project Invacar MK12 - New owner Mrs 6Cyl

[LightBulbFun]

34 minutes ago, BoggyMires said:

This is because it wasn't taxed when the SORN was introduced

I have heard that thrown around

but if that was the case then wouldn't all the Model 70's that have been untaxed since 19xx also show as Not taxed for on road use then?

(out of nearing a thousand Model 70's iv looked up via the DVLA only 2 say "not taxed for on road use" one whos chassis number I can pull, the other ones chassis number i cant pull)

[Crispian_J_Hotson]

I believe that is the reason why NTFORU is displayed. Why your invacars show something else is for some other reason. Poor records and historic communication issues I should imagine.

[catsinthewelder]

Would it have anything to do with the fact that most would be taxed as disabled?

[LightBulbFun]

12 hours ago, catsinthewelder said:

Would it have anything to do with the fact that most would be taxed as disabled?

I dont think so

but on LVX293J I might be getting closer to an answer

because look at its previous registration marks those are definitely northern ireland ones!

 

I wonder why it changed reg so many times in NI? sadly the NI Model 70's I shove in there dont show any new or previous VRMs

 

 

also curiously enough JBY503J apart from obviously showings its original registration of LVX250J it also has had some other registrations it seems? (LVX250J is definitely its original registration so i wonder what EU and EV are about, especially as LVX250J does not appear as a new registration, just as an old one)

 

 

for those wondering I did then go to try and look up the 2 Model 70's I know with not taxed for on road use but sadly I hit my look up limit on the website for the next 24 hours Oops!

 

[quicksilver]

Those are all fairly recent NI marks issued long after the heyday of the Mk12, just to add to the puzzle.

13 hours ago, BoggyMires said:

'Not taxed for on road use'.

 

This is because it wasn't taxed when the SORN was introduced and is therefore not required to have a SORN. Instead of saying the status of SORN it displays NOT TAXED FOR ON ROAD USE... because it can't have a SORN status for the reason above.

Tax it now, let the tax expire and it WILL be subjected to a SORN because it has expired AFTER the SORN was introduced.

That took me 4 minutes to find that out and makes perfect sense. Hope that helps. ?

It's not as simple as that I'm afraid. Most vehicles that have been off the road continuously since before SORN was introduced simply remain 'untaxed'. Check JNX134L as an example - untaxed since March 1994 but I know it still exists as it's in many pieces all over our garage. We even tried to SORN it but the DVLA wouldn't accept the SORN declaration and told us it should stay untaxed. 'Not taxed for on road use' seems to be some sort of early equivalent of SORN for vehicles that were off the road when the DVLA system was computerised in the early 1980s. 

[LightBulbFun]

25 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

Those are all fairly recent NI marks issued long after the heyday of the Mk12, just to add to the puzzle

Indeed! and its worth noting that all the NI regs it lists, come back as something Modern(ish) on the various checkers out there

and on a similar note GIG4834 is a Model 70 which comes back as one on all the sites, except this one where it comes back as a Golf, but with Model 70 specs LOL https://www.vehiclecheck.co.uk/?vrm=GIG4834

[quicksilver]

A Volkswagen Golf tricycle? I'd love to see one of those...

It's odd how the car check sites all seem to have slightly different databases and the same registration can return different data. I've seen some of them get confused when a registration is transferred from one vehicle to another and merge bits of the two records together, so maybe that's what happened here.

[Crispian_J_Hotson]

49 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

Those are all fairly recent NI marks issued long after the heyday of the Mk12, just to add to the puzzle.

It's not as simple as that I'm afraid. Most vehicles that have been off the road continuously since before SORN was introduced simply remain 'untaxed'. Check JNX134L as an example - untaxed since March 1994 but I know it still exists as it's in many pieces all over our garage. We even tried to SORN it but the DVLA wouldn't accept the SORN declaration and told us it should stay untaxed. 'Not taxed for on road use' seems to be some sort of early equivalent of SORN for vehicles that were off the road when the DVLA system was computerised in the early 1980s. 

It has to be a simple case of different wording for the same status. Either the vehicle is taxed or it is not. As you can see the different terms cause confusion so for that and many other reasons now there is either SORN or TAXED. If the vehicle hasn't been taxed since SORN was introduced then it is still on the old, confusing system and can't be updated until it is taxed now. My first car, MVX11V is displaying 'untaxed'. It was off the road before 1998 in 1995, had it been off the road since 1980 it may well display 'not taxed for road use'. You will never be able to SORN your vehicle until it has a valid MOT (or V112), insurance and tax and then that lapses.

[LightBulbFun]

I used Model 70's as an example because iv literally looked up almost 1000 of them  

but like quicksilver, most other vehicles I have looked up that have been off the road since whenever, have just shown untaxed since 19xx or such rather then "not taxed for on road use"

the only time iv commonly seen "not taxed for on road use" is weird stuff like London transport trolleybuses or some really early invalid carriages (like the ones from the 1950s and before)

I have also seen "not taxed for on road use" on at least 1 vehicle that was first registered in like 2005, so well after SORN was introduced

[LightBulbFun]

tethered my laptop to my phone to get me a new IP address so I could look up some more regs

YVX206L, TEV673N edit: and  NNO803M, dont show as having any other previous registrations (these are the 3 Model 70 that I know of with "not taxed for on road use" I also looked up YTB768N which is a Tippen Delta that shows the same, but again no NI regs or anything like that, so it seems like LVX293J is a unique case)

[wuvvum]

I think you might be embarking on something of a wild goose chase if you are trying to find some kind of logic or consistency in DVLA records...

[egg]

@purplebargeken recommended using magic sponges/erasers to @LightBulbFun for his new Invacar. 

I clocked that, and thought, that might be a really good way of removing the ground in dirt on my one.

I ordered some, and had half hour free at the lock-up today. Yes - very effective, and much speedier removal of dirt than previous methods.

No pics, because I was in a hurry.

Cheers PBK for the tip...

[LightBulbFun]

very cool stuff! I look forward to pics in time

thats a very good point nothing stops you using them on the outside I never thought about using them that way!

the perks of having a car made out of "plastic" eh?  

as i mentioned on the other thread, magic erasers are well known in the vintage computer community for removing all sorts of crap from computer plastics

I really must get some for myself soon!

[egg]

It's basically a very light wet sand - perhaps equivalent to using very gentle fine sandpaper.

Technique seems to be use a magic eraser, then wipe dirt off with a clean microfibre cloth, then get spray waterless cleaner and wipe that off for a polished* finish.

[egg]

I got a chance to do another hour or so with the magic sponges - I've used them all now, so time to order some more. I reckon 2-3 more sessions like that will have it looking clean.

DVLA say wait six weeks before getting in touch about the V62 - that's next Monday - when I expect I will find they have misplaced it...

Have some pics

[egg]

A before and after...

[LightBulbFun]

happy to see the Mk12 getting some love  its as I have said, an Invacar can look like utter shit, but because fibreglass it all just washes off with enough scrubbing

if they have lost the V62 send the next one as tracked and signed id say

 

[Kiltox]

Would you not be better using TFR or something to remove dirt rather than scrubbing it off? Or have you tried that already?

used magic sponges successfully to remove paint transfer from my crashed van but it’s a bit extreme 

[500tops]

Woah! What a difference. Must be good for the old mojo?

 

I think I might've missed it, so apologies, but what's the current situation with getting it back on the system? Did you find out its original number or are you waiting for an age related plate?

[egg]

20 minutes ago, 500tops said:

Woah! What a difference. Must be good for the old mojo?

I think I might've missed it, so apologies, but what's the current situation with getting it back on the system? Did you find out its original number or are you waiting for an age related plate?

Well, I'm waiting on help from the Invalid Carriage Register. In the meantime, trying to be self-reliant, I have re-submitted a more detailed V62 application with photos, the full registration information from Essex Council, covering letter etc - and hoping that might do the trick, as the DVLA do have a 'partial record' for the vehicle on the system. It is possible the DVLA are sitting on it because it is a marginal case...or they might have just lost it!

1 hour ago, Kiltox said:

Would you not be better using TFR or something to remove dirt rather than scrubbing it off? Or have you tried that already?

Possibly yes, but the dirt is so ground in, it's like it's part of the surface itself. It seems to be working better than any cleaner I have tried - but I admit I've not tried TFR.

[Zelandeth]

To be fair...they completely lost all trace of the first V62 I submitted too, so it seems to be a none too unusual occurrence.

[Yoss]

By 'lost' do you think they have a 'too difficult' pile whereby they ignore it hoping you'll go away and then only deal with it if you are more persistent?

[barrett]

I genuinely suspect it's the latter. I never, ever send anything to the DVLA without signed for insured post, even if it's just sending off a V5. I realise that in any organisation of that size things are going to go missing, but when its the difference between you potentially registering or not registering a car it's not worth the risk

[egg]

Well, I've give 'em a ring and see where we are with it (probably nowhere). And, I'll do signed-for next time.

I also expect that these Swansea folks have targets around numbers processed a day and so on, so suspect difficult cases are more bother than they are worth.  Like almost any target in the public sector - it probably has no nuance for complexity - so 'easy' lost V5's on a modern would be the preferred work.

[somewhatfoolish]

Make a few copies of the form and post a new one once a day for a week.

[Zelandeth]

Apparently (I've heard this a few times now) stuff that's sent recorded delivery etc is actually *more* likely to vanish within their walls than not as it has to be handled differently.  So there's a small batch of those floating around rather than hundreds of normal forms which the mailroom staff can direct in their sleep for the most part.

I'd by lying if I said I hadn't noticed that we had a lot of letters that came in to the council which were recorded delivery etc which had been floating around in the building for up to a couple of weeks.  Normal mail would normally be on my desk within 24 hours of it arriving at the building. 

The story we got when I queried it (having nearly had my ear torn off by an angry member of the public demanding to know why his letter hadn't been replied to for the umpteenth time) was that there was only one member of staff in our mail room who was able to process those letters - so if they got behind or were off sick they just piled up and up and up.

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the DVLA have similar issues.  Knowing it's got to their building doesn't really help you at all when there are a couple of thousand desks which it could have ended up on in error!

[Ghosty]

I've also heard things sent recorded, special etc are less likely to find the right DVLA departments. I send everything to the DVLA second class and I've never had an issue.

 

When my old Civic's V5 went AWOL for over a month after I replaced the engine and updated the V5 to match, I phoned the DVLA to enquire what was going on.

They responded that they had an open case regarding it and that the changes had been approved, and that a V5 was forthcoming. Took a couple more weeks but they weren't wrong.

Before taking any other action, I would call up the DVLA with as many details as you can provide, and they should be able to update you regarding progress. If they can't, that's when you pursue other means. 

[Kiltox]

V62 does take forever, even for a modern car 

[egg]

Woah, just logged on to my bank account....and DVLA cashed the £25 V62 cheque today.....could it be there is a V5 on the way....

[Six-cylinder]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

Woah, just logged on to my bank account....and DVLA cashed the £25 V62 cheque today.....could it be there is a V5 on the way....

How long did that take?