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Fumbler's Crocks- Boring Oil Change


Fumbler

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14 minutes ago, Fumbler said:

Brilliant. I was wondering what those letters were actually for.

If you're unlucky, the code might have been rubbed off. If it's not on the top of the inner wing on that side, it should be on the other. On the CX it was hand-painted in a yellow/black mix. Not sure if the BX was the same.

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Bit the bullet and bought two BF Goodrich G-Grip all season tyres. They should be delivered at some point next week. When Payday comes around again I'll order a further three for the rear and spare.

 

In the meantime, I have these BX parts that I'm selling:
PXL_20210403_150201199.thumb.jpg.72c430c96477ddf5af841223f2556439.jpgPXL_20210403_150206122.thumb.jpg.9ffffc717ff85da7a6eff38f58a76d8a.jpgPXL_20210403_150216456.thumb.jpg.4e9ddd06e34d45af0d864f9ddd4dd5e4.jpgPXL_20210403_150222359.thumb.jpg.672adfec9325ba6e1c1557946415df65.jpgPXL_20210403_150443281.thumb.jpg.57cce769504fe90bfda301f4cfad4aea.jpgPXL_20210403_150437126.thumb.jpg.929a995c576bd747657bf6734bbc4a3a.jpg

Starting from the top left:

  • Intake hose and airbox from a larger engine
  • Rigid intake hose
  • Grille
  • Diesel (?) grille
  • Unpainted spoiler in packaging
  • Red spoiler

At some point I shall make a for sale thread and give them a price. Truth be told, I don't know what these things should appropriately cost, but every penny will help make my wallet happier after ordering those tyres.

Edit: I am also looking for some parts, namely a wheel brace and spare wheel carrier. Hit me up if any of you happen to know where I should be looking to get them.

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3 minutes ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

Wonder if that air box would fit into the space of the CX one?

It may but I'm unsure: from the basic drawings of the BX owner's manual, it looks like it fits the standard 1500-1900CC petrol engines.

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14 minutes ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

I'm looking at plastic replacement candidates so I can sack off the corroded metal one

Looking at engine bay pictures, I'm wondering if it'd fit in the space the present air box does. It might do with some modification, however.

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29 minutes ago, Fumbler said:

Bit the bullet and bought two BF Goodrich G-Grip all season tyres. They should be delivered at some point next week. When Payday comes around again I'll order a further three for the rear and spare.

I know its counter-intutive, but since we're not yet out of rainy season here in the UK I'd really suggest fitting the new rubber to the rear end of the car first.

I say this, having fitted a pair of less shite tyres to the front end of a Mk3 golf - itself no paragon of handling - on the basis that the front did the power, braking and steering - so WTF would you fit the new tyres to the other end that basically exists to stop the rear end scraping down the road?

right up to the point the rear end got away from me at 20mph round a wet roundabout at 11pm one night.

I then needed 3 new tyres, 2 for the rear end, and 1 more to replace the front tyre which mounted the kerb in the centre of the roundabout, taking a massive chunk out the sidewall.

I know I sound like a boring old fart, but honestly, understeer is WAY safer and more predictable than oversteer in a FWD car.

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4 minutes ago, Stanky said:

I know its counter-intutive, but since we're not yet out of rainy season here in the UK I'd really suggest fitting the new rubber to the rear end of the car first.

I say this, having fitted a pair of less shite tyres to the front end of a Mk3 golf - itself no paragon of handling - on the basis that the front did the power, braking and steering - so WTF would you fit the new tyres to the other end that basically exists to stop the rear end scraping down the road?

right up to the point the rear end got away from me at 20mph round a wet roundabout at 11pm one night.

I then needed 3 new tyres, 2 for the rear end, and 1 more to replace the front tyre which mounted the kerb in the centre of the roundabout, taking a massive chunk out the sidewall.

I know I sound like a boring old fart, but honestly, understeer is WAY safer and more predictable than oversteer in a FWD car.

Indeed, it had crossed my mind to fit these to the rear. I'll ask the friendly tyre people on the estate to put the rear tyres on the front and the new ones on the rear. At the same time, I'll remove the wheeltrims so I can repaint them and the wheels themselves.

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Do, seriously - you're also more aware of the fact the front ones are older, so drive accordingly. 2 more identical to the new rear ones on payday too.

Just like Gran Turismo, tyres are the best investment in a secondhand car you can buy.

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4 minutes ago, Stanky said:

Do, seriously - you're also more aware of the fact the front ones are older, so drive accordingly. 2 more identical to the new rear ones on payday too.

Just like Gran Turismo, tyres are the best investment in a secondhand car you can buy.

Which is exactly what I'm doing. My current biggest fear is those tyres. I was rather hoping I could drive to work in it for a few days next week but, alas, I'm not comfortable driving any measurable distance with them on. The rears are Michelins, much like the spares I have, and while old, are in far, far better condition. Good tread but old so, as you say, I'll be ordering new tyres immediately when I get paid.

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On dry roads they'll be fine, that was probably my undoing years ago! Also 90s Pirelli tyres had/have a bit of a reputation for appalling roadholding in the wet, which more than likely contributed to the whole debacle.

Don't mean to sound like a tyre Nazi, its your car you can do what you like! Having learned by bitter experience though, the best 'mod' for power, handling and braking has been to spend £200 (or less) on 4 decent tyres. 100% of my accidents to date over nearly 20 years of driving would not have happened had I spent a few quid on tyres.

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1 minute ago, Stanky said:

On dry roads they'll be fine, that was probably my undoing years ago! Also 90s Pirelli tyres had/have a bit of a reputation for appalling roadholding in the wet, which more than likely contributed to the whole debacle.

Don't mean to sound like a tyre Nazi, its your car you can do what you like! Having learned by bitter experience though, the best 'mod' for power, handling and braking has been to spend £200 (or less) on 4 decent tyres. 100% of my accidents to date over nearly 20 years of driving would not have happened had I spent a few quid on tyres.

Don't worry about it, Sensible Me (which, as you can see through the car's existence, I've had gagged for a while) got in touch and said that I really should Just Invest™ in some good new tyres to get these horrid things off the road. I'm not intending on (just yet) driving it in the dark or in the rain until I feel safe when at the wheel; That's what the Micra is for. I'm treating this as a fun -if expensive and nearly completely sensless!- project.

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On 4/2/2021 at 8:17 PM, Fumbler said:

AH! I have one of those in the bootful of spares. Interestingly enough, the final third of the switch now operates the blower after I twiddled it from off to full a couple of times. I think dirty contacts are still a culprit, but I'll not rule one of these out yet.

It'll be the contacts on the dial from your symptoms. No blower is either a poor contact to the transistor case from the thermal fuse disc, or commonly a loss of earth to the heater dial PCB - but seeing as you have some functionality it'll be worn or hopefully just dirty tracks.

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Believe it or not, there is a design mistake in these Mk. 2 BXs and Citroen screwed up the circuitry so full fan speed cannot be achieved. 
 

This isn’t your case here, but when you have the heater control panel open to clean your tracks, you can do the mod to restore full fan speed as demisting is poor without it!

Details on BXClub forum.

https://bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5515

It might be quiet but lots of good stuff is archived and if you are stuck those with brains are still there and will pipe up to help. 
 

I’m usually a believer in replacing tyres on the rear first, then rotating to the front in usual circumstances to avoid the rears getting old. But in your case, I think I’d prefer the wheels doing the braking to have the grip on the wet. OMG can a non-ABS BX lock its wheels up... they have stronger brakes than anything you will have driven. By the time your brain appreciates this for the first time, you will be sliding for a few seconds on to the back of a lorry. I had a narrow escape on a recommissioned BX with exactly this and it wasn’t a high speed stop required but following in slow traffic when I got distracted for like a second and didn’t see that the lorry had brakes again. 
 

I can’t wait for you to get out there and enjoy it. It was a few years ago but I did 600 miles in a day my 1.4 BX with a funeral in the middle. No car, even my C6, was as comfortable or relaxing— maybe the XM.  
 

Rustproof and use as a daily? 

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10 hours ago, mat_the_cat said:

It'll be the contacts on the dial from your symptoms. No blower is either a poor contact to the transistor case from the thermal fuse disc, or commonly a loss of earth to the heater dial PCB - but seeing as you have some functionality it'll be worn or hopefully just dirty tracks.

And contacts it was. It works pretty well now, but I'll probably persue the heater mod @jamescarruthershas posted because it's a bit feeble on full blast.

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5 hours ago, jamescarruthers said:

Believe it or not, there is a design mistake in these Mk. 2 BXs and Citroen screwed up the circuitry so full fan speed cannot be achieved. 
 

This isn’t your case here, but when you have the heater control panel open to clean your tracks, you can do the mod to restore full fan speed as demisting is poor without it!

Details on BXClub forum.

https://bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5515

It might be quiet but lots of good stuff is archived and if you are stuck those with brains are still there and will pipe up to help. 
 

I’m usually a believer in replacing tyres on the rear first, then rotating to the front in usual circumstances to avoid the rears getting old. But in your case, I think I’d prefer the wheels doing the braking to have the grip on the wet. OMG can a non-ABS BX lock its wheels up... they have stronger brakes than anything you will have driven. By the time your brain appreciates this for the first time, you will be sliding for a few seconds on to the back of a lorry. I had a narrow escape on a recommissioned BX with exactly this and it wasn’t a high speed stop required but following in slow traffic when I got distracted for like a second and didn’t see that the lorry had brakes again. 
 

I can’t wait for you to get out there and enjoy it. It was a few years ago but I did 600 miles in a day my 1.4 BX with a funeral in the middle. No car, even my C6, was as comfortable or relaxing— maybe the XM.  
 

Rustproof and use as a daily? 

Micra is still my daily at the moment, it certainly will be during this winter, too. Along with the rustproofing I want to do to the BX, I need to find some bits for it, take the wings off and weld a hole, fix the idle mixture, make the front bumper a bit more presentable and refurbish the wheels. By contrast, the Micra needs a hole in the sill welded up, front brakes needing a look at and the wheels repainting. Once my snagging list becomes smaller it'll be a most excellent veehickle as they say.

When I have the gumption, I'm definitely trying out that heater mod on the BX forum. It's pretty easy to do as well, which is a bonus!

4 hours ago, Sunny Jim said:

Table of BX carburetor types - from a Hungarian site which can be a good source of technical info.

Thanks for that! In addition to this, I got an Easter present containing two manuals for the petrol BX, which has confirmed that I have a Solex 34 PBISA. A very, very helpful website.

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Cool.

I have only set up one carburettor and realised I had a choice between CO content, but modern fuel makes this hard to meet older targets, and a glass spark plug. For me the plug was the only choice as I didn’t have the experience to do it by ear or whatever the pros do and I had no idea how long it would take a first timer to do it right while paying for a garage to let me use their CO meter!
 

The glass spark plug was amazing! You can see the flame inside the engine and my old Renault Master ran very nicely after this once I had it set up right. 
 

Gunson Colortune https://www.gunson.co.uk/products/Colortunehttps://www.gunson.co.uk/products/Colortune

Check all your vacuum lines for leaks, the carburettor  may be set up fine but just suffering from perished stuff affecting running. Hopefully your Haynes book tells you how to set it up nicely.  

Also, blow in to the vacuum line that goes to the vacuum advance on your distributor— these can fail, there should be some resistance, if there is none the diaphragm needs replaced. It will run fine without vac. advance, you just won’t have that low down advance for around town and initial acceleration. 
 

The TU engine in a BX is a lovely little zippy thing.  Read the handbook about how to start it when hot and cold as there is a difference I think. 

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22 minutes ago, jamescarruthers said:

Check all your vacuum lines for leaks, the carburettor  may be set up fine but just suffering from perished stuff affecting running. Hopefully your Haynes book tells you how to set it up nicely.  

Also, blow in to the vacuum line that goes to the vacuum advance on your distributor— these can fail, there should be some resistance, if there is none the diaphragm needs replaced. It will run fine without vac. advance, you just won’t have that low down advance for around town and acceleration. 
 

Ah yes, this is what I'll do first before fiddling with the fuel stuff. There is a stub of a line which is plugged right now- it faces the front of the car:-
image.thumb.png.575a3556d0301e724f2386ade28ab256.png

The distributor is camshaft driven meaning it'll be under the coil... I see no hoses going in that general direction. Along with the engine rebuild, the engine electrics and vacuum system was reconditioned too, but it'll be good to check. There's always the possibility of a leak at the carburettor gasket so I'll test for that at the same time.

 

Smol edit- date code was 4393 which corresponds to a date of 18th November 1988. Fascinating. I've also had a look through the rebuild photos and the carburettor has been off the intake manifold and has also been split in half, however, it looks as if the gaskets have been reused. I'll send a message to the PO regarding the idle issue as it was he which did the work on the engine in its entirety.

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That is odd, I think they all have it. Maybe your previous owner knew there was a hole in the diaphragm and has blanked off the pipe to prevent a vacuum leak to the car? 
 

I can’t remember off hand what it should be like now as it’s been so long. 
 

A quick search on BX Club has your distributor as Bosch part number 0237009618

It can be seen here: https://www.ignitioncarparts.co.uk/PartDetails.aspx?s_pc=PDD7163&s_vid=

image.thumb.jpeg.34d2090eddca7cbadd1e4f04a5dc841c.jpeg

It’s the piece on the top. 
 

Does this look similar to your car?

 

This will be a nice win for driveability I’m sure if it does need replaced. 

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1 minute ago, jamescarruthers said:

That is odd, I think they all have it. Maybe your previous owner knew there was a hole in the diaphragm and has blanked off the pipe to prevent a vacuum leak to the car? 
 

I can’t remember off hand what it should be like now as it’s been so long. 
 

A quick search on BX Club has your distributor as Bosch part number 0237009618

It can be seen here: https://www.ignitioncarparts.co.uk/PartDetails.aspx?s_pc=PDD7163&s_vid=

image.thumb.jpeg.34d2090eddca7cbadd1e4f04a5dc841c.jpeg

It’s the piece on the top. 
 

Does this look similar to your car?

 

This will be a nice win for driveability I’m sure if it does need replaced. 

From the pictures I have, the distributor rotor and cap were replaced. It's highly likely the vac advance diaphragm is original and knackered. I'll investigate.

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38 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

For the idle issue it's most likely crud in the idle jet.

First though make sure that the solenoid on the carb is still connected (it's easy to snag the wire when working in the area).

Will do. How easy is removal of the jet? I doubt it'll be a quick job for someone with my limited experience

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51 minutes ago, Fumbler said:

Will do. How easy is removal of the jet? I doubt it'll be a quick job for someone with my limited experience

 

Before you start pulling things apart though do try to find a diagram, not least so you can find the idle mixture screw.  Worth trying turning that a turn or two in either direction to see if it changes things, as it's possible someone has just blindly twiddled things in the past.  Obviously keep a note of how far you've moved things so you can return to where you started.  There is usually an idle speed adjustment somewhere too, which may just need a tweak. 

Does the car make any effort to idle?  Or does it just die immediately once you come off the throttle?  If it does try to idle at all you might be lucky and the idle speed is just set too slow.

Most likely there is gunk in it...but worth checking those things first.

Bit hard to say without seeing the carb, but most carbs of that type aren't too bad to get into.  Usually four or six screws and a bit of fermangling the choke linkage into the right place will get the top of the carb free, just try not to tear the gasket.  Then most things are usually reasonably accessible - if you find which carb it is there will be an exploded diagram somewhere.   Just be methodical, keep your workspace clear and do things one at a time and you'll likely be fine. 

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1 minute ago, Zelandeth said:

 

Before you start pulling things apart though do try to find a diagram, not least so you can find the idle mixture screw.  Worth trying turning that a turn or two in either direction to see if it changes things, as it's possible someone has just blindly twiddled things in the past.  Obviously keep a note of how far you've moved things so you can return to where you started.  There is usually an idle speed adjustment somewhere too, which may just need a tweak. 

Does the car make any effort to idle?  Or does it just die immediately once you come off the throttle?  If it does try to idle at all you might be lucky and the idle speed is just set too slow.

Most likely there is gunk in it...but worth checking those things first.

Bit hard to say without seeing the carb, but most carbs of that type aren't too bad to get into.  Usually four or six screws and a bit of fermangling the choke linkage into the right place will get the top of the carb free, just try not to tear the gasket.  Then most things are usually reasonably accessible - if you find which carb it is there will be an exploded diagram somewhere.   Just be methodical, keep your workspace clear and do things one at a time and you'll likely be fine. 

So far, the PO has sent me a sheet for a Weber carburettor, however the pictures I have and looking at the car shows that it's a Solex PBISA 17, with which there is barely any literature I can find.

What happens is that it's trying to idle but it bogs down and stalls. I have to engage the choke to keep it running. Here are some rebuild pictures to help with things:
image.thumb.png.2d5865e1cb9233877c3f3b74e0bc1be0.pngimage.thumb.png.fccbd5c994acbb275d3de641df09152a.pngimage.thumb.png.86310541cd2abe80c8e28420912611cf.pngimage.thumb.png.4256c038b1b836b4a9b0e272243629ba.pngimage.thumb.png.08c50e90dc7031252b60cac3dfd46026.png

This indicates that it's been split in half and also separated from the intake manifold. Some tuning must have happened to get it at least running and MoT'd but I don't think any exact fine tuning has been performed. The carburettor, as it currently stands, has been degreased and cleaned. It looks a lot cleaner than in the pictures.

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Very different carb to mine sadly so I can't make any direct comparisons sadly. 

Can you bring the idle back to a sensible level by applying a tiny amount of throttle?  Or does it have to be via the choke?

I'd probably start by just trying the simple approach and trying to bring the idle speed up using the idle speed screw and seeing if that helps.  If I'm understanding what I'm looking at correctly, it's the screw with a spring under it just above 6 o'clock in the last photo.  All that does essentially is crack the throttle open very slightly.

If that works to a point but the idle is still very rough it will tend to indicate that the idle circuit is blocked and the engine is running purely on what dregs it can pull through from the main circuit. 

It's one of those those things that's quite difficult to diagnose remotely, had hoped it would be a carb I know, sadly it's not!

Quite surprised to see it's only a single barrel carb though, my 14RE has a twin choke one, albeit with the earlier suitcase engine.

IMG_20210225_142342.thumb.jpg.ef65a60ab497e910ce00d2b8d2a98fdf.jpg

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45 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Very different carb to mine sadly so I can't make any direct comparisons sadly. 

Can you bring the idle back to a sensible level by applying a tiny amount of throttle?  Or does it have to be via the choke?

I'd probably start by just trying the simple approach and trying to bring the idle speed up using the idle speed screw and seeing if that helps.  If I'm understanding what I'm looking at correctly, it's the screw with a spring under it just above 6 o'clock in the last photo.  All that does essentially is crack the throttle open very slightly.

If that works to a point but the idle is still very rough it will tend to indicate that the idle circuit is blocked and the engine is running purely on what dregs it can pull through from the main circuit. 

It's one of those those things that's quite difficult to diagnose remotely, had hoped it would be a carb I know, sadly it's not!

Quite surprised to see it's only a single barrel carb though, my 14RE has a twin choke one, albeit with the earlier suitcase engine.

IMG_20210225_142342.thumb.jpg.ef65a60ab497e910ce00d2b8d2a98fdf.jpg

Indeed the Suitcase engine has twin choke carburettor- my car missed having the suitcase engine by a matter of months by the looks of things!

I have here some more pictures of the carburettor in situ-
PXL_20210404_171245044.thumb.jpg.35906a0644783905e1aa9f19826e50b7.jpg
Your assumption of the idle set screw is correct by the looks of things. @jamescarrutherswill be glad to know the vacuum advance is indeed plugged in and the blanked off pipe is something to do with the crankcase breather assembly.
Here's the amount of choke required to make it actually run-
PXL_20210404_171401283.thumb.jpg.4f1c726eccb444f6413ed86259c83d2b.jpg

And a video of the idle speed with the choke on, and slowly removing the choke until it tries to run and then stalls (engine was at temperature or thereabouts)-

 

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