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Invacar MK12 - BlankFrank has started work

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Angry.

The ICR did not respond to my request for help. OK, so.

Phoned the DVLA in early July - who said - send in a V62 with your supporting evidence - 'looks promising' we have a partial record - V62 sent around 6 July

Waited 6 weeks - nothing. Called on 6 weeks (20 Aug) - 'we have received your documents and are currently processing them - but it will take longer than 6 weeks I'm afraid because we are checking the original records'

Cheque for £25 taken.

9 weeks now, so called again today - we have no record of receiving any documentation from you, I don't know why your cheque has been taken, there is no record of your query on the system for this vehicle or your address - you can't get a V5 on this vehicle anyway using a V62, go back to the club...

In other words - complete load of crap all round.

Two options from here (a) letter of complaint to DVLA - only way to get stuff done in this country (b) Just do a V55 and get a new number.

Arse.

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9 minutes ago, egg said:

Angry.

The ICR did not respond to my request for help. OK, so.

Phoned the DVLA in early July - who said - send in a V62 with your supporting evidence - 'looks promising' we have a partial record - V62 sent around 6 July

Waited 6 weeks - nothing. Called on 6 weeks (20 Aug) - 'we have received your documents and are currently processing them - but it will take longer than 6 weeks I'm afraid because we are checking the original records'

Cheque for £25 taken.

9 weeks now, so called again today - we have no record of receiving any documentation from you, I don't know why your cheque has been taken, there is no record of your query on the system for this vehicle or your address - you can't get a V5 on this vehicle anyway using a V62, go back to the club...

In other words - complete load of crap all round.

Two options from here (a) letter of complaint to DVLA - only way to get stuff done in this country (b) Just do a V55 and get a new number.

Arse.

 

thats fucking awful!

if they cashed your £25 cheque without any record of docs from you then is that even legal? since you paid for a service but never had said service delivered

I would say before getting too drastic tho, try call up say tomorrow or so and hope you get another person

from what I understand with the DVLA etc how far you get can vary a lot on the person you speak to

(also if you remember the name of the person you spoke to last time you had good news, maybe ask if you can speak to them again?)

 

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Oh, for a bit of balance - the guy who papped this MK12 year's ago (2011)is going to see if it is still there and speak to the owner for me :-)

So thanks to LBF for finding that pic.

69460740_382860339055740_5630433474851635200_n.jpg.59fafea4a11357b5c0655837b0531761.jpg

happy to see that theres a Lead on this one :) 

hopefully its still there and can be saved, or has already been saved :) 

did he tell you where it was or how he came across it?

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No further info at this stage - but just nice of him to reply at all.

I agree - I'm going to call DVLA again later/tomorrow and see if I can get a different story.

I think with public services - delays are tolerable, but when you get these different messages from different people depending on which way the wind blows (or which internal training course they have been on) it gets my goat! I know you will sympathise LBF having had your own issues with 'the man'!

 

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27 minutes ago, egg said:

No further info at this stage - but just nice of him to reply at all.

I agree - I'm going to call DVLA again later/tomorrow and see if I can get a different story.

I think with public services - delays are tolerable, but when you get these different messages from different people depending on which way the wind blows (or which internal training course they have been on) it gets my goat! I know you will sympathise LBF having had your own issues with 'the man'!

 

Yeah I agree its nice that they responded in the first place, much like when I found the First Mk12, and we all know how that went :mrgreen:

 

 

indeed I sympathise a lot with you and it also pisses me off a lot as I have had all this Bullshit when dealing with the government with my own issues sadly,

I think the worst 2 that come to mind are when I went for a operation on my foot (due to stepping on a bit of broken glass that decided to not come out)

and it turned out that someone somewhere forgot to put a single sheet of paper somewhere, so my operation was never booked in and the surgeon was going on holiday the next day, so I would not be able to be booked in for another 6 weeks or something

mum fucking hit the roof that day, I think they finally put me in when mum threatened legal action to the head of the hospital

 

second more recent time is when I went for a ESA assessment, and I thought ah this one went quite well for a change, and we were pretty confident about it, only to be sent a text message that we had an ESA assessment like 1 week afterwards

so we called and asked "whats this about?! " and it turned out that due to a "computer issue" on their end that assessment was void, so they just booked me in for another one, without any consideration for my back and how hard and painful it is for my to travel, we were able to get them to rebook it for a couple more weeks later at least

but then that assessment went quite poorly sadly to add insult to injury (and of course no such computer issue happened this time LOL)

 

But I think the worst of them all, was the fact that because I was born early, I was supposed to be scanned for CP when I was quite young, but this just never happened

had it actually happened it would of saved me and mum SO MUCH trouble/time/pain when I fell off the wall and did my back in (because the doctors could not figure out what the hell was wrong with my back exactly and why it was not healing, until a neurologist said hang on lets do a MRI of my brain, where we discovered that I have CP which pretty much explained everything)

or how about when they almost killed me by almost giving me the wrong blood type when I needed a transfusion when I was born!

I could rant on for hours but I best shut up now LOL

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2 hours ago, egg said:

.... with public services - delays are tolerable, but when you get these different messages from different people depending on which way the wind blows (or which internal training course they have been on) it gets my goat! ....

A client and I both called HMRC on three separate occasions each to ask the same question about Capital Gains Tax. We compared notes and realised we now had six different answers.....

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Called again this afternoon - asking specifically, why have you cashed my cheque?

Anyway, again I got a different message - there is evidence on the vehicle history that the 'vehicles team' has been going 'in and out' of the record - but then vague references were made to old records in the basement, pre-DVLC etc

Apparently the partial record tells them only that the registration number was once issued - and not much more than that (although he did ask me to name the car make, so that must be on there too)

In summary - it was 'keep waiting it will probably turn up'.

I'll give it another 10 days and then sharpen my complaints pencil 😣

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20 minutes ago, egg said:

Called again this afternoon - asking specifically, why have you cashed my cheque?

Anyway, again I got a different message - there is evidence on the vehicle history that the 'vehicles team' has been going 'in and out' of the record - but then vague references were made to old records in the basement, pre-DVLC etc

Apparently the partial record tells them only that the registration number was once issued - and not much more than that (although he did ask me to name the car make, so that must be on there too)

In summary - it was 'keep waiting it will probably turn up'.

I'll give it another 10 days and then sharpen my complaints pencil 😣

Progress I guess at least!

interesting to hear that there is "basement" with pre DVLC stuff in it

im really curious what they have in there

stuarts Harding is a G reg one (which is part of the mystery we are trying to solve on that one) it being registried even later then your Mk12 makes me wonder if the DVLA do have info on it

this also makes me wonder how many cars/reg numbers have been "incorrectly" V765ed when they could of been V62ed instead!

 

up until this Mk12, I had thought if a reg of a vintage car did not show up on the DVLA, that they just did not have any info on it and you would have to V765 it etc

so its very interesting to hear the DVLA does have something its good news for other cars and other invacars etc :) 

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Taking a step back and looking at it from DVLA's perspective (which is always a good life skill to remember when one is angry!)

- I'm calling a generic vehicle enquiry line

- Their normal business is 'I moved house, and lost the V5 for my Fiesta Ecoboost' - so I'm not surprised they are a bit confused by my request for info on 50 year old 3 wheeler that may have been off the road for decades

- the normal route is the V765 as you suggest LBF.  If I had support from the ICR for that my form would probably end up with another team who are a bit more used to dealing with this situation. 

- However, I perfectly respect the ICR's objective of promoting the history and social side of disabled vehicles, I think that goes a long way to answer the qualms that Bornite and others have about their preservation. In addition, they are a register and not an owner's club - and  just like Autoshite - that makes me just a 'guest' and not a 'stakeholder'.  But, unfortunately without the support of the ICR, I can't seem to get this car registered (with it's original plate).

Anyway - I could shoot off an email to the RUMcar people, they may be able to help me and they are DVLA registered.

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2 hours ago, egg said:

and not an owner's club

the DVLA begs to differ! (bottom of page 7)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/804458/v765x1-list-of-vehicle-owners-clubs.pdf

as you say I I respect what the the ICR is doing regard History and Social history side of things

but its the fact they are letting the actual preservation and helping of people with Invalid vehicles go to the toilet is what gets on my tits so to speak

especially as thats what the ICR was originally set up for, 

hence why im quite eager to try and get onboard the ICR, because then Simon can go do his Social histories stuff unabated while I handle the preservation and helping of people with Invalid vehicles etc :) 

no offence to Simon, but I dont think he is as into invalid vehicles as me and stuart are sadly, for example with OYP595, he (simon) never actually bothered to actually check the vehicle out on the DVLA! and he always thought that OYP595 was just an age related plate, and he never knew it had been rung or why it was even rung in the first place, and if your the head of the group that represents these vehicles I think you really should know this stuff! so that came as a bit of a shock to me, its pretty clear that Simon is in it so to speak for the social histories etc of it, rather then the actual vehicles themselves etc, which like I said is fine on its own, but if your also responsible for the group that handles the actual vehicles and are the official group that represents them then It becomes a problem IMHO on OYP595 the last owner change was in 2005, so I dont think Simon even has the V5 for it etc, I did show simon where the chassis numbers where on a Model 70 and he said he will check for me so I look forward to that :) 

anyways I best shut up again LOL

 

on the V765 front, its worth noting that when you do that, you are registering the vehicle for the first time like as if you had just imported a car from a foreign country or are buying one new etc, the only major difference here is your using the V765 to say "it was issued this reg back in the day can I have it assigned to my car when it gets registered please!"

its for this reason that I do hope the V62 goes through because if original registration information exists for XWC then I would like to see it being used, as it would of been the info as supplied by Invacar and original to the vehicle etc :)

(you fill in a V765 with a V55/4 and you have to supply all the vehicle info yourself, and while I can make a good guess as to what you would put down for a Invacar Mk12c I cant say for 100% for example what the Revenue weight would be etc)

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@egg I spoke to Stuart today and among the many things talked about (which ill be posting about in my own thread soon :) )  

and we spoke a bit your issues getting your Mk12 registered 

and Stuart spoke to Simon/Big Al, and it seems like somewhere along the line there was a communications fail (surprise surprise! LOL)

and he says Simon/Big Al have been waiting for a V765 and V55/4 from you for them to sign off on/stamp

 

he says your Mk12 should be a nice easy one to do as you already have all the evidence etc rounded up and ready to go, so for the ICR, all they have to do is sign off on it

although one thing he says just in future when you submit pictures etc, nail a set of number plates to it, even if they are cheap and nasty ones that are clearly brand new or just even numbers painted on London Transport Routemaster bus style

he says the DVLA like that sort of thing, and it can help with V765's etc

 

so here is what I would do/say:

 lets hope this V62 does go through and work first :) 

 

but in the meantime id fill out a V765 and V55/4 ready to go just incase, 

I would also contact the owner of JBY503J and kindly ask for a picture of the V5c so we can get a better idea of what the V5c of a Mk12 looks like so we know how to better fill out the V55/4

and of course please do show me the V55/4 before you submit it etc if it comes to that, id like to make sure all the info on its is correct! and also so I can make sure no fields are filled in unsserly, remember there's a lot of things on it that are just not applicable to invacars

(id also be happy to fill in the V55/4 for you and then you can go over it and make sure theres no admin side of things that I have missed!)

but whatever you dont submit the V765 V55/4 until after this whole V62 thing is over with! (on the V62 situation, Stuart says  he never seen a vehicle that does not show up on the DVLA  get a result from a V62 before, but I say given that it looks like the DVLA might actually be doing something this time id say lets wait before V765ing things)

if it does come to a V765 V55/4 I can then hand it to Stuart who can push it through for us and make sure it does not get lost to any more communication fails!

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Excellent! Thanks very much. That's all good stuff. 

That sounds like a solution - of course, I do want to know why Swansea have taken my £25, but that is really positive.

I'll keep you posted, as it were.

 

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The DVLA are fucking awful (time wise) when it comes to applying for a V5 that you didn't get.  God knows, maybe that have to wait and see if anyone else lays claim to it within whatever time frame they use, but it just takes forever. Have a feeling one took about 12 weeks to come here once, and I bet the Lambretta one I applied for three weeks ago won't be here any time soon.

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holy fucking shit it worked the V62 worked!

im still waiting for my 3rd party sites to update their database so I can check out the details on it

(little bit concerning that it comes back as "2-wheel" with a 1000cc engine, im a bit worried someone thinks its a motorcycle, I want to make sure the Body type comes back as "invalid vehicle" )

but thats so cool! that the V62 worked for a vehicle that no longer showed up on the DVLA

really gives me hope for Stuarts harding :) (and other Mk12's and Model 67s etc that dont show up on the DVLA)

so fucking awesome to see it finally show up, after all the work (and money!) you put in it finally paid off!

id love to know if the last taxed date is just a generic one, or if thats when it was actually last taxed

it does sound about right for a villiers machine, maybe it was a case that whoever was responsible for this Invacar, never got its Buff Log Book changed so it was never properly registered with the DVLA despite surviving into 1980?

but since they kept taxing it im guessing the DVLA would of had records up to that point but this is purely speculation 

(I seem to have 1983 as a cut off date for something to do with those buff logbooks, maybe @busmansholiday can fill us in more there)

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1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

(little bit concerning that it comes back as "2-wheel" with a 1000cc engine, im a bit worried someone thinks its a motorcycle, I want to make sure the Body type comes back as "invalid vehicle" )

Yes, but this can be updated right? I'll have to send the new V5 back to them again anyway to get MOT exemption in theory anyway. 

Nothing in the post today, but I'll be waiting in anticipation...

Agree with your point about V765s....

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6 minutes ago, egg said:

Yes, but this can be updated right? I'll have to send the new V5 back to them again anyway to get MOT exemption in theory anyway. 

Nothing in the post today, but I'll be waiting in anticipation...

Agree with your point about V765s....

it should be changeable in theory, but when Zel tried to do it all they updated was the engine capacity and put the engine number in that was missing beforehand on TPAs V5

they never changed anything else on the V5, but thats just DVLA shenanigans I imagine

which was very good in Zels case because he erroneously changed the body type from Invalid vehicle to Tricycle, but luckily as mentioned, the DVLA never updated that

he dodged a bullet there!

I look forward to seeing the Physical V5c of XWC :) (as mentioned the main thing I want to make sure is correct is your body type as that's what dictates the legal side of things when it comes to invalid vehicles)

 

but yeah the fact you got XWC to show up on the DVLA again with just a V62, really is something

because AFAIK the universal consensus is/was that if a historic vehicle no longer shows up on the DVLA, its a V765 jobby and the DVLA wont have any info on it

but your case shows the DVLA does have some info old vehicles, I really do wonder what exactly the DVLA has squirreled away in there basement so to speak

this is really good news for historic vehicles everywhere not just invacars :)

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14 minutes ago, egg said:

Indeed. Of course another error is year of manufacture which should be '67...

not too surprised by that given how it was first Registered on the 24th of January 1968 so would of been right on the cusp (which BTW checks out with the Essex records :) ) for example REV was made in October 1976 but registered for the first time on the 5th of November 1976 

it looks like the year of manufacture was only a recent thing as for vehicles which have been inactive for a long while don't display a year of manufacture, but then when suddenly they become active, one shows up, I imagine based off the date of first registration

see TPA for example :) 

image.thumb.png.7838d751105aff527919f1c433f7a4b6.png

 

Screenshot 2019-01-29 at 13.10.26.png

 

so yeah technically an error, but one that would of been there from the start/regardless if that makes sense :)

 

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I do find it most curious still how XWC Despite having an earlier chassis number was registried a good few months later then WOO976F

ill have to check with Stuart if the chassis number he has for WOO976F is one he confirmed properly, or if he found out about it via a round of chinese whispers

esp as its a as WOO976F is a Wxx-F car which logically would come before Xxx-F

 

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13 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

I haven't had the V5 yet for Dolly. The DVLA has taken my money, though, so I guess it will happen in due course...

I reckon the dusty guy (or gal) in the basement who does Invacar V5's has just got back from their long summer holiday ;-). Hopefully you'll get it soon.

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7 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

I haven't had the V5 yet for Dolly. The DVLA has taken my money, though, so I guess it will happen in due course...

ah cool (I think!)

I was wondering how the application for dolly's V5 was going :) 

(it seems like Brian getting MPH759Ps V5 so quickly was the exception rather then the rule sadly!)

if they cashed your cheque I think that's a good sign, as I dont think they would cash the cheque if there was an issue with the V62 application

remember once you get the V5 all you have to do to do to hit the road with Dolly on the paperwork side of things, is to go to the post office with a V112 and ask to change the tax class to "Historic" from "Disabled"

you dont have to do this when you get the V5, but its just something to be done before you hit the road 

(although going by how fraser managed to tax his mobility scooter online despite it being in the disabled tax class, it does make me wonder if you can do the same with Invacars and tax one online without changing the tax class its something id like to try with one purely as a case study of course, as unless you're actually disabled your vehicle should not be in the disabled tax class! )

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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133172282832

I see Barry is not done selling off his Invacar spares

one engine for each wheel, 3 wheel drive? :mrgreen:

"I think it is 197 cc  but could have been fitted with a 250 cc barrel at some time - I don't know."

so you can upgrade the piston/barrels on these like a Steyr puch or 2CV engine then?

that would be down right lethal in a Mk12 with its 1 wheel drive LOL

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Yes, many Villiers 197cc were upgraded on motorbikes, so I guess this would be the same. 8.5bhp is enough for me!

Will watch this with interest, thanks.

Meanwhile. Good news!

28755582_IMG_20190916_1556432.thumb.jpg.d5ab61b2a931a00324da34457693e985.jpg

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22 minutes ago, egg said:

Yes, many Villiers 197cc were upgraded on motorbikes, so I guess this would be the same. 8.5bhp is enough for me!

Will watch this with interest, thanks.

Meanwhile. Good news!

28755582_IMG_20190916_1556432.thumb.jpg.d5ab61b2a931a00324da34457693e985.jpg

aye yeah, for £200 it will be interesting to see if it does attract any bidders,

Very cool to see you got some paperwork in regards the whole situation finally :) 

I love how make and Model are blank, that's how you know your dealing with the obscure :mrgreen:

I wonder if its worth calling them up and letting them know its a 3 Wheeler before they send out the V5 to you? (or if that might just be throwing one to many things into an already complicated situation) I think sadly my 3rd party tools update their databases on a monthly basis so I have not yet been able to check the Body type sadly, but maybe if you call them they might be confirm (as mentioned before seeing as it shows up as "2-Wheel" im a bit worried and also curious if someone has it down on the V5 as a "Motorcycle", or if it is properly down on the V5 as an "invalid vehicle" regardless of the wheel plan)

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      From January I started looking, there were eBay bids, missed reserves, wasted trips from Gumtree and other such nonsense. I happened on an automatic Rover 216 GSI with one giffer owner from a year old. The chap was giving up driving at 93 years old and his grandson was moving it on. I bid, and failed. It was in London though, about 420 miles away so I wasn't all that bothered. Of course when he offered it to me for my losing bid after the winning buyer was a no show I said yes. I was on the Megabus down to that London overnight for about £15. I hung about in Liverpool Street station like a mad shivering jakey until my train out to the suburb for my first sight of the new steed. It was battered outside but had been well looked after. A frankly insulting amount of cash changed hands and I was away up the road.

      We had many adventures together, it was dependable and it whet my appetite for interesting old motors again and proved that the very bottom end of the market was navigable if I had the patience to wade through the sea of shit to find the odd pearl.



      The 407 was still on the fleet at this point but I was covering a lot of miles in the Rover, with a long commute though the fuel economy wasn't ideal. When a friend's mother was looking for a new diesel saloon to replace the faithful old Xsara she had a scheme was concocted. I sold the 407 to her and was on the hunt for an interesting replacement.

      When I was growing up my dad had a succession of hopeless shitters, indeed I was brought home from the hospital as a newborn in a brush painted Skoda Super Estelle. The best car he had was a red XUD Peugeot 405 with air conditioning and electric windows. So when I found a 1994 GTXD advertised by someone who could actually compose a car advert in the fashion you would expect of a human being educated to a Primary School level, I pounced.

      Of course I couldn't buy a car just down the road so it was on the train to Birmingham. First class no less. I stayed in an absolute flea pit of a hotel and drove up the road the next day. This was a proper bit of nostalgia and a really practical borderline classic car. It had been fastidiously maintained by the previous owner. Apart from there being a hole where there was once a stereo and the lack of working air con it was a pleasant drive home.

      Given their relative scarcity and how dependable this one has proven so far, it's a keeper, I'd struggle to part with it.



      Two cars just wasn't enough to worry about, so this Citroen C1 was acquired. Pure Aleppo spec. A camel can go for weeks, or months without stopping at a watering hole, the C1 has a similar thirst for Motor Spirit. Man maths were employed and worked out that it would easily* pay for itself.




      There have been further movements, I'll recap them shortly. I should probably do some work.
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