Garden Shed

[Joloke]

Forks and Rakes


 

[michael t]

I'm sure I've seen that instrument arrangement before...

 

 

 

 

[rainagain]

I personally think they’re great, you can configure your own ideal dash, what’s not to like?

[Liggle]

I'm a big fan, drove a VW with Virtual Cockpit a couple of months back, very nice feature. Most new cars come with some form of touchscreen now, even low end stuff. 

[barefoot]

I personally think they’re great, you can configure your own ideal dash, what’s not to like?

 

 

But there's no need to 'configure your own ideal dash'.

 

It's just choice for the sake of choice.

If there wasn't so much choice, when these trousers wear out, I'd be able to go back to the shop & buy another pair.

Now I'll have the choice of two pairs, both of which will be similar and improved, but not the same...

[davehedgehog31]

I hate them personally, I think they light up the inside of the car and hamper visibility. 

 

Riding a motorbike I noticed lots of people distracted beyond belief, trying to operate a fannypad instead of concentrating on the road.

[Noel Tidybeard]

i suppose it would give you the option of changing the dial colour, fed up with white, orange, red, blue*

 

seeing green in a skoda labia is such a refreshing change!

 

*although the spaceship has blue its not as IN YOUR FACE as some

[MorrisItalSLX]

My kind of digital dashboard.

 

 

 

 

Why did we even have analog dials post 1980?

[MorrisItalSLX]

I’m not a fan of the iPad dash either, hopefully they are just a fad like the 7-segment digi-dash of the 80’s.

 

But I highly doubt they will fade away when people are bored of them, as sad as that may be.

 

But we can only hope!

[sierraman]

I think there alright. A compass would handy.

[martc]

Form over function - just look at the reflections on the screens. Get a few greasy finger prints on it and a low sun and it'll be unreadable.

 

There is a reason why instruments are buried in a cowl and the 'glass' is angled.

[lesapandre]

Who fixes all this stuff when it goes wrong? It seems more complexity for not much gain...but I'm old. Took my 1989 Merc 260 out for the first time in months last week. With a fresh battery off we went on 100 mile round trip including round the M25. Will this stuff work perfectly in 29 years. Rear lightbulb was out when I got back. 2 mins to check the bulb and a new fuse and perfect. I love old Mercs. New ones do nothing for me.

[Bucketeer]

Ive been moved

 

I never saw that coming

Those forum fascists have moved my thread about MODERN instruments into the MODERN section, how dare they! Why are they persecuting me?

They've moved or merged many of my previous threads which were mainly just statements of how I don't like modern things. Just because everyone else would make these statements as a post in the Grumpy Thread, why should I? I am more important than that. It's so unfair. Etc, etc, etc.

[SierraMikeHotel]

The question with this sort of thing is always: is it better? Jo prefers analogue gauges - fair enough, we've all got our preferences.

 

Modern "analogue" gauges are driven by computer anyway - even on '90s tech stuff like my Saab (you can demonstrate this by hitting the Night Panel button, the gauges don't just go dim but drop to zero).

 

Is canbus more reliable than rotating cables? I would have thought so, to be honest.

 

Is a screen clearer to read than analogue gauges? Well, a decent quality, modern screen like the ones Merc use probably is.

 

Will everyone adopt them? As they become cheaper we'll certainly see more of them in everyday stuff. I bet sports cars will continue to have gauges though.

 

Personally I like the option of having extra data right in front of me - I like having the economy screen there, Mrs H likes the big digital speed repeater. A proper sat nav screen would be nice but the implementation in the Merc is a bit crap.

 

It's customisable so if it annoys you just have it off, or switched to a screen that doesn't change much (like the clock or outside temperature).

 

I'm not a fan of the styling and I agree it looks like it's been glued on as an afterthought but I like the idea.

[Liggle]

I think there alright. A compass would handy.

The newer VAG Maxidot screens have this, you can also have it overlay the Sat-Nav screen if required

 

The tech and data aspects appeal to me the most, not bothered about the styling side of it. 

[Tayne]

We were bored yesterday so went around a few car dealerships to Windowshop Browse as you do on a Sunday and fell into a Mercedes Benz dealer

 

Whilst looking at the overpriced new wotsits we looked into an A class and were greeted by this

 

 

Now I know many other manufacturers have played about with these virtual reality tv screen dashes built into the conventional dash shell but this was litterally like half a dozen Ipods stuck together just awkwardly sitting atop the dash.

 

 

 

 

Looks more like two iPads to me.

 

Are you counting the vents as iPads?

[Tayne]

With me I just like a car dash to be a car dash makes it feel too much like your sat at a desk at home in front of a monitor

 

 

 

Is your desk at home in a room the size of a car interior?

With moving scenery outside the large windows?

And does it make engine noises?

 

 

 

Kind of irrelevant though isn't it?

I very much doubt you buy a new car.

[sierraman]

Who fixes all this stuff when it goes wrong? It seems more complexity for not much gain...but I'm old. Took my 1989 Merc 260 out for the first time in months last week. With a fresh battery off we went on 100 mile round trip including round the M25. Will this stuff work perfectly in 29 years. Rear lightbulb was out when I got back. 2 mins to check the bulb and a new fuse and perfect. I love old Mercs. New ones do nothing for me.

The conventional instrument pack in my Focus is prone to failure. You send it off to be repaired for £50 and it’s posted back to you to refit. Same would apply here I think.

[Jazoli]

I think the new Mercedes dashboards are fantastic

 

 

 

 

I would love to be able to afford one.

 

My bosses passat does away with traditional dials and also looks great

 

[Kiltox]

This was a logical progression once we started seeing speed sensors replace speedo cables - the digital signal is converted back to an “analog” dial sweep in most cars built in the past 20+ years.

[SierraMikeHotel]

I think the new Mercedes dashboards are fantastic.

 

.....

 

I would love to be able to afford one.

 

My bosses passat does away with traditional dials and also looks great

That's very nice. Looks properly integrated, designed in rather than stuck on. Lovely.

 

That Passat screen has everything I'd want directly in front of my eyes. That's a really nice piece of design imo.

[SiC]

Manufacturers like these digital dashes as one big TFT screen is so much cheaper to produce than many dials. With each dial having different units and languages per country. Also with quite a few moving parts. Also varying the amount of dials depending on spec level.

 

A big TFT however is completely customisable - no matter the requirements. Cost wise they're a cheap commodity item nowadays too. As it's one slab of plastic and silicon, they are easy to mount and don't suffer from vibration or other such problems. So integration and production costs are less.

 

Being that it's very shiny, customers love them too. So a no brainer for manufacturers to use them.

[oldcars]

Not for me. But then i get annoyed when there is no volt meter, no i feel i am not the target market for an ipad on wheels.

[forddeliveryboy]

No problem in a modern car, it'd be a bit false not to. But I'd want a little knurled wheel to override the auto brightness rather than access to a menu and sub menu then a swipage.

 

Where's the progress, though? These are just aping what's gone before - HUDs should be standard across all cars by now, with augmented vision to boot.

[rantingYoof]

I love the way some of them look.

 

I wouldn't want to buy a 12 year old one, but that may be based on irrational fear.

 

I do prefer buttons for some key functions though. It's a bit rich stinging driver X (quite rightly) for using their phone while driving but driver Y gets away with essentially the same motions and same level of distraction trying to change where air vents are pointing.

 

And yes, I'm a hypocrite with my 20 year old touch screen...

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[SiC]

I wouldn't want to buy a 12 year old one, but that may be based on irrational fear.

 

To look at it another way, dashes have been electronic for decades. Just instead of a big screen, they control stepper motors that point. Admittedly the processing power has gone up and the software complexity too however they still are required to achieve the same safety standards. Standards that dictate on how the software is written and if it does fail, how it fails safely.

 

There is a lot of research going on with driver distraction. I won't be surprised if we start having more stuff locked out when driving. Also if safety standards start specifying usability. We also need better user interfaces, many are shockingly terrible.

[SierraMikeHotel]

I do prefer buttons for some key functions though. It's a bit rich stinging driver X (quite rightly) for using their phone while driving but driver Y gets away with essentially the same motions and same level of distraction trying to change where air vents are pointing.

 

This is the problem, for me.

 

NewMerc at least has physical controls for the heating, but the display that tells you what temperature you've selected changes depending where you are in the system.  OldMerc has rotary dials with numbers printed next to them, which to me is better (although they are a bit small and fiddly) - changing the heat is one of the real fundamentals, so when you've got used to your car you should be able to do it by muscle memory and feel without taking your eyes off the road.

 

Likewise the buttons to clear the front and rear screens should be really close to hand - to my mind only Citroën ever got this right, keeping them around the instrument binnacle in most of their '80s-'90s stuff.  In most cars they're buried down behind the gear lever somewhere so you have to look down to hit them.

 

Car designers are really feeling their way their way with this stuff.  To my mind, the ergonomics are the only thing that let NewMerc down: there's a big bank of switches which look great but I can never remember what order they're in so I have to look down, and the telephone dial control for the computer is just really fucking dreadful.  Which is a shame, because Apple, Google and Microsoft have been pouring money and expertise into this stuff for decades now.  Car manufacturers should really be contracting this stuff out as they're lagging way behind.

 

So you're a car maker: You could, today, put any control and any display anywhere in the car that you want.  They don't depend on physical connections any more so the gear selector doesn't have to be on the floor.  I reckon NewMerc has got that right with the column shifter - it's really convenient.  Otherwise though they're still flailing about and I think we'll laugh at these early efforts.

 

Fantasy dash, as a quick thought:  NewMerc style column shift.  Steering wheel buttons are volume up/down and next/last track for the stereo (doubling as next/last radio station).  Merc style stalk for the cruise control.  Buttons around the binnacle, Citroën BX/ZX style for important stuff like screen clearing and hazards, within fingertip reach.  In addition to that, there should be one button to clear the windows - not a separate front and rear.  Then one button to go back to Auto when they're clear.  Merc style rotary switch for the lights - turn for headlamps, pull for fogs.

 

A central touch screen for the more complex stuff like settings and sat nav - stuff that you can do when at rest.

 

Set your destination on the central touch screen, but the display should be between the dials like that Passat above.

 

If you really must talk on the phone while you're driving it should all be voice controlled.  Voice control is in its infancy but it's capable of learning the names you have in your phone memory.

 

TL; DR: car ergonomics could be at a really positive turning point, but car manufacturers are still blundering about a bit.

 

Oh - for a review of the A-Class with some slightly more flattering photos of the interior click here.

[CortinaDave]

I like a digi dash in the style of a late naughties Civic... but I can't stand some recent cars which look like they have an ipad just stuck to the windscreen.

 

I was in a 2 or 3 year old A class recently and the infotainment system looks like its a halfords bought afterthought

[SiC]

Since having cars with (working) climate control and air conditioning, I've never had to put on the front air or rear defrost while driving. I've only ever had to put them on at the start of a journey then once clear, just hit the auto button. Actually most modern cars will automatically put on the rear + wing mirror defrost if it's low temperatures outside - even if it doesn't light up indicators to tell you this.

[Pillock]

I'd hazard a guess that the cost of an LCD screen (which won't be an amazing one, it doesn't need to be iPad quality) is probably less than a traditional set of gauges with motors and stuff.

 

Amazon can knock out Kindle Fires each Christmas for £39 and make a profit, the screens are probably a tenner each when you're buying half a million of them. Software, well that'll cost pennies once and then even less to rejig for each new model.

 

As for the why? They look good, in fact you can make it look however you want. If only they'd let you upload your own files to completely customise it... But instead of putting up with the manufacturer guessing where you want the dials, they can just code dozens of different layouts. When I'm commuting I don't really need a rev counter, I need speed and probably fuel and a sat nav map. Perhaps I'll swap it for a huge tachometer if I wanted to play silly buggers.

 

Who'll fix it when it goes wrong? You'll just get a new screen for peanuts instead of an expensive instrument cluster. It'll be easier to make compatible third party parts, I'd have thought.