invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Squire_Dawson]

Those rudimentary things must've been humiliating for the people forced to use them. They remind me of an L.S. Lowry painting, 'The Contraption'. Lowry stood transfixed as this thing creaked along the road, the occupant caught him staring and swore and cursed at him as he jerked past.

[vulgalour]

What you've done there is the sign of an Enthusiast, in the best sense of the word.  I do hope you find your way to owning one of these some day, and your means improves to suit, it would likely be in very good hands.

[Dick Longbridge]

Hmm. I smell a large helping of BS on his part.

Too late now, but if you hadn't entertained and helped him, he may have eventually dropped the price down when nobody else showed interest, and he realised he had no other option.

As Vulgalour said though, you're clearly a genuine, nice fella, and I'm a bit of a bastard when it comes to hammering deals on something that tickles my fancy.

Fingers crossed another one appears for reasonable dollar, and when you're ready.

[LightBulbFun]

thanks for the kind words guys 

 

aye indeed Squire, me and stuart where talking about how people just see invalid carriages as the early black ones and Model 70s, completly ignoring all the ones in the middle and unfairly taring the Model 70 with the same brush that was from all those ignored ones

 

(and on that note also talked about how much of a quantum leap the Model 70 was over previous ones like the mk12/Model 67 etc)

 

it is worth mentioning tho, regardless of type, many owners valued their machines a lot because of the freedom it gave them etc

[egg]

What you can see in those early ones is how the basic trike pattern was set out in the 40's and it just evolved - that tricycle frame isn't so different from later models.

 

The more time I spend with my Mk12, the more I come to see it as a motorbike with three wheels + fibreglass shell.

 

The Model 70 (and no, I haven't seen Wobblers) just seems much more car like in design and execution - even though it can still trace it's basic design all the way back.

 

This is Derry Preston-Cobb in his own car, and look at that tiller handlebar - so similar to the controls in mine.

 

[mrbenn]

Good man, LBF. Very decent of you to be so helpful and put your own motives aside. Very decent indeed.

[Yoss]

Well done LBF, that was the best post I've read in ages. Even if you're not getting this one it's good that all your research and perseverance has helped someone else. Karma says you'll get yours one day. At the very least it sounds like you and egg will soon be able to write your own book.

[Mally]

Personally I'd have told him nothing.

The fact that you did, shows what type of person you are.

I still think he may come back to you.

Am sure he won't fix it, or he'd have had a go before now.

DVLA will tell him to whistle, you have to know the exact approach to have any chance.

If the £2,000 turns up it's gone. It's likely it won't, and he now has you down as a good'un.

I don't think you have done yourself any harm at all.

In his book or ours.

[LightBulbFun]

from what he told me he did try and fix it with the DVLA, but didn't know how to go about it properly

 

not helped by a healthy dosage of BS from the DVLA, if he what he told me is accurate/true

 

(he tried to the get the Q plate reversed on the Mk12 chassis number basically, rather then apply for the V5 for the Model 70s chassis number like im instructing him to do, he also said the V5 said invacar before he sent it off, but then came back as AC, when he asked why he said the DVLA lady said invacar was banned...)

 

(the fact the V5 said invacar backs up it masquerading as a Mk12)

 

 

 

What you can see in those early ones is how the basic trike pattern was set out in the 40's and it just evolved - that tricycle frame isn't so different from later models.

 

The more time I spend with my Mk12, the more I come to see it as a motorbike with three wheels + fibreglass shell.

 

The Model 70 (and no, I haven't seen Wobblers) just seems much more car like in design and execution - even though it can still trace it's basic design all the way back.

 

This is Derry Preston-Cobb in his own car, and look at that tiller handlebar - so similar to the controls in mine.

 

derry.JPG

 

Yeah cool photo, indeed stuart mentioned how pre Model 70 invalid carriages harped back to before the war in one way or another

 

 

https://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/invacar/index.htm 

 

heres a cool gallery of photos of a 1953 Invacar Mk8

[egg]

I think we'll probably see what happens with the Q plater - if it turns up on ebay on it's original plate for £3k by the summer - we'll know he just wanted the money.

 

I think he'll probably need some help from the ICR though to smooth it over with the DVLA. 

[Mrcento]

Well done LBF. Was good of you to give him info.

 

I don't believe for a second anyone has offered 2k (if they have, good luck to them), my bet would be that alleged buyer "falls through" in an astonishing case of "Neverexisted-itis".... or he claims he rejected it. Regardless, it smacks of price leverage rather than honesty.

 

However, looking at the long game, if he does suddenly want to sell, i'd guess you'd be top of the list now for contacting, plus the whole situation of it coming up has basically been a dry run for you on logistics and the realities of making it happen, so you should be better prepared down the line when this one or another comes up again.

[Heidel_Kakao]

Out of interest does anyone know who owns the rights to the Invacar name? Would it be part of Greeves motorcycle limited which I see was reformed in 1999 according to Wikipedia.

[LightBulbFun]

Out of interest does anyone know who owns the rights to the Invacar name? Would it be part of Greeves motorcycle limited which I see was reformed in 1999 according to Wikipedia.

 

im not sure tbh, it would be interesting to figure it out and buy the rights 

[Zelandeth]

To be honest the guy probably won't have too much trouble with the DVLA. He just needs to forget about the Q plate and getting it reversed - he just needs to apply for a V5 for the original reg with the correct chassis number. The current plate isn't attached to the car by anytht other than an erroneous chassis number...

[LightBulbFun]

To be honest the guy probably won't have too much trouble with the DVLA. He just needs to forget about the Q plate and getting it reversed - he just needs to apply for a V5 for the original reg with the correct chassis number. The current plate isn't attached to the car by anytht other than an erroneous chassis number...

 

Yeah thats what I told him basically

 

I said something along the lines of "Just ignore the fact its on a Q plate and apply for for the logbook using its real chassis number"

[LightBulbFun]

alright spoke with Busmansholiday (I gave him a call he is a decent chap ) and he spoke with the Q plate guy

 

and the plan is for Busmansholiday to go have a poke at it later on this afternoon, so im looking forward to that

 

 

in the meantime ill tell what new Model 70 infomation stuart gifted me with

 

the most interesting one was, how Invacar managed to limp along after the 1975 factory fire (because Remember the last Invacar Model 70s rolled off the line in Feb 1978!)

 

 

while things sadly are not known 100% its speculated that partly built Model 70s where sent over from AC to Invacar, to have final assembly done at Invacar and where stamped as Invacar as such (almost like a CKD)

 

now if this is true, its not known if this was something ordered by the ministry to keep the Invacar workforce employed or if it was a private agreement between AC and Invacar

 

what is known is there was some goings on in 1976, as stuart has come across some 1976 Invacar Model 70s that have never been apart, but do have holes drilled behind the Invacar badge, for an AC badge

 

I asked him if this explained the roof gasket thing iv been trying to figure out (that DW originally noticed when he had TWC and TPA next to each other), and it turns out he didn't actually notice the gasket thing until now, so we had some fun talking about that

 

 

 

then I also asked him about the whole engine size thing, and he says the whole 600cc engine thing is just an urban myth, and that officially as far as he knows all Model 70s had 493cc engines, apart from 1 that was built with a 650cc engine to test the drive belt to destruction

 

I bet that one was brisk 

 

he also talked about back in his banger racing days how we witnessed an entire field of Model 70s racing around a Dirt track and how they outpaced pretty much every other car there apart from the hot rodded escorts

 

(then he went to talk about how a Model 70 will spin out long before it will actually fall over, so who knows harmonic-cheeseburger invacar donuts could actually be a thing LOL)

 

 

 

and another thing he talked about which I found interesting, was when he got TTW906R (which is a later Model 70) it came to him fitted with 12 inch wheels, which actually fowled the rear wheel arches

 

and things where only good once he fitted 10 inch wheels, it seems like on the later Model 70s something changed with the suspension/rear axle setup that actually necessitated 10 inch wheels which I find quite interesting

 

(especially given how people commented that it was weird how they went from 12 to 10 when the rest of the industry went from 10 to 12)

 

im not sure if this is WHY they changed to 10 inch wheels, or if they decided to change to 10 inch wheels and then adjust the rear end to suit.

 

but i find it pretty interesting regardless

[egg]

All interesting stuff. It seems plausible that the government wanted to keep the Invacar employees off the dole - in those days governments were very sensitive to unemployment figures (especially from industry). Here's another pic, which you probably have seen, but just in case.

 

This is when they were in the smaller factory in West Road, Westcliff on Sea.

 

[egg]

Out of interest does anyone know who owns the rights to the Invacar name? Would it be part of Greeves motorcycle limited which I see was reformed in 1999 according to Wikipedia.

 

Well, between 2016 and 2017 there was a company called Invacar LTD - with two Directors from Chemsford. But details are scant, and they never filed accounts.

 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09975477

[LightBulbFun]

have not seen that one before, im very much enjoying the early history and broader stuff you have been digging up so far

 

(Iv wondered what is the "invacar" font? always found it pretty interesting, because it doesn't look like something you would expect from the 1940s/50s etc)

[egg]

to me the font looks 1930's art deco - but it is interesting they never seemed to change it did they?

[LightBulbFun]

yeah, the badge at least, stayed the same till the very end

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

Quick update

 

busmansholiday has just been to poke at the Q plater, and was able to successfully unearth its actual chassis number  can anyone run a HPI check on D249? the manufacturer on the logbook will likely be AC (ELECTRIC), AC or A C if that helps

 

(and aging wheels thought he had it bad with his trabants shorter the normal VIN number  )

 

from what Stuart has told me and what iv seen on TPA, that defiantly sounds like a valid AC Model 70 chassis number.

 

he has also grabbed some pictures for me which he will send to me when he gets home as not to munch the mobile data.

 

 

ill do a full write up then

[LightBulbFun]

Well Stuart just got back to me 

 

turns out that one of the Llandudno Model 70s has a chassis number of D248 (and the Reg MPH735P) 

 

making this Q plater one MPH 736P (would be interesting to run a HPI check on that and verify )

 

im very happy (and thankful to stuart for the info) if for nothing else my records, to have figured out its actually registration

[egg]

Checks out on DVLA :-) last taxed May '83. May 76 car.

 

PH is a Guildford area code - Surrey, so checks out for AC.

[Mally]

Do not tell the guy who is selling it.

I'd be tempted to delete it here as well.

[busmansholiday]

Do not tell the guy who is selling it.

I'd be tempted to delete it here as well.

He knows, but he's also not selling it. He didn't really want to sell it but he was getting pissed off with not being able to get it's old reg back and he's moving.

He intends to put it back on the road and use it. It runs and works OK.

[LightBulbFun]

in light of that, iv reverted the thread title

 

thank you very much to all involved and especially to busmansholiday for going out of his way to go poke at it for me, I look forward to seeing the pictures

 

now hopefully the owner will now be able to get its original V5 (I would like someone to run a HPI check on MPH736P/Chassis number D249 if possible please to double check everything is correct) but if nothing else we have unearthed the original chassis number and thats the most important bit

 

(iv also updated the Survivors list with a couple more Model 70s thanks to fresh info from stuart, JCB421N is thought to actually be JPA347N and the one next to the queen is MPH735P )

 

 

the hunt for a Model 70 continues 

[Dick Longbridge]

Still can't quite believe you've not seized the opportunity to buy this one. He may have said he didn't want to sell it, but he also gave the spiel about 6 people had enquired and one had viewed. He was after as much $$ as he could get. He's not an enthusiast if the way it's been painted and stored (concrete block on front storage lid to hold down the tarp anyone?) is anything to go by.

I reckon he'll get it properly registered now it's been made easy for him, tidied up a bit and max out on asking price when he readvertises it.

[busmansholiday]

So here we go, this afternoon's schnanigans.

 

Brian, who owns it is a decent guy and I spent about an hour there. He'd have started her for me but made the mistake of pouring his can of paraffin into the fuel tank, not the one with petrol in it.

 

 

Apparently dad bought it from a dealer / scrappie in Lincoln back in about 1996/7. It was already painted that colour. DVLA put the plate on as he was the 'first' owner and they obviously weren't happy with the details.

 

So the VIN plate...

 

 

Tell me this wasn't made by one of those machines you see at the seaside that will write Wayne loves Waynett on a metal plate with love hearts on it.

 

Fortunately LBF told me where to look, (Brian was looking in the engine bay), and after a bit of wire brush action we could see this.

 

 

A phone call to LBF soon had wheels turning to identify it.

 

So here's acouple more, the bench seat was fitted by his dad as it was more comfortable. We couldn't work out where it was from.

 

 

 

Anyway, Brian told me'd had several offers other than from LBF, including the full 2 grand, so as previously posted, prices are a bit silly.

 

Hopefully when Brian moves, it'll be the property he showed me, it's just a couple of miles from me!

[egg]

Bench seat looks a bit 90s Renault to me?

 

Thanks for the pics.