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sierraman

eBay Ringing Kits

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On a few other forums I’ve seen about the proliferation of eBay listings selling old VIN tags and ‘live’ DVLA listings for obviously dead stuff effectively listed for the purposes of ringing. 

 

Ebay turn a blind eye to this despite many many people reporting what’s going on. I’m aware on here there’s a few that write from time to time in the motoring press, would they be open to the prospect of persuading one of the titles to expose this in an article? Might be exposure enough to persuade EBay to delete the adverts and make the cretins who pinch people’s cars life a bit harder? 

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33 minutes ago, sheffcortinacentre said:

eBay etc are only interested in profit so will never stop this or the fake listings. Save your breath & sanity.

The suggestion was to out them in national media of some sort, hopefully generating enough bad publicity to affect, or potentially affect, their profit. 

Minis/old Ford's/series Land Rovers have a big enough following to make that work. 

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I know they’re a set of greedy bastards. It’s tantamount to fraud though what people are doing on there. Why on earth would someone legitimately pay £10,000 for a V5 bit of paper for a car that does not in a material sense exist anymore other than to ring it. 

 

I read one ad and it went along the lines of ‘absolute discretion assured of any potential buyers’

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this thread 

covers it also.

I find that recording the plate/vin etc a load of times helps it to respond to a search engine request. such as

ebay couldn't give a toss

dvla couldn't care less if they tried

Pohleece say no crime has been committed

Sometimes the seller is so fucking greedy they display the v5c doc reference at which point the vehicle could rightly be reported as scrapped etc. I have never done this but have been very tempted

 

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22 hours ago, sierraman said:

Might be exposure enough to persuade EBay to delete the adverts and make the cretins who pinch people’s cars life a bit harder? 

Sadly nothing short of legislation would be enough to make eBay care about anything other than their bottom line. For a while, whenever I saw one of these ads I would routinely report them. Never once did this result in the ad being pulled, and I stopped bothering.

 

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31 minutes ago, Tamworthbay said:

eBay are money grabbing arseholes, no more, no less.

 

It's all this unfortunately. 

 

We've been watching Joe Lycet's recent show which is basically a comedy with watchdog thrown in. The big difference to watchdog isn't however the jokes, it's just now no company even pretends to care. 

Especially when the biggest earners are just creaming profits off as the middleman so never actually get their hands dirty. 

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I think the sellers of the V5s etc need arresting and charging, and ebay also dragged in to the chain of prosecuting for aiding and abetting. Quite a few Lannies and Minis have been seized in Septicland where they have found to be fraudulent, and instead of returning them to the UK, they crush them. I think as part of the process, they should chuck the scum involved in the crusher at the same time. Sadly I was involved with someone ringing hooky cars when I was a teen, I was a valeter for a 'home seller' of used motors, and was paid very well, quite a few Cossies went through him, including a few cut n shuts, he taught me to drive aged 13 in some pretty tasty motors. H did end up doing time when his gaff was raided not long after he kicked his wife out. 

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"there’s a few that write from time to time in the motoring press,"

 

...I'll probably get a roasting over what comes next here;

Years ago I used to buy that Practical Classis (and car restorer) - I think it was an early MG roadster they bought that was 'dust bin n brush' territory, and they had a specialist buy a heritage shell; the hertitage shell was a 'later pressing' and the series documented how they modded stuff like door handles n various small dimples n pressings to adhere the early pressings... n reassembled the car from mostly - 98%-new bits

...isn't this just another example of ringing? I also remember a morris minor traveller the bought for a resto series, again the original 'donor traveller' was of bran flakes consistency and they essentially 'restored' the traveller in a flatpack approach from all new panels...

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I think if you actually have the car, or remains of, then rebuild or reshell it that is fair game, and entirely legal.

What the eBay ringing kits are used for is not that - they are either for pretending an Escort L is a Mexico and therefore worth lots more money, or for ringing a stolen car.

That is illegal and there are few reasons really why anyone who is not doing something illegal would need to buy them.

I get your point that in principle they're not that different from a reshell or rebuild with new parts, but 99% of people buying one will be up to no good.

I also used to report them to eBay, but gave up after not too long when all the fucks they don't give became apparent.

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Dieselassist - It's an interesting point. When does it stop being the same car? To me, doing the same sort of things over a long period of time would be fine, but changing everything at once might feel different. Few people would expect the above cars to be totally original, but should you declare a new shell? Is an engine replacement ok? With 2cvs, my colleague says that they carried chassis in stock when he worked at a Citroen dealer in the 80's!  

.  For example the Scenic Railway at Dreamland Margate is nearly 100 years old. But it had a fire in the 50's or 60's loosing part of the track, and another about 10 years ago which led to a total rebuild. But how much of the (wooden) structure would have been original anyway, with wear and tear etc? So is it the same ride? I would actually say yes, as it is to the the original design and standards but others think differently.  Regardless, it is my favourite roller coaster, and I have ridden it 15 times in the last month!

Getting back on topic, I cannot see any legitimate reason to buy paperwork for a car that you do not own. I have been given old Haynes books or car information for various cars as people know that I like old cars, but would not buy someones logbook, without a car, . I have some for long dead cars that we once owned, but if it ever gets cleared out, it will be destroyed, not sold to make it easy for someone to steal another car. To be fair, the sort of cars that we have owned in the past are probably all dead and valueless anyway!  (present fleet excluded) 

 

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To my mind there’s a big difference between buying say a 1970 MGB, finding out it’s got the structural integrity of a quails egg then reshelling it and telling the next owner exactly what’s been done and someone selling a Escort Pop on as a genuine RS2000. 

 

Years ago someone looking at an Escort RS2000 would probably know the identifying signs of one, when they were worth a couple of grand tops as it was likely they’d be an enthusiast. Now they are being bought as a bit of a speculative investment the chances of it being spotted are less I’d say as they are less likely to be bought solely as something to enjoy at a weekend and moreover something to buy and hopefully make a few quid on. 

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I currently have a Honda C90 in my possession, bought from a friend of mine, it has been parked up for about 20 years and the documents lost. Unfortunately the frame numbers are long gone through rot.

 

I've got a new reproduction frame to rebuild everything onto but I with no documents or frame number to tie back to a reg I can't put it back on the road. I've been keeping an eye out for rotten registered frames but I'll be honest, if a V5 came up for sale on its own I'd happily go down that route.

The only way I can save this little bike is to find it a new identity, despite not be stolen etc.

I can appreciate that my circumstances probably don't apply to most though.

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Where's this guy when you need him?

1702113668_TheCookReport.jpg.0b149841452f516de1fdd0ef11a9a69a.jpg

1262922868_RogerCook.jpg.76404ddfcaee6eee84577502312a47d2.jpg

 

"So you're telling me this V5 belongs to your genuine 1959 Morris Mini Minor, which you've inexplicably 'modified' with a big rear window, big rear lights, no visible door hinges, an A+ engine and slightly faded 'Sprite' stickers?"

618505740_Cook-Nadir.jpg.1e133fce23d6aa6fe3639cee68419646.jpg

"Erm… yes."

"Fucking bollocks - get in the sea, you lying twat."

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My Land Rover 90 exists at the moment as a box of small parts and the logbook & chassis plate in the filing cabinet upstairs. The chassis was terminally rotten, the body not great (despite a paint job that looked quite smart) and the gearbox was notchy. It'll get rebuilt at some point with a new chassis and bulkhead, and probably as a truck cab rather than van body. As this was the plan before I found the chassis to be rather more fucked than I first hoped, in my mind its only the same as what I'd be doing if I had the money at the time. 

Would I sell the ID? Not a bloody chance. I know that 90% of the buyers for an ID are going to ring a stolen Land Rover, or pass off a newer machine as older (mine is a 1990) to get it into the USA. I'm slowly acquiring the bits, biggest problem at the moment is a lack of space to actually build it back up in. Once that is sorted I'll be on the hunt for a good chassis to start with.

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1 hour ago, sierraman said:

Years ago someone looking at an Escort RS2000 would probably know the identifying signs of one, when they were worth a couple of grand tops as it was likely they’d be an enthusiast. Now they are being bought as a bit of a speculative investment the chances of it being spotted are less I’d say as they are less likely to be bought solely as something to enjoy at a weekend and moreover something to buy and hopefully make a few quid on. 

Heh, my uncle got burned in the late 1980s cla$$ic car boom when he bought an 'investment grade' Cortina 1600E, sight unseen, through some sort of specialist broker - which turned out to be at least three different cars bodged together (badly).

It transpired that the broker wasn't expecting any of his clients to actually come down and view said cars; just pay to keep them at his 'secure compound' and sell them on to newer clients for even more money a few months later, in an ever-expanding Ponzi scheme.

The twat then declared bankruptcy and scarpered just as the bubble burst, leaving a field of lashed-up old nails sitting on flat tyres in the weeds.

5 minutes ago, mrdelmonti said:

I currently have a Honda C90 in my possession, bought from a friend of mine, it has been parked up for about 20 years and the documents lost. Unfortunately the frame numbers are long gone through rot.

I've got a new reproduction frame to rebuild everything onto but I with no documents or frame number to tie back to a reg I can't put it back on the road. I've been keeping an eye out for rotten registered frames but I'll be honest, if a V5 came up for sale on its own I'd happily go down that route.

The only way I can save this little bike is to find it a new identity, despite not be stolen etc.

I can appreciate that my circumstances probably don't apply to most though.

Like others here, I'm not opposed to creative ways of returning one's own vehicle to the road which otherwise would languish unused - and I confess that I did have a little bit of a hesitation many years back when I was offered a scrap 1971 Viva HC which was identical in all but tiny details to my 1973 (frustratingly non-tax-exempt at the time) HC; though ultimately, I didn't go there. 

But I'd see that as the equivalent of, say, cultivating a single small cannabis plant for your own occasional recreational use, compared to stripping out a rental house and rigging up industrial heating lamps to grow a huge harvest of grass as a for-profit activity. The authorities tend to take a different approach when dealing with each of these situations, and for good reason.

The eBay pricks seeking £5k for a 'nostalgic collectable' V5, along with a rusty RS1600 VIN dredged from a quarry pond, know exactly what the fuck they're playing at.

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2 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

rigging up industrial heating lamps

ill have you know those are High pressure sodium lamps, used because the spectrum of those lamps match what the plants need for photosynthesis :)

I could setup one hell of a grow if i wanted too LOL, but I dont do drugs (or even alcohol for that matter)

I do wonder from time to time given where I live, when I fire up one of my big high pressure sodium lamps, if someone sees the orange glow from the window and thinks theres a grow there? LOL

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mrdelmonti, do you know the reg for your C90? If so it should be possible to find out the frame number.

If not there is still a process for registering it, if you ring DVLA they will issue you with a VIN for something that currently doesn't have one, and you can register as normal, although it would be on a Q plate due to age not known.

Not ideal I know, but the process is there, it really isn't ever the case that the only way out is ringing.

P.S, would probably still do so myself in your situation so please don't think I'm having a go.

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No I don't know the reg unfortunately, my friend is digging through old photos hoping to spot it.

Q plate is a final option really, I haven't really looked into it but I'll have to do a bit of reading up.

(No offense taken at all, always open to listening to advice.)

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I remember seeing a few "Scrappage" classics appearing on ebay as CAT B write offs that were for spares only and couldn't be returned to the road. One very smart Morris Minor caught my eye and I did consider using a scrapper to transfer the ID from so it could be made roadworthy. Never happened though and It would obviously make it difficult to sell when the time came, but the way I saw it, nobody was getting ripped off and a classic was being saved, so where was the harm?

 

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If it's not a Mini/Escort/Land Rover/ other high-value, frequently stolen car, then there are plenty of 'legit' reasons for buying a logbook. There are lots of vehicles in the world without IDs and lots of IDs without vehicles. The DVLA has made it so difficult to register correctly a car which has lost all identification that it's often the easiest and cheapest (and least devious) way of getting a forgotten old nail back or imported shed of uncertain provenance back on the road. I've done it before, and I'd do it again if I had to. So there.

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10 minutes ago, barrett said:

If it's not a Mini/Escort/Land Rover/ other high-value, frequently stolen car, then there are plenty of 'legit' reasons for buying a logbook. There are lots of vehicles in the world without IDs and lots of IDs without vehicles. The DVLA has made it so difficult to register correctly a car which has lost all identification that it's often the easiest and cheapest (and least devious) way of getting a forgotten old nail back or imported shed of uncertain provenance back on the road. I've done it before, and I'd do it again if I had to. So there.

Agreed, but it's not often that you find the sort of documents you'd need for the truly obscure being punted on eBay. The sort of action you're describing usually takes place amongst like-minded individuals on places like this. I've benefited from exactly that sort of help, and it came in the form of a fellow 'shiter whose input means that one of my oddball bikes will be road legal as soon as I can get my shit together.

 

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