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wanted an invacar AC Model 70 and general ramble thread, index on page 1, 2 Potential Model 70's located page 46, and TWC says hello! :)

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17 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

very cool! I thought one of the regs looked familiar, close but not quite! :) indeed those are AC Acedes (Mk15s most likely) Model 67s 

 

image.png.5e37fc26ad632c21d203ca6f624398d7.png

(I still wonder what the L reg Model 70 is about on the far left, given its on white on black plates)

looks like these are at Coventry as well

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15 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Not much room for the cornertaker! They're parked practically on the touchline! :D

I doubt the people in the invacar are complaining!

manoeuvring them into position must of been fun :) I wonder if any poor footballer has ever been run over/hit by a run away invacar or someone getting a bit too excited/pissed off LOL (apparently invacars where good at stopping pitch invasions!)

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Heres a fun one for the Routemaster enthusiasts (aka @Yoss and me :mrgreen:)

NOO800M (if chassis numbers are to believed) is the 2760th Invacar Model 70 :)

I was looking at my chassis number lists, and realised I did not have a single M reg Invacar Model 70 in my list so decided to correct that and settled on the N00-M block to smash into the DVLA, only found one that survived into VIN pull up range, NOO791M but its not hard to extrapolate from there when I saw what its chassis number was :), worth noting NOO738M actually survive to this day I think, but sadly its part of the 2017 field consignment where details are non existent, and it was last taxed in Y2K so I cant pull up its chassis number) 

image.thumb.png.4666a8fa2b4fea3ec014e3e8cce7657a.png

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24 minutes ago, dollywobbler said:

Here are a few from Facebook of TWC's nose.

24231869_10155949260943200_5349870829849

26165283_10156036251673200_7172525802255

Not much of a mould line going on...

26991973_10156117383928200_3988939007314

 

 

ah my bad I should of been clearer, the mould lines im referring to are on the rear of the Model 70 :) (those head lamp trim rings could be sold as modern art! :mrgreen: )

 heres a picture of one of TPAs rear mould lines that I took last time I was at Zels place

image.thumb.png.b6b392f2f6af00327b6db0afac582f28.png

 

 

(the front Mould lines where eliminated with the AC Acedes Mk15, and of course the Model 70 shares much of its body shell design from that car and as such also has no front mould lines)

for reference :),

heres a Mk14

image.thumb.png.e0a7bbab5d6529fe3df8ea54a98e92d5.png

 

and heres a Mk15 

1965AC_Acedes_Invalid_Tricycle.thumb.jpeg.46b436f0042d7160337140d456b90d53.jpeg

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ah very cool! thank you for those :) (I should of known to look back at your thread from when you where recommissioning TWC)

the mould lines look the same as whats on TPA, so I wonder what Fraser is on about about the Invacar ones being different

(either things changed during production, or TWC has the arse from an AC? Mysteries of the Model 70!)

for comparison sake here is also an over view short of TPAs rear end

CCBD6FC7-BBED-4DF4-A385-F0032E61B409.jpeg

speaking of Model 70 pictures, just a gentle reminder, when your done settling down from shitefest, dont forget to upload those TJN352R pictures for me please! :)

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more hand propelled goodness :) 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143286998850

its very interesting to see the little government property "VIN plate" it has, I was not actually sure if hand propelled machines where given out by the MoH and I certainly was not aware that they where part of the Model xx naming scheme, however thinking about it, it sort of makes sense as I have heard wheel chair clamps in invalid vehicles being described as for "a Model 8 wheel chair" and if things as simple as wheel chairs where part of the whole Model thing then id expect hand propelled invalid carriages to be part of it too. but its still very interesting to see (the Chart I have on hand "only" goes back to the Model 39 which is just described as "various early petrol vehicles")

image.thumb.png.144db244897a88993f7852056396c790.png

 

280809700_s-l1600(11).thumb.jpg.616196fcb784cfce242b9c672aae84a6.jpg

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Just wondering anyone has any quick thoughts on something

I called the person with the 2 Model 70s on the 13th of may, and I had a good conversation with the person as I posted here

then on the 17th I sent him a email asking for some pictures/more details, to which he responded "Sorry up to my eyes at the moment will let you know when free"

then on the 6th of june I sent him another email as a quick reminder that I am still interested etc 

but I have not heard anything back since then, I have been wondering if I should give the guy another call or something?

but I dont want to piss anyone off, so im just wondering what others might do in this situation?

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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133077374211

I had read that in roughly Y2K or so, the order went out to replace all Model 70 floors with ally versions, yet the listing says its a stainless steel? so I wonder what was actually fitted?

granted "Model 70 floor", is one way to describe a square of metal sheet that you can easily buy from a local sheet metal supplier i imagine LOL

606409443_s-l1600(2).thumb.jpg.d6cd675a8bca0bbdc6fe7fce87d5f8bc.jpg

 

as side note I found the screen shot someone took of when KPL was for sale, notice the Mk12 poking into shot :)

image.thumb.png.3329233af28c9bc8b262ec12b872afee.png

turns out it was in my Invacar photos folder, I was trying to find it online, it begs the question where DID I find it then LOL the file name tells me I saved it from a facebook post of some sort...

 

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6 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

so im just wondering what others might do in this situation?

Hard to say. Sometimes these things work best if you get the deal done on the first contact, obviously you're past that point now. 

But in this case, you might need to be slow and patient. It could be one of those reluctant sales. To be honest, even with that breakers yard in Norwich (and as many will tell you, breakers are not sentimental!), I had to take it a step at a time...(probably half dozen calls from initial contact to delivery day)

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12 minutes ago, egg said:

Hard to say. Sometimes these things work best if you get the deal done on the first contact, obviously you're past that point now. 

But in this case, you might need to be slow and patient. It could be one of those reluctant sales. To be honest, even with that breakers yard in Norwich (and as many will tell you, breakers are not sentimental!), I had to take it a step at a time...(probably half dozen calls from initial contact to delivery day)

Yeah, id of loved to have sealed a deal on first contact, but sadly I lack the moneys to do have done that (if anyone is interested in going half and half over these 2 Model 70's do let me know! I have had a couple people approach me but currently everyones gone silent)

I think if I dont hear back on the email end soon, ill give him a call at the end of this week or the start of next (as by that point it will have been a month since I sent the email)

speaking of it reminded me, when the microcar people announced the National Microcar Rally 2019, DW mentioned it here and said 

On 1/24/2019 at 8:52 PM, dollywobbler said:

Just discovered the National Microcar Rally is in Somerset this year. Regardless of whether you've got one by then LightBulbFan, I think you should try to find a way to be there. 

I will say, me owning a Model 70 by then is looking much more realistic then it was at the start of the year when he posted that, it would be very cool to turn up to the event in my very own Model 70 :) (although the event is now only 3 months away and I dont even have a full driving licence yet!)

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finally found a proper photo of this Model 70 :) I have seen it in a youtube video and in a magazine, so happy to have finally got a proper picture of it, its a shame its wearing false plates, as I really dont know much about this one, I think its in austria?

http://www.voz.co.at/Gallery/Steyr-Puch/page-0072.htm

picture-0072.jpg.59d9ca27bf27fd89b691caae43d4fdfc.jpg

 

from what I can tell its a fairly late AC Model 70, I noticed that a lot of late Model 70s have door mounted mirrors rather then wing mounted mirrors, you can also make out a head liner, (one similar to whats in TWC I think? interestingly enough)

(im not 100% sure if the door mounted mirror thing was a factory thing or something done later, by the ministry/the shops that maintained them, but I have only ever seen it done to R and S reg Model 70s although ill have to check my main images archive when Im back on my main computer)

 

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nope not a late Model 70 LOL, just discovered this picture on the same website, note the small sized Speedo, which was replaced in 1975 or so with a larger unit

image.png.80696b396e66d9ef0ebf863d7997411d.png

it is interesting to see that someones removed the "passenger carrying is forbidden" sign and under it is a hole for if the hand brake was on the left side

edit: this is a bit of a giggle https://www.seiberer.at/cms/ergebnisse2004.html?&kl=12&sid=419 one of the vehicles in that list is not quite like the others :mrgreen:

image.png.aea6c0894511b90a01471714692d5414.png

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On 6/10/2019 at 12:20 AM, LightBulbFun said:

 

 

ah my bad I should of been clearer, the mould lines im referring to are on the rear of the Model 70 :) (those head lamp trim rings could be sold as modern art! :mrgreen: )

 heres a picture of one of TPAs rear mould lines that I took last time I was at Zels place

image.thumb.png.b6b392f2f6af00327b6db0afac582f28.png

 

 

(the front Mould lines where eliminated with the AC Acedes Mk15, and of course the Model 70 shares much of its body shell design from that car and as such also has no front mould lines)

for reference :),

heres a Mk14

image.thumb.png.e0a7bbab5d6529fe3df8ea54a98e92d5.png

 

and heres a Mk15 

1965AC_Acedes_Invalid_Tricycle.thumb.jpeg.46b436f0042d7160337140d456b90d53.jpeg

Are you sure they are moulding marks.

To me, they look like where separate panels were joined together to make a complete section.

When making moulds, it's far easier to have a smooth profile so it comes out of the former easily. Cutting a slot in the former to make that ridge makes no sense at all and simply makes thing more difficult.

Glass fibre technology progressed rapidly in the 60's, making larger moulds possible. I wonder who built the sections.

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2 hours ago, busmansholiday said:

Are you sure they are moulding marks.

To me, they look like where separate panels were joined together to make a complete section.

When making moulds, it's far easier to have a smooth profile so it comes out of the former easily. Cutting a slot in the former to make that ridge makes no sense at all and simply makes thing more difficult.

Glass fibre technology progressed rapidly in the 60's, making larger moulds possible. I wonder who built the sections.

thats sort of what I meant by moulding marks, where 2 bits joined together

since I figured they could not mould such a large and complicated section in 1 go so they had to make it up of multiple panels joined together which causes the lines :)

I guess a better name for them would be seam lines or something? :) (like what Minis have)

(I wonder if with the Mk15/ Model 70, if they finally figured out how to mould the front end in 1 go or if they just went through the trouble of removing the seam lines after joining the panels?)

I too wonder who made the panels on ebay, im curious if before production ended they stock pilled a bunch of body sections, or if after Model 70 production ended, they setup a small factory somewhere to churn out replacement panels a bit like how you can get new Mini and MGB shells/panels today

(although after the IVS closed to new applicants there pretty much would of always been a surplus of Model 70s as people moved to mobility so I imagine they could of used those to replace vehicles that had been damaged, but this IS the government we are talking about here LOL)

I know during production AC made its own panels, as its mentioned in that book above, and im pretty sure Invacar did too (hence why im curious about the report that the seam lines are different between AC and Invacar, or at least thats whats reported, TWCs seam lines look the same as TPAs ones to me! and sadly the guy who reported that, just shaved the seam lines off his Invacar Model 70 *grumble* )

 

as a side note on people giving up their Model 70's, from my DVLA bashing it looks like the Majority of Model 70s where scrapped (well last taxed) in the Mid to late 80s, so most lasted about 10 years, which I think was pretty respectable for a car back then LOL (and I imagine most of those where given up by their users as they went onto motability schemes, rather then scrapped because they where at EOL)

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so I was looking at this blog post again https://petrolblog.com/2010/05/whatever-happened-to-the-ac-invacar

and I noticed the fresh comment left today (as a side note im pretty sure the guy who runs? the blog is on Autoshite :)

so I decided to leave a response, I figured I should make an effort to try and clear up some of the common misconceptions people have regarding invalid vehicles :) bellow is my response, does it make sense at all? LOL (sadly I cant seem to edit it otherwise id fix the spellchecker fails!) its waiting for approval hence why its not popped up yet on the blog post I think

 

Quote

its a very common misconception that the invalid carriage was illegal to own privately and drive on the road, but thats simply not true

invalid carriages where never actually banned from the road in 2003, its just the fact that 99% of the invalid vehicles on the road by 2003 where owned by the government and they as the owners of the cars decided withdraw and crush all the ones that they owned which happened to be almost all on the road at the time, but the vehicle type was never banned by the government from the roads or such (that would of been very unfair to those who owned private ones for example, you could outright buy an invalid carriage new privately direct from the manufacture back in the day if you really wanted too! but as you could also get one free from the government, very few people did, so privately owned invalid carriages where always very rare)

but as 99% where government owned it made it look like they where banned from the road because they all suddenly vanished if that makes sense 🙂 its also worth noting all surviving Invalid carriages that where once owned by the government are no longer owned by the government since the invalid vehicle service ceased to exist since 2004, and have always been fully legal to own and drive on the road since then

its also a common misconception that you have to change the body type on the V5 from “invalid vehicle” to “Tricycle”, it stems from the fact that they where taxed as “disabled” because the users where disabled, but if your not disabled then you have to change the tax class, and before the historic tax class was introduced, invalid carriages fell into the Tricycle tax class like a reliant robin, many people took this to also mean you had to change the body type to “Tricycle” as well which as I said you dont you have to do, you only have to change the Tax class not the body type 🙂

all this means if you do own an invalid carriage you want to return to the road, all you have to do is apply for the V5, and once you have the V5, change the tax class from “Disabled” to historic 🙂 (you dont have to do anything)

(and if you do own an invalid carriage of some kind do feel free to contact me, im a big invalid carriage enthusiast (focusing on Model 70’s) and am heavily involved with invalid carriage “scene” if you want to call it that!,

so im always interested to hear about ones people own! especially as I keep a running list of all Surviving AC and Invacar Mode 70’s)

for those wondering the last government owned invalid vehicle to be withdrawn, was an Invacar Model 70, TJN352R which was withdrawn on the 14th of October 2004, which is happily persevered in the coventry motor museum now 🙂

(I Probably should of had this proof read here before posting it on the blog but ah well LOL)

this does drive home the point that I really need to setup some sort of website one of these days that I can link people to :)

(as I dont think linking people to a 50 page forum thread is a particularly great idea LOL)

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10 minutes ago, dollywobbler said:

If Zel can make the National Microcar Rally, we should have at least three Invacars there, as Mark from Kent has apparently booked his in too!

which one? he has about 15 last I checked :mrgreen: (on a more serious note IIRC his running Model 70 is MHJ22P from Barry) 

if you do get a chance to talk to him at some point please ask him for me if he could take photos of the chassis numbers on the chassis and pictures of the VIN plates of his field of Model 70s for my records please! (especially as while I have most of the field find Model 70s IDed, there where a few there with no reg plates whos chassis numbers id like to know so I can try and ID them for my records) I have tried to message him via facebook but sadly I have not heard back

really am hoping I can make to the NMR, its quite a distance away from me, so if im not running around in my own Model 70 by then, figuring out transportation to  it is going to be fun* LOL

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On 5/23/2019 at 12:05 PM, LightBulbFun said:

also for @OliD-E an N Reg AC Model 70 on 10 inch wheels, so probably means KPL would of indeed been on 10 inch wheels as well (also lends credence that Model 70,s jumped from 12 to 10 inch wheels around about 1973)

 

just to further clarify/update this it looks like the changeover from 12 inch to 10 inch wheels happened around June-July 1974 (which I think is when some other changes to the Model 70,s chassis was introduced as well, but more research is needed there)

(side note I noticed @SRi05 reacted confused to the post, is there something that does not make sense? im happy to help try and clear up anything that dosent make sense if thats the case?)

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21 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

so I was looking at this blog post again https://petrolblog.com/2010/05/whatever-happened-to-the-ac-invacar

and I noticed the fresh comment left today (as a side note im pretty sure the guy who runs? the blog is on Autoshite :)

so I decided to leave a response, I figured I should make an effort to try and clear up some of the common misconceptions people have regarding invalid vehicles :) bellow is my response, does it make sense at all? LOL (sadly I cant seem to edit it otherwise id fix the spellchecker fails!) its waiting for approval hence why its not popped up yet on the blog post I think

 

(I Probably should of had this proof read here before posting it on the blog but ah well LOL)

this does drive home the point that I really need to setup some sort of website one of these days that I can link people to :)

(as I dont think linking people to a 50 page forum thread is a particularly great idea LOL)

A free forum takes all of 20 minutes to create. 

I'd imagine traffic would be low on such a niche car though- why don't you create a Wikipedia page instead? Easy to access and update. 

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1 hour ago, Dick Longbridge said:

A free forum takes all of 20 minutes to create. 

I'd imagine traffic would be low on such a niche car though- why don't you create a Wikipedia page instead? Easy to access and update. 

thats why I said website and not forum, I imagine an invacar only forum would sink faster then the GoFundMe thing did LOL :mrgreen:

I was thinking just some sort of Invalid vehicle info page, with a page about the general history things and general info on them, then sub sections detailing specific models of invalid vehicles a bit like countrybus.org or something similar :)

I do want to do something about the Wikipedia articles on the Invacar and the Invalid carriage however im a bit worried about editing wikipedia, its not something I have ever done before and I dont want to fuck it up,  but it is something I defo plan to do something about at some point :) (I see someones already updated the invalid carriage a little bit mentioning TWC :)

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21 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

thats why I said website and not forum, I imagine an invacar only forum would sink faster then the GoFundMe thing did LOL :mrgreen:

I was thinking just some sort of Invalid vehicle info page, with a page about the general history things and general info on them, then sub sections detailing specific models of invalid vehicles a bit like countrybus.org or something similar :)

I do want to do something about the Wikipedia articles on the Invacar and the Invalid carriage however im a bit worried about editing wikipedia, its not something I have ever done before and I dont want to fuck it up,  but it is something I defo plan to do something about at some point :) (I see someones already updated the invalid carriage a little bit mentioning TWC :)

My bad - it's been a long week. Didn't realise there was already a Wiki page for them either. 

Is the Wiki page a general one? If not, could you create your own and edit to your heart's  content? 

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@LightBulbFun Gavin who runs petrolblog is a top chap in my book, he's even let a rank amateur like me post a few blogs on his site (after some judicious edits) - see here https://petrolblog.com/author/bend/

I believe that Gavin has also written for Wobbler edited magazines.

If you just drop him a line and explain you know Ian etc - he may well give you the opportunity to write an article....

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Seams all round so it would seem....!  

All recovered basket cases from the Sussex field of dreams and MHJ have seams but it doesn’t appear to be an indication of being a join between two panels. I would thus describe them as mould marks, between two components forming the full mould. 

I visited Fraser long before the field of dreams as he had a second vehicle for sale. We didn’t do business. However, I did view his restored Model 70 and when I enquired as to the missing seams I was told they had been there but had been sanded off as part of the restoration. To make it more modern may have been the reference but could be mis remembering on that point....

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6 hours ago, egg said:

@LightBulbFun Gavin who runs petrolblog is a top chap in my book, he's even let a rank amateur like me post a few blogs on his site (after some judicious edits) - see here https://petrolblog.com/author/bend/

I believe that Gavin has also written for Wobbler edited magazines.

If you just drop him a line and explain you know Ian etc - he may well give you the opportunity to write an article....

oh thats very cool, I may do that at some point, like wikipedia, I have never written before in a professional capacity like that, so its all new territory for me :)

7 hours ago, Dick Longbridge said:

My bad - it's been a long week. Didn't realise there was already a Wiki page for them either. 

Is the Wiki page a general one? If not, could you create your own and edit to your heart's  content? 

nah its cool, I just got back from a total cluster fuck of a Friday so I feel you! (also why I have not responded sooner )

heres the 2 articles im referring to :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invalid_carriage

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invacar

 

5 hours ago, st185cs said:

Seams all round so it would seem....!  

All recovered basket cases from the Sussex field of dreams and MHJ have seams but it doesn’t appear to be an indication of being a join between two panels. I would thus describe them as mould marks, between two components forming the full mould. 

I visited Fraser long before the field of dreams as he had a second vehicle for sale. We didn’t do business. However, I did view his restored Model 70 and when I enquired as to the missing seams I was told they had been there but had been sanded off as part of the restoration. To make it more modern may have been the reference but could be mis remembering on that point....

5 hours ago, st185cs said:

....of course, I’m referring to the rear section only. The front sections all have no seams/mould marks. 

yay happy to see your still around :) indeed fraser has had a good number of Model 70's (he seems to have a habit of buying up Model 70s and then selling them on)

I have talked to him in good length, and properly Figure out VES108S's (XEV88S) history for him which was quite fun :), he actually owned 1 Leg and RRE20L for a while too, but sadly he never recorded their chassis numbers :( (im really curious what 1 Legs real ID is, and im also very curious to find out if RRE20L is actually a private Model 70 or not)

(he said 1 Leg had lost its VIN plate/Lube chart thing and sadly he was not actually aware of the  chassis number also being on the suspension top mount until I pointed it out to him)

which is here just incase your also not aware :) (its a good ass saver incase a Model 70 you come across has lost its cabin vin plate/lube chart plate thing, like in the case of MPH759P)

 

54430346_2169995853058966_5386595833426739200_n.jpg

 

IMG_20190309_151257.jpg

also I apologise if I come across a bit frustrated towards you in some of my past posts, when 15~ Model 70's show up relatively recently and then vanish with hardly any details, hopefully you can see why I got a bit frustrated!

but I am happy to hear your still around and are now aware of this threads existence, even if you dont have time to post much here, I hope that what I have posted here will help you out with your own Model 70's :)

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On 6/13/2019 at 7:30 PM, LightBulbFun said:

just to further clarify/update this it looks like the changeover from 12 inch to 10 inch wheels happened around June-July 1974 (which I think is when some other changes to the Model 70,s chassis was introduced as well, but more research is needed there)

(side note I noticed @SRi05 reacted confused to the post, is there something that does not make sense? im happy to help try and clear up anything that dosent make sense if thats the case?)

Sorry chief, no idea what happened there. Must have been my fat thumb by accident when scrolling 😂

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1 hour ago, SRi05 said:

Sorry chief, no idea what happened there. Must have been my fat thumb by accident when scrolling 😂

ah cool no problem, I was Just checking, I like to make sure that if something is confusing or does not make sense that Im made aware of it so I can attempt to clarify/fix it :)

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      I have been out of the buying loop for a while due to loss of storage causing a clear out and other parts of,life getting in the way. I have been in the position to get another car for a couple of months and looked at a couple but they just haven’t got the juices flowing. The Capri still needs to be a priority for funding so any purchase needs to be low cost. The problem is that I am not sure any car exists to fit what I want. It needs to be £500 or thereabouts, preferably MoTed but at worst MoTable with limited time and very low cost. Ideally four seater as whilst I love two seaters a lack of time means it will need to do family duties if it’s going to be used. Minimum of electronics. ‘Sporty’ or old (90s or earlier, earlier the better), able to go on classic insurance. Aesthetics are less important. Not a million miles from the midlands. I would love a Cortina or old French chod but can’t them being close to my budget.
       
      Does such a car even exist? Or should I just really push to get the Capri sorted? (Difficult over winter as it’s all paint prep that needs doing).
    • By Jerzy Woking
      *I have used the search facility, but cannot find anything*
       
      My shared underground garage here in Spain does not have any electrical sockets anywhere. I'm leaving my motorbike here in June and not coming back until September. I will be disconnecting the battery before I go, but concerned it will still go flat, as it seems TTADTS.
       
      I won't have a car with me then, so looking at getting one of those small jumpstart packs. Can anyone recommend one that works reliably? Will have to be small as it will have to go in my hand luggage on the flight. Thanks all.
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