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Invacar MK12 - New owner Mrs 6Cyl


egg

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if its any help it took about 4 weeks for MPH759P's V5 to show up if im reading the text message history correctly

(and that was after we got the reg wrong once before LOL) 

he was able to call the DVLA and track his application so @Six-cylinder you might be able to do the same for dolly :) 

 

also Woo! happy to see progress on the V62 for your Mk12 egg :) time to watch the DVLA checker like a hawk LOL

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@LightBulbFun - sorry if this has been dealt with on your thread - but does a new V5 in this instance come with the historic tax class in place, or am I now going to need to get it changed at the post office for tax and MOT exemption? (V112). @Zelandeth told me before, probably on this thread, but I can't remember.

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never seen a Mk12 V5 sadly let alone one thats dropped off the system like yours has, so we are both about to find out what that looks like hopefully!

but in terms of Model 70, they come with whatever tax class the last "keeper" put it in

so in the case of most Model 70's thats" Disabled" as for a disabled driver

so to Tax it yeah you will need to fill in a V112 and change it at the post office AFAIK, (im not sure what would happen if you tried to tax Model 70 thats still in the disabled tax class online, but to be lawful unless you are actually disabled, change it to historic)

but you only need to worry about that when you come to tax her, otherwise you can just SORN her and not worry about it

(its something Ill have to do with REV in time, but for now she is happily SORN :)

heres the latest V5 for REV for example

image.thumb.png.28c4f1fccf85d459408c906aa57d5255.png

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10 minutes ago, egg said:

@LightBulbFun - sorry if this has been dealt with on your thread - but does a new V5 in this instance come with the historic tax class in place, or am I now going to need to get it changed at the post office for tax and MOT exemption? (V112). @Zelandeth told me before, probably on this thread, but I can't remember.

When I have done it for cars that were PLG and have become tax free, the April after there 40th birthday I have not been able to change the tax class to historic until I taxed them at the post office who viewed my V112 form and kept my V5C. I then received in a couple of weeks a new V5C with tax class changed to Historic.

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Ok thanks, I expect it to come as disabled tax class then - assuming it went straight from it's end user to the scrap yard direct. I'd love to know when it did come off the road, whether in the mid-90s when most pre-model 70s did or later in 2003 with the big cull.

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well considering it is/was not on the DVLA database properly

its probably been off the road since the 1970s which makes its story/survival all the more interesting/intriguing :)

(from what I understand in the late 70s/80s when they digitised everything, if at the time a vehicle had not been taxed for so many years they didn't bother putting on the system)

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nothing on the DVLA yet, but checking what happened with MPH759P it took 4 days for the fact it was taxed to show up on the DVLA checker

(he taxed it on the 10th of the 5th 2019 and it showed up as taxed on the 14th if im reading things correctly)

I guess the question is will the DVLA only cash the check if the application was successful or will they take your money even if they cant give you a V5?

(but I imagine they would at least tell you about it!)

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On 8/16/2019 at 3:58 PM, plasticvandan said:

most villiers powered machines were scrapped in the late 70s early 80s, a few hung on till later if they were specially adapted etc.i would say yours has been dormant since 1980 or so.

yeah, it will be very interesting to see what its last taxed date is on the DVLA :) 

The Last villiers machine in government service was an AC Acedes JPE789C was in service right until the end on the isle of wight

happily in a museum now :) I do wonder if she was painted the wrong colour in service because by 2003 all they had was Model 70 blue rather then Mode 57 blue or if it happened after service by someone who didn't know!

5748305950_0f307779ab_o.thumb.jpg.e884f530c0e7c5accb3762f657005ac8.jpg

https://flic.kr/p/9KXz6h

 

a total of 3 Non Model 70's made it right until the end the other 2 Non Model 70's to survive right until the end was a Tippen Delta and an Electric Argson, I wanna know the story behind the Argson! the guy must of been about a million years old, if he was issued an argson back when they where current!

 

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Although we tend to associate Invacars with the elderly, some would have been issued to younger people with disabilities. 

On the subject of colour, is there a reason why light blue was the chosen colour?  I'm surprised they didn't go for a brighter more visible colour, such as orange to match the orange badge. 

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Aye indeed, however the Electric argson was only current until 1954, so assuming he was 18 when he got it and was one of the last people to get an electric argson, he would of been 64 by the time it was withdrawn, which is not unreasonable but I do wonder why he stuck with the Electric argson rather then upgrade to newer machines

I imagine most people associate invacars with the elderly because by the the end, although the users may have gotten them when they were young, they elderly by the time they had their invacars taken from them, keep in mind the invalid vehicle scheme closed to new applicants in July 1976 IIRC although curiously enough Model 70 production continued until March 1978...

 

as for the colour im not 100% sure myself I have heard of a few reasons thrown around but I dont know for sure sadly

and it was only the late 60's and later invalid vehicles that where this light blue colour, machines from before then where either darker shades of blue or just other colours entirely :) 

but since you mentioned orange :) 

FB_IMG_1559324799741.jpg.5e47a0b30c0b7f14a1bae64dc1940ab5.thumb.jpg.8f1e9bb957855b6f238df3fe1d78de33.jpg

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No V5 yet, and it has hit the 6 week mark, so called South Wales and spoke to lovely Claire.

I was on hold for a long time (probably 3-4 minutes) while she looked into it.

Claire came back to me and confirmed all my documentation has been received and they are looking into it and unfortunately it will take a bit longer than 6 weeks because they are confirming the registration with the original records. So this means they are also going back to Essex Council themselves, or maybe looking for a dusty file in the archives. Anyway, that's kind of good news, but it's obviously causing them a few headaches.

I think this experience helps explain why many of the surviving MK12's do not have a V5....

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9 hours ago, egg said:

No V5 yet, and it has hit the 6 week mark, so called South Wales and spoke to lovely Claire.

I was on hold for a long time (probably 3-4 minutes) while she looked into it.

Claire came back to me and confirmed all my documentation has been received and they are looking into it and unfortunately it will take a bit longer than 6 weeks because they are confirming the registration with the original records. So this means they are also going back to Essex Council themselves, or maybe looking for a dusty file in the archives. Anyway, that's kind of good news, but it's obviously causing them a few headaches.

I think this experience helps explain why many of the surviving MK12's do not have a V5....

ohh that's promising :)

I do wonder what other invalid vehicles the DVLA have partial records on like your Mk12, I wonder if the DLVA know when yours was last taxed? 

(i wonder how they ended up with a partial record, I always thought it was all or nothing)

 

9 hours ago, egg said:

I think this experience helps explain why many of the surviving MK12's do not have a V5....

well even before you get to the stage we/your at, a lot of pre Model 70's have lost their reg plates full stop, ie they where discovered like your Mk12 was, without any reg plates and just a VIN plate if lucky

and most people don't even know where to start in terms of registering them again, let alone the fact that pre Model 70 there isn't an easy way of figuring out a vehicles registration number, the information to triangulate to a number plate from a chassis number for examplejust is not there sadly

hell most people involved with Invacars barely even know how to handle a Model 70 that does still show up and has its registration number still, (see all the Q plates and ringers and ones registered as Tricycles etc etc) let alone a Mk12 thats lost its reg plate long ago, and does not show up on the DVLA LOL

I only know of 2 Fibreglass AC Acedes that show up on the DVLA at all (DPD715J and DPD778J) , and of the 4 known surviving Electric AC Acedes sadly none have a known registration number sadly for example

I do hope the Sussex records office is as good as the Essex records office in this regard! because id like to see those registered once more :) 

so yeah thats why a lot of surviving Mk12's (and AC Acedes) dont have any registration numbers

that and the fact that sadly a lot of surviving Villiers machines reside with people who have no interest in getting them back on the road :( 

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8 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

that and the fact that sadly a lot of surviving Villiers machines reside with people who have no interest in getting them back on the road :( 

Something you could help with as ICR registrar, or at least you could if the owners weren't the automotive equivalent of Mr Trebus.

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Angry.

The ICR did not respond to my request for help. OK, so.

Phoned the DVLA in early July - who said - send in a V62 with your supporting evidence - 'looks promising' we have a partial record - V62 sent around 6 July

Waited 6 weeks - nothing. Called on 6 weeks (20 Aug) - 'we have received your documents and are currently processing them - but it will take longer than 6 weeks I'm afraid because we are checking the original records'

Cheque for £25 taken.

9 weeks now, so called again today - we have no record of receiving any documentation from you, I don't know why your cheque has been taken, there is no record of your query on the system for this vehicle or your address - you can't get a V5 on this vehicle anyway using a V62, go back to the club...

In other words - complete load of crap all round.

Two options from here (a) letter of complaint to DVLA - only way to get stuff done in this country (b) Just do a V55 and get a new number.

Arse.

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9 minutes ago, egg said:

Angry.

The ICR did not respond to my request for help. OK, so.

Phoned the DVLA in early July - who said - send in a V62 with your supporting evidence - 'looks promising' we have a partial record - V62 sent around 6 July

Waited 6 weeks - nothing. Called on 6 weeks (20 Aug) - 'we have received your documents and are currently processing them - but it will take longer than 6 weeks I'm afraid because we are checking the original records'

Cheque for £25 taken.

9 weeks now, so called again today - we have no record of receiving any documentation from you, I don't know why your cheque has been taken, there is no record of your query on the system for this vehicle or your address - you can't get a V5 on this vehicle anyway using a V62, go back to the club...

In other words - complete load of crap all round.

Two options from here (a) letter of complaint to DVLA - only way to get stuff done in this country (b) Just do a V55 and get a new number.

Arse.

 

thats fucking awful!

if they cashed your £25 cheque without any record of docs from you then is that even legal? since you paid for a service but never had said service delivered

I would say before getting too drastic tho, try call up say tomorrow or so and hope you get another person

from what I understand with the DVLA etc how far you get can vary a lot on the person you speak to

(also if you remember the name of the person you spoke to last time you had good news, maybe ask if you can speak to them again?)

 

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Oh, for a bit of balance - the guy who papped this MK12 year's ago (2011)is going to see if it is still there and speak to the owner for me :-)

So thanks to LBF for finding that pic.

69460740_382860339055740_5630433474851635200_n.jpg.59fafea4a11357b5c0655837b0531761.jpg

happy to see that theres a Lead on this one :) 

hopefully its still there and can be saved, or has already been saved :) 

did he tell you where it was or how he came across it?

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No further info at this stage - but just nice of him to reply at all.

I agree - I'm going to call DVLA again later/tomorrow and see if I can get a different story.

I think with public services - delays are tolerable, but when you get these different messages from different people depending on which way the wind blows (or which internal training course they have been on) it gets my goat! I know you will sympathise LBF having had your own issues with 'the man'!

 

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27 minutes ago, egg said:

No further info at this stage - but just nice of him to reply at all.

I agree - I'm going to call DVLA again later/tomorrow and see if I can get a different story.

I think with public services - delays are tolerable, but when you get these different messages from different people depending on which way the wind blows (or which internal training course they have been on) it gets my goat! I know you will sympathise LBF having had your own issues with 'the man'!

 

Yeah I agree its nice that they responded in the first place, much like when I found the First Mk12, and we all know how that went :mrgreen:

 

 

indeed I sympathise a lot with you and it also pisses me off a lot as I have had all this Bullshit when dealing with the government with my own issues sadly,

I think the worst 2 that come to mind are when I went for a operation on my foot (due to stepping on a bit of broken glass that decided to not come out)

and it turned out that someone somewhere forgot to put a single sheet of paper somewhere, so my operation was never booked in and the surgeon was going on holiday the next day, so I would not be able to be booked in for another 6 weeks or something

mum fucking hit the roof that day, I think they finally put me in when mum threatened legal action to the head of the hospital

 

second more recent time is when I went for a ESA assessment, and I thought ah this one went quite well for a change, and we were pretty confident about it, only to be sent a text message that we had an ESA assessment like 1 week afterwards

so we called and asked "whats this about?! " and it turned out that due to a "computer issue" on their end that assessment was void, so they just booked me in for another one, without any consideration for my back and how hard and painful it is for my to travel, we were able to get them to rebook it for a couple more weeks later at least

but then that assessment went quite poorly sadly to add insult to injury (and of course no such computer issue happened this time LOL)

 

But I think the worst of them all, was the fact that because I was born early, I was supposed to be scanned for CP when I was quite young, but this just never happened

had it actually happened it would of saved me and mum SO MUCH trouble/time/pain when I fell off the wall and did my back in (because the doctors could not figure out what the hell was wrong with my back exactly and why it was not healing, until a neurologist said hang on lets do a MRI of my brain, where we discovered that I have CP which pretty much explained everything)

or how about when they almost killed me by almost giving me the wrong blood type when I needed a transfusion when I was born!

I could rant on for hours but I best shut up now LOL

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2 hours ago, egg said:

.... with public services - delays are tolerable, but when you get these different messages from different people depending on which way the wind blows (or which internal training course they have been on) it gets my goat! ....

A client and I both called HMRC on three separate occasions each to ask the same question about Capital Gains Tax. We compared notes and realised we now had six different answers.....

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Called again this afternoon - asking specifically, why have you cashed my cheque?

Anyway, again I got a different message - there is evidence on the vehicle history that the 'vehicles team' has been going 'in and out' of the record - but then vague references were made to old records in the basement, pre-DVLC etc

Apparently the partial record tells them only that the registration number was once issued - and not much more than that (although he did ask me to name the car make, so that must be on there too)

In summary - it was 'keep waiting it will probably turn up'.

I'll give it another 10 days and then sharpen my complaints pencil ?

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20 minutes ago, egg said:

Called again this afternoon - asking specifically, why have you cashed my cheque?

Anyway, again I got a different message - there is evidence on the vehicle history that the 'vehicles team' has been going 'in and out' of the record - but then vague references were made to old records in the basement, pre-DVLC etc

Apparently the partial record tells them only that the registration number was once issued - and not much more than that (although he did ask me to name the car make, so that must be on there too)

In summary - it was 'keep waiting it will probably turn up'.

I'll give it another 10 days and then sharpen my complaints pencil ?

Progress I guess at least!

interesting to hear that there is "basement" with pre DVLC stuff in it

im really curious what they have in there

stuarts Harding is a G reg one (which is part of the mystery we are trying to solve on that one) it being registried even later then your Mk12 makes me wonder if the DVLA do have info on it

this also makes me wonder how many cars/reg numbers have been "incorrectly" V765ed when they could of been V62ed instead!

 

up until this Mk12, I had thought if a reg of a vintage car did not show up on the DVLA, that they just did not have any info on it and you would have to V765 it etc

so its very interesting to hear the DVLA does have something its good news for other cars and other invacars etc :) 

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Taking a step back and looking at it from DVLA's perspective (which is always a good life skill to remember when one is angry!)

- I'm calling a generic vehicle enquiry line

- Their normal business is 'I moved house, and lost the V5 for my Fiesta Ecoboost' - so I'm not surprised they are a bit confused by my request for info on 50 year old 3 wheeler that may have been off the road for decades

- the normal route is the V765 as you suggest LBF.  If I had support from the ICR for that my form would probably end up with another team who are a bit more used to dealing with this situation. 

- However, I perfectly respect the ICR's objective of promoting the history and social side of disabled vehicles, I think that goes a long way to answer the qualms that Bornite and others have about their preservation. In addition, they are a register and not an owner's club - and  just like Autoshite - that makes me just a 'guest' and not a 'stakeholder'.  But, unfortunately without the support of the ICR, I can't seem to get this car registered (with it's original plate).

Anyway - I could shoot off an email to the RUMcar people, they may be able to help me and they are DVLA registered.

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2 hours ago, egg said:

and not an owner's club

the DVLA begs to differ! (bottom of page 7)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/804458/v765x1-list-of-vehicle-owners-clubs.pdf

as you say I I respect what the the ICR is doing regard History and Social history side of things

but its the fact they are letting the actual preservation and helping of people with Invalid vehicles go to the toilet is what gets on my tits so to speak

especially as thats what the ICR was originally set up for, 

hence why im quite eager to try and get onboard the ICR, because then Simon can go do his Social histories stuff unabated while I handle the preservation and helping of people with Invalid vehicles etc :) 

no offence to Simon, but I dont think he is as into invalid vehicles as me and stuart are sadly, for example with OYP595, he (simon) never actually bothered to actually check the vehicle out on the DVLA! and he always thought that OYP595 was just an age related plate, and he never knew it had been rung or why it was even rung in the first place, and if your the head of the group that represents these vehicles I think you really should know this stuff! so that came as a bit of a shock to me, its pretty clear that Simon is in it so to speak for the social histories etc of it, rather then the actual vehicles themselves etc, which like I said is fine on its own, but if your also responsible for the group that handles the actual vehicles and are the official group that represents them then It becomes a problem IMHO on OYP595 the last owner change was in 2005, so I dont think Simon even has the V5 for it etc, I did show simon where the chassis numbers where on a Model 70 and he said he will check for me so I look forward to that :) 

anyways I best shut up again LOL

 

on the V765 front, its worth noting that when you do that, you are registering the vehicle for the first time like as if you had just imported a car from a foreign country or are buying one new etc, the only major difference here is your using the V765 to say "it was issued this reg back in the day can I have it assigned to my car when it gets registered please!"

its for this reason that I do hope the V62 goes through because if original registration information exists for XWC then I would like to see it being used, as it would of been the info as supplied by Invacar and original to the vehicle etc :)

(you fill in a V765 with a V55/4 and you have to supply all the vehicle info yourself, and while I can make a good guess as to what you would put down for a Invacar Mk12c I cant say for 100% for example what the Revenue weight would be etc)

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