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LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, Chips got! :)


LightBulbFun

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one of the fun/nice things about when an Invacar or such is posted on social media, especially by a fairly well followed person or page, is you often get lots of comments of people reminiscing about their experience with them and with some of those comments, some nice period pictures

https://www.facebook.com/bclivingmuseum/posts/368011275364884

and there where a couple nice ones in this post

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and

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this second one is particularly notable in that, its a VERY Early Invacar Model 70, when I say early, I mean its the 9th car off the Invacar Model 70 production line!

making it the earliest Invacar Model 70 I have seen pictured to date, its also nice to have because, while I had discovered the PPU-K block myself via my DVLA bashing (on Page 70 fittingly enough :)I had never had any actual photos of a PPU-K car so its nice to have one at long last!

(the block is PPU521K-PPU600K, you will note that it is only 80 cars big, I suspect that PPU501K to PPU520K where the final 20 Invacar Mk12's, something I suspect looking at the Invacar Mk12 chassis number allocations as theres a final 20 Mk12s from xx481-xx500 I cant find! but I have never been able to verify this for sure since nothing from that range is DVLA live sadly, but when I visit the Essex records ill be checking it out for sure :) )

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10 hours ago, AdgeCutler said:

I’ve just cut open the heat exchanger to see how it is put together and materials needed to reproduce. It’s now happily smouldering away the years of carbon deposits and the steel needed for the job has been ordered.

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its quite interesting to see inside one of these at long last! im hoping someone will slice open a Model 70 one at some point, I know those are somewhat sought after so it would be good to find out how they are put together and if they are reproducible or not :) 

6 hours ago, AdgeCutler said:

On arriving home after work I found Brian’s new shoes had arrived. I hate fitting tyres but couldn’t resist getting one on.

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its fitting you should post one of Brians wheels with Hubcap like that, as one of the side projects I have been looking at pictures over, is the 12 inch Ministry Wheel hubcap

see what you have there is the Standard hubcap fitted to AFAIK, All Invacar Mk12's and AC and Invacar Model 70's and possibly most Model 67's

but I had noticed that Early Metal Acedes had a different type of hubcap fitted with a pointy profile instead of a pressed in middle 

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which you can see in these pictures here,  I always thought these hubcaps where something only fitted to earlier Metal AC Acedes, but looking at my pictures shows them to actually be fitted to most if not all Metal Acedes, and even all the way up until at least the earliest Model 67's even

image (10).png

heres a picture of RPA509E, part of the very First AC Model 67 block, and you noticed its got the same hubcaps, I just never noticed until I looked closely, because the reflectiveness makes it hard to see the fine lines!

and heres a couple example of later metal Acedes with the pointy hub caps fitted

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some of which which where sometimes body coloured as well 

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and heres an example of an Earlier Invacar with the standard dished hubcap, which leads me to believe that the dished in hub cap was the standard design and that AC did their own thing

PEV627D.jpg

heres an AC Acedes Mk14 or Mk14A Model 67 with the standard not pointy hubcap, so it looks like AC may of switched pretty quickly into the Model 67's production run

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but the thing is these final pictures are all current day photos, who knows if these hubcaps where original to the car or if they wore a different style in period?

so more research is needed!

 just one of those interesting things, Im not sure when exactly AC switched over to the Invacar style of hubcap, but its interesting that there where 2 styles in the first place!

sometimes its the small details that keep you on your toes :) 

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32 minutes ago, Crackers said:

I wasn't aware AC also made gatling guns.

they didn't* because Brian is an Invacar Mk12E, the only thing AC about it is the Parallelogram front suspension :) 

although to be pedantic to myself, the Heat exchanger of this type was a standardised Ministry part common to all Villiers machines of this specification (including AC types) but it would of been manufactured by an external company and supplied in, so its not an Invacar part either!

(*AFAIK! AC made everything from Golf bags to Rail buses so who actually knows!) 

AC did make Trailers during the war, which may of been used for guns of some kind? but I have not been able to find much on them sadly 

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12 minutes ago, Crackers said:

1337104560_jokelecture.jpg.d6c947931f5e1ec28f24181fd66fbf03.jpg

Yeah yeah I know bite me! but I just couldn't help myself, especially as this my thread and I cant let something like that slide! (at least you didn't say AC invacar which is like saying "its a Rover Ford!")

it literally says in the thread title "AdgeCutlers Invacar Mk12" like come on man LOL

plus I have been looking for an excuse to post about those AC Trailers for a while now and you gave me the perfect opening :) 

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On 4/30/2022 at 8:30 PM, LightBulbFun said:

indeed! I very much appreciate the literal blood sweat and tears you went through just so I could oggle at its chassis plate! :) 

its interesting to see how much more buried it is since whenever the bellow photo was taken

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its still one I find very interesting, given how its on its own, normally where you find 1 Invacar you would find many more, since they where usually disposed off in lots to a contracted yard

It is a bit of an odd one. The combination of only being nine years old, having its controls removed and being on its own suggests this was not a routine planned withdrawal. Looks like it caught fire, the local repairer deemed it beyond repair, transplanted its controls into another and then got this chap to take away the remains. I wonder what controls it had.

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36 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

It is a bit of an odd one. The combination of only being nine years old, having its controls removed and being on its own suggests this was not a routine planned withdrawal. Looks like it caught fire, the local repairer deemed it beyond repair, transplanted its controls into another and then got this chap to take away the remains. I wonder what controls it had.

yeah thats exactly what my thought is, as to what happened to it, but even an Approved repairer would have a normally setup disposal system, so you would have expected even an unplanned withdrawal to still go to that yard with all the other cars, much like how @Mrs6C's Mk12 came to survive (where the scrap yard was disposing of Invacars for a time and then XWC came in a while later after the "main batch" and so was just stashed to one side rather then broken up)

I almost wonder if, this Model 70 never made it back to the Approved repairs yard,  in that it caught fire and it was just taken straight from the roadside to this dumping ground of cars, back then the Ministry was a lot more lose over their grip on things, so the approved repairer could of said "yeah it caught fire so I just had the roadside recovery man dispose of it as he saw fit" hence it ending up in a non contracted yard, I also did wonder if perhaps it was stolen and joy ridden and then an attempt made to burn it out? but neither of these would explain the missing controls (unless the approved repair went out of their way, to the dumping ground to salvage them after the fact)

and as mentioned previously its notable in that it does not have a scrapped marker against it,

 

so as you say most odd! I sadly dont have any inside pictures to look for clues as to what it may of been fitted with

often times even with controls removed or reconfigured, there will be witness marks, of what was once there, to give us some clues, like the screw holes and missing sections of floor rubber in REV from when she was some sort of foot control machine (of which Im still curious about, since said witness marks dont line up with any normal foot pedal brackets  so I do wonder if by foot control, they meant it in the most literal sense that she had no hand controls at all, but sadly other than who all her keepers where, I have little in the way of history for REV, for example I dont have any period photos sadly)

or the remaining foot pedal brackets in one of the Handle bar cars found in the TWC/TPA Field (which I wonder was converted because of a change in user, or if because the user had a disability that got worse over time so went from being able to use their feet to being unable to so had the pedals removed?)

 

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The fire damage looks localised to the fuel pump side of the engine bay, where of course, the pipes were held on more by hope than anything. I reckon someone must have put the fire out before it really took hold though.

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4 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

The fire damage looks localised to the fuel pump side of the engine bay, where of course, the pipes were held on more by hope than anything. I reckon someone must have put the fire out before it really took hold though.

interesting! I figured it was a fuel related fire as their aint much else to catch fire in a Model 70!, guess the standard equipment fire extinguisher came in handy then! and I imagine once the engine was shut off, it would of stopped the fuel pump and literally run out of fuel to burn, what im surprised about is that the fibreglass itself did not just go up, I have seen a few Reliants burn completely to the ground, but from what I have seen, Model 70's are surprisingly fire resistant for what they are made of! (or the fire extinguisher they came with was very effective!)

there are supposed to be fuel clips there, it even states so in the workshop manual, but it seems like they where lost over time by people working on the cars being lazy about it

image.thumb.png.29bbc98a7cedc52a22960be33daa1563.png

so thats no fault of the Model 70, in the same way that in any car, leaving off the fuel hose clips is asking for similar trouble!

 

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18 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Looking good, when you starting production of Model 70 ones?

Perhaps I'll consider it when I can find a source of disposable time! As soon as Brian is on the road my spare time is going to be invested in the next project which got put on hold three years back. It's a lovely riveted steam boiler which was left to me by my Dad and a dear friend of his, sadly neither are with us now. The boiler is a relatively small unit and has already been stripped down prior to Brians arrival, new tubes are currently on order.

To the left of the boiler is a small steam engine powered genset which the boiler will be powering.

64696016_10211849610355673_4577719123538083840_n.jpg

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Little odds and sods are still being tended to during my lunch breaks at work (more important than eating). This week the drive shaft has been stripped and cleaned, the u js were unused but I damaged a seal when removing them for cleaning and inspection. Replacements are on order and they are easy to source as they were used on several Triumph and Morris vehicles among others. The wheel bearings and seals are all new components too, Brian must have been in for a service when he was secreted in that hedgerow. The service engineer never did finish the job and there was not one brake shoe fitted, or perhaps they were removed to avoid seizure when it was realised the little car would remain skulking in a hedge for a long time?

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50 minutes ago, Harriytait said:

Does anyone know what brake shoes and cylinders I need to order for a Model 70 with 10" wheels please?

IMG_20220419_175454.jpg

the wheel cylinders are Girling 64673476

and im PRETTY sure that GWC1208 are suitable equivalent 

(twas what I had researched to be compatible with the above girling part No)

although I have not personally actually tried, this exact set https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371257751842 Is what I was planning on ordering to do REV's brakes from before I knew she was going Red5's way 

brake shoes are Girling GBB45774CF which are the same as Spitfire Mk1-4 rear brake shoes IIRC and are readily available everywhere AFAIK!

(as an aside, brake components are the same on 12 and 10 inch wheeled cars, so if you find yourself with bits from a 12 inch car you can still use those :)

hope this helps :) 

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23 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

A lot of work involved in these bloomin things but it’s done now and tested for air tightness.

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I'm in awe of the level of detail you're going into with the fabrication of various NLA parts for your Invacar along with your general attitude towards making the resto top notch. 

Just brilliant 😎.

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