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The Burd's MK1 Golf Rivage - still not fixed 12/10/19

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Back in the 90's when such motors were posh and modern I had a colleague with a scirocco that was forever breaking down or not running right due to injection problems. After keeping breakers rich buying used parts and lots of swearing over a period of several months he eventually found the problem. A rotten filler neck was letting water and dirt into the tank. The rot was in a difficult to access spot right next to the filler cap and in such as a position not to leak fuel while filling or driving but it was letting spray from the wheel in. Just a thought since the fuel in the bottle looks like it came from a pothole in the road.

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Could be worse. Could be Renix.

 

Does sound like all that muck is inside the metering system- all the fine particles that get through the mesh and filter that manage o collect together into little fields of dirt, particularly if the fuel has any water in it- or in the case of this if the water has any fuel in (looking at the bottle of piss you removed from the fuel system). Clean it out and it should run like new-ish again. It's a simple system, which makes it moderately reliable (reliable if it's clean, reliably unreliable if not) at the end of the day.

--Phil

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8 minutes ago, blackboilersuit said:

Back in the 90's when such motors were posh and modern I had a colleague with a scirocco that was forever breaking down or not running right due to injection problems. After keeping breakers rich buying used parts and lots of swearing over a period of several months he eventually found the problem. A rotten filler neck was letting water and dirt into the tank. The rot was in a difficult to access spot right next to the filler cap and in such as a position not to leak fuel while filling or driving but it was letting spray from the wheel in. Just a thought since the fuel in the bottle looks like it came from a pothole in the road.

The car has had a new filter neck - and I have removed most of the guff from the tank. I have a new tank, but fitting it looks a big job, so trying everything before that.

 

Will get the shity fuel drawn out and try running it from a can as I say

6 minutes ago, big_al_granvia said:

Guess what I'm reading:)

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7 minutes ago, PhilA said:

Could be worse. Could be Renix.

 

Does sound like all that muck is inside the metering system- all the fine particles that get through the mesh and filter that manage o collect together into little fields of dirt, particularly if the fuel has any water in it- or in the case of this if the water has any fuel in (looking at the bottle of piss you removed from the fuel system). Clean it out and it should run like new-ish again. It's a simple system, which makes it moderately reliable (reliable if it's clean, reliably unreliable if not) at the end of the day.

--Phil

Any ideas where to start with cleaning it out?

I can see two screws that come out to release the metering head from the base unit, so that should let me get to the fuelling pin.

Removing the fuelling pin would be next, then I wonder if I can flush out the metering head?

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No, I have Renix, which is controlled by the equivalent of an Apple ][ computer and only works if you sacrifice a round of brie to it on a bi-weekly basis

 

I suggest ram a bratwurst down the intake and smother it with sauerkraut.

 

(Otherwise known as a VW injection specialist will be along shortly)

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Drew another 10L of shanner fuel out this today, and noticed that the fuel pumps seemed sporadic. I wonder if the fuel pump relay is shot? A new one is £15 or so, so significantly less than a replacement metering head.

Did some initial investigation/teardown on the metering head.

IMG_20191007_182053.thumb.jpg.ad938a2f8fdf7e6f4c1134798cbd3faa.jpg

I separated the fuel unit from the airbox (6x10mm bolts) as below

IMG_20191007_182418.thumb.jpg.49b030f4f473bb8a9676b0f446784809.jpg

This revealed 2 things :

1. I can't feel any resistance from the metering pin when moving the arm

2. I have no idea how to get the unit off the metal base. I can only see 2 screws, but they seem to hold the unit together. Do I need to undo them to reach the pin? 

 

A video of the pin /arm in action

 

Any help or thoughts would be much appreciated.

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MK1 forum is usually pretty good. I used to ask stuff on there about my old Audi.  They have a couple of VW electrical whisperers on there as well.

Relay/ignition -  Fuse boxes on these are notoriously weak so make sure ALL connections are OK. Check for heating/burn around the plugs on the rear. Good pin connector function guides on the MK1 forum on these as well. Looking at the age of the car you should have the better* mk2 version of the fusebox.

Think you are right track at moment and good perseverance sir!

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Is that the cast iron distribution block on the metering unit? If so, I had one on V8 Merc years ago that had some very odd/mysterious fuelling faults - mainly that it over-fuelled like mad and then failed it's MOT on emissions! The pin inside was well and truly stuck and I had to get a later unit which was an alloy block, then the car ran perfectly. So, I would tentatively say that it is fucked :) but don't take my word for it as I am a well known cock head.

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Yesterday, I went to SVM scrapbits for to procure a part.

Unbeknownst to me, until RML2345 pointed it out, the venerable 740 uses a very similar fuel distribution system.

 

CMS had one on a known working car that was 'aff Tae the bin', so I stripped off the needed part.

IMG_20191011_141236.thumb.jpg.dddff006c0902fbfaa9164ab9a8b2dfd.jpg

IMG_20191011_151214.thumb.jpg.5745b108054b7b1a201ae9420c6f9a84.jpg

The bolt in the second picture was most recalcitrant, and required the application of the "Bus Destination Pole of Justice"

Ably modelled by CMS206

IMG_20191011_151345.thumb.jpg.3b3160605fb9f4e25169f501d2ff0299.jpg

That concluded Fridays efforts.

Saturday update to come.

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So to today.

I started with high hopes

IMG_20191012_125440.thumb.jpg.d6efb80eb505c2d20637dfd627c4f935.jpg

This is the Volvo unit. Despite different part numbers, it has all the ports in the right place and takes the bolts from the golf one no bother.

I got the bolts all swapped over and fitted the unit to the car

IMG_20191012_125618.thumb.jpg.352bec177b40bd4c172709c67f196d55.jpg

You can see how the Volvo bolts look considerably less crusty than the golf ones

IMG_20191012_125819.thumb.jpg.06834a7d9a3ee8b0198cec4ec97caecd.jpg

With it all fitted and tightened up (including injector 4 in a test bottle) ...

IMG_20191012_132657.thumb.jpg.b3ebaf36ab941340aff608e8d7dfbd1e.jpg

 

We got...

 

Nothing.

 

There was no fuel in the test bottle, and I could only hear the pumps running intermittently.

 

Time to turn my attention to the fuel pump relay. Logic being that the metering head needs to be able to provide 75psi to the injectors to get them to open.

The lack of any fuel in the test bottle suggests we are not getting sufficient fuel pressure at the metering head. 

This could be either due to the fuel relay being intermittent, or the main pump not providing pressure.

Tucked up in the passenger footwell, the relay is easy* to reach.

Initial inspection showed signs of rusting - never good

IMG_20191012_134741.thumb.jpg.7fac0f09176607a6daafb29442fd8fb5.jpg

After some gentle persuasion with a screwdriver, the relay was out

IMG_20191012_143247.thumb.jpg.11fa466e8f73a47d40136636db3366f9.jpg

Time to order a new one then.

As a final hurrah, it also decided that it'd like to make some horrible noises when the starter tried to engage..

I think the battery may just be getting tired.

So, where are we?

I'm of the suspicion that:

1. Still have a starter/ignition switch issue

2. The metering head(s) are seeing insufficient fuel pressure to operate.

 

Next step will be seeing about a new relay (possibly even a new fuseboard) and testing that.

I'll likely pull the starter too.

 

Onwards and upwards.

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Bollocks.

The intermittent ignition thing could equally be fuse board related, so if you’ve found evidence of rust there it probably makes sense to start by replacing that, then marvel at how many other things now work better. Hopefully.

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