whilst directly harmful to human health, the SOx particles suspended in the atmosphere are highly reflective and effectively act as radiation mirrors - reducing the amount of sunlight that reaches the earth in the first place.

https://www.anthropocenemagazine.org/2018/02/cleaner-ship-exhaust-could-save-thousands-of-lives-but-increase-global-warming/

SOx reduction is mostly about avoiding acid rain, air quality is very much a side benefit.

8 minutes ago, willswitchengage said:

A lot of the drivers I see on my commute seem to spend most of their journeys making phone calls and sending emails.

Is it just me or is there no point in road pricing?

Just raise the price of fuel. A simple and effective non-Orwellian system. Buy a larger and less fuel efficient car, you are taxed more. Drive more frequently, you use more fuel, you pay more tax. Drive in busy periods, you use more fuel, you pay more tax. But the poor HGVs you say! Well, they use fuel too. They also cause the overwhelming amount of damage to roads through their sheer mass. Plus, it'd give the Chancellor a great revenue boost to get away with the VED and its daft tax breaks (who remembers the £20 band?) that are largely untouchable without pissing off too many voters.

Fuel tax is a poor way of discouraging rush hour driving as EFI/common rail engines are very efficient and don't guzzle fuel like carburetted engines or mechanically injected diesels at idle. Road pricing on the other hand can do much more, the wanky neologism is granularity but it offers much greater flexibility in what can be incentivised or discouraged; potentially you could charge morons £eleventy a day to deliver and collect their devil spawn at the school gate rather than make them walk, not stopping them doing stupid or anti-social things just taxing them punitively.

[loserone]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

Sad and disappointing. I imagine Tesla drivers have it worse. Perhaps that's why they make them so fast...

Just look at the first two pages of my leaf thread, it's ordinary and mostly nice folk on here, I might as well have mentioned brexit

[sierraman]

1 hour ago, Scruffy Bodger said:

Some councils do or did do grants to help towards rewires where they are still wired in rubber. Certainly peace of mind getting it done as it's a Code 1 fail as it's a potential fire hazard now after all these years.

Bit late now £4000 down the line ?. These things tend to sit silently until the VIR wiring needs to be disturbed usually due to having a new socket added or a new kitchen fitted etc.

[Scruffy Bodger]

2 minutes ago, sierraman said:

Bit late now £4000 down the line ?. These things tend to sit silently until the VIR wiring needs to be disturbed usually due to having a new socket added or a new kitchen fitted etc.

That's why it's recommended to get private premises tested every 10 years. A mate of mine had his rewired after a carer for his old man turned a bedroom light on. There was a loud bang and a flash and the light fitting landed on the bed ?. Lucky the place didn't burn down.