invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

Just now, OldBlokeInACaravan said:

Come to Daddy! 😆  

haha  wonder if it might be worth using the Best offer option before you resort to biding?

did you get all the other Argsons in the end BTW?  

[OldBlokeInACaravan]

1 minute ago, LightBulbFun said:

haha  wonder if it might be worth using the Best offer option before you resort to biding?

did you get all the other Argsons in the end BTW?  

Yes thank you, finally last weekend.......not too bad at all! One good, one similar to above, one a box of bits and half a chassis!!!! And six vintage batteries..... You couldn't make it up..... 

[somewhatfoolish]

What do you do with the old batteries? Get Lincon or similar to refurbish or hide some lithium inside?

[OldBlokeInACaravan]

21 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

What do you do with the old batteries? Get Lincon or similar to refurbish or hide some lithium inside?

I'm going to check them over and see if they hold charge, if no joy, cut the bottom of the cases off and weigh the lead in and use the cases to cover the modern batteries for a period look....

[Crackers]

5 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114718672663

Cheap, Rusty but mostly complete Electric Stanley Argson anyone? going by the Registration its a Private Non ministry example  

I am kicking myself for actually replying to this thread, but at least I'm not directly discussing Inv*c*rs.

Anyway.

I spend most of my summer weekends playing at a private miniature railway, where one of the petrol-electric locomotives has the speed controller lifted out of one of those things, but with a shovel handle attached to make it shorter. Works well, to be fair. Probably coming off it soon though if we convert it to a battery loco.

[R1152]

6 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114718672663

Cheap, Rusty but mostly complete Electric Stanley Argson anyone? going by the Registration its a Private Non ministry example  

I've "added it to my watch list".

Oh dear.

[AdgeCutler]

Although as of yet I haven't had time to look at my  Mk12e in any depth I do see it before and after work as I have to tend to fowls that I keep at the place it currently resides. I have placed a spanner, ratchet/socket inside and each time I pass one or two panel bolts are removed, obviously the roof is the place to start and to get to two of the roof retaining bolts the Petrol tank has to be removed, that happened today. After a good tapping with the hammer I think it might be best it has a new tank! I'm also going to go back through photos on this and the other thread try and see photos that might reveal what type of filler cap I need.

Do you folk think I should perhaps start another thread rather than congesting LBFs? 

[egg]

1 hour ago, AdgeCutler said:

Do you folk think I should perhaps start another thread rather than congesting LBFs? 

You could use 'my' Mk12 thread so all MK12 stuff is in the same place?

[egg]

2 hours ago, R1152 said:

I've "added it to my watch list".

Oh dear.

Good, I'll unwatch it then . I'd only want it for another period of extended registration correspondance with the DVLA anyway, lol.

[Mrs6C]

10 minutes ago, egg said:

Good, I'll unwatch it then

How about taking on the Model 70 that Dez has shown on here?

[LightBulbFun]

6 hours ago, AdgeCutler said:

Although as of yet I haven't had time to look at my  Mk12e in any depth I do see it before and after work as I have to tend to fowls that I keep at the place it currently resides. I have placed a spanner, ratchet/socket inside and each time I pass one or two panel bolts are removed, obviously the roof is the place to start and to get to two of the roof retaining bolts the Petrol tank has to be removed, that happened today. After a good tapping with the hammer I think it might be best it has a new tank! I'm also going to go back through photos on this and the other thread try and see photos that might reveal what type of filler cap I need.

Do you folk think I should perhaps start another thread rather than congesting LBFs? 

im not too fussed about it, happy for you to post where you see fit  

glad to see work is commencing on the Mk12E  

 

5 hours ago, egg said:

Good, I'll unwatch it then . I'd only want it for another period of extended registration correspondance with the DVLA anyway, lol.

at least you would know what to do and how to fill the forms out correctly!

The Pembrokeshire registrations records are complete so regardless of if the DVLA know anything about it or not, it should be fully possible to re-registration and reclaim the registration no problem

[egg]

10 hours ago, Mrs6C said:

How about taking on the Model 70 that Dez has shown on here?

Luckily I have both a cash flow and storage limitation at the mo!

[EmperorPigeon]

I wouldn't pay anywhere close to £1200 for TPE 285S in that condition.   I've debated it inside my head (as we all do no doubt) and I couldn't justify that much. £600? Perhaps, but no doubt that would make the seller understandably balk and turn the air blue at my expense. Besides, collection would be expensive with the way things are etc and my gut feeling is no and to walk away from this one.

[barrett]

If it's from the same place as TWC, weren't they like £300 a pop including a spares car at the time? I wanted one at that price, but somebody basically bought the whole lot (or so I remember) and is now presumably dispersing them at a 400% mark up. Nowt wrong with that of course, but the vendor might be happy to take an offer - £600 would still double his money*

*apologies if I've misremembered the figures, it was quite a while ago...

[dollywobbler]

TWC and her field friends were £100 each. £1200 seems very steep because my gut feel is that roadworthy ones are only £3000-5000. Maybe I'm out of touch there, but hard to say when they change hands so infrequently.

 

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

TWC and her field friends were £100 each. £1200 seems very steep because my gut feel is that roadworthy ones are only £3000-5000. Maybe I'm out of touch there, but hard to say when they change hands so infrequently.

Tis strong money for here I agree, and I do wish It was cheaper as It would make finding a good home for it on here easier, With Bobdisk brownnova or Wuvvum for example 

but when KPL139P and TPE376S sold for £2000 it suddenly does not seem so bad! 

and before that SPE351R went for £3600 IIRC and that one while in better shape, it was not road worthy

the last Road worthy Model 70 that sold was ATW722L which went for £5000 back in early 2019,

so prices are sadly heading in the silly direction

(as I mentioned in the past I saw this coming from a mile away which is why I put so much effort into finding my own when I did, even if my life situation is not really setup for a car!)

 

the seller realises just how silly the prices are getting and does not want to sell it for that much, but at the same time he does not want to let it go for a song

its not up to me who decides the price, iv just been assigned to find a suitable buyer/good home for it, and for that I am thankful, he could of just put it on ebay and let the free market go nuts for it and have it vanish into the ether (which was his original plan but he decided against it thankfully)

but he saw my thread etc and decided to contact me about it  

 

as a side note you say they where £100 each, where they ever sold individually? from the original ebay listing I saw they where sold in one big lot

[bobdisk]

Prices of a lot of microcars are getting silly. A Bond Bug recently went at auction for £29000, yes twenty-nine thousand pounds. 

https://angliacarauctions.co.uk/classic/results/results-from-sat-27th-sun-28th-february/1973-bond-bug-700-es/

[Eyersey1234]

Hi @LightBulbFun this came up on my Faceache feed, thought you would be interested 

[AdgeCutler]

Another quick video of my Mk12 for those of you interested. Just my vague understanding of what I see basically.

 

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, Eyersey1234 said:

Hi @LightBulbFun this came up on my Faceache feed, thought you would be interested 

ah cool, nice to see GIG again  have wondered how the new owner was getting on with that one

still quite the mysterious car, wonder if he ever did apply for a V5 for it, I still dont see GIG4834 on the DVLA checker (only my 3rd party tools) so am curious

 

On 06/12/2020 at 16:22, LightBulbFun said:

Good news! GIG4834 is not 2 Model 70's as I had feared and indeed the GIG that Stuart knew about from years ago is the same GIG thats turned up recently

here are a couple pics of GIG from back when

 

and heres the pics I got recently

clearly the same car!  with this confirmed, I have informed the guy who has it what the registration number is, and hopefully in time we might see another Model 70 return to the road (and a NI one at that)

 

[Mrs6C]

9 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

ah cool, nice to see GIG again

Are you going to contact him via FB and draw him into the fold?

[LightBulbFun]

19 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

Another quick video of my Mk12 for those of you interested. Just my vague understanding of what I see basically.

 

ah awesome nice to see a detailed walk around of a Mk12 like that  

on the forward/reverse ignition front there would/should be 2 sets of points one for forward one for reverse 

indeed 41K is quite high for a Villers machine! a lot that survive are only in the 7K to low 20K's range IIRC

 

[LightBulbFun]

9 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Are you going to contact him via FB and draw him into the fold?

I still have his number from when he texted me for Invacar technical support

so I may well drop him a message again and see how he is getting on

[Mr Pastry]

Just now, LightBulbFun said:

ah awesome nice to see a detailed walk around of a Mk12 like that  

on the forward/reverse ignition front there would/should be 2 sets of points one for forward one for reverse 

indeed 41K is quite high for a Villers machine! a lot that survive are only in the 7K to low 20K's range IIRC

 

Fairly useless Villiers fact, but it is all part of the story.  In about 1967 when the Villiers invacar was being discontinued, Pride and Clark in Stockwell were selling off the surplus stock of new 11E engines at £29 each.  About 30 were bought by a firm in Wimbledon for fitting to miniature railway locomotives, where four speeds in each direction is just what you need, and 200c will pull a good load on rails.  I know this as I used to know one of their staff.   

[AdgeCutler]

26 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

ah awesome nice to see a detailed walk around of a Mk12 like that  

on the forward/reverse ignition front there would/should be 2 sets of points one for forward one for reverse 

indeed 41K is quite high for a Villers machine! a lot that survive are only in the 7K to low 20K's range IIRC

 

Glad to see it was appreciated Dez, I'll keep it up with posting videos if it is appreciated by some. I was very apprehensive about actually narrating a video.

[LightBulbFun]

9 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Fairly useless Villiers fact, but it is all part of the story.  In about 1967 when the Villiers invacar was being discontinued, Pride and Clark in Stockwell were selling off the surplus stock of new 11E engines at £29 each.  About 30 were bought by a firm in Wimbledon for fitting to miniature railway locomotives, where four speeds in each direction is just what you need, and 200c will pull a good load on rails.  I know this as I used to know one of their staff.   

hah thats very cool

although it was probably a bit later then 1967! the Last Villers Invacar Mk12E rolled off the production line in ~November 1971, with Invacar Model 70 production commencing in December 1971

and although AC Model 70 production commenced in June 1971, the Last Model 57 only rolled off the production line in October 1971!

for a short while, the AC Model 70 AC Model 57 and Invacar Mk12 where all in production at the same time! (and so was the AC Model 64 until 1972, but thats not a Villers machine)

(although at that point the Model 57 was a special case machine, the last mainstream Villers AC Machine rolled off the production line around March 1971 with the end of Model 67 production)

[Mrs6C]

10 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

I'll keep it up with posting videos if it is appreciated by some

Definitely! I can see from yours how the one I now have should look after it has been put back together.

Has @LightBulbFunpointed you at the Mk12E owner's manual and parts book yet?

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Definitely! I can see from yours how the one I now have should look after it has been put back together.

Has @LightBulbFunpointed you at the Mk12E owner's manual and parts book yet?

ah Whoops knew there was something I was forgetting, twas meaning to link to those the other day but got side tracked!

 

here we go, on Page 171  

On 10/12/2020 at 00:15, Zelandeth said:

All right, here's the documentation which came with the little tool roll a week or so back.  There's a better scan of the main user's manual here where I used a blocking sheet to reduce the bleed through of text from the next page as that annoys the heck out of me when reading scanned stuff.

This lot was MEANT to have been scanned at 600dpi...Except I'm an idiot.  I'd set the GREYSCALE TEXT dropdown menu to 600dpi...The colour scan one was still at the default!  Oops.

Invacar Mark 12E Instruction Manual 1969-70_revised.pdf 2.97 MB · 6 downloads

How to Keep Your Motor-Cycle Tyres Fit Brochure.pdf 2.19 MB · 4 downloads

How to Prevent a Flat Tyre Complimentary Brochure.pdf 933.66 kB · 3 downloads

Villiers Mark 9E 11E-4SFR 36A and 37A Two Stroke Engine Users Handbook.pdf 11.76 MB · 5 downloads

I'll come back to this in a few days and try to get high resolution scans...just irked I didn't spot it this evening.

 

[AdgeCutler]

Just now, Mrs6C said:

Definitely! I can see from yours how the one I now have should look after it has been put back together.

Has @LightBulbFunpointed you at the Mk12E owner's manual and parts book yet?

OK, will continue to film them and hopefully feel a little more comfortable with it each time? LBF has been very helpful and we are currently exchanging various PMs. He continues to give me hope!

[Mr Pastry]

11 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

although it was probably a bit later then 1967! 

I have just checked in the history of Cromar White Ltd and their prototype Villiers loco was indeed 1967, but they were in production 1970 to 1976.   Pride and Clarke would have been buying the surplus engines directly from Villers, so presumably the future plans would have been in place.

FWIW the loco on test pulled 1 ton 21/2 cwt, up a 1 in 50 gradient, and had a top speed of 18MPH which must have been scary on a 7 1/4" gauge track.