invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

8 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

Would it be worth buying a solar charger to try and keep the battery topped up?  As has been mentioned before, if you're doing lots of local runs, especially in the winter with lights and wiper in operation, the Dynastart might struggle to keep up even when it's working properly.

I have wondered about those, but are they any good? I looked at a few back in 2021 and the reviews at the time where not great, but maybe I was looking at the wrong ones? also being winter I do wonder if it would get enough sun?

I do agree the short runs and winter situation is a little bit of a problem, Ironically this is one of the reasons that I have never really considered an electric car,  despite thinking one would be good for the very local trips where REV would not get warm, is that somewhat ironically given I am in Central London there are no charging points anywhere on the estate

*begins to eye up the lamp post behind REV...*

[GrumpiusMaximus]

Just now, Dyslexic Viking said:

Good idea but is there enough sunlight in a UK  winter to charge a battery?

Definitely not between the months of January through to December.

[wuvvum]

1 minute ago, LightBulbFun said:

I have wondered about those, but are they any good? I looked at a few back in 2021 and the reviews at the time where not great, but maybe I was looking at the wrong ones? also being winter I do wonder if it would get enough sun?

The cheap ones are pants, you'd need to spend a few quid to get one which can put any charge in at this time of year, but it might be worth it to avoid having to lug the battery up and down the stairs.

[LightBulbFun]

Just now, wuvvum said:

The cheap ones are pants, you'd need to spend a few quid to get one which can put any charge in at this time of year, but it might be worth it to avoid having to lug the battery up and down the stairs.

do you have any links? I was thinking you could just get a big enough regular PV panel and a DC-DC converter/charger and make your own, basically what they do on camper vans, and just hope no one nicks the solar panel LOL

[wuvvum]

Just now, LightBulbFun said:

I was thinking you could just get a big enough regular PV panel and a DC-DC converter/charger and make your own, basically what they do on camper vans, and just hope no one nicks the solar panel LOL

That's probably the cheapest way of getting a decent solar charger to be honest - that's what my uncle does on his camper van and he uses that year round with no issues.  Decent solar panels aren't cheap but they are a lot less expensive now than they were a few years back.  You'd probably have to put the solar panel in the windscreen if you wanted to avoid it being nicked mind.

[Dyslexic Viking]

One can buy larger solar panels that is like a suitcase which could have been suitable to put on the inside of the front or back window in Rev? And can be easily folded before driving. Something like this bellow.

https://www.sunstore.co.uk/product/12v-lightweight-solar-battery-charger-80w-briefcase/

[somewhatfoolish]

19 hours ago, reb said:

When are you driving to Dundee for a Toblerone?

The only thing it's acceptable to visit Dundee for is cake, jam or possibly a Peh.

[egg]

I use an AA Solar charger (can use OBD too - not an issue for you!) which kept a dying battery going another 6 months (until it didn't!)*

* I do live on the sunny Kent Coast though.

[plasticvandan]

I have used a large panel,it only really works on the outside of the vehicle rather than inside the screen,but really should fix the problem not the symptoms. Most likely needs brushes and commutator cleaning,and presumably there is a regulator box that would need cleaning and adjusting.of course,unless recently replaced,five years of inactivity the battery is probably past it's best now anyway.

[somewhatfoolish]

An electronic controller would be a good idea compared to the antediluvian electromagnetic wobble box it would be fitted with originally, especially given how small the output of a dynastart is even when functional.

[plasticvandan]

The other thing of course,from looking at your Speedo you did maybe 1.5 miles,those sorts of journeys are not going to help charging the battery,you will use more than it can give back. Also minus points for the horrid modern plastic drinks container on the roof😅 cudos for parking outside the hells angels club house though

[Zelandeth]

45 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

An electronic controller would be a good idea compared to the antediluvian electromagnetic wobble box it would be fitted with originally, especially given how small the output of a dynastart is even when functional.

Definitely a plus one on this.  The charging system on TPA now comes on charge barely above idle, and then stays rock solid through the rev range.  The mechanical regulator (even when I think it was working) always required a decent amount of rpm to really wake up.  

It will juuuuust hold on a very slight charge when the revs come down to idle with no load on as well, which the original one never did.

Plus being solid state there's no adjustment to worry about, points to get fouled etc, it Just Works.  The one I fitted I believe is normally used as an upgrade for VW Beetles with the older style generator setup.

 

I do think though with the relatively low output of the dynastart, how much sitting stationary is involved in London traffic these days and your likely mostly short journeys, externally charging the battery periodically is something you might just have to plan on.

[Christine]

Change all the bulbs for LED...

[IronStar]

Can’t weigh in on Dynastarrt itself as I never had the (mis)fortune of using it, but it sounds like one of those godawful generators that excel in generating flat batteries and failures to start/proceed.

Unless they are trailer queens in which case originality is fine, it’s always worth upgrading to electronic fuel pump, electronic ignition, getting rid of generators to replace them with something capable of keeping up, as well as upgrading cooling systems of cars that were never designed with traffic jams in mind. Honorable mentions much less often seem contraptions like cam driven wipers, spare tyre driven washers, sachets instead of bottles, and a few other “who's bright idea was this?” things that, IMHO, need to go into a bin so you can actually drive your car without worrying about those randomly shitting themselves. 

[R Lutz]

I think we used to quote 7 miles to replace the charge from 1 cold start on a battery. 

[somewhatfoolish]

10 minutes ago, IronStar said:

Can’t weigh in on Dynastarrt itself as I never had the (mis)fortune of using it, but it sounds like one of those godawful generators that excel in generating flat batteries and failures to start/proceed.

Dynastart is a work of beelzebub that combines the functions of a starter motor and a dynamo in one inconveniently large package.

[Mr Pastry]

 My workmate who had a mod 70 commuted about 9 miles each way across South London, so lots of slow running, and that was enough to keep the battery up IIRC and that was a new vehicle.  That sort of use is probably what they were designed for, so I would have thought 5 miles at least to keep it charged.

 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Dynastart is a work of beelzebub that combines the functions of a starter motor and a dynamo in one inconveniently large package.

well its a a lot more refined then a starter-motor thats for sure! just a *clunk* of the stater solenoid and then the gentle whirring of the motor and engine going round until the engine starts  (and REV always starts very easily so hopefully that means minimal strain on the battery at least!)

[IronStar]

1 hour ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Dynastart is a work of beelzebub that combines the functions of a starter motor and a dynamo in one inconveniently large package.

Ah so it’s one of those things(tm)!
Designed by someone off their tits on drugs at a time when it was socially acceptable to come to work shitfaced, and approved by people equally high while the resident sensible person was away on holiday.

[Yoss]

You should go and park next to this, it's only down the road from you. 

They would look great together, they look to have a similar patina. 

[GrumpiusMaximus]

15 minutes ago, IronStar said:

Ah so it’s one of those things(tm)!
Designed by someone off their tits on drugs at a time when it was socially acceptable to come to work shitfaced, and approved by people equally high while the resident sensible person was away on holiday.

Well, you've worked in tech...

[IronStar]

2 minutes ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

Well, you've worked in tech...

I came back to work today after a week off. Don’t get me started. 😆

[Talbot]

I rather concurr that a solar panel is going to do very little here.  On an overcast day in winter, a solar panel might do 10% of it's rated output, and even then only when it's facing the brightest part of the sky.  If it's facing the wrong way you might get half that, and behind glass it's going to get half again.  That 80W solar charger would likely be down to 2W of charging, which will do absolutely nothing.  In fact if it's a badly designed one, it may even draw from the battery and make the situation worse.  Even if it has good control electronics (which cheaper ones do not), you'll still be looking at about 10wh in total, which is a drop in the ocean for a battery.

Electronic regulation definitely sounds like a sensible thing to do.  It's a shame it cannot be converted from dynamo to an alternator.  A "alterstart" doesn't sound quite so 1960's jet-set though.

[Zelandeth]

I actually don't think the dynastart is a bad idea - it certainly made a lot of sense from a packaging perspective on a small engine like this.  There's nothing technically strange about it.  Just a generator and a starter motor on a common shaft essentially.  It's not really all that much bigger than a lot of contemporary starter motors, and has a grand total of three wires coming out of it if I remember right (starter feed, generator field and battery charge output if I remember right), and being belt drive here does really help keep things simple.

As far as performance goes, I think it's entirely reasonable given how little electrical kit is on these cars - the only big load aside from the starter is the headlights.  Even the clock is an addition that's happened later in the car's life (likewise on TPA).  

I think I've only had to charge the battery in TPA two or three times, and that's mainly been after sitting all winter when the idiot writing this has forgotten to disconnect the battery and the clock over several months has drained it.  I'm only using a little U1R lawn mower battery as well simply because it fitted and was half the price of most of the automotive alternatives I found locally at the time.

I'm honestly curious to see how well or not it works in day to day use.  I have my doubts about it keeping up - but I'm quite prepared to be proven wrong, and the more I think about it, given the type of use the cars were expected to see in period I guess it must have worked!

Swapping the regulator definitely vastly improved things for me though.

For future reference, here's how it was wired up.

Which results in the voltmeter jumping straight up to here anywhere north of idle.

So I'd say that's probably a better thing to spend money on than solar panels or anything at this stage if it were me.

A decent set of quick connect terminals (or an in-line connector) to make removal/refitting of the battery less of a pain probably wouldn't be the worst idea either.

Really good to see another one of these little cars going back on the road and doing what it was designed to do.  We really do need to see how many we can get together next year at some point!  Aside from anything else, the more nerdy amongst us (yes, I include myself there) would probably be able to spend a whole afternoon playing spot-the-difference and see if we can figure out method to said changes from car to car.

[High Jetter]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

well its a a lot more refined then a starter-motor thats for sure! just a *clunk* of the stater solenoid and then the gentle whirring of the motor and engine going round until the engine starts  (and REV always starts very easily so hopefully that means minimal strain on the battery at least!)

Can I just ask, how are you feeling tonight? Must have been a whirlwind few days.

[JJ0063]

17 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Can I just ask, how are you feeling tonight? Must have been a whirlwind few days.

Might just sell it and buy a Micra tbh

 

[High Jetter]

17 minutes ago, JJ0063 said:

Might just sell it and buy a Micra tbh

 

Never. I want a share of his excite.

[LightBulbFun]

41 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Can I just ask, how are you feeling tonight? Must have been a whirlwind few days.

bodily wise? utterly fucked! realistically I should of given myself a few days resting after Sunday, but I was eager to get a trip done in REV  doesn't help that I took with me an extra large toolset that was a bit of a chore to take down and back up indoors, (2 bags and 1 case of tools is probably a bit overkill, but especially in these early days I am generally of the mindset of rather have and not use, then need and not have, tho I will go over things see if I can streamline it/make it a bit easier to carry) so it probably will be a few days before I take REV out again, also have to mull over how I want to tackle the battery situation, since getting the jump pack in there is a bit awkward (might at least see if theres any easier jump points in the engine bay rather then trying to hook to the battery in the front) 

that reminds me tho, driving in the rain once more, I am wondering once more, if they have headlamp wipers why dont they have mirror-wipers! (question for @dollywobbler if there ever was one  )

[High Jetter]

Take a pause then. Good feelings, tho?

[D.E]