invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

13 hours ago, MorrisItalSLX said:

Are there any 205s for sale here at the moment? A month or two ago there were loads.

I think something from 1990s Japan would be the way to go for your mum. Micra, Civic, Corolla, etc.

Wild card choice: Rover Metro.

all good ideas/suggestions, especially the metro (A series engine like her old mini so she would be familiar with that)

and I think my mum would consider something 1980's like the metro but ULEZ kills that idea sadly

(a lot of my/her problems would be solved if we simply did not live in London! *sigh* )

[MorrisItalSLX]

I was actually thinking of a 90s K Series Metro, being easier to find and slightly more modern yet still very simple.

If you want an A Series you would be better finding an 80s (or even 90s) Mini, perhaps even a late Maestro.

[LightBulbFun]

11 minutes ago, MorrisItalSLX said:

I was actually thinking of a 90s K Series Metro, being easier to find and slightly more modern yet still very simple.

If you want an A Series you would be better finding an 80s (or even 90s) Mini, perhaps even a late Maestro.

oh mum would love a Mini again, but I think any usable example is probably well out of budget now sadly

(esp as it would have to be 40 years or older to be ULEZ exempt)

[MorrisItalSLX]

Both good points, in which case I would compromise and go for a Morris Minor, or even a Marina if you can find one.

Alternatively, you could get something from the 70s that wasn’t built by BMC/BL, but I can’t help you there.

[LightBulbFun]

apparently my alter ego already has a Minor and is trying to sell it!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274130375096

on a more serious note, looks nice, but the chassis leg rot is a bit concerning especially without any pics (we care much more about structural integrity then cosmetics!)

 

doesn't look like there's much on ebay atm, but mums not in a rush, so hopefully as mentioned a shitter will put something suitable up for sale at some point  

[overrun]

How about another Model 70? £2K should get one. ☺️

[LightBulbFun]

8 minutes ago, overrun said:

How about another Model 70? £2K should get one. ☺️

I certainly wouldn't complain! but it took me almost a year to find mine!

and alas mum wants something with at least 2 seats, so I can pick her up from work in it in the future when required etc etc

but she would happily use mine if it was on the road, but sadly mine aint on the road yet

[Dick Cheeseburger]

44 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

apparently my alter ego already has a Minor and is trying to sell it!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274130375096

on a more serious note, looks nice, but the chassis leg rot is a bit concerning especially without any pics (we care much more about structural integrity then cosmetics!)

 

doesn't look like there's much on ebay atm, but mums not in a rush, so hopefully as mentioned a shitter will put something suitable up for sale at some point  

I loved my Moggie when I owned it back in my late teens. 

Your mum is going to need to be handy with a MIG welder for annual work underneath, as well as able and willing to grease the kingpins. 

Doesn't sound realistic to me. 

[plasticvandan]

having owned and run three minors,I think you are in cuckoo land if you think you can run one if these in London out in the street with no mechanical ability,knowledge or tools.its all very well your mum saying she used to run round in them,but they are now 50-60 years old,not 10-15 yr old bangers, you will need 4000 minimum to get a minor that won't need welding (for a while) there is no such thing as a scruffy solid minor.if it's rough on top it's fucked underneath,or its a concours job. 

[LightBulbFun]

32 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

I loved my Moggie when I owned it back in my late teens. 

Your mum is going to need to be handy with a MIG welder for annual work underneath, as well as able and willing to grease the kingpins. 

Doesn't sound realistic to me. 

aye, rust is a big concern, (for anything 40+ years old really!)

could potentially have a garage weld it up, but thats £££ (but could potentially be something budgeted for in advance)

(when mentioning how 40+ year old cars do need extra love, I told mum there would be times where it would have to be thrown at a garage, and she is not adverse to throwing it at a garage if needed, she was most worried about finding a good garage and not one that would swindle her)

im open to more then just a Moggie, its just what immediately comes to mind when thinking of a somewhat cheap somewhat usable old car!

(4 wheeled reliants came to mind when thinking about the rust issue, but I think those are a bit more difficult to work on, and no real idea on what the going rate for those are!)

11 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

there is no such thing as a scruffy solid minor.if it's rough on top it's fucked underneath,or its a concours job. 

am curious then what your thoughts would be on this if it was still for sale?

 

[plasticvandan]

Well the mot history,confirms my thoughts,rotten.

[mrbenn]

Due to the way the Minor is constructed it is absolutely possible to have one that is tatty on top but structurally sound.

LBF - have a look on the MMOC web forum. Quite a number of Minor's are still in daily use with no problems.

If keeping such a car outside and using it as a daily drive you will need to have it welded on occasion and obviously bits will fail from time to time. Spare parts are cheap and easy to find, though there are instances where modern parts just don't last too well. People generally want to pay the absolute minimum for bits so you can't really blame the manufacturers I guess.

Do you have a local "classic friendly" garage that would be able to look after it for you? That would make a massive difference to the ownership experience!

Values are quite up and down. Id say £1k for a project, £2k plus for a usable example. I'm looking at an advert right now in the back of the current edition of Minor Matters (the MMOC club magazine) for one that is "mechanically and structurally sound" for £2100.

Actually Dez, PM me your address and I'll post you the magazine down when I've finished reading it.

[LightBulbFun]

29 minutes ago, mrbenn said:

Due to the way the Minor is constructed it is absolutely possible to have one that is tatty on top but structurally sound.

 

ah thats good to know!

 

29 minutes ago, mrbenn said:

LBF - have a look on the MMOC web forum. Quite a number of Minor's are still in daily use with no problems.

 

will scope them out for sure  I was already checking out their various buyers guides  

29 minutes ago, mrbenn said:

Do you have a local "classic friendly" garage that would be able to look after it for you? That would make a massive difference to the ownership experience!

 

tbh im not sure what the garage situation is like here exactly, but since I can count at least 3 Morris minors (and 1 Rover SD1) that live on the street outside nearby (and one of those is a Traveller)

Id like to think there is a good garage somewhere that takes care of them  

(reminds me I STILL need to get to know the neighbour who has the Rover SD1 LOL)

 

29 minutes ago, mrbenn said:

Values are quite up and down. Id say £1k for a project, £2k plus for a usable example. I'm looking at an advert right now in the back of the current edition of Minor Matters (the MMOC club magazine) for one that is "mechanically and structurally sound" for £2100.

 

Yeah up front cost is another concern, mum did not really give me a budget, so I said £2K, to which mum said that's a bit much, but to go with it and see what pops up

so which makes me think mum would like to ideally spend less than £2K, but may be willing to stretch to it if she is happy with what is being presented etc, but luckily no one is in a rush so happy to wait for something suitable to show up

(also if said vehicle sufficiently tickles my own fancy too, then id be willing to chip in a little  but i need to be careful, I have my own car I need to get back on the road and insure etc!) 

29 minutes ago, mrbenn said:

Actually Dez, PM me your address and I'll post you the magazine down when I've finished reading it.

Ah Awesome many thanks PM inbound! 

if nothing else it will make for a good read!

[Floatylight]

Sorry LBF, but the sensible thing to do is something cheap and plentiful that garages are going to know how to fix, anything made in the last few years are all screens and computers but something early late 90, early 2000's would be a far better option than something from the 70's, I'd be looking Micra, Corsa, Polo, Clio etc.. If she isn't capable of driving one of those with all due respect I would question whether she should be getting behind the wheel at all....

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

[LightBulbFun]

16 minutes ago, Floatylight said:

Sorry LBF, but the sensible thing to do is something cheap and plentiful that garages are going to know how to fix, anything made in the last few years are all screens and computers but something early late 90, early 2000's would be a far better option than something from the 70's, I'd be looking Micra, Corsa, Polo, Clio etc..

Aye As I said previously, if I was in her shoes id personally go down the route you describe, but my mums said what she wants, even after I explained to her the pitfalls of vintage car ownership

(if any such suitable early 2000's vehicles come up for Roffle I do plan to enter said roffles since you cant argue with a near Free car!)

16 minutes ago, Floatylight said:

If she isn't capable of driving one of those with all due respect I would question whether she should be getting behind the wheel at all....

its not that she cant drive something modern

its she doesn't want to drive something modern thats the "problem"

she wants something properly "analog" as she puts it LOL

 

as many said when I was looking for a Model 70, the worst that could happen is she realises a moggie or such is not for her, then she can flog that and I go out and find her something sensible like a Micra  

[mrbenn]

I'd have a chat with the local Minor owners and see what garage they use. Said owners are usually a friendly bunch and happy to help, they certainly are around here.

Personally, I'd avoid a convertible or Traveller if parking on the street. The 2 or 4 door saloon is easier to keep dry and secure, plus doesn't have structural wood!

Out of interest, I've just started watching this channel on YouTube - a student running a Minor as his daily. Quite interesting IMHO:

https://www.youtube.com/user/thefatfrierunleshed/videos

[LightBulbFun]

34 minutes ago, mrbenn said:

I'd have a chat with the local Minor owners and see what garage they use. Said owners are usually a friendly bunch and happy to help, they certainly are around here.

 

I was thinking that, even regardless of my mum wanting something old, its a good idea with my Model 70 on the way! I must put my foot down to make an excursion out and get chatting to all the old car owners round the place! (perhaps when the weather starts to improve!)

also would be a good opportunity to photograph said cars  

34 minutes ago, mrbenn said:

Personally, I'd avoid a convertible or Traveller if parking on the street. The 2 or 4 door saloon is easier to keep dry and secure, plus doesn't have structural wood!

 

indeed I was not looking at convertibles or travellers for those reasons (and also as nice as a traveller would be I think they are a bit out of budget structural wood or not!)

one of the minors, that lives nearby has a really period looking steering wheel lock on it, must grab a picture of it as it fits in with the look very well  

34 minutes ago, mrbenn said:

Out of interest, I've just started watching this channel on YouTube - a student running a Minor as his daily. Quite interesting IMHO:

https://www.youtube.com/user/thefatfrierunleshed/videos

ohh thanks for that, will have a watch  

[Zelandeth]

I worry about an old motor being parked on street around your parts.

The best anti theft device is making your car look like more of a pain to nick than everything else on the street.  Which it's going to be very difficult to do with anything you're looking at.

Garages are increasingly not interested in old cars (yes, there are exceptions, I use one regularly).  They take actual time to diagnose, then parts need to be sourced and fitted.  If they can't plug it in, look up a code and pick which box they replace having phoned the dealer to order it, they're not interested.

If you're wanting to daily it that limits your options to something which *NEEDS* good parts availablity I reckon...so in my mind this gives a few options.

[] Mini.  Too expensive and far too desirable to thieves.

[] Metro.  Probably not a bad shout...though budget is getting to be an issue as they're getting dear now.  Especially early ones.  The clutch can be heavy on the cable operated examples sometimes too, not ideal in London!  Don't know if the automatic versions command a premium?

[] Early Ford Fiesta.  Basically a Metro with a Ford badge - but because of the "scene tax" will cost twice as much as a Metro, and will probably get nicked before you've had a chance to get out when you park it.

[] Minor.  As discussed above...not the worst suggestion, but at this sort of price you're likely to be looking at a car you'll spend as much time playing whack-a-mole with issues (corrosion or mechanical) as driving it. 

[] MGB.  Probably the best parts availablity of any classic, and about as sophisticated as a brick.  However at this price you're going to have the same issues as with the Minor.

[] Maestro.  Not a bad shout as they're a bit unloved compared to some BMC metal...I do worry a bit about spares availability there...as I'll bet there are plenty of bits you'll find are unique to the model when it's the most inconvenient.  Don't think they're *quite* old enough yet though.

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but you know me so hopefully I'm not being annoying - I know your Mum at least a bit too, so hopefully I'm not speaking out of turn.  I wish we could get her a shot in a 107 (etc)...for all they look very modern, they feel very much like a "really good old car" to drive than something totally modern and detached.  That's WHY I BOUGHT ONE.  No stupid screens, no trip computers, you have three pedals, a gear lever, two levers to control the temperature and where the air goes from the heater, a fan control knob and three buttons.  Rear screen demister, hazards and if you've got it, air con.  It drives like an old car, just without the creaks, clonks and bits falling off, and with an interior that's like a bloody TARDIS in terms of the available space.

Just think she'd be *really* surprised by how familiar it would feel to her.  Oh, just don't get the "automatic" one... they're a robotised manual and are utter crap even when they are working.

[LightBulbFun]

aye indeed, but there are much nicer classics that live around here to potentially steal then a scruffy old Minor! (and said minor could be secured via a disklok or some such means)

sadly ULEZ sadly kills off a lot of the options on the list

the idea of a 107 would normally be a very good idea as you say, but its sadly far too modern for my mum to remotely consider I think, its not just the driving dynamics of a car, but she also wants a car she can pop the bonnet of and recognise the various components of and be familiar with,

I did  however tell mum that if anything like a 107 or Micra or such like came up to roffle I would be buying tickets which she was ok with as you cant argue with a free car!

ULEZ is the real kick in the teeth here, anything exempt via emissions is too new for her, and anything exempt via age, is going to be 40+ years old

and don't worry your not a broken record! I very much appreciate the advice given  

(can you really get a usable MGB for £2K or less? I sort of automatically assumed anything usable thats not a project in bits would be about £5K or more, and I dont think mum would be happy with the very low down seating position)

its worth noting that my mum (currently anyway!) works part time, so it would have days of rest, where attention could be given to said potential car if needed, and its a commute that takes her away from central London so not the worst in terms of traffic etc

[egg]

I guess some 70's saloons might come in budget - Hillman Avenger, Chrysler Alpine, Rubber band DAF, Allegro, Maxi...but they'll all have their foibles...

[Zelandeth]

Nothing under the bonnet of the 107 to scare her.

Throttle is via an old school cable, as is clutch and gearchange.  All visible, accessible and adjustable.  Not even a plastic cover...only bit of plastic in the engine bay is the air cleaner assembly.

Only things you'll be missing is coil and distributor as ignition is directly from a coil pack on each plug.  In all honesty though you'll never need to touch them...that side of things is from the late 90s Japanese side and is utterly bulletproof.  Nothing is coded to the car, so if anything does break, find one of the zillions in breakers yards and just swap it over.

In nine and a half years and 65K miles the only thing I had to do under the bonnet was change the radiator and air con condenser, and I'm pretty sure that was thanks to the car getting smacked in the face by a stray wheel ring lost by a truck heading the opposite way down the A5 one morning...Beyond that I think I had one driveshaft replaced (less than £100 all in, was cheaper to just replace the unit than separate the CV joint that failed), and a wheel bearing done under warranty a few months into ownership.

Beyond that I changed the oil every six months and that was basically it...never used a drop of coolant or oil, and I usually drove it like I stole it.

* The clutch was replaced at the five year mark...but that was because the utter idiot dealer (now defunct) adjusted the cable wrong so it was always dragging and eventually after three years of commuting into Oxford (~2 hours in traffic each way) the release bearing had enough.  I reckon if I had discovered that a year sooner the clutch wouldn't have needed changing.

[1970mgb]

Thinking back to a year and a half ago(summer 2018) when I looked at a package deal of a few Minors here semi-local to me:

The running/driveable definitely fit the definition of "looks like crap but is structurally sound." The guy who owned it/was selling it was handy with a welder and had redone the floor pans and all the other dangerous spots, The body actually wasn't half bad-unless primer gray is your thing it mostly needed a sanding followed by a fresh spray and then some trim. Oh, there was the whole thing too that the bonnet hinges were bad and it had a ratcheting strap holding it in place.

In any case, provided you could live with the transmission popping out of 3rd and 4th, that one was decently peppy with a 1275 Midget engine. That one did sort of scare me too, though, in that from what I understand there's a "right way" and "wrong way" to do a 1275 swap, and I wasn't sure how it was done. There was also the iffy-to me-disk conversion on it. $4K USD would have probably bought that one. I know many Mogies in the US are running around with upgraded front suspension from Marinas, although the source of those(scrapped Marinas) has mostly dried up.

For an MGB-at least in the US $2K will buy an ugly but serviceable RB. You probably are in the $4K+ range to get a nice CB.  I have no idea of UK prices.

[Mr Pastry]

I was going to suggest a Metro, or a small Fiat or Renault from the same period - if you can find one.   I do get the Analog thing - I like that expression -  but  realistically I m not sure that a 40 year old car for £2000 is going to be reliable enough for commuting, and I think you'd have to treat it as expendable.  You will need a co-operative garage and a good motor factors within reach, because the novelty of fixing it beside the road in winter with no tools, spares, or equipment, snotty neighbours (there's always one), and a bad back will soon wear off.   Don't ask me how I know.

[Mally]

Being the proud* owner of a Minor very similar to the blue one, I'd advise against it.

Bought mine on here from @crooner, for £950?

Needed much welding, which has now been done.

I use it daily, it suits my purpose and I like driving it.

But, the welding, cost me less than £100, for parts, would have cost you a grand I reckon.

The gearbox is not and never was the best, same goes for the brakes.

The leaf springs on the rear are incompatible with speed hump's.

My seats are past their best and replacements cost as much as I paid for the car..

It keeps up with town traffic, but not on the motorway.

The ad for the blue one mentions front chassis outrigger, needs attention, they've lost me there?

Micra would be preferable in your case I feel.

Edit scrub the. MGB on low seating, that's why I had to sell mine.

[500tops]

'96-'99 EP91 Starlet. 

1.3 4EFE engine that runs and runs. Can be bought for peanuts, economical and quite resilient to rust. 

[LightBulbFun]

8 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

I was going to suggest a Metro, or a small Fiat or Renault from the same period - if you can find one.   I do get the Analog thing - I like that expression -  but  realistically I m not sure that a 40 year old car for £2000 is going to be reliable enough for commuting, and I think you'd have to treat it as expendable.  You will need a co-operative garage and a good motor factors within reach, because the novelty of fixing it beside the road in winter with no tools, spares, or equipment, snotty neighbours (there's always one), and a bad back will soon wear off.   Don't ask me how I know.

aye sadly ULEZ kills anything from the 1980s-1990s that might otherwise be much more of a better idea for her

indeed ill be looking out for a good garage, as you say, without one, your not going to get very far without over time!

4 hours ago, 500tops said:

'96-'99 EP91 Starlet. 

1.3 4EFE engine that runs and runs. Can be bought for peanuts, economical and quite resilient to rust. 

ULEZ kills that sadly im pretty sure!

 

as mentioned I explained all these problems and issues of vintage car ownership vs just getting something like a Micra to my mum etc and she told me she can see the appeal of something like a Micra, but told me to keep looking for a Pre 1980 car as she really wants something "analog",

 

so im just asking here for people to let me know if anything suitable comes up for sale, or if they have any good recommendations that has the least potential issues

(hence why im thinking Morris Minor, as they are about as supported as you can get when it comes to a 40+ year old car)

I think (and this is my own speculation at this point!) her want for something old, is the same reason I got an invacar,

I dont think she really planned on getting a car at all, but seeing as it looks like she needs one, she wants to get something that would be worth the effort/expense of car ownership to her

(when she started her current job I asked her if she would get a car to help with the commute, and at the time she was against the idea in general, so it caught even me a bit by surprised a couple days ago when she asked me to find her a vintage car!)

 

side note speaking of Invacars

I noticed when idly looking at morris minors on ebay

that this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143474506093

has dark red rings? attached to the taillights

and I noticed in the past this Model 70 has those rings too, and I know on the Model 70 these rear lights don't normally have said rings, so I was wonder what its about/what they are exactly! is it some sort of "race car" thing? seeing as both vehicles seem to be done up as a "race car"

[Mally]

The black Minor will sell. Engine is probably worth what they are asking,  

I'm not a big fan of Matt black cars, but have had one.

The kids called it 'shine'.

Trust you to notice the lights!

[egg]

Given your location, and it certainly wouldn't be analogue, the car sharing services like Zipcar where you can rent cars by the minute/hour/day etc might actually be practicably the cheapest way to go.

Although it is against all the mantras of AS, about having several tons of metal hanging around your road/drive/lock-up/field - in urban areas 'the why own when you can rent' argument does hold sway.

https://www.zipcar.com/

I think if I lived in Central London I'd use this and have a weekend car to get out of the smoke.

[LightBulbFun]

16 minutes ago, Mally said:

The black Minor will sell. Engine is probably worth what they are asking,  

I'm not a big fan of Matt black cars, but have had one.

The kids called it 'shine'.

Trust you to notice the lights!

seeing as the listing just ended, did you just buy it?   

probably best it sold to someone else! 

it was very tempting, but the very sparse description and low seller feedback etc made me a quite weary about it, not to mention the rough body work, now while we dont care about rough body work, there is the question of what does it say for the underside of the car which the seller provided no pictures of....

(when you say the kids call it shine are you talking about the paint or those things on the lights?)

[Christine]

They're called blue dots...started in the 30's... Supposed to contrast with red light so they're.   more visible in poor conditions...how legal? No idea.