1978 CX Diesel - viewed and bought, but not by me

[Saabnut]

Went for drinkies at a friends down here in France this evening, and whilst there was introduced to someone who is going to look at a Citroen CX tomorrow as a potential purchase. He is more of a car fan than a car fixer so he has asked me to go along tomorrow and give my opinion. All I know is it is a '78 CX Diesel that has a CT (MOT) and has had the interior retrimmed. Are there any specific things I should be looking at, and in particular the common rust points? I have never owned a CX so they are new to me so any pointers would be very welcome. Asking price is 3.5k euros

[N Dentressangle]

http://www.citroenet.org.uk/miscellaneous/autocar-cx-buy-secondhand/cx-buy-2.html

Looks like a decent guide

[wuvvum]

Common rust points are the bits made out of metal.

[Asimo]

It will be very slow.

Might not have power steering if it is a poverty model.    Which is likely for a Diesel in '70s France.

Check that the spherical ashtray is present.

[jonathan_dyane]

Hope it is the 2500 which is fast enough. 2200 diesel I would suspect to be a bit flat but probably better than say a 504 diesel.

If it’s healthy engine should start instantly from hot or cold although glowplugs will take ages (something like 45 seconds). Beware slipping clutch, the gearbox can’t be removed without pulling the entire (very heavy) lump.

As above the main rust areas are everywhere but I’d say particularly sills, longerons, inner wings and under battery (and the same area on other side).

Good luck!

[Tadhg Tiogar]

52 minutes ago, Asimo said:

It will be very slow...

 

30 minutes ago, jonathan_dyane said:

Hope it is the 2500 which is fast enough. 2200 diesel I would suspect to be a bit flat but probably better than say a 504 diesel....

2200D mustered about 66hp. There are glaciers out there that move quicker.

2500 non-turbo D was something like 75hp. Still not brilliant but, if you're not in a hurry or spend much of your driving time in heavy traffic, 17 seconds to get to 60mph is irrelevant.

They will be quite noisy by today's standards.

Hopefully it has a five-speed box - helps overall economy - rather than a four.

Series 1s supposedly rust faster than Series 2 cars, yet are thought more desirable because more brightwork and purer shape.

[Spiny Norman]

I probably can't add anything useful, a 40 year old CX could be utterly fucked in any number of wallet wrecking ways, but I did once own a CX which had had its 2 litre petrol engine replaced with the 2.5 D lump and it was one of the most memorable cars I've ever had. It took about a minute to start from cold waiting for the glow plugs to do their thing, then the suspension to wake up, and it was the slowest thing I've ever driven.
They probably run on chip fat but I got my fuel for free off a bloke who came into the pub I worked in at the time, He drove a JCB digger and usually had a spare 5 gallon fuel drum with him which he'd empty into my car for a few free beers.
The one thing I will say is that the weird Citroen hydraulics are generally reliable and I'd imagine rust and broken or missing trim would be  more of a hassle to put right.


 

[lesapandre]

Seems on the face of it a good buy. You should be able to change its to 'historic vehicle' in France which will mean less often CT testing. These must rare now - I have only ever seen one on my trips to France in all the years. 

Problems - stating the obvious - starting and smoke.  Try and make sure you see it started from absolutely cold - that they have not warmed it up before you get there to make it look easy.

Good luck - sounds fascinating !

[Tadhg Tiogar]

11 hours ago, wuvvum said:

Common rust points are the bits made out of metal.

What's not to like?

[lesapandre]

Review in English of a CX diesel in a US publication from Curbsideclassic

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/vintage-reviews/vintage-review-citroen-cx-2500-diesel-pallas/

[bangernomics]

2.5d or td? Td is quick enough and frugal. Fuel pumps spindles leak but if you buy it I’ll post you a few deals and a top seal for the lid.

5 speeds eat the 5th gear, fill oil higher than marked to 1.8l rather than 1.6l otherwise 5th runs dry.

Heads crack if they’re allowed to overheat and the fuel heater on the block go porous and affect running.

The fuel filter head has a primer that leaks air in if it’s been used much and affects running.

Plus points, even a clumsy chimp like me can do a hg job, bits are ok to get hold of apart from heads.

[wuvvum]

Even my "modern" TD takes a good 20 seconds on the glowplugs to start from cold.  They do not make a good getaway vehicle.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

26 minutes ago, bangernomics said:

2.5d or td? Td is quick enough and frugal....

TD didn't come in until 1984.

[Six-cylinder]

In 2008 after running my CX 2.4i petrol Auto for 18 months I decided I liked driving it so much I wanted to do the majority mileage in a CX, but wanted better fuel consumption.

The logical step was to buy a diesel so I did, the fuel consumption improved from 24 mpg petrol to 33 mpg diesel. Trouble was as an early diesel I lost performance compared with my petrol and it had a very narrow power band as well. For me I missed the Auto as well.

Rust is the main enemy, subframe mounting, B pillar to floor plus all the usual places. Hydraulic Citroen's do require a bit of extra maintenance with pipework etc. I also understand the engines can go porous on a diesel and become scrap.

They are great to drive about in, but running a CX of any sort is a commitment in time, money and tracking down parts.

This was my CX25 DTR diesel and I still have my CX2400 I/E Pallas Auto.

 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

16 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

..... a commitment in time, money and tracking down parts.....

*hollow laughter*

[Saabnut]

Just back from an enjoyable if hot (28c) afternoon of poking around old French tat. I left as the potential buyer was about to commence negotiations, but I told him to get it bought!

What a lovely old car. It is a later 1978 model, being the N/A 2.5 Diesel, with 184k km from new, and most surprising, one owner from new! A genuine, honest example of a well used and maintained car. A surprise was the "re-upholstered" interior was in fact the original, the owner had only just removed the covers it has had since new. Horrible paint (TADTS) and a few very minor blebs and scrapes. Never welded, none needed, the cleanest CX I have seen since they were new. Only down points were it will need a couple of new tyres on the front and a rear box on the exhaust sometime in the next year or two. It is a good job I am a friend or I would be selling something to buy it myself. Loved it.

[Tamworthbay]

That is gorgeous! 

[Three Speed]

My first (of 3) CX was a 1980 2500 D Super which I bought in 1987. So - just 7 years old, Ziebarted from new and already rust door bottoms and bonnet. The bomb-site dealer I got it from swore it was not an ex-taxi but the hole in the dash cubby suggested he may have misspoken. I reckon it had probably done about 250k miles. It was a really good comfy mile-muncher. For a while I used it to commute through the Dartford tunnel. In those days there were 11 toll booths feeding 2 lanes. Turned out a filthy, rusty diesel CX commanded quite a lot of respect in the queue and it probably saved me 5 minutes every day. Faults - burst a hydraulic line, crankshaft oil leak, knackered drive belt pulley (there are 2 belts and the pulley has some kind of damper arrangement which fell apart one dark night). Like Spiny Norman, the glow plugs died and the engine needed such a lot of churning it fried the starter motor. That was a pig to replace. The egg-shaped coolant debubbler exploded one time which was quite spectacular. After owning the car for a while driving several thousand miles I discovered there was no cable between the governor and the steering box (never take a steering box apart) - fitting a cable transformed the steering giving it some weight at speed - fantastic! When I got the car the rear brakes were seized off - they have nothing to do unless there are people in the back. All the braking is done at the front - my front discs wore paper thin and cracked - evidence being the severe juddering . When I was looking for replacement discs at the scrappy  (I was poor) there were 2 CXs whose discs had shattered completely. I bought a complete spares cars from a scrapyard. This was a 1978 2400 C-matic Familiale with a nasty crunch in the front nearside. This had no rust whatsoever - anywhere. The received wisdom in the CCC at the time to explain this was that there was a steel strike in France (French workers on strike??) in 1980 and Citroen sourced steel from India. This was not so good. Certainly it could explain the difference between my 2 cars. I put the Familiale back on the road. My 1984 GTi Turbo had no rust in 1993 so maybe they reverted to the good stuff. I think CXs are fantastic cars and I'm struggling to understand why I don't have one. The 2500 Diesel was pretty good. The Gti was superb. The spherical knights helmet ash tray was always amusing.

[artdjones]

Quick,cover those seats up again,they must be the best original series 1 seats in existence.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

10 minutes ago, Three Speed said:

....The spherical knights helmet ash tray was always amusing.

I thought it was more of a space helmet. They command a premium on their own. The company that made them is still making a similar product.

That reminds me, I have to buy a half-litre of Rustbuster FE-123 and a paintbrush at some point.

[DSdriver]

Looks fantastique. Has it got the revolving speedo and DIRAVI  (self centering) steering? I had a couple of familiale back in the 70's. Wonderful long distance cruisers, MrsDS clocking 300 miles in 3 hours in one of them. With the Diravi steering it was possible to get the car in a parking space only a foot longer than the car which came in handy as it was 16 ft long.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

 

6 minutes ago, DSdriver said:

Looks fantastique. Has it got the revolving speedo and DIRAVI  (self centering) steering? ...

DIRAVI standard by 1978. Will have bathroom scale speedo, but may not have rev counter.

[Saabnut]

Just heard that my friend has bought it for 3k euro plus the CT.

I have called dibs!

[Fumbler]

Top speed on those things is something like 153km/h. The Germans seemed to like it:

So that is definitely a "well bought" from me! Juat look at those seats!

[Zelandeth]

35 minutes ago, Saabnut said:

Just heard that my friend has bought it for 3k euro plus the CT.

I have called dibs!

Bloody bargain!

[lesapandre]

Very nice - looks good with the early bumpers. Plaque in boot looks like it's been cherished and shown at the odd car show. Just needs an autoroute  and Jean Michelle Jarre's Oxygene loud on the cassette player.

[richardmorris]

7 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

In 2008 after running my CX 2.4i petrol Auto for 18 months I decided I liked driving it so much I wanted to do the majority mileage in a CX, but wanted better fuel consumption.

The logical step was to buy a diesel so I did, the fuel consumption improved from 24 mpg petrol to 33 mpg diesel. Trouble was as an early diesel I lost performance compared with my petrol and it had a very narrow power band as well. For me I missed the Auto as well.

Rust is the main enemy, subframe mounting, B pillar to floor plus all the usual places. Hydraulic Citroen's do require a bit of extra maintenance with pipework etc. I also understand the engines can go porous on a diesel and become scrap.

They are great to drive about in, but running a CX of any sort is a commitment in time, money and tracking down parts.

This was my CX25 DTR diesel and I still have my CX2400 I/E Pallas Auto.

 

I did 70,000 miles in my 1986 DTR Turbo 1 and never got less than 45mpg. Was yours a T2 with intercooler?

[Six-cylinder]

1 minute ago, richardmorris said:

I did 70,000 miles in my 1986 DTR Turbo 1 and never got less than 45mpg. Was yours a T2 with intercooler?

I used to have a lead foot, ZX TD 38 mpg now 44 mpg!

[sutty2006]

Even I’ve started liking the CX, and I’m so anti French I’ve gone off berets and smelly cheese! 

[richardmorris]

5 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

I used to have a lead foot, ZX TD 38 mpg now 44 mpg!

I did 300 miles in mine non stop down to burgundy at erm, well say 80-90 ish and still got over 40mpg. I miss that car- I understand from Patrick rugg that some idiot is rebuilding it. Galloping metal moth although the interior and bodywork was like new. I got it to 110 once on the autoroute and it still felt the same as at 70, not even a lot noisier. Max revs then though.