invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

15 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

^^^ at least it has gone to good home where it will be conserved. Perhaps Simon could be persuaded to ask the vendor of the TD if he or she would like to provide some information on that 'Model 70 in the background' for your research? Alternatively, why not contact the vendor yourself and ask? Explain that a friend of yours has bought the TD, you have a Model 70 yourself and you are trying to compile a list of all surviving Model 70s. He or she can only say 'No' in which case you are no worse off than not asking at all!

aye exactly its what I was thinking  at least its gone to a good home as you say (and hopefully stable! its been bouncing around ebay etc since 2016 IIRC!)

and yeah already enquiring on both fronts there, but not got much out of simon sadly, so looks like Ill have to make contact with the seller through ebay, or hope I do get some details from simon!

[LightBulbFun]

had my 9th lesson yesterday

more of the same, although I think we took a different more direct route and traveled on some more major roads, im doing better regarding distance from parked cars etc, its not perfect but better than last time  

driving instructor says im doing well, apart from my steering when it comes to tight corners etc in that I need to turn the wheel quicker then I am currently, otherwise I risk hitting the kerb or going wide etc

next lesson is on friday where he wants to practice maneuvers with me, like parallel parking and reversing etc

should be quite interesting!  

 

 

also a few days ago I got the contact details of the person who currently owns ALB761A and some pictures of before and during its restoration  

I plan on formulating an email and getting in contact with him soon hopefully, i'm quite eager to not only get detailed Model 67 Mk15 pictures, but also to see if I can try and ID what the actual registration number of ALB761A is

as ALB761A originally NML72, is the ID of a Metal AC Acedes (I think Mk9) from 1963, it should not be on the Mk15 its currently on! sadly its not known how this Mk15 Model 57 came to wear the ID of an AC Acedes Model 57 Mk9 registration/ID, but me and stuart think it was done for similar or same reasons that MPH759P where rung etc

(its interesting to note that NML72 is no a Surrey registration mark, so I wonder if the AC Acedes it was originally off of was a private one or not...)

sadly a lot of pictures/people on the internet are calling it/think its a 1963 Invacar, because apparently at the NEC the big AC display board inside called it an Invacar.... *sigh*

and the false registration plate comes back as 1963, see this is why ringing is not good and why im eiger to correct it when possible! as not only is it of dubious legality, its also very misleading to the public!

 

 

sadly its not known where/if Model 67's have a chassis number on the actual chassis itself, im hoping they do and that I can find it!

(if I can find one, then it should give me a lead on IDing the Mk14 and Mk15 that the ICR also own, which have no outward identifying marks)

 

I just realised I have on my radar, a Model 70 wearing the ID of a Model 67, and a Model 67 wearing the ID of a Model 57 LOL

[Mrs6C]

^^^ Be careful of wording! As ringing refers to deliberate substitution of another identify for illegal purposes such as to disguise a stolen vehicle, it's better to avoid use of the phrase, especially in a public forum!

[LightBulbFun]

19 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

^^^ Be careful of wording! As ringing refers to deliberate substitution of another identify for illegal purposes such as to disguise a stolen vehicle, it's better to avoid use of the phrase, especially in a public forum!

dont worry I did not say ringing in my email to the owner of ALB, and I made sure to say that im not accusing him of doing anything bad, and that im just letting him know incase he is not aware that its on another cars plates and that id like to help him figure out its true ID for him and my own records  

19 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

As ringing refers to deliberate substitution of another identify for illegal purposes such as to disguise a stolen vehicle,

I am aware of what it means and sadly they where rung in the truest sense,

remember that it was only after 2004 that all government invalid vehicles become public domain

before 2004 they were stolen government property and to try and stop the government from taking them back at the time, many where given false IDs etc

which if im not mistaken is the exact definition of ringing!

(even if they were destined for the scrap yard the government had a strict policy on it all sadly, especially after some dodgy shenanigans done with invalid vehicles in the 1980s and early 1990s, which sadly lead to some types going extinct entirely sadly )

(the only government vehicles before then legally released into non government hands where a small group of vehicles donated to various museums by the DHSS in the 1990s)

 

thankfully as mentioned previously in 2019 this is all a "non issue" as all government invalid vehicles became public domain in 2004, but Im still having to deal with the mess that was made in the 1990s etc!

and especially as its a non issue now, I would like to try and return the original IDs to as many vehicles as I can  

[Mr Pastry]

14 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

 

and especially as its a non issue now, I would like to try and return the original IDs to as many vehicles as I can  

LBF, How are you going to do that unless the vehicles belong to you?

I don't mean to be confrontational - this is a very interesting thread, I read it every time I log on here, and I admire your enthusiasm and persistence, but what people do with their own vehicles is up to them, and  some may get upset if you tell them they have the wrong chassis number, etc.  There things happen for all sorts of reasons, and sometimes it is better to let sleeping dogs lie,  By all means keep detailed records, but you need the co-operation of all the owners if you are going to continue your researches, so a bit of tact and diplomacy is called for!

Hopefully once you get mobile you will  be able to trace and talk to some of the people who built and worked on these cars, and IMHO that will contribute more to the history than  anything else. 

 

[Mrs6C]

The right message tends to be everything in today's world... perhaps the one here is that LBF is offering a free service to help those keepers who are interested in the history of their vehicle and/or who might like to find out if it wears its original plates (because there was some confusion on these in the latter days of regular service e.g. body and/or chassis swaps made at service time to keep older vehicles running) and if it isn't and they want to get that original registration back (assuming it is available) then he's very happy to help.

Something couched like that shouldn't offend anyone but hopefully inspire interest and perhaps take-up of LBF's quite generous offer.

It does need to be handled sensitively to engage everyone in the most positive way and I think we're all in agreement on that.

[LightBulbFun]

40 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

LBF, How are you going to do that unless the vehicles belong to you?

I don't mean to be confrontational - this is a very interesting thread, I read it every time I log on here, and I admire your enthusiasm and persistence, but what people do with their own vehicles is up to them, and  some may get upset if you tell them they have the wrong chassis number, etc.  There things happen for all sorts of reasons, and sometimes it is better to let sleeping dogs lie,  By all means keep detailed records, but you need the co-operation of all the owners if you are going to continue your researches, so a bit of tact and diplomacy is called for!

Hopefully once you get mobile you will  be able to trace and talk to some of the people who built and worked on these cars, and IMHO that will contribute more to the history than  anything else. 

 

well if someone doesn't want their vehicle registered under its proper ID

then theres not much I can do about that! simple as that, I cant force them to do it, as you say  unless it belongs to me I cant do much!

but what I can do about it is at least let them know about it so they can make the choice for themselves

and pretty much everyone iv spoken to has wanted their vehicle properly IDed, and has been very thankful that i have been able to properly ID their vehicle for them

(in one case even enabling the guy to keep a Model 70 he thought he would be forced to sell, see the MPH759P/Q231PVL adventure )

especially as a lot of these ringed/miss identified vehicles are usually not with the person that did the initial ringing anymore, and a lot of people dont actually realise their vehicle has been rung or was part some approved repairer shenanigans back in the day

 

its worth remembering there are 3 "categories" here, all of which ultimately boil down to the same goal of try and identify the vehicles original identity

1: vehicles which have no outward identity, ie have lost their physical reg and or chassis plates, OPH868R for example

2: vehicles which have been rung under false identities, Q231PVL/MPH759P for example

and finally 3: vehicles wearing the identity of another vehicle of the same type, usually down to approved repairs swapping chassis plates and registration plates around to save on paperwork/time, aka the London Transport way of doing things, see SPU145M for such an example  

(an example would be lets say Dorris just crashed her Model 70, rather then go through the faff of issuing her another Model 70 or a temporary Model 70 while the old one is being fixed, some approved repairers would take the Registration and chassis plates off of the dead Model 70, and screw/rivet them onto a working Model 70 they had outback, that way they dont have to faff around with paperwork etc!)

 

and as mentioned when I contact the owners of such vehicles I do make sure to word things properly as not to cause concern/alarm   (trust me I dont just run up to them and say "oi m8 your car a ringer! m8")

but when im discussing the practices in general in this thread as I talk about my research I will use the properly terminology even if its a bit "harsh" especially if i'm trying to explain something, If I start beating around the bush, it might make things harder to understand!

 

but im happy to hear your finding the thread interesting  and indeed once I get mobile the plan is very much to get out there and find the people as you say

I already keep a mental "hit list" of places people and cars I want to visit! (including GPG721K up in glasgow that's going to be a fun/interesting drive in REV!  ) 

 

23 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

The right message tends to be everything in today's world... perhaps the one here is that LBF is offering a free service to help those keepers who are interested in the history of their vehicle and/or who might like to find out if it wears its original plates (because there was some confusion on these in the latter days of regular service e.g. body and/or chassis swaps made at service time to keep older vehicles running) and if it isn't and they want to get that original registration back (assuming it is available) then he's very happy to help.

Something couched like that shouldn't offend anyone but hopefully inspire interest and perhaps take-up of LBF's quite generous offer.

It does need to be handled sensitively to engage everyone in the most positive way and I think we're all in agreement on that.

indeed well said  

and as you say the right message is everything and its for that exact reason for example, im yet to tell the owners of TTW906R, that their Model 70 is actually TVW4R despite the fact I have known this fact for a couple months now,

because having spoken to the owners before hand and got to know their level of understanding and knowing the tricky one this is, I know I have to formulate the right message, and im still figuring that what the right message/wording would be

(im currently thinking that once im mobile, ill just arrange to meet the owners in person and explain it in person rather then over facebook messenger!)

 

[LightBulbFun]

I noticed when going to check some Model 70 details on the DVLA checker that things looked a little bit diffrent, clicked through

low and behold "date of last V5C (logbook) issued" thats new!  it was not there earlier in the day!

 

seems to work pretty well going as far back as 1979 in the case of this Tippen Delta

 

but its not totally reliable sadly

 

I also noticed that vehicle status just says not taxed for on road use, rather then Not taxed or Taxed or Taxed and due as it used to do before for "not taxed for on road use"

 

I wonder what prompted these additions and changes to the DVLA checker?

im very excited about it, as its that little bit more info to help me in my research especially when trying to figure out if a vehicle is a survivor or not  (and also handy for tracking how your V62s are going!)

(ie even if its been untaxed since 1979 if I see that it had a V5 issued in 2019 then I know its likely out there still!)

I wonder if someone at the DVLA reads this thread or something, as this change seem awfully tailored to me LOL

Thank you whoever you are! (funnily enough date of last V5 issued is one of the things my fancy tool cant reliably tell me!)

I also noticed wheelplan has changed from "3-WHEEL" to "3 WHEEL"

and also the "vehicle not found" screen is updated

side note @egg I noticed XWC468F's last V5 was issued on the 5th of November, I thought that was fitting given REV451R was registered on the 5th of november  

[Mrs6C]

6 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I noticed when going to check some Model 70 details on the DVLA checker that things looked a little bit diffrent, clicked through

low and behold "date of last V5C (logbook) issued" thats new! 

I wonder what prompted these additions and changes to the DVLA checker?

im very excited about it, as its that little bit more info to help me in my research especially when trying to figure out if a vehicle is a survivor or not  

(ie even if its been untaxed since 1979 if I see that it had a V5 issued in 2019 then I know its likely out there still!)

I wonder if someone at the DVLA reads this thread or something, as this change seem awfully tailored to me LOL

Thank you whoever you are! (funnily enough date of last V5 issued is one of the things my fancy tool cant reliably tell me!)

You've broken it!!!

[LightBulbFun]

17 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

You've broken it!!!

still working for me!  either that or I have such strong enthusiasm for the invacar that I have managed will myself a better DVLA checker! LOL

its interesting the GPG721Ks last V5 was in 2006, because according to my Tool the last keeper change was only in 1980! 

I wonder if it was the case of a V5 being issued automatically, I know a while back a bunch of blank V5s went missing, and the DVLA said they would issue everyone new V5s etc

so I wonder if its something like that, or if there is actually something else going on  I do know that 1980 coincides with when we think the museum got GPG721K so perhaps its just been in the museum's name for a very long time

 

 

on a separate but related note (that i have been meaning to mention for a couple months now and this seems like a good time to do so!)

its interesting to note that stuart told me that, he has several invalid vehicles that at the time he entered them into his records, did not show up on the DVLA

but do now show up on the DVLA, (sadly its not known when, its just we noticed "hang on that vehicle shows up for you?! it did not for me at the time!"

for example LPD806D being one of those, its interesting to note that for all these vehicles that didn't show up on the DVLA at some point in time and now do show up

all generally have pretty old tax due dates of 1979-1981, much like @egg Invacar, I  wonder if these are vehicles that somehow got brought back to life from the DVLAs archives

preps someone blissfully unaware that their vehicle does not show up anymore, sent a V62 off and well the DVLA unarchived things and put it back on there, all without telling anyone

 

for example stuart told me that the hammond microcar collection did have a reorganization in 2005 IIRC

which lines up with the last V5 issued for LPD806D, perhaps back then it was not on the online records, then someone at the museum sent off for the V5, and low and behold like @egg invacar it got stuck back on the system  

 

(its also interesting to know for while most vehicles from this time have "UNKNOWN" as the Model in the MOT checker, these "brought back to life" vehicles don't have that)

[LightBulbFun]

I also noticed that instead of "0cc" it will now say "not available" and also it seemingly gives a year of manufacture regardless of how long the vehicle has been inactive for (beforehand, on vehicles which had not seen activity for a while it would not say the year of manufacture)

 

it will still happily claim this Tippen Delta has a 10L engine despite being electric LOL

 

thats another thing I noticed over time, is that if a vehicle originally started life out with no cyclener capacity on the V5

but survived/continued to be taxed throughout a certain period of time, it will have gained the eronus 9999cc figure, but if the vehicle was untaxed/inactive before that period of time, then they will just come back as 0cc or now as "not available"

for example early Model 70's that survived until the end with 2002-2004 tax due dates are mostly 9999cc but the ones that are tax due 1983 or something, are all 0cc

again this is another thing I noticed a while back and now seems a good time to mention it!

[LightBulbFun]

Hmm I just realised

I wonder if this is some sort of programming bug?

as I just remembered when you put your V5 number into the "view tax rates" thing one of the things it told you was the date of the last V5 issued

(I twigged this because REVs page looked awfully familiar like I had seen that line before, and of course I have the V5 number for REV and I have put it into the DVLA checker previously)

they also updated said with V5 number page, before when I did it for REV, all I got was the Date of last V5 and a more exact date of first registration (note it says 5 November 1976 rather then just November 1976 like it says normally)

now I also get these blue boxes and a "12 months rate" line which I did not get before (I did find it amusing that previously the "show tax rates" button never showed me the tax rates but I chalked that up to because Invacar)

 

 

 

if the "date of last v5" without the V5 number on all results is a programming bug I hope its not fixed because its been quite handy  

[LightBulbFun]

On 11/2/2019 at 9:19 PM, LightBulbFun said:

yeah I did think that, however the front end is much more AC like  

if it is really based off an invalid vehicle, I imagine whoever was responsible for designing it probably just googled or pulled up a bunch of different invalid vehicle pictures and used different elements from each type  

 

happy to hear you got stuarts small book, indeed it is! I look forward very much to the big book when that comes out  

 

BTW I have been wondering about the whole parallelogram front suspension thing

its stated in the small book that it was introduced with the Acedes Mk14, and that then Invacar was forced to adopt it, resulting in a bit later on the Invacar Mk12E (well the book does not say Invacar was forced to adopt it, however in a couple places elsewhere on the internet stuart mentions they where)

however as seen by the pictures I got of a Mk14, and the DHSS parts Book, its clear that the Parallelogram suspension was only introduced with the Mk15, with the Mk14 having C Tube suspension Like other invalid vehicles of the Time

 

now I sadly don't know exactly when the AC Acedes Mk15 was introduced, but I do know a couple things

1 the Invacar Mk12E definitely looks to have been introduced by April 1969, as I know of a couple survivors from then

and 2 I know of WPK129G, which was first registered January 1969, and im pretty sure its a Mk14A, because I have a picture of WPK62G, and you can quite clearly see the front mould lines and lack of towing "eye" that make the Mk14 (and I suspect its a Mk14A based on how late it is for a Mk14)

so that means the AC Acedes Mk15, must of been introduced after January 1969,

which makes me wonder if the AC Acedes Mk15 and Invacar Mk12E where introduced at roughly the same time, and I wonder if it was because, by April 1969 the Model 70 was very much in development, and I wonder if the DHSS saw front the parallelogram front suspension design of the Model 70, and requested it be fitted to existing Models in production?

therefore forcing Both Invacar and AC at the same time to adapt their vehicles for it resulting in the AC Acedes Mk15 and Invacar Mk12E at the same time? (although worth noting that the Model 64 only gained parallelogram suspension with the Model 64 Mk5 in June 1970 starting with CPH29H, but the Model 64 was a much more niche vehicle then the others)

the whole suspension thing is just a theory/hunch of mine, Iv passed it onto stuart, im curious to seeing what he thinks of it!

 

the oldest Mk15 I know that shows up on the DVLA is BPK646H, the newest (and well only that I know of!) Mk14 to show up is WPK129G

I may do some block hunting at some point, between WPK-G and BPK-H (so Wxx Xxx Yxx Axx Bxx) see if I can figure anything out that way, Ie when exactly was the Acedes Mk15 was introduced etc

but there's a lot of surry markers, PA PB PC PD PE PF PG PH PJ PK PL PM 

12 if im counting correctly combined with the 5 leading letters is 60 registration serieses, which even in jumps of 200 (since ACs are generally registered in blocks of 200) will take a fair while!

esp given how fewer normal cars from the period show up still, which makes block hunting even more time consuming because if I go from say REG123 then go up 100 say to REG223 and REG223 turns up nothing, I have to jog one by one backwards and then forward until something shows to make sure I have or have not just landed in the middle of an invalid vehicle block, and that can add a lot of time to the process! (and thats assuming once I do "find" a block that any still show up!, out of 200 cars, WPK129G is the only from its block to show up still for example!)

its a good way to kill time at least esp with some good music cued up  

been doing some research/thinking on this front

now with the new tool instead of hunting for reg blocks I can directly shove chassis numbers in and see what the regs are  

I still have to go through the chassis numbers 1 by 1 as very few invalid vehicles from this time period are still on the DVLA database sadly, but its much quicker then hunting for blocks then going through the blocks 1 by 1

(the one downside to searching via chassis number is if a vehicle has a slightly different chassis number for some reason then it means ill miss it sadly)

and with this I found YPE918G, which if its chassis number is anything to go by is an early Mk15 Model 67, its the earliest Mk15 I can find, being 188th off the production line I think

now it was registered on the 8th July 1969 and so going by how early this car this is I estimate the first Mk15s would of showed up in either late May or early June 1969

which means if the April 1969 Mk12s I know of are actually from april 1969 and are actually 12Es then that means

that Invacar was the first to show up with parallelogram front suspension NOT AC which is a very interesting twist on the whole story....

although it could be that just Invacar was quicker to implement the new suspension design into their existing product then AC was, and that the design did still come from AC/the Model 70.

of course I have passed these findings onto stuart and it will be interesting to see what he has to say about them  

(if nothing else it backs up my theory that AC and Invacar adopted parallelogram front suspension at roughly the same time, rather then 1 company having it for a while before the other)

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Pieman said:

Seeing the banger racing links made me want to get involved too, as I have been a committed bangerack for many years and love researching the sport's history.  The story about the Timelord possibly being raced at Swaffham made me delve into my records even at this late hour - some even more hardcore bangeracks than me have managed to compile fairly comprehensive lists of any unusual or notable cars to be raced across the sport's history.

 

you dont happen to have any records of invalid vehicles going round the oval do you?

Stuart was involved in banger racing back in the day, and he recalls a few Model 70's going round the track, including a special event where an entire field of 15 Model 70's went round the oval

it would be interesting to hear of any details of these events if there's anything out there  

I just have this 1 photograph from an event, im not sure which where or when

 

stuart said that the Model 70's did surprising well around the oval out gunning everything except the hot rodded escorts apparently!

and unlike reliants he did not recall them ending up with bits of fibreglass bodywork falling off all over the place

[Pieman]

That looks like the pit area at Standlake Arena near Oxford, and I have been told in the past a couple of Invacars went out with the Reliants there but I don't know what years.  Never heard of a dedicated oval race for the things though, so that's one to research.

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, Pieman said:

That looks like the pit area at Standlake Arena near Oxford, and I have been told in the past a couple of Invacars went out with the Reliants there but I don't know what years.  Never heard of a dedicated oval race for the things though, so that's one to research.

ah good to know  

yeah stuart says it was some sort of charity event in 1990 if that helps narrow down the search,

as to where you got 15 Model 70's back then when they where all still government property, well  2 of the people on a banger team worked at an approved repairer apparently

so "what better way" to scrap the Model 70's they had out back then to send them all round the oval, then at the end of the race they were taken back to be officially scrapped

 

he also talked about another 8 that went out at some point, where he said the only one he recalls falling over was one that crashed into a tractor tyre marking the course where it went over the tyre landed on its side, uprighted itself and carried on racing LOL

 

I feel sorry for the poor sod who ended up with a Model 67 or something like after seeing all the Model 70's go round the track, and not noticing the visual differences between them and his vehicle and then getting utterly mullered on the track!

 

[cms206]

TPE 376S has broken cover on the Isle of Skye! Apparantly acquired for spares for another one?

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

so had my 10th driving lesson today

(I think! adding up the hours iv spent I think I might have failed to update this thread at some point in time, but not 100% sure there)

it went well  im getting better/more confident at at roundabouts which is good!, we also did my first bit of parallel parking/reversing into a parking spot, I managed to avoid horribly curbing a wheel yay! but I still have the issue of im not turning the steering wheel quick enough, hopefully things improve overtime in that front, and theres a couple other things im a bit slow at.

 but im getting to grips with this whole actually giving it throttle while letting up/slipping the clutch up to get the car moving quickly and pulling out of junctions and traffic lights in a quick and timely manner, and I even managed a hill start without rolling backwards, which is good because the other guy was right on my arse LOL

(I think the reason im a bit slow on certain things is im still a bit worried about what if I do something quickly, but then suddenly the situation around me changes and I don't have time to react etc)

 

throughout the lessons one of the fun things about actually driving around London, is you see just how horribly other people drive, for example during a lesson or 2 back, someone up ahead was at a red light and they just decided to pull out to their right drive along the wrong side of the road and go around (literally!) the red light LOL

was one of those "did I really just see someone do that" moments LOL

the next lesson is on monday

 

also Woo 4000th post! and what post milestone would not be complete without something special Model 70 wise  

so have this neat little excerpt from the 1985 edition of a brief pictorial history of the invalid tricycle

and its a slightly clearer picture of the Prototype Model 70  

the script on the right is not thought to be totally accurate, its thought that its actually P5 thats pictured and not P6 (P6 is thought to be the first fitted with a steyr puch engine and was the first to have a widened track)

also im pretty sure the Model 70 pictured itself is from 1967, (although the pic may be from 1968) as the Reg quite clearly says "PPL" and If I understand how registration numbers where issued back then I dont think there was any PPL-F or PPL-G registrations issued where there?

which would mean its PPL-E which is 1967 which is also what this website says http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/registrations/pl.htm

the question is what is its full registration number, stuart apparently has an even clearer picture stashed away somewhere that he is saving for the big book  

and he says looking at the photo its still hard to tell but he is pretty sure that the reg starts with 1 after "PPL", he thinks its either PPL18E or PPL185E

if its known to start with 1, then thats PPL1xxE which is not that many registrations for me to smash into the DVLA checker, but thats assuming it shows up on the DVLA! I may have a stab at it anyways, who knows maybe ill come across other Prototype Model 70's like I did when I accidentally found the other BPE-H cars  

 

its also very interesting to note that it is on 10 inch wheels, I wonder if the Model 70 was designed for 10 inch wheels, but changed to 12 inch wheels on order of the DHSS, because 12 inch wheels was the DHSS standard spec for all other vehicles at the time, so by using 12 inch wheels it meant they would be able to use existing stock etc

but then once people started complaining during the early 1970s, they allowed the Model 70 to switch to 10 inch wheels in hopes it would quell some of the complaints by improve handling 

also it looks like P5 was the 2 seater prototype that was mentioned during the early days of this thread, if anyone remembers that far back!  

I wonder if P5 was the 2 seater tricycle from the "which report" trials marion and dennis took part in? I wonder if theres any pictures from that trial, would be very interesting to see what the tricycles where!

[LightBulbFun]

54 minutes ago, cms206 said:

TPE 376S has broken cover on the Isle of Skye! Apparantly acquired for spares for another one?

 

 

not quite broken cover just yet!

(it was never covered up in the first place sadly LOL)

those are photos he just posted a from a while back when someone else visited it with a view to buy, but decided not to as the guy selling it at the time wanted £LOL espically given how poor condition chassis is in etc,

but indeed @OliD-E is enroute as we speak to collect TPE376S from skye to use it as a body and driveline donor for KPL139P, I think the seller finally realised that unless he got sensible no one was going to buy it!

but despite how sad it is condition wise, its pretty much perfect for @OliD-E as he has KPL139P which is a fairly good rolling chassis, but with no drive line or much body work, where as TPE376S has actual intact body work, and something resembling a drive line, but a very rotten chassis, (apparently the engine does run so thats always a good start!) 

so I think the plan is take the body and rive line from TPE and stuff it into/onto KPLs chassis and make 1 good Model 70 out of the 2

I am very curious as to what the history of TPE376S was, ie how did it get to skye and how did it end up with who it did end up with in skye!

 

I appreciate the heads up tho  

[OliD-E]

not quite broken cover just yet!
(it was never covered up in the first place sadly LOL)
those are photos he just posted a from a while back when someone else visited it with a view to buy, but decided not to as the guy selling it at the time wanted £LOL espically given how poor condition chassis is in etc,
but indeed [mention=27014]OliD-E[/mention] is enroute as we speak to collect TPE376S from skye to use it as a body and driveline donor for KPL139P, I think the seller finally realised that unless he got sensible no one was going to buy it!
but despite how sad it is condition wise, its pretty much perfect for [mention=27014]OliD-E[/mention] as he has KPL139P which is a fairly good rolling chassis, but with no drive line or much body work, where as TPE376S has actual intact body work, and something resembling a drive line, but a very rotten chassis, (apparently the engine does run so thats always a good start!) 
so I think the plan is take the body and rive line from TPE and stuff it into/onto KPLs chassis and make 1 good Model 70 out of the 2
I am very curious as to what the history of TPE376S was, ie how did it get to skye and how did it end up with who it did end up with in skye!
 
I appreciate the heads up tho  

About 3 hrs away this morning got most of the driving done last night i will put some pictures on here for you when i get to TPE!

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, OliD-E said:

About 3 hrs away this morning got most of the driving done last night i will put some pictures on here for you when i get to TPE!

Awesome, I look forward to the more up to date and better detailed pics of TPE  

 

[High Jetter]

I don't know if it's possible on your case LBF, but if you can get any practise (with a qualified driver) in between your lessons it should make a big difference to your confidence and progress on the road.

[LightBulbFun]

2 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

I don't know if it's possible on your case LBF, but if you can get any practise (with a qualified driver) in between your lessons it should make a big difference to your confidence and progress on the road.

id love to be able to do that, but sadly no one I know locally has a car etc (and by people I know locally I mean my mum because I dont really know anyone else locally sadly) 

im just very thankful for the experience @Zelandeth gave me in the lada and @Mrs6C and co gave me at the FoD  

[LightBulbFun]

had my 11th driving lesson today  (or well technically yesterday at the time of writing LOL)

we practiced parallel parking some more, think I was getting the hang of it reasonably  well by the end of the of practicing it  

and as per normal now, (as we start from home and I drove to the location) I did more mingling with London traffic, 

(im glad my personal car is an automatic with the amount of stop start, awkward cant quite let off the clutch fully 5-7Mph traffic there is!)

it was also raining throughout so I had a bit of a lesson/experience driving in wet weather, which is always good to add to the roster  

next lesson is scheduled for friday  

(plan over the next few lessons is to learn the rest of the maneuvers, and then once those are done with, start treating each lesson as if it was a driving test, and see how I do etc)

and just as a refresher or for those new to this thread etc, each lesson is 2 hours long

[LightBulbFun]

interesting this one shows 0cc still despite most "0cc" vehicles now just saying "not available"

(been doing some more Model 67 research, turns out that as well as the Prototype Model 70's there's a Block of Model 67's in the BPE-H reg range  BPE501H-BPE700H I think )

curiously the BPE-H Model 70's (BPE22H BPE29H BPE30H are the 3 that show up on the DVLA still)  have much lower reg numbers, but where registered (July 29th) much later then the much higher numbered Model 67 block

I suspect that AC reserved those registration numbers pretty early on in Jan 1970, but only registered them them, when the Prototype Model 70's  they where reserved for where ready, hence them being registered much later then the rest of the BPE-H registration series , or maybe for some reason AC did not want to give up those registrations (as August would of ment a suffix change and then they obviously could not use those registrations anymore)

so they registered those Model 70s even if said Model 70's where not ready to go on the road or such?

[LightBulbFun]

On 11/14/2019 at 1:35 AM, LightBulbFun said:

 

Yay found an earlier Mk14 that shows up on the DVLA which means I can pull its chassis number and finally see what a Mk14's chassis number looks like  

continuing with the Model 67 research, since I now knew what the earlier Mk14 chassis numbers looked like thanks to the above

I knuckled down and starting from what would be Chassis No 1, I went through them with my tool in Chassis to Reg number mode, until something popped up

I wanted to find the oldest Mk14 I could, as this would give me a good clue as to if the RPA-E block is the first Mk14/Model 67 block, and give me a better idea of when they where introduced etc  

and I managed to find SPD866F,  which is what I suspect was the 292th Mk14/Model 67, its the oldest Mk14/Model 67 I can find that still shows up on the DVLA 

looking at the date of first registration of 10th october, its early chassis number and that it looks like RPA-E was first issued May 1967, and knowing generally how long it took to produce a block, id say that indeed the RPA-E block is either the first Model 67 block or is is very close to it  

the fun thing is I have a photograph of RPA451E, which happens to be when the RPA-E block starts, so that means potentially we have a photograph of the first (production at least!) Model 67  

 

[LightBulbFun]

haha @Zelandeth check it out  second oldest Model 67 I can find (and 261 is an anagram of 621 to boot)

also one for @quicksilver since he noted that TPA621M was parked ahead of TPA729F a rover P5 at the FotU https://flic.kr/p/2gTjQAy

who knew there was a block of AC invalid vehicles in there too  

 

 

looks like its TPA251F-TPA450F, (I searched for a block/one after the SPD-F block as I noticed some slight oddities with SPD866F's chassis number and I wanted to check if that was down to something up with that specific vehicle or just in general something a bit odd about the early Mk14 blocks, and it looks like its "just" something a bit odd about the early Mk14 blocks)

[LightBulbFun]

heres a fun one  Untaxed since July 78, but last keeper change on 1st of the 3rd 1992, and the last V5 was issued on the 18th of may 1992, its also the first Model 67 I have found where the engine size is properly recorded LOL

I wonder if this one survives somewhere, either that, or someone found it on the dusty shelves of Heywood and got rid of it

(the 1990s was when the DHSS/IVS wound up the last of the Villers machines more or less)

(currently going through the chassis numbers to find when the FG chassis block ends and when the TA chassis block starts)

[LightBulbFun]

Just "finished" My Model 67 research

the very interesting and cool thing is

we had a production number figure for the Model 67, of 5928, from the brief pictorial history of the invalid tricycle

now I always wondered just how accurate etc that was, seeing as when the first edition was written in 1976, they could of easily gone to AC and asked them!

and well based on all the DVLA bashing iv done over the past few days, that number is actually pretty much bang on accurate  

I also now have much more data on the Model 67, when each revision entred and ended production etc, which is very exciting, as beforehand there was actually not much known about the Model 67 in that regard, so im quite happy to have been able to patch that hole!

the only thing is, it doesn't look like that covered private examples

but it could be the Private 67's where just not included in the list/figures given by AC for one reason or another, or maybe AC never sold any private Model 67's!

or maybe, the numbers iv calculated take me to 5900, i'm still trying to place those last 28, perhaps those are the private examples...

 

for those wondering the Last Model 67 block looks to be FPB781J-FPB880J, looks like there was about a 2 month gap between the end of the Model 67 and the start of Model 70 production

 

all this research also means, that I now have enough data/Model 67 chassis and reg numbers to be able to ID almost any Model 67 from its chassis number now, if say I have lost its reg plate or something such

until now, I only had enough data to ID Model 70's from their chassis numbers, so to be able to now also the same with a villers machine is a pretty big milestone!

[Mrs6C]

^^^ Well done! This is a great research project!