GingerNuttz Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 It's a shame you're so far away or I'd have joined you on the road to misery and the eventual overdose from welding fumes when you find there's more Dolomite on the floor than attached to the shell... I seem to find welding old shit that should be scrapped very therapeutic for some unknown twisted reason 😂 chodweaver, somewhatfoolish, Bfg and 3 others 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted October 26, 2020 Author Share Posted October 26, 2020 Suffering from either being rundown/exhausted or a low lying cold, I didn't have much energy last week to do anything. Yesterday evening I got a chance to cut off most of the windscreen rubber seal. Quite a satisfying job, especially as I know it leaked badly. There is just enough left on to keep it in until I can get my lovely assistant to give me a hand taking the screen out. I also started drilling the rivets out of this superb previous repair. Got half way through that and decided it probably should wait until I've got the screen off before I pulled those plates completely off! danthecapriman, LightBulbFun, Bfg and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenson Velcro Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 I keep going back to the first page of the thread and looking at the photos. I can’t believe it’s the same car. The rust and bodges are some eye opener. I’m sure you’ll do the car proud and don’t worry about temporary lack of mojo, it’s impossible to keep going at 100% all the time. Remember that this is a hobby and you’re doing it for pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Really coming along with this, enjoying the updates. That screen seal looks grim!! Remember it’s always best to make/have repair sections before cutting any the rusty section out. I’ve got a bead roller and English wheel here if there’s any tricky repair sections you find yourself needing , you’re not that far away 🙂 SiC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 Filler sucks. Found the repair panel join though. Hopefully I can cut this off so a new piece can be fabricated from this. Coprolalia, Jenson Velcro, GingerNuttz and 4 others 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somewhatfoolish Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Wobtastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan302 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 I remember making a filler repair or two when I had my Sprint, I cringe to think about it now 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 This is making for a bittersweet read, the detail and quality of your work is great, it's just a shame that you're having to do it. You rise to the challenge well! Jenson Velcro 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 A few more horror pictures. Cleaned out the lumps of filler from the pillar to see exactly what was going on. The plan is to cut out minimal amounts to get underneath but not compromise the strength of the structure. This isn't too bad. Plan is to square off the edge and weld a replacement section in.The rest of the sill actually is alright. I'll probably run a bead along that edge to be sure. This upper part of the A-Pillar is a patch welded on. I ripped this off with screwdriver, so the welds weren't up to the job. Passenger rear door is a holed messFiller is all in the holes, so someone didn't fix this and just lobbed filler over the top before paint. It's crusty on the inside too. Probably possible to fix this door, but wondering if I'd be better off trying to find a replacement. It's not as if this car hasn't had a replacement door already elsewhere! This is also filled with wax and probably why it's in good condition.Finally I got on with the windscreen/bonnet area. This bit is going to have a new section put in where I've cut out the worst.Passenger side isn't as bad and I'm hoping I can fill this up by bridging the holes with the MIG torch. I was hoping to start welding today but the filler made such a mess, I ended up spending a few hours hoovering. Will be a big moment when fresh metal starts going on this again. Nearly a year since the last lot went in. scdan4, mercedade, Saabnut and 14 others 13 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_70s Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 It looks like the base of the A and B pillar are both double skinned? Weld a bar across the door frames (probs from door latch to around the interior light door switch) and lop it all out, not all at once but pick a section and cut it all away. The A pillar in particular looks bad all the way up under the door hinge, and up at the top where the rain gutter ends it looks like the rot extends out along under the wing. I'd be tempted to cut them off as well in order to actually get at the A pillar and the edges of the bulkhead. This assuming that the sills are at least fairly passable underneath... With that out of the way you'll be able to get a proper look underneath the rot and see if it extends much further, most of these panels look to have rotted from the inside out. It also eliminates the fucking about with trying to weld fresh 1.2mm steel to pressed, marginal, pitted, whatever-the-fuck-mm BL tin. If bits turn out to be passable (like the decent looking B pillar section) you can just weld it back in. With the rot along the middle of the bulkhead where the bonnet sits I'd just cut all that out too and seam weld in a big L piece on to the decent steel at the extremities of where you've ground the paint back. It'd be faster than chasing holes in tinfoil and would be a longer lasting repair. On the rear wheel arch cut out the spot welds and pull it off, even if you're hoping to use it as a template it's no use being on the car. You're going to have to mash the inner arches with a point hammer, especially the leading edge, with the amount of tack welded plates this car has shown so far I'd not be surprised if 1300-esque horrors are lying in wait. This looked fine from the outside of the arch, but it had rotted from the inside due to trapped shit from the bodged outer arches. You've stripped your car down further than I have (mine still has a full interior sans-dash!) so you may as well go to town on it now. Nothing you've uncovered would be massively nightmarish to fabricate but you'll be making your life harder by trying to patch to pitted steel or fill in pinholes in nearly 50 year old metal that wasn't much good to start with... Coprolalia, LightBulbFun, juular and 9 others 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharley17194 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Wow! thats crispy! scdan4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cort16 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Shitting nora you've got your work cut out for you there. There's nothing you can do but unpeel that onion. Can you get panels for the the tricky A and B pillar bits? I don't know if you've seen this guy (he famously restored the SD1 police car basket case) but on the dotty videos (around about 20-25) he tackles a similar B pillar repair to what you're looking at. The good thing about the videos are they're not polished so you genuinely see the the work involved in doing it. https://www.youtube.com/user/nitrosilvia/videos SiC and Dan302 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dome Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Ouch. Nasty. This is exactly what puts me off previously "restored" classics. Lucky you've got @captain_70s and @GingerNuttz to keep you right on this. Deep breath and get into it... juular 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadhg Tiogar Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 4 hours ago, cort16 said: ...There's nothing you can do but unpeel that onion.... ....which will make you cry. motorpunk, Joey spud, RayMK and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorpunk Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Good luck with this. It’s exactly the kind of thread this site was made for. I’m sure your good work will be rewarded in the end. Thanks for sharing your toils! timolloyd, Joey spud, SiC and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 Right! This hole Cut a template to match and transfer onto fresh steel Line it up sorter in the right place Pulled out my old friend Mrs GYS MultiPearl Something Something Synergic MIG welder Lay my first set of welds in well over a year. Looks shit naturally. Got reasonable penetration. Always good when that happens 😁 Also realised I should have cut this off rather than trying to bend it after. Weld the bottom. Looks even crapper. Forgot to take a picture of that, but have another of the backside. I probably should have welded it this side really. Easier to grind the welds and less messy the other side. Put my mate Mr Angry Grinder into action. Messy and noisy but certainly neatened up a job. Didn't quite finish that tonight as I hit my new (wife imposed) 10pm curfew. Gives me a chance to fire watch and write these updates at least. Skizzer, Coprolalia, LightBulbFun and 13 others 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 21 hours ago, captain_70s said: It looks like the base of the A and B pillar are both double skinned? Weld a bar across the door frames (probs from door latch to around the interior light door switch) and lop it all out, not all at once but pick a section and cut it all away. The A pillar in particular looks bad all the way up under the door hinge, and up at the top where the rain gutter ends it looks like the rot extends out along under the wing. I'd be tempted to cut them off as well in order to actually get at the A pillar and the edges of the bulkhead. This assuming that the sills are at least fairly passable underneath... With that out of the way you'll be able to get a proper look underneath the rot and see if it extends much further, most of these panels look to have rotted from the inside out. It also eliminates the fucking about with trying to weld fresh 1.2mm steel to pressed, marginal, pitted, whatever-the-fuck-mm BL tin. If bits turn out to be passable (like the decent looking B pillar section) you can just weld it back in. With the rot along the middle of the bulkhead where the bonnet sits I'd just cut all that out too and seam weld in a big L piece on to the decent steel at the extremities of where you've ground the paint back. It'd be faster than chasing holes in tinfoil and would be a longer lasting repair. On the rear wheel arch cut out the spot welds and pull it off, even if you're hoping to use it as a template it's no use being on the car. You're going to have to mash the inner arches with a point hammer, especially the leading edge, with the amount of tack welded plates this car has shown so far I'd not be surprised if 1300-esque horrors are lying in wait. This looked fine from the outside of the arch, but it had rotted from the inside due to trapped shit from the bodged outer arches. You've stripped your car down further than I have (mine still has a full interior sans-dash!) so you may as well go to town on it now. Nothing you've uncovered would be massively nightmarish to fabricate but you'll be making your life harder by trying to patch to pitted steel or fill in pinholes in nearly 50 year old metal that wasn't much good to start with... I'm currently ignoring the pillars and rear arch. I find it too easy to have a hundred projects but none finished. So I'm trying to go in a progressive order from mid to back. Then deal with the drivers side wing, eyebrows, light mounts and that little hole by the battery last. On that rear arch, looking inside the boot I can see the tack weld pentration marks but no repair panel and plenty of clean steel. I suspect there will be a lot of steel behind that tacked panel. I'm just hoping that dirt and moisture hasn't got in and destroyed it. Would be nice to only do the arch where I need to. However that little surprise will come a fair bit later on. The pillars I don't think will need to be cut out quite that much. Underneath on the double skin section is not in that bad a condition. Despite the pictures, mine does seem in remarkably solid condition. Just a few repair sections that were done badly on the last restoration and caused severe localised deteroriation. Shite Ron and LightBulbFun 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dippy Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Just finished reading this thread from the start, its great to see somebody doing right by a car and not just a quick bodge and move it on. Looking forward to reading the updates. SiC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 I've been debating whether this is the right thing to do. The hole section under the windscreen area has thick steel at the top but then thin at the bottom where water has pooled. I didn't want to cut out the bad bit as it was mostly good metal. As it was an area of flex, I wanted to double skin it. Essentially I have welded a piece of metal to the back side.Then welded on the other side too.I don't want to call it a patch repair but it kinda is. Biggest difference is that I'm welding on both sides, unlike a normal patch. I have debated whether to just cut the area out and have a single piece of metal all the way along. But in my mind, a piece along the back and welded on the front should be stronger. Also made up a few pieces to box in this area once I'm done. I'll need to make a few holes in these so I can get the wax injector pipe in.Also did the old trick of welding up a few of the holes on the A-Pillar. Usually takes a couple of goes of welding it up, grinding back down and welding up any holes that appear or thinness.Ends up looking alrightThis one was a tiny 2mm-ish sized hole, so nice and easy to fill up. The bigger hole to the right is going to need a bit more than that though!So I slowly plod on with this. Main priority is to get all the metal work done first, then go from there. Depending how long that takes, I may put it back in storage after doing that - basically if I'm fed up of working on it and need a break. Also the cost of paint is pretty prohibitively expensive. But then still have a whole lot of mechanical work still to do too. I'm really champing at the bit to start work on this too. Quite interested to seeing how they compare back to back as well! Similar BHP but the E28 weights another 200kg more. It should be less metalwork and more mechanical. So very much a welcome break from that and one project that should be satisfyingly quick to get on the road again. adw1977, spartacus, LightBulbFun and 13 others 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayMK Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 51 minutes ago, SiC said: I've been debating whether this is the right thing to do. The hole section under the windscreen area has thick steel at the top but then thin at the bottom where water has pooled. I didn't want to cut out the bad bit as it was mostly good metal. As it was an area of flex, I wanted to double skin it. Essentially I have welded a piece of metal to the back side. Then welded on the other side too. I don't want to call it a patch repair but it kinda is. Biggest difference is that I'm welding on both sides, unlike a normal patch. I have debated whether to just cut the area out and have a single piece of metal all the way along. But in my mind, a piece along the back and welded on the front should be stronger. Also made up a few pieces to box in this area once I'm done. I'll need to make a few holes in these so I can get the wax injector pipe in. Also did the old trick of welding up a few of the holes on the A-Pillar. Usually takes a couple of goes of welding it up, grinding back down and welding up any holes that appear or thinness. Ends up looking alright This one was a tiny 2mm-ish sized hole, so nice and easy to fill up. The bigger hole to the right is going to need a bit more than that though! So I slowly plod on with this. Main priority is to get all the metal work done first, then go from there. Depending how long that takes, I may put it back in storage after doing that - basically if I'm fed up of working on it and need a break. Also the cost of paint is pretty prohibitively expensive. But then still have a whole lot of mechanical work still to do too. I'm really champing at the bit to start work on this too. Quite interested to seeing how they compare back to back as well! Similar BHP but the E28 weights another 200kg more. It should be less metalwork and more mechanical. So very much a welcome break from that and one project that should be satisfyingly quick to get on the road again. If I could weld, I'd be taking a similar approach. Maintaining morale when taking on these potentially major projects is half the battle. By strengthening the rusty bits whilst also improving it cosmetically you have a better chance of getting to drive it. For me, driving a classic* is the primary objective once it has been made structurally sound and reasonably reliable. Seeking perfection is a laudable aim if you have the time (you have the expertise) but then you'll likely end up with a trailer queen, nervous breakdown or broken marriage and still have a tasty E28 in the queue. Other opinions are available. SiC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplebargeken Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 That rear arch makes me sad. SiC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted December 12, 2020 Author Share Posted December 12, 2020 I took a few days off work to try getting on with this. Exhaustion and burn-out has meant a lot of that time has been spent resting. Anyhow any progress is better than none, so I got on with at least boxing in the windscreen area.That's the only picture I have of the boxing in so far. I've cut other pieces ready and hopefully I'll get a chance soon to put them in too. In the meantime I couldn't resist peaking to see what was going on behind that rear wheel arch panel. Been wanting to do it for ages but held off as I didn't want it to be too bad and be demoralising. But I need to start thinking on what parts needed to be ordered, so I need to remove it and asses the situation. My outlook is nervously optimistic I think is the correct phrase.I mean it looks really bad from the outside.However looking through the boot area looked more promising that there was a lot of good metal there.So there was nothing more to do apart from removing it. I carefully went along with a thin cutting disc grinding off the tack welds. Then further abusing my wood chisel to pop the last bits off.I was left with this.Well that looks not too bad! Almost looks like the same with the panel on. Given how good it is under here, it seems a waste of a rare repair panel to have had welded one over the top of this. But the question is how much of that is filler/paint and how much metal. So out with the wire wheel to leave this...Plenty there left to work with!I then used the finger sander to carefully remove the remains of the tack welds. Unfortunately there are indents from the cutting disc but this is one of those few times that I'm happy to use filler to resolve these imperfections!The wheelarch area inside didn't look too bad initiallyBut after attacking with a grinder, I found a plate welded on badly. The welds were weak enough with little penetration to pull off by handThat bit is a mess and will require a bit of work to fix up. At least it's simple flat shapes and not something that is readily visible.For the repairing the main arch I would like a repair panel. However they appear to be hens teeth. I did manage to snag a nearside panel (thanks Captain70s for the heads up!) but the offside had already sold before I got a chance to buy that too. However the damage doesn't look much more than what can be fixed up with the club repair panels. With this arch lip repair pieceAnd this rear wing repair panel. The rear wing might have enough left to be simple enough to fix with just some bent flat steel.So all in, I'm quite happy with that rear arch. Could have be so much worse. Inner arch is pretty much all there too, with a few thin areas on the edge and another repair patch at the base of the arch. That repair patch seems done a longer while back and still seems very solid. spartacus, timolloyd, Tickman and 22 others 24 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorpunk Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 Fantastic! It’s a big enough job without photographing and documenting it all for us shiters to enjoy. Keep it up 👍 Jenson Velcro 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted December 12, 2020 Author Share Posted December 12, 2020 11 minutes ago, motorpunk said: Fantastic! It’s a big enough job without photographing and documenting it all for us shiters to enjoy. Keep it up 👍 I've always struggled to get a good picture of bodywork. Rust ends up looking way worse and shiny clean metal doesn't show much definition. I think the lighting and background isn't the best but struggle to think how I could improve it from what I've got. Maybe some fancy filters on a lens would help, but all my photos end up just being ones from my phone. Anything much more would be too much hassle I think. Work flow is basically grab my phone every so often after doing a bit, snap a couple of pics and then before bed/morning do a write up on Tapatalk. Tickman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 I appreciate it's still a fair amount of work but that looks like a result on the arch, you must have been pleased when you saw what was under the repair panel. SiC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted December 21, 2020 Author Share Posted December 21, 2020 Nearly done the windscreen areaJust this little bit leftThis is just yesterday evenings worth of grinding dust HMC, GrumpiusMaximus, Shite Ron and 13 others 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted December 21, 2020 Author Share Posted December 21, 2020 Last bit of metal to go in on the windscreen/dash area. Thank god. You're upside down, on a cold metal sloping surface with welding sparks falling down on you. Also makes the top of the welds look shit as gravity pulls the weld pool downwards. Still got to grind it down too which is even more unpleasant as you have red hot iron filings being flung out at you. You try to be on the bottom side of the grinder as less sparks but they're still falling downwards thanks to gravity. What you see above is two hours of work... Make a template out of card/thick paper Cut template to shape Transfer to metal Cut metal with cutting disc Shape metal with flap disc Clean up metal Offer up metal to body Reshape metal to fit some more because you cut out on the wrong side of the line Repeat the last two a couple of times Attempt to align the metal in place while fixing into place with magnets Swear when the magnets and the carefully aligned metal falls onto your face when you let go Put magnets back on but with a wedge to try stopping them falling off again Tack into place while using a screwdriver/hammer to keep pressure on area lined up Weld between tacks Use air to put out the nearby underseal that's now on fire Move out of the area because the underseal fumes are wrank and can't be good for your health Put respirator on Weld some more Use air line to try removing condensation from inside your helmet thanks to the respirator Start welding again but through fog Swear and do a dance because a hot molten ball of weld has just gone through your Sketchers/inappropriate footwear Do the above for an hour Finally sigh at the awful looking welds in the knowledge they'll look respectable once you've run the flap disc over them and also appreciate you don't do this for a day job Tickman, GingerNuttz, spartacus and 13 others 14 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimad5 Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 Cracking progress SiC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted December 26, 2020 Author Share Posted December 26, 2020 Finished welding and linishing them.Then painted. Rather hard in this cold weather, especially when your heater is broken. Ended up using my heatgun to try getting the metal up to temperature. Worked alright until it sucked up a load of grinding dust... Produces quite a spectacular shower of sparks!Glad to get that bit done. Next up is the A-Pillar. Two areas, first around the door near windscreen area and then at the bottom of the A-Pillar. This is a much smaller area but going to be fiddly. In other news, I saw a offside rear arch panel and decided that would make my life massively easier fixing that arch. Unfortunately someone else must have thought the same thing on theirs, so ended up spending quite a lot and far more than I wanted to. BUT it should massively speed up and improve the outcome. If I don't cock up attaching it.Wish these were readily available and in current production. uk_senator, worldofceri, RayMK and 9 others 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplebargeken Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 How much? Eeeeek. SiC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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