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Invacar MK12 - New owner Mrs 6Cyl


egg

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Bugger. Hagerty chap assured me that it would (not askmid specifically, but I did check that before going ahead). Oh well call is recorded etc. 

I'll check the askmid database tomorrow.

I went to local post office and V5 was stamped and retained, historic was written in and vehicle was taxed....

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17 minutes ago, egg said:

Bugger. Hagerty chap assured me that it would (not askmid specifically, but I did check that before going ahead). Oh well call is recorded etc. 

I'll check the askmid database tomorrow.

I went to local post office and V5 was stamped and retained, historic was written in and vehicle was taxed....

ill keep an eye on it too :) its not showing up as Taxed or insured yet on my end but these things normally take a day or 2 to update

happy to see the you managed to sort out the tax class at least :)

did you also put in the other changes while you were at it? :) (3-wheel and 197cc)

 

(when a V5 is sent off like this for a change, do you get a new 11 digit number or does that stay the same since the owner is not changing?)

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No other changes. I've found out to change engine size you need evidence (even though the current figure is completely wrong

https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-details-registration-certificate/what-evidence-to-give

Quote

Change of engine number or cylinder capacity (cc)
You need to provide either:

a receipt for the replacement engine
written evidence from the manufacturer
an inspection report provided for insurance purposes
written confirmation on headed paper from a garage (if the change took place before you bought the vehicle)

And re: the 2 wheel to 3 wheel thing - I didn't want them to think it was a 'substantial change' messing with my MOT exemption, lol.

We'll see!

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24 minutes ago, egg said:

No other changes. I've found out to change engine size you need evidence (even though the current figure is completely wrong

https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-details-registration-certificate/what-evidence-to-give

And re: the 2 wheel to 3 wheel thing - I didn't want them to think it was a 'substantial change' messing with my MOT exemption, lol.

We'll see!

I think thats more for when your modifying a vehicle rather than correcting for when the DVLA database is wrong

for example with TPA Zel put down a number of changes when he changed the tax class and although most got ignored by the DVLA for some reason

the 2 that did take hold was the Engine number and engine size change :) (not posting the engine number here for obvious reasons!) AFAIK @Zelandeth did not have to present any proof or such when doing so, but he can correct me if im wrong!

image.png

 

Screenshot 2019-01-29 at 13.10.26.png

 

its interesting to note that 2 of the changes that did not take hold for whatever reason was the Body type (which was good in this case as Zel had put down"Tricycle" under errnous instructions) and he also put down 3-wheel for the wheelplan which never took hold as you can see

(although I do wonder if those changes where ignored because of how Zel put it in the V5, for example is it "3 Wheel or "3-wheel" and I think he put "motorised Tricycle" rather then "Tricycle" so maybe thats why those changes never happened)

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It gets worse, I'm making a mess of this...

Quote

Please Note: UK legislation requires all owners of vehicles insured on a Laid Up basis (damage, fire and theft only) are required to make a Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN) for each vehicle, where appropriate. Failure to do this may result in a fine and/or penalty from the DVLA or Motor Insurance Database (MID).

So, I needed to insure it, because I needed to tax it, because I had to change the tax class (which you can't do on SORN)

But then, I need to SORN it because I only have laid up insurance.

Woe, woe and thrice Woe! Lol.

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11 minutes ago, egg said:

It gets worse, I'm making a mess of this...

 

I would not worry too much really

if you have changed the tax class to historic and she is taxed again, then you can just simply SORN (once a car is taxed it can be sorned)

no ones going to come busting down your door because you had her taxed for a few days while on laid up insurance or whatever!

I had to leave REV Untaxed for a few days due to some DVLA shenanigans, and no men in black suits have come to beat me up!

(could not SORN with the new keeper slip because "the previous owner did not notify the DVLA of an owner change" and then when the keeper change finally happened I could not SORN her, as a new 11 digit V5 number had been issued, which I did not have yet because the V5 had yet to arrive LOL that was a funny catch 22)

https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-invacar-model-70-acquired-and-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-phase-2-finding-a-suitable-driving-schoolinstructor-getting-lessons-and-a-licence-proof-of-h-and-j-reg-model-70s-discovered/?do=findComment&comment=1841306

took almost 2 weeks before I could SORN her LOL

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I think I'm perplexed that this is all such a faff really - usual thing - a rigid government system which I'm trying to do something a little different with. As you say all will be fine - I've seen cars in my street without MOT for weeks, and nothing happens :-)

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7 minutes ago, egg said:

I think I'm perplexed that this is all such a faff really - usual thing - a rigid government system which I'm trying to do something a little different with. As you say all will be fine - I've seen cars in my street without MOT for weeks, and nothing happens :-)

well at least Invacar owners on this forum have their own personal invacar support person :) 

someone who has spent far too much time trying to make sense and figure out a system/thing that makes no sense at all and that the people running it dont even understand themselves! LOL

Welcome to the world of the plastic beach invalid vehicle and the DVLA! :mrgreen:

(its one of the things I love/find humrous about the invalid vehicle it exposes what a clusterf*ck the DVLA can be!)

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4 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I think the most amusing question I got asked when feeling up a quote for REV was:

"is it right or left hand drive"

"uhh erm..."

or as I think @Slowsilver said:

"is it right or left hand drive"

"No" 

LOL!

The correct answer is shirley "Yes, it's right or left hand drive"

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With two of the MGs I SORN them as soon as I got the log book back, neither had any form of Insurance. The third was insured anyway.

With the bike, I got the new log book and forgot. Given it's been in bits in the shed for about 35 years it didn't cross my mind. About two, three months afterwards I received a letter saying either insure it, SORN it or we send the boys round. SORNed it, never heard any more.

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Thanks. I'll get this tax changed, and once I know whether this engine will run again, I'll update wheelplan, engine number and capacity. Assuming I don't enlarge the CC to 225 with a piston upgrade ?

https://villiersservices.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8_92&products_id=794

66e4a8d7f1766febe91d2bc0b54c830d.image.4

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24 minutes ago, egg said:

Thanks. I'll get this tax changed, and once I know whether this engine will run again, I'll update wheelplan, engine number and capacity. Assuming I don't enlarge the CC to 225 with a piston upgrade ?

https://villiersservices.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8_92&products_id=794

66e4a8d7f1766febe91d2bc0b54c830d.image.4

Talk about a 1 Tyre fire!

it will be like those 1970's american movie police chases only in miniature! *squeeel*

bonus points if your chased by TPA with a police beacon mounted to the roof :mrgreen:

(I wonder how the piston upgrade changes cylinder capacity if it fits in the existing barrel?)

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At least you can get some number plates made up now you've got the V5 (well once it comes back anyway).

Regarding getting the erroneous/missing details updated I'd probably suggest sending them an E-Mail first.  Just explain that it's an unusual historic vehicle where a lot of the information was never recorded when the car was originally registered.  I suspect they'll ask you to fill in and return the V5 to update it but to include a covering letter explaining the situation.

Some day I might get in touch with them to see if I can get the wheelplan updated for TPA...purely because the "not recorded" on the V5 irritates my OCD.  I don't believe there is usually any mechanism for changing the vehicle make/model after the original registration...but it would be nice to get that correctly listed as well.  See earlier comment about OCD.  Plus the AC (Electric) thing initially caused confusion when I was trying to sort out insurance...

That's a looooooooong ways down the priority list though, so I might get to it somewhere around 2045. 

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48 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

I don't believe there is usually any mechanism for changing the vehicle make/model after the original registration...but it would be nice to get that correctly listed as well.  See earlier comment about OCD.  Plus the AC (Electric) thing initially caused confusion when I was trying to sort out insurance...

AFAIK, TPAs info regarding that is correct

all AC Vehicles from the 1960s to the early 1980's at least, where normally recorded as "AC (ELECTRIC)" for "make"

we dont know why, as the only electric vehicles AC made where some railbuses and the AC Model 64!

but thats how it is, and TPA is recorded correctly as that :) her "Model" info is today her body type

back in the old days the V5 for TPA would of most likely said "Make: AC (ELECTRIC) Model/Type: Invalid vehicle"

as seen here on the 1985 V5 I have for REV

image.thumb.png.6ed1a258cc3f5b5c11d84f7b10932e8b.png]

but then in later V5's etc Model and Type where split off into their own categories and "invalid vehicle" became a Body type

and 3-wheel became the wheel plan

leaving the "model" field blank (although modern V5s dont have a "model" field per say, just a type/variant field)

which you can see here in the Later V5s I have for REV

the year 2000 V5 is similar to the 1985 V5, but they had lost the ".2" Kg in the revenue weight and additional variant and version fields had been added (I imagine "variant" is what most people call "Model" and would be what shows up in the MOT checker for Model info etc)

444768164_ImagefromiOS(91).thumb.png.74ea7d19526da374ce33baf2819e02ff.png

and by 2012 the current layout was in place of splitting up the "make/type" field

image.thumb.png.a66421c83863c1add50a814490ed73fc.png

 

bringing us to the current 2019 format

 

image.png

 

 

so in that regard TPAs info is all correct :)

I have seen a lot worse!

Screenshot 2019-08-12 at 13.45.32.png

 

and see here for an entire list of DVLA fun LOL https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-invacar-model-70-acquired-and-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-phase-2-finding-a-suitable-driving-schoolinstructor-getting-lessons-and-a-licence-proof-of-h-and-j-reg-model-70s-discovered/?do=findComment&comment=1866752

 

 

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for the first time in almost 40 years she is taxed again! (you can SORN her now if you wish!)

 

screencapture-vehicleenquiry-service-gov-uk-ViewVehicle-2019-10-02-22_20_45.thumb.png.cfd34b13f083dbd3b963f603a218fbb6.png

 

its funny, people assume when a vehicle has been untaxed for many years that it has long since been scrapped, let alone when it does not show up on the DVLA at all, and while thats the case most of the time, just sometimes its not :) sometimes that vehicle does still exist somewhere stuck up a tree!

it does make me wonder of the 1000's of Invacars I have looked up on the DVLA I wonder how many do still exist somewhere and we just dont know about them yet

 

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Thanks for that, I did check earlier in the day and it was still showing as untaxed - so it's not something that updates at midnight or something. It's not on the MID database, the Hagerty T's and C's say that it will be added  - but it looks like a generic clause added to all policies . 

I'll give Hagerty a call to confirm whether this will count for the MID while I'm still in the policy cooling off period.

If it doesn't, I'll maybe change the policy, but more likely just SORN it again.

I can now say 'I've taxed worse' when heaps appear in the eBay tat thread with some justification ?

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53 minutes ago, egg said:

Thanks for that, I did check earlier in the day and it was still showing as untaxed - so it's not something that updates at midnight or something.

aye it updated sometime this evening as late afternoon I checked on it and it was not taxed then

(did so after I had a quick and dirty look for any Mk12's after the last known Mk12 block (which is PEV401K-PEV500K) I didn't find anything but im not surprised as theres a just under month gap between the end of the last Mk12 block and the first Invacar Model 70 block (PPU521K-PPU600K), which makes sense as I imagine it would of taken them about a month to get the Model 70 production line up and running after ending Mk12 production, I did go up in steps of 100 so there is a chance there could be a smaller then 100 cars block of Mk12's hiding in there but I dont think so)

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Hagerty have confirmed @Six-cylinder was correct that the car won't show as insured on the Motor Insurance Database, as if you have laid up insurance, the SORN should be a given of course.

So anyway, tried to SORN again on the same 11 number code, which was fine but...

Capture.thumb.JPG.4b7341fea3c246d5ff747ebc765ef1dc.JPG

Hagerty man said the MID isn't that fast, so I'll just try again to SORN in a few days, or give my old mates in Swansea a call again.

I could fill in a V890 SORN postal form for a belt and braces approach, 'tax is in the post guv'nor'

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2 hours ago, egg said:

Hagerty have confirmed @Six-cylinder was correct that the car won't show as insured on the Motor Insurance Database, as if you have laid up insurance, the SORN should be a given of course.

So anyway, tried to SORN again on the same 11 number code, which was fine but...

Capture.thumb.JPG.4b7341fea3c246d5ff747ebc765ef1dc.JPG

Hagerty man said the MID isn't that fast, so I'll just try again to SORN in a few days, or give my old mates in Swansea a call again.

I could fill in a V890 SORN postal form for a belt and braces approach, 'tax is in the post guv'nor'

I really would not worry

id just wait a few days then SORN it again as you say

id also not be surprised if it SORNs it self from your previous SORN attempt like what happened with TPA

as always Ill keep my eyes on it :) 

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1 hour ago, egg said:

And this evening we're on SORN (now it's been taxed SORN works ok). Admin progress. Let's hope I get the tax class change letter from the DVLA soon....

2051466363_SORN071019.thumb.JPG.13fb6d1ab486a840b75e161730e24946.JPG

happy to see things are working there as they should :) 

in celebration of getting the V5 in hand etc, here's one for the list :) 

PWC801, the oldest known surviving Invacar Mk12 :) (complete with engine size shenanigans like yours LOL)

 

 

screencapture-vehicleenquiry-service-gov-uk-ViewVehicle-2019-10-07-23_41_35.thumb.png.27a60fbade6904e97e4921170b1ceb19.png

rather curiously its chassis number is 81617 apparently which puts it right next to 81618 XGX224, what are the chances of that :) (and rather amusingly PWC801 is owned by ian hellings in the US LOL)

(for some reason the plate PWC801 looks awfully familiar like I have seen it before but I cant quite figure out where)

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  • 2 weeks later...

so just for giggles I put your Mk12 into the website I use to check previous owner count and current keeper acquisition dates

and rather amusingly for some reason it thinks its had 4 previous keepers and that you got it on 1st of the November 2006!

(i checked with another site and that also says 4 previous keepers)

 

image.thumb.png.b56d10744ff75d64c5bb17067e8d5fda.png

(side note I checked some early Model 70's through it and they also say "NOT KN0WN" for the engine number so it looks like your Mk12 is not alone there after all, but most other Model 70s wheres no engine no just have that field blank)

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Thanks - it's a 'data quality' nightmare. As I'm in the auditing trade, DVLA would be getting bad marks for their data accuracy :-).

Oh, No news on the tax class change - every day I start the 'tax a car' process - if it still works on the old V5 11 digit number (and says disabled tax) then I know they haven't re-issued it let..

I better go over to the lock up and check its still there to be honest, it's been weeks again...

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I found out today you can do online chat with the DVLA, you can even save the transcript - though that didn't work for me, and it just saved a blank text document.

Anyway, I spoke to Michael, because 

Quote

You’ll get a confirmation from DVLA within 10 working days that the change has been made.

Well, I hadn't had any news about my tax class change from 1 October. Michael could see that I had been to the post office (I guess when they scanned the V5) but they hadn't actioned the change, so he 'raised a case' and I should hear in 2-4 weeks. Every stage of this has been a bit painful! @Mrs6C do you have your new V5 with historic tax yet?

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1 minute ago, egg said:

I found out today you can do online chat with the DVLA, you can even save the transcript - though that didn't work for me, and it just saved a blank text document.

Anyway, I spoke to Michael, because 

Well, I hadn't had any news about my tax class change from 1 October. Michael could see that I had been to the post office (I guess when they scanned the V5) but they hadn't actioned the change, so he 'raised a case' and I should hear in 2-4 weeks. Every stage of this has been a bit painful! @Mrs6C do you have your new V5 with historic tax yet?

Nope, not yet...

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