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75 or 406?


barefoot

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With the Jaguar gone to pastures new, it's time for me to be looking for a different motor car. I have always owned German cars, so the XJ-8 was a real eye opener to me, and it was followed almost immediately by a Vel Satis, an actual voiture. I learned something else from these cars; saloon cars are not a deal of use when you have a dog to go in the back. I also learned that I've had enough of Andrew Sachs boxes and big engines really are quite thirsty with the kind of use I make of cars. I really enjoyed the smooth ride and  the silence (in comparison to a 944/Scirocco) and the air conditioning.

So, I have initially narrowed my search down to either a Rover 75 Tourer or a Peugeot 406 estate. I've spent a bit of time looking and wonder if the versions that I want actually exist. For example, I would like a turbo kettle 75 with a Bader box in Connoisseur SE - does that even exist? I appreciate that it'll have to be a later example to get the K series. Automatic estates seem thin on the ground, unless I choose a diesel. I've never had an oil burner and suspect that now is not the best time to try one, or is it? Similarly I'd like an 1,800 petrol automatic 406 estate with some luxury toys and again, the only ones I'm finding at the mo are diesels.

Any help or advice (or anyone flogging exactly what I'm after)  will be much appreciated.

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I would say 75, having owned examples of both.  The Rover is better built and overall a more pleasant place to be, and just as comfortable as a 406.  Doesn't handle quite as well but is still perfectly decent.  Smaller boot though if that's a consideration.

I'm not sure if the 1.8 turbokettle is available as an auto, but it is a decent engine while it lasts - a lot more suited to the car than the previous 2.0 V6, which you had to rev the knackers off to get it moving.  2.5 V6 is a nice engine, and not as far behind the 1.8 in terms of economy as you might expect.

The diesel isn't bad, but obvs not as refined as the petrols, and not the most efficient of engines either.  Also you won't be able to drive them into London soon, if that is an issue.  I still love mine though - one of the most competent all-round cars I've ever owned.

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A 2 litre 406 would work.

I'm not as bothered about handling as I once was, I have a 944 and there's not many cars that handle as well as that, besides I'm getting older and feel the urge to waft, but cheaply!

Driving into London is of no concern to me!

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406 Auto estate is a nice comfortable thing, but don't know why you would choose the 1.8 version, it's a terrible combination.  The 2.0 is only just about man enough to haul it about, especially with auto box.  Post 1999 silver top 2.0 petrols are better than earlier ones, and the AL4 French auto box isn't known for its durability.  They're getting very scarce now anyway, mainly diesels left.

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I've got a 75 diesel manual Tourer.  Wanted an auto, but you can't have everything.  

It's been very good, coming up for third MOT now, we will see. If it needs more than £500 spending, it's scrap.  I haven't told it yet!

All I've spent is rear brake discs,  front bottom arm and a couple of brake pipes.

I avoided the petrol versions because, belts, cooling problems, fuel consumption. If I had unlimited funds I'd buy one.

One with all the toys is nice, but more to go wrong. Most of them are rusty now, rear sills, rear suspension arms....

Very good ones are expensive, but probably worth it.

You do get bargains at times on the Rover 75/ZT site.

Edit, clutches are expensive, and cause many to be scrapped. Possibly worth buying one and fitting a clutch.

Auto should* be cheaper in the long run. 

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I'd highly recommend a diesel 75 I have had 2. 45 mpg for a manual and as long as the HP diesel pump is OK, the M47R engine is unbreakable.  The unit suffers from none of the usual modern diesel woes of injectors, timing chains, DMF, glow plugs and turbo seals. All will last pretty much indefinitely. Just make sure that the clutch and rear suspension arms are decent as they can be pricey (but not cripplingl to replace). I simply cannot see past them and will have another before cheap ones are no more. There is also a great enthusiast support network.

Unfortunately, outside of that, you will get people who will tell you that your car is crap or simply ignore you. Been there, never cared.

I haven't driven or owned a 406 and I am sure they are competent though.

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Rover 75. I’d go for the diesel if possible, don’t pay too much for one as they aren’t worth a light unless it’s something really special like a V8. Be prepared to give it a one way ticket when something big goes. You should then get a bit back breaking it. 

 

406 a nice car but most left are absolutely hanging. 

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I’ve had a brace of 75s. Buy the absolute best you can afford and try and get a cherished one from the forum or from a specialist. 

The 1.8 NA I had was shit. 1.8T was brilliant and the 2.5 was brilliant. 

As discussed there are very few minters left - and even if you buy one it’ll need work soon enough. JFDI. 

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I never loved my 406. It was an good car, fairly fast, didnt go wrong (until I tried to fix it) and fairly economical (46mpg average from the 2.0HDi 110 on my normal non hooney commute). But I sat on the front seats rather than in them... it just didn't feel 'nice', the Xantia and XM were much nicer places to be, the 406 felt like an older car that just had a numberplate from 2002 on, you may as well have an early pre-facelift before they stripped all the comfort out of the thing

Obv their good, so don't discount one but I'd have a 75 just from what I've heard about what they feel like, i've never actually sat in one ever...

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Durability wise though a 406 all the way, the interior falls to bits and the sills rot like fuck in the middle but the HDI keeps trucking on. That’s why there’s so few left, any decent ones got cabbed. If I could find a good 406 2.0 90 HDI I’d have one if it was an Estate. 

 

Have you thought of a 407 SW? Not half as bad as reputation would suggest, expect a few minor electrical faults but the 2.0 HDI is decent, apart from the 1.6 HDI that is. There’s loads round the thousand quid mark, arguably a better choice than a clapped out 406. A slipping clutch is a game over job mind so make sure that and the DMF has some life in it. 

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75s are absolute shit. They're claustrophobic, they don't drive all that well, they all seem to smell, manual ones are plain horrible and the auto ones are merely tolerable. V6s make a nice noise but don't seem to actually do much. My 73-year old ex gaffer had six of them at one point and all the current ones (three I think) he's had chipped to 160bhp as he's scared he'll get done for loitering. He loves them, I hate them.

I've had two 406s, both diesels. Pre facelift 2.1DT for me please.

 

Oddly both have the same issue - the sills rot out about half way along the back doors.

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When you think back though they were so wide of the mark with the 75, they ought to have launched it as the MG ZT. The concept it was going to compete with the 3 series and the new Audi A4 was laughable in hindsight. The fact they’re a bit cack doesn’t really matter at a few hundred quid or so, it’s an experience. 

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Biggest headache with the 406 is finding an estate that's not been worked hard for the last 250K miles. 

 

IF you can find a decent one though I'd say 406 all day long.  The Rover is a more plush car, but the 406 is probably easier to live with long term.  The likely gremlins you'll run into are well documented and generally easy enough to sort.  Only gripe is that PSA are crap about providing legacy parts support - there are enough still out there though unless you're looking for bits specific to a V6 example you shouldn't have much to worry about.

People seem to love to say all French cars are fragile...they aren't.  Renaults I'd say are more so than Peugeots or Citroens by quite a ways.  Xantias and 406s (same floorpan) are very competent and if looked after can be utterly reliable.

Heart would say Rover, but head says Pug if you ask me.

Looking for an estate at this sort of age though, it's most likely to be a case of what you can find in the best condition rather than what you're actually looking for.

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A big thanks for all of your input so far, a couple of polemic cars then?

Opinions aside, it would appear from reading all this, that the 406 is considered the better driving & handling car, whereas the 75 is the better wafter. It's also thought to be better built and a nicer place to sit for a long time. My engine choice doesn't appear to have gone down too well, looks like my rejection of the larger capacity lumps on account of the Jaguar's thirst may be misplaced. It's a shame that the 2 litre KV6 is so totally torque free. 

My choice has been narrowed down therefore to an automatic 75 tourer, in either 2.5 litre V6 or diesel flavour.

My 944 is a 2.5 litre four pot and consistently achieves 29mpg, I am led to believe that the KV6 will do a bit more than this on a decent run?

Diesel or V6 - what would you all suggest?

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I found my 75 Connoisseur annoyingly uncomfortable on long trips. My 45 V6 was sluggish enough. The idea of a 2-litre V6 in a 75 is truly terrifying. You'd get overtaken by pedestrians.

Diesel will do 50mpg. Given my Rover V6 experiences, I think topping 30mpg might be a struggle, even on a run. Whereas, I think a 406 V6 would manage it fairly easily. Those ES9 V6 engines are great (the automatic transmissions rather less so).

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