invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[500tops]

You won't lose at 300 notes

[LightBulbFun]

I've been following this with a lot of interest and a lot of internal conflict.

 

When I was LBF's age I also had dreams of running about in entirely unsuitable motor cars, and managed to own some of them - usually with high ideas of learning to fix them up and eventually doing so.  Those ideas never came about and I don't have the excuse of a knackered back.

 

I don't regret anything: I had enormous fun behind the wheel of a Rover P6 that was older than me and broke down about every 50 miles, but I have to concede that the grim reality was not pretty.  I spent too much of my early 20s sitting on hard shoulders.  I really winced at some of the earlier posts from Cap'n 70s and others describing how looking after knackered old cars when you're young and don't have much money can really bring you to your knees.  I've been there and it wasn't fun.

 

But I've held back from discouraging LBF because your enthusiasm is so obvious and because there's so much of this community behind you.  I'm really touched by the way Zelandeth has taken you under his wing and I hope I would do the same if a member in my local area popped up.

 

Of course, they might be put off  by the Rover P6 that's been sat dead in my mum's garage for the last 15 years...

 

I don't want you to get into a difficult situation, but I've also seen disabled people do some really amazing things so with everything weighed up I can only say: GO FOR IT.

 

Egg, on the other hand, is a grownup and I can feel free to cheerlead him into buying a totally stupid lump of fibreglass - go for it buddy!

 

Thank you, its nice to get some positive talk once in a while,

 

I will admit, that when I said to someone (not sure if it was on here or elsewhere) that there are worse first cars I could be chasing after, your rover P6 came to mind 

 

an AC Invacar Model 70 is positively basic compared to a Rover P6 and most cars of today, so I think if you look at it objectively ignoring the fact it says "invalid car" on the vin plate, it does not actually make for such a horrible first car, and they do (well TWC) look to be actually pretty reliable so hopefully i wont break down in the middle of oxford circus too many times 

 

plus my life is pretty much at rock bottom in most other departments so I dont really have much to lose so to speak

 

(I very much look forward to being able to hop in my invacar and just go for an idle drive around to get away from it all)

 

 

£300 seems steep to me. But what do I know.

 

Came here to post this one that was at OhSoRetro last year. Apologies if it's been posted.

 

ohhh!

 

a picture iv not come across before nice find

 

iv come across that Model 70 before but not that picture

 

as with all my other pictures I saved the picture to my computer and uploaded it here, because just incase if the orignial site its from goes Pop, at least the picture will be preserved here and on my computer

 

[Amishtat]

Another Essex registered example!

[LightBulbFun]

Another Essex registered example!

 

yeah it should be

 

it looks like pretty much every Model 70 was registered in relation to the location of the factory it came from

 

and Invacar (the company/factory) was in Essex

 

(well im still trying to crack the Northern Ireland examples and im not sure what the 1 scottish registered one a few pages back is about)

 

but yeah otherwise it looks like the Invacar Model 70s where registered where the Invacar factory was and the AC made Model 70s where registered where the AC factory was 

[steveo3002]

all those saying 300 is too much ,,,where is the cheaper one?

 

think you would get your money back all day long if its cleaned up and advertised well

 

only the price of a service at a stealers aint it

[dollywobbler]

The Oh So Retro one belongs to St185 or whatever his handle is. I can never remember.

[greengartside]

Only just saw this thread. Frosts is only about half an hour from mine! I may be able to help with moving etc, if egg does decide to buy it. It’s got to be worth a chance, surely.

[egg]

Only just saw this thread. Frosts is only about half an hour from mine! I may be able to help with moving etc, if egg does decide to buy it. It’s got to be worth a chance, surely.

 

Hi GG - I have set up a separately shitely thread to discuss this. Thanks for the offer of help.

[egg]

I'm just comparing the engine bay of the Norwich Mk12 compared to a museum quality one. Lets disregard the rust - but it is all there? Apart from the engine shield. Can you spot anything missing? You can even see 'our' one has the chain guard in place (probably removed for show in the museum one).

 

Of course it is missing an engine cover, along with a door, oh and a windscreen etc etc lol.

 

[GrumpiusMaximus]

Your recent video is interesting, Egg...

[LightBulbFun]

I'm just comparing the engine bay of the Norwich Mk12 compared to a museum quality one. Lets disregard the rust - but it is all there? Apart from the engine shield. Can you spot anything missing? You can even see 'our' one has the chain guard in place (probably removed for show in the museum one).

 

Of course it is missing an engine cover, along with a door, oh and a windscreen etc etc lol.

 

engine bay.jpg

 

im not an expert in Mk12s/villiers engines but it looks like most things are there

 

im sure plasticvandan (or any other villiers licker) will be able to give us some more insite into it all

 

I didn't actually notice the wind screen was missing... (I thought it was there, but looking at the picture it looks like the entire wind screen piller doorside has gone walkies)

 

I wonder if all the missing bits (door mainly) are still lying around the yard somewhere?

 

I wonder if its worth asking if "BigAl" here http://rumcars.org/forum/index.php?topic=5314.0  might have some spare Mk12 parts? (he mentions about breaking a Mk12 for spares) (as a side note i think the Model 70 in that thread is KPL 139P)

 

(I Think its the same BigAl that I made contact with via email a few posts back that has an entire Mk12 potentially for sale)

[egg]

Thanks.

 

Yes, whether it can be made fundamentally structurally sound is the thing. I'm sure getting a simple piece of toughened glass for the windscreen would be do-able. Getting a seal might be harder. I don't know.

 

I've got a million questions - I've got to get on to the invalid car register as well haven't I to see if I can get the DVLA to recognise it as an historic vehicle?

 

Anyway, mustn't jump too far ahead eh!

[egg]

I'm sure it will be scary enough to travel around Herne Bay with the Villiers (apparently they tune well!)

 

Sleuthing around Big Al's posts LBF - he thinks there are 45 Mk12's left - which sounds about right.

 

There's quite a bit he has written about Mk12 construction here, which gives me a tiny bit of hope...

 

http://rumcars.org/forum/index.php?topic=4439.msg34578#msg34578

[LightBulbFun]

still not sure what the deal is with the ICR these days, not even sure how you go about "joining it" if you still can? is something I should also chase up at some point!

 

it would be interesting to know how many of the invacars on how many left are Mk12 etc and how many are Model 70s (interesting to see that "so many" Mk12s survive, explains why I mostly see Mk12s after Model 70s, followed by Tippen Deltas, with Model 67s being very far and few between in my sleuthing sessions)

 

Yeah thats it! thats the post I was thinking about when I mentioned the Mk12E front suspension stuff a couple pages back

[LightBulbFun]

 

bringing this one back up because in light of the information from Datsuncog im pretty sure its a Belfast registered Northern Ireland Model 70

 

not sure on Date of registration tho not got that figured out quite yet... (the photo looks recent-ish but nothing comes up on the DVLA checker, can the DVLA checker do NI cars?)

 

now at over 20 pages of invacar based rambling 

[MorrisItalSLX]

I was watching Top Gear: Ambitious But Rubbish, a clip show of challenges with interludes by Richard Hammond, and these interludes are filmed in some sort of storage facility full of cars, one of which was this:

 

 

I have no idea if this one has already been documented in this thread, but the more the merrier.

[MorrisItalSLX]

bringing this one back up because in light of the information from Datsuncog im pretty sure its a Belfast registered Northern Ireland Model 70

 

not sure on Date of registration tho not got that figured out quite yet... (the photo looks recent-ish but nothing comes up on the DVLA checker, can the DVLA checker do NI cars?)

 

now at over 20 pages of invacar based rambling

If you look closely at the number plate it looks like it is just resting on the front lip and not actually attached.

[LightBulbFun]

I was watching Top Gear: Ambitious But Rubbish, a clip show of challenges with interludes by Richard Hammond, and these interludes are filmed in some sort of storage facility full of cars, one of which was this:

 

 

I have no idea if this one has already been documented in this thread, but the more the merrier.

 

hah cool not seen that shot/scene before  i dont know which that one is

 

but if I had to take a guess, going by its colour hue i wanna say its TJN352R

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/triggerscarstuff/4648973786/in/photostream/

 

[egg]

LBF, sorry being lazy and can't go through whole thread - but you know this one on your list yes?

 

[LightBulbFun]

LBF, sorry being lazy and can't go through whole thread - but you know this one on your list yes?

 

42094003_744350742570989_8092550844815245312_n.jpg

 

Ohh! another picture iv not come across before

 

funny you should post that one, as I just discovered that Model 70 just a few pages back (page 17 post 507)

 

I wonder what the details are on it, where did ya find the picture?

 

curiously it has a scottish reg plate.... (I think its the only non NI Model 70 iv seen with a reg plate thats not from where they where built, unless there was some going ons up in scotland that I dont know about?)

 

thank you for posting it

[egg]

It was on Facebook that one, I believe it has been for sale not that long ago.

[LightBulbFun]

It was on Facebook that one, I believe it has been for sale not that long ago.

 

got any more details on that? is it still for sale? how longs "not that long ago"? 

 

(also out of "market research" curiosity how much did the guy want for it/how much did it sell for?)

 

I know there was mention of something on facebook http://autoshite.com/topic/32723-wanted-an-invacar-ac-model-70-and-general-ramble-thread/page-6?do=findComment&comment=1689743 but despite being signed in and everything I couldn't (and still cant) see what the link was too for some reason

[egg]

Sorry, looks recently bought rather than sold, I'll PM you what I found on Facebook.

[LightBulbFun]

thank you for the details!

 

rather annoyed (not at anyone in particular) that I missed one so seemingly recent

[Yoss]

Here's a little light relief (pun intended) from all the Invacar stuff. I've been meaning to do this for a while but never quite get round to.

 

I know you like Routemasters and light bulbs so I thought I'd do a little tour of the lights on my bus. This is probably of interest to nobody else on the forum but you can all skip to the next post.

 

These are the tungsten saloon bulbs for an unrefurbished RM. You can still get them new from a guy in Shoreham.

 

This an original, this has Made in England stamped on it.

 

And a new one. This doesn't seem to have any country of origin on it.

 

I very rarely go out in the dark so these are seldom used so every so often I just switch them on to see if they still work. Usually several don't come on. In this case, on the offside (I have a seperate switch for near and offside but up and downstairs come on together) two out of four came on downstairs.

And four out of six upstairs. Not too bad.

They can usually be coaxed back into life with a bit of wiggling as was the case here.

Although the second one along has already dimmed again by the time I took this picture. The original bulbs are rather fragile. If you wiggle them too much or try to remove them the glass seperates from the brass bayonet. They can be removed very carefully with needle nose pliers on the brass bit.

 

Funnily enough as I was taking the above picture I heard a very gentle thud nearby and saw this wasp had appeared on the seat directly beneath the bulb nearest me. He'd obviously crawled into the space behind the bulb for a nap (do wasps hibernate, I've no idea?) and then I turned the lights on. For a while he probably thought 'mmm this is cosy' before moving on to 'ow ow ow ow ow fuck thats hot' and dropped out asap. He seemed a bit dazed but I scooped him into an empty bulb box and put him outside.

 

Anyway back to the bulbs. There are also these smaller 24v bulbs.

These are used in the blind boxes, sidelights and numberplate light.

Although in this case I have two large and one small bulb in the top row (the last one really is smaller, it's not just further away)

Mainly because I've repaired* the large bulbs with duct tape (as mentioned the glass and brass separate) and at three quid a pop I don't want to waste them so use them somewhere they cant be seen.

 

 

Downstairs on the front bulkhead is an illuminated advert panel.

This is powered by what I think is a fairly standard fluorescent tube.

It was being temperamental, glowing slightly but not lighting properly. Oddly (to me) it glowed brighter when I put my hand on it. Anyway one of my Atlantean owning friends gave me another one (it's the same as their saloon lighting) and voila.

I thought I'd taken a picture of the advert lit up but apparently not. But I thought I'd put it here again.

I like it as it uses the Routemaster slogan 'London bus of the future' but is actually for one of their first Olympians, L1, L2 and L3. When evaluating the next generation of buses to succeed the Titan and Metrobus they ordered three Olympians, three Volvo Ailsas and three Dennis Dominators and ran them together on the 170 I think. The Olympian won, sort of, as it was the only one LT bought in any numbers but London Buses was broken up soon after and any standardisation policy went out the window.

 

A few hundred Routemasters also had offside illuminated adverts. Mine has one and it sort of works but is temperamental. It has four large and one small fluorescent tube. They come on whenever the engine is running but they don't really show in daylight. Here's one picture in the dark.

That's three out of five. That's about normal but every time it's a different combination. The last time I saw it in the dark four worked and I was well chuffed.

 

They are controlled by these things behind the upstairs back seat.

 

Oddly there is a lock on the seat back as if anybody is going to steal them.

 

The cab light is the same as the saloon bulbs.

 

 

And oddly the headlights and indicators are 12v and use standard car bulbs even though the sidelights and number plate light are 24v.

 

I hope that's of some interest to you.

 

These last three images should have been further up bit I forgot and don't seem to be able to do it now. But they are:

 

The wasp.

 

The bulbs repaired with duct tape.

 

And the pointless lock on the back seat.

[LightBulbFun]

Here's a little light relief (pun intended) from all the Invacar stuff. I've been meaning to do this for a while but never quite get round to.

 

I know you like Routemasters and light bulbs so I thought I'd do a little tour of the lights on my bus. This is probably of interest to nobody else on the forum but you can all skip to the next post.

 

These are the tungsten saloon bulbs for an unrefurbished RM. You can still get them new from a guy in Shoreham.

IMG_20190209_092203.jpg

 

This an original, this has Made in England stamped on it.

IMG_20190209_092245.jpg

 

And a new one. This doesn't seem to have any country of origin on it.

IMG_20190209_092352.jpg

 

I very rarely go out in the dark so these are seldom used so every so often I just switch them on to see if they still work. Usually several don't come on. In this case, on the offside (I have a seperate switch for near and offside but up and downstairs come on together) two out of four came on downstairs.

IMG_20190209_092542.jpg

And four out of six upstairs. Not too bad.

IMG_20190209_092705.jpg

They can usually be coaxed back into life with a bit of wiggling as was the case here.

IMG_20190209_092759.jpg

Although the second one along has already dimmed again by the time I took this picture. The original bulbs are rather fragile. If you wiggle them too much or try to remove them the glass seperates from the brass bayonet. They can be removed very carefully with needle nose pliers on the brass bit.

 

Funnily enough as I was taking the above picture I heard a very gentle thud nearby and saw this wasp had appeared on the seat directly beneath the bulb nearest me. He'd obviously crawled into the space behind the bulb for a nap (do wasps hibernate, I've no idea?) and then I turned the lights on. For a while he probably thought 'mmm this is cosy' before moving on to 'ow ow ow ow ow fuck thats hot' and dropped out asap. He seemed a bit dazed but I scooped him into an empty bulb box and put him outside.

 

Anyway back to the bulbs. There are also these smaller 24v bulbs.

IMG_20190209_093010.jpgIMG_20190209_093051.jpg

These are used in the blind boxes, sidelights and numberplate light.

IMG_20190209_093424.jpg

Although in this case I have two large and one small bulb in the top row (the last one really is smaller, it's not just further away)

IMG_20190209_093608.jpg

Mainly because I've repaired* the large bulbs with duct tape (as mentioned the glass and brass separate) and at three quid a pop I don't want to waste them so use them somewhere they cant be seen.

 

 

Downstairs on the front bulkhead is an illuminated advert panel.

IMG_20190209_093942.jpg

This is powered by what I think is a fairly standard fluorescent tube.

IMG_20190209_094041.jpgIMG_20190209_094331.jpg

It was being temperamental, glowing slightly but not lighting properly. Oddly (to me) it glowed brighter when I put my hand on it. Anyway one of my Atlantean owning friends gave me another one (it's the same as their saloon lighting) and voila.

IMG_20190209_094427.jpg

I thought I'd taken a picture of the advert lit up but apparently not. But I thought I'd put it here again.

IMG_20190209_093942.jpg

I like it as it uses the Routemaster slogan 'London bus of the future' but is actually for one of their first Olympians, L1, L2 and L3. When evaluating the next generation of buses to succeed the Titan and Metrobus they ordered three Olympians, three Volvo Ailsas and three Dennis Dominators and ran them together on the 170 I think. The Olympian won, sort of, as it was the only one LT bought in any numbers but London Buses was broken up soon after and any standardisation policy went out the window.

 

A few hundred Routemasters also had offside illuminated adverts. Mine has one and it sort of works but is temperamental. It has four large and one small fluorescent tube. They come on whenever the engine is running but they don't really show in daylight. Here's one picture in the dark.

IMG_20190210_204750.jpg

That's three out of five. That's about normal but every time it's a different combination. The last time I saw it in the dark four worked and I was well chuffed.

 

They are controlled by these things behind the upstairs back seat.

IMG_20190209_094851.jpgIMG_20190209_094812.jpg

 

Oddly there is a lock on the seat back as if anybody is going to steal them.

 

The cab light is the same as the saloon bulbs. IMG_20190209_095222.jpgIMG_20190209_095204.jpg

 

 

And oddly the headlights and indicators are 12v and use standard car bulbs even though the sidelights and number plate light are 24v.

 

I hope that's of some interest to you.

 

These last three images should have been further up bit I forgot and don't seem to be able to do it now. But they are:

 

The wasp. IMG_20190209_092825.jpg

 

The bulbs repaired with duct tape.

IMG_20190209_093208.jpg

 

And the pointless lock on the back seat. IMG_20190209_095009.jpg

 

yaaaay lightbulb and Routemaster stuff 

 

thank you for posting that,

 

I found it very interesting, (I do have Somewhere... a Lightbulb guide for Routemasters from one of the RMOOA magazines i got back in the day)

 

tis very cool that you have some orignial LT ones, im actually not 100% sure on who made those

 

I had a couple from RML2760 (given to me by the conductor not stolen!) sadly 1 broke, and the second I got to replace that one, sadly met a very explosive end when I failed to realise my Variac (Variable voltage auto transformer) was set to 270V and not 24V....

 

I would love to get an orignial LT example (and a new modern one) for the collection at some point

 

from examining the features I want to say the LT examples where made by GEC in Shaw, Oldham, I am not sure who made the moderns, I would like to hope they where made by Victoria lighting (which was a small company setup to produce special types made by GEC, when GEC got bought out and the rest of the factory sent overseas), but I dont think they have made lightbulbs here since 2003

 

interesting that your head lights are 12V, when I was at Routemaster 60 in 2014, I handed over far too much cash to one of the stalls there selling bus parts for some Lightbulbs, (for both the collection and as a memento) and both types of Headlamp bulbs I got where 24V (but then again the saloon bulb he sold me was 60W! rather then 22W, which I know is wrong, and is quite naughty given the potential to heavily overload the wiring if you outfit an entire bus with them)

 

as for the ones that go dim, id try giving your lamp holder contacts a good polishing, as they are probably a bit oxidised after 50 years of use (and on the original lamps, giving the solder contacts on the base a light reflowing)

 

Cool see you have the inside illuminated advert as well as your rare external ones

 

do you have pictures of the old tube that failed the light? im curious if it was actually at EOL or if you just had a bad ground or such preventing it from starting properly

 

(the early electronic ballasts are designed for T12 tubes only and only put out a 200-300V OCV to strike the tube, so you need a good ground going along the tube to ensure they strike up properly, they actually made/make T12 tubes with a painted metal stripe along the tube connected to one end cap shell that you can ground incase you cant mount the tube near a grounded metal surface, you can actually see the metal toung that does this in your picture showing the lamp holder, but getting ahold of those special T12s is quite tricky these days as even regular T12 tubes get thin on the ground)

 

which is why the old tube glowed brighter when you touched it, because you where providing a grounding path helping the tube conduct electricity slightly easier

 

I have recorded such phenomena happening here

 

 

if your wondering, that Osram 20W T12 was made made by Philips at their Hamilton Factory up in Scotland in (date code is N0b8 ohhh errr     ) November 2000

 

(you can easily tell its a Philips made tube for Osram even without the date code or such, because of its classic Philips stepped end cap design)

 

heres some Warm white Sylvania tubes if your interested in stocking up on T12s for it  (Warm white too should match with the tungsten saloon lighting better) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322044243194

 

 

I wish I could pop round and get all 5 of the tubes in the advert working   (also very curious to see what tubes its rocking)

[egg]

Do you know about these in 'Lincolnshire' (no more precision on location), looks like the Model 12 has been picked up - but no news about the 70.

 

This is also from the 'Microcar world' Facebook group.

 

 

[dollywobbler]

Thanks.

 

Yes, whether it can be made fundamentally structurally sound is the thing. I'm sure getting a simple piece of toughened glass for the windscreen would be do-able. Getting a seal might be harder. I don't know.

 

I've got a million questions - I've got to get on to the invalid car register as well haven't I to see if I can get the DVLA to recognise it as an historic vehicle?

 

Anyway, mustn't jump too far ahead eh!

 

I gave up on the Invalid Carriage Register to be honest. No-one ever answers emails, apart from Stuart when he wanted to sell me a 'book' (pamphlet) he'd written on the history of the Invacar. It didn't tell me anything about Model 70s that I didn't already know by that point. Stuart passed the register to Simon McKeown, but he only seems to use it as a way of promoting art displays he's put on. I just wrote to the DVLA and after a bit of discussion via email, they sent me a V5C.

 

There is definitely a bit of a movement towards having an Invacar gathering at the National Microcar Rally. 

[egg]

Do you know about these in 'Lincolnshire' (no more precision on location), looks like the Model 12 has been picked up - but no news about the 70.

 

This is also from the 'Microcar world' Facebook group.

 

23318970_547155502290515_6499273008098957062_n.jpg

 

Sorry LBF - now had response to confirm all of these have sold.

[LightBulbFun]

alright good news (well not to the invacar being sold bit)

 

I asked to Join micro car world on FB and they let me in

 

defo some good invacar content for me to ogle over just gotta think how to form a good wanted post...

 

 

Sorry LBF - now had response to confirm all of these have sold.

 

aw, thanks for posting about them! I very much appreciate it, as you never know whats out there