invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[dollywobbler]

That porthole is such a good idea. Gets rid of an appalling blind spot.

[barrett]

Sorry about quality, but have we seen this one before?

 

[kirton]

What is the green car at the left of Barrett's photo?

[Mr Pastry]

50 minutes ago, kirton said:

What is the green car at the left of Barrett's photo?

Morris or Wolseley 10?

[LightBulbFun]

5 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

That porthole is such a good idea. Gets rid of an appalling blind spot.

I find it interesting that you have such visibility/blind spot issues in TWC

as thats not an issue I have heard described with the Model 70 before so I wonder whats at play

I know Zel has not mentioned such issues with TPA, and admittedly while I have sadly not had a chance to drive REV as much as you have driven TWC, I can say that from the brief time I did that visibility was not an issue

 

so much so that when I did take her to the chippy for the first time, and I went to look over my shoulder as I made my way through central london traffic, it was literally shocking just how much I could see!

maybe its because im used to modern driving school hatch backs,

but in REV I was genuinely startled when I looked over my shoulder and I could actually clearly see exactly what was behind and coming up alongside me

(dont you just love it when your coming up to a set of red traffic lights and a large transit van decides now would be a good time to overtake and cut in front LOL)

such clear visibility which I never had in the 6 driving school cars, In those id look over my shoulder and all id see is pillars for the most part LOL

so to actually be to see so clearly what was around me was genuinely startling, it was like going to look through one of those "who's there" eye glasses you find embedded in front doors, but suddenly its been replaced with a full sized window and you can see everything LOL

 

have you thought about adjusting the seating position in TWC to see if that helps any? I know when you fitted the head liner your dropped the seat down a peg IIRC

and it may also be worth looking at the seat (and handle bar) mechanism to see if it can be adjusted forward and aft as well?

(and yeah as amusing/funky looking the port holes are I certainly dont want to see them on anymore Model 70's! and those wheel trims as well really need to go LOL)

 

2 hours ago, barrett said:

Sorry about quality, but have we seen this one before?

 

No not a photo I have seen before  looks like an AC Acedes Mk9 or earlier, or equivalent Model 64  

[Weird Car]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I find it interesting that you have such visibility/blind spot issues in TWC

as thats not an issue I have heard described with the Model 70 before so I wonder whats at play

I know Zel has not mentioned such issues with TPA, and admittedly while I have sadly not had a chance to drive REV as much as you have driven TWC, I can say that from the brief time I did that visibility was not an issue

 

so much so that when I did take her to the chippy for the first time, and I went to look over my shoulder as I made my way through central london traffic, it was literally shocking just how much I could see!

maybe its because im used to modern driving school hatch backs,

but in REV I was genuinely startled when I looked over my shoulder and I could actually clearly see exactly what was behind and coming up alongside me

(dont you just love it when your coming up to a set of red traffic lights and a large transit van decides now would be a good time to overtake and cut in front LOL)

such clear visibility which I never had in the 6 driving school cars, In those id look over my shoulder and all id see is pillars for the most part LOL

so to actually be to see so clearly what was around me was genuinely startling, it was like going to look through one of those "who's there" eye glasses you find embedded in front doors, but suddenly its been replaced with a full sized window and you can see everything LOL

 

have you thought about adjusting the seating position in TWC to see if that helps any? I know when you fitted the head liner your dropped the seat down a peg IIRC

and it may also be worth looking at the seat (and handle bar) mechanism to see if it can be adjusted forward and aft as well?

(and yeah as amusing/funky looking the port holes are I certainly dont want to see them on anymore Model 70's! and those wheel trims as well really need to go LOL)

 

No not a photo I have seen before  looks like an AC Acedes Mk9 or earlier, or equivalent Model 64  

I never had an issue with VJN always had troubles with the wing mirror though, it was absolutely useless 

[Zelandeth]

Visibility isn't something I've ever really noticed as a problem.  Only provisio is that I do struggle to see to reverse straight until I've taken off the seat belt.

I know for a fact that the seating position in TPA is a good bit higher and further forward than standard though so reckon that could play quite a part.  

Yes, the wing mirror is pretty damned useless though.  Especially as it seems to get whacked by passers by every other time I park the car anywhere so winds up pointing in completely the wrong direction again.

I do like the idea of a set and forget throttle...the twist grip really is the one thing I got tired of in a hurry when out on a longer run in TPA.  By the time I did the run to Birmingham my right wrist was properly bloody sore.  

I know some people seem to think it's a terrifying idea...but I really can't see why.  Your hand isn't ever going to be more than a few millimetres away from it.  In an emergency the brakes are way, way more powerful than the engine anyway.

[barrett]

This must be somebody you know??? At least three (maybe four) in a garden in Kent. Reg plate annoyingly blurred.

[LightBulbFun]

22 hours ago, Harriytait said:

I never had an issue with VJN always had troubles with the wing mirror though, it was absolutely useless 

 

18 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Visibility isn't something I've ever really noticed as a problem.  Only provisio is that I do struggle to see to reverse straight until I've taken off the seat belt.

I know for a fact that the seating position in TPA is a good bit higher and further forward than standard though so reckon that could play quite a part.  

Yes, the wing mirror is pretty damned useless though.  Especially as it seems to get whacked by passers by every other time I park the car anywhere so winds up pointing in completely the wrong direction again.

I do like the idea of a set and forget throttle...the twist grip really is the one thing I got tired of in a hurry when out on a longer run in TPA.  By the time I did the run to Birmingham my right wrist was properly bloody sore.  

I know some people seem to think it's a terrifying idea...but I really can't see why.  Your hand isn't ever going to be more than a few millimetres away from it.  In an emergency the brakes are way, way more powerful than the engine anyway.

once @bobdisk kindly helped me setup the mirrors in REV,  (since unless your Mr Tickle you cant exactly adjust them while seated LOL) I found them to be perfectly adequate, nothing spectacular, but no worse then any modern I have driven

admittedly I understand the issue is not so much static visibility but vibrations at higher speed right? and I sadly cant comment on that yet!

@Zelandeth have you thought about getting one of those snap on thumb thingies that @dollywobbler has on his twist grip perhaps that might help?

I also seem to recall you can get fancier twist grips that have an ability to lock them in place which would serve the same function of allowing you to rest your hand as you cruise down the motorway  

13 hours ago, barrett said:

This must be somebody you know??? At least three (maybe four) in a garden in Kent. Reg plate annoyingly blurred.

yep! I know exactly who owns that lot  @st185cs you have been papped again!

the Model 70 with the obscured plate is MHJ22P (like a blurred number plate is going to stop me from knowing a known survivor when I see one!) 

and the rest of the Model 70's are the Sussex Field find cars, the same place TWC and TPA came from

(and the NOS body shell from Barry is also peaking into shot)

as alluded to above its not the first time they have been papped! where did this lot of photos originate from?  

[JakeT]

Just bought a model Invacar from that there Wobbler now they have stock again. I’m strangely excited to receive it.

 

My uncle used to have an Invacar and loved it. Enabled him to get to work and live a good life as he was wheelchair bound a lot of the time. He did call it a s******wagon, in more of an affectionate way, such was his sense of humour. He also loved being able to take it to Nottingham Forest games and sit at the front.

 

Like most, he never did have a driving license, and kept it for years. When it went, he was allowed a Motability car, but my grandparents had it as they were his primary source of transport from 1999-2006 when he passed.

[beko1987]

17 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Visibility isn't something I've ever really noticed as a problem.  Only provisio is that I do struggle to see to reverse straight until I've taken off the seat belt.

I know for a fact that the seating position in TPA is a good bit higher and further forward than standard though so reckon that could play quite a part.  

Yes, the wing mirror is pretty damned useless though.  Especially as it seems to get whacked by passers by every other time I park the car anywhere so winds up pointing in completely the wrong direction again.

I do like the idea of a set and forget throttle...the twist grip really is the one thing I got tired of in a hurry when out on a longer run in TPA.  By the time I did the run to Birmingham my right wrist was properly bloody sore.  

I know some people seem to think it's a terrifying idea...but I really can't see why.  Your hand isn't ever going to be more than a few millimetres away from it.  In an emergency the brakes are way, way more powerful than the engine anyway.

You could go full 21st century and have it all controlled by an app on your phone! 

 

"Bluetooth connection lost..." 

[LightBulbFun]

5 hours ago, JakeT said:

Just bought a model Invacar from that there Wobbler now they have stock again. I’m strangely excited to receive it.

 

My uncle used to have an Invacar and loved it. Enabled him to get to work and live a good life as he was wheelchair bound a lot of the time. He did call it a s******wagon, in more of an affectionate way, such was his sense of humour. He also loved being able to take it to Nottingham Forest games and sit at the front.

 

Like most, he never did have a driving license, and kept it for years. When it went, he was allowed a Motability car, but my grandparents had it as they were his primary source of transport from 1999-2006 when he passed.

always awesome to hear of a good Invacar story  as you say most people loved their Invacars and where very-thankful for the freedom they gave! and im glad to hear that was the same for your uncle  

indeed, as much as people had derogatory names for Invacar back in the day, from what I have heard/read about a lot of invalid vehicle users, themselves called their machines such as well!, it was just the spoken language of the day!

 

however, contrary to popular belief  your uncle would more then likely have had a driving licence and taken a driving test, and in-fact disabled people where some of the first people required to take a driving test to get a licence, the requirement for disabled people being introduced in 1930, but a driving test for able bodied people was not a requirement until 1935!

however your Uncle would of more then likely held a Class J invalid carriage licence, which in Modern parlance is B1 (invalid carriages only), so he would of had to have taken fresh lessons and a new test for his Motability car still

heres a nice recount of what it was like to be issued a Model 70 for the first time back in the day  

and its fun to note that, to this day the DVSA still has guidance to driving examiners on how to do/give an invalid carriage test!

I really wonder when the last time someone actually took an invalid carriage test! might be one for a FOI request sometime!

 

 

also while digging the above back up, it got me wondering, perhaps one @Datsuncog might be able to answer, but where freshly licensed invalid vehicle users, burdened by R plates in Northern Ireland or not?

the invalid carriage restriction is mentioned on NI's government website... 

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/information-codes-your-driving-licence

(amusing abbreviated to "INV CAR"  )

as a side note restriction code 50/51 is an interesting one, I wonder what would cause that to be applied! 

looking at it online it only mentions R plates as being a restriction for Motor car and Motor cycle users

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/motor-vehicle-documentation-learner-and-restricted-driver-requirements

so I guess an R plate would not of been a requirement on an invalid carriage licence holder? thats a fun amusing thought your stuck bumbling along at 45Mph in your Austin Metro while your fellow classmate hurtles on past in his Model 70 doing 70 LOL

although here mentions any vehicle? so perhaps they where restricted?

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1998/apr/07/road-traffic-new-driversnorthern-ireland#:~:text=Since 1968%2C the law in,maximum speed of 45 mph.

again one I pitch to you @Datsuncog  

[JakeT]

That’s interesting to know, thanks LBF.

 

He never drove any of his motability cars, instead he was driven. I’ll speak to my grandfather though, as he was a driving instructor, and taught just about everyone in the family to drive.

[DVee8]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265825938480?hash=item3de475ec30%3Ag%3AU0UAAOSw-eNi9YMB&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoF392kpoyE%2B88RbO5SGoTZ3UPOzrr%2BM66a%2BWguqdg6gdvu2DKdw2KTpRZcGDZgFZtxQ9QPibAJxjJ2H7ggcnWwF1DbLFYwkaOIjg6CduK1UJwHex2MM3X3vOr695N0B036KM5RjObVW%2FRA8sMquFF5wXVpqiJqIJwmh2Kdlw6Vg4g%2F1c%2BymU7wVw%2BU0i2cHU3T9SuI53RL61OfTLBnwf%2FB8%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6qEybjVYA&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&siteid=3&campid=5338788797&customid&toolid=10001&mkevt=1&fbclid=IwAR2RmqJ6cY_TS1d_TdBPBj1ACVmbHxaW4QI1RnpIS2nnc13KvQLYe0Lr3B8

[RichardK]

I mean, I read the ad and despair at the basic intelligence (measured by literacy and ability to read info and type say, the name of an engine correctly) of people, then think I might be being elitist... then see the unredacted V5 with VIN etc. and go "nope, some people really do not engage brain".

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, RichardK said:

I mean, I read the ad and despair at the basic intelligence (measured by literacy and ability to read info and type say, the name of an engine correctly) of people, then think I might be being elitist... then see the unredacted V5 with VIN etc. and go "nope, some people really do not engage brain".

well I have seen worse, at least the 11 digit number is not proudly on display as well LOL

which I have seen a fair few times in my time on the internet, most recently with those tractor V5's I was studying

to the surprise of no one, when I went and checked their records with ye faithful DVLA's 1st party checker, several already had recent V5's issued

which obviously nullifies the V5 being flogged on ebay, so someone will of been in for a rude awakening when they win the auction LOL

 

[Datsuncog]

On 8/16/2022 at 2:25 PM, LightBulbFun said:

also while digging the above back up, it got me wondering, perhaps one @Datsuncog might be able to answer, but where freshly licensed invalid vehicle users, burdened by R plates in Northern Ireland or not?

the invalid carriage restriction is mentioned on NI's government website... 

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/information-codes-your-driving-licence

(amusing abbreviated to "INV CAR"  )

as a side note restriction code 50/51 is an interesting one, I wonder what would cause that to be applied! 

looking at it online it only mentions R plates as being a restriction for Motor car and Motor cycle users

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/motor-vehicle-documentation-learner-and-restricted-driver-requirements

so I guess an R plate would not of been a requirement on an invalid carriage licence holder? thats a fun amusing thought your stuck bumbling along at 45Mph in your Austin Metro while your fellow classmate hurtles on past in his Model 70 doing 70 LOL

although here mentions any vehicle? so perhaps they where restricted?

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1998/apr/07/road-traffic-new-driversnorthern-ireland#:~:text=Since 1968%2C the law in,maximum speed of 45 mph.

again one I pitch to you @Datsuncog  

Hmm, interesting one... I don't have a definitive answer, but I'd guess you wouldn't have had to display R-plates for twelve months after passing an invalid carriage driving test; as far as I can tell it was/ is a requirement for anyone in Northern Ireland (and the Isle of Man) moving from a provisional licence onto a full licence, and as an invalid carriage licence was a special type of licence (a bit like the armed forces licence that allows 16yr olds to drive trucks) which I don't believe required the holding of a provisional licence in advance, then I don't think R-plates would have been applicable.

BUT - I'm not 100% sure exactly when R-plates were introduced in NI.

I believe it was brought in during the late 1970s, as a 'temporary trial' to evaluate a system of restricting new drivers to a lower speed limit prior to rolling it out across the rest of the UK. Rather like the 70mph motorway speed limit, even after a few years no significant benefit could be measured but government ministers of the day decided to keep it in place anyway.

So it's possible that the R-plate system was coming in just as invalid carriages were being phased out for new users around the same time anyway, with young people becoming eligible for the scheme instead offered adapted Minis or similar - which I think would have warranted having R-plates on display for a year after passing a driving test.

Even if that wasn't the case, I'd say that only a very small number of invalid carriages would have ever worn 'Rs', as there couldn't have been much overlap between the two.

Unfortunately I don't have access to the Legislation Team folders in work anymore, but if the opportunity arises I'll see if I can find out more...

[LightBulbFun]

53 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

Hmm, interesting one... I don't have a definitive answer, but I'd guess you wouldn't have had to display R-plates for twelve months after passing an invalid carriage driving test; as far as I can tell it was/ is a requirement for anyone in Northern Ireland (and the Isle of Man) moving from a provisional licence onto a full licence, and as an invalid carriage licence was a special type of licence (a bit like the armed forces licence that allows 16yr olds to drive trucks) which I don't believe required the holding of a provisional licence in advance, then I don't think R-plates would have been applicable.

BUT - I'm not 100% sure exactly when R-plates were introduced in NI.

I believe it was brought in during the late 1970s, as a 'temporary trial' to evaluate a system of restricting new drivers to a lower speed limit prior to rolling it out across the rest of the UK. Rather like the 70mph motorway speed limit, even after a few years no significant benefit could be measured but government ministers of the day decided to keep it in place anyway.

So it's possible that the R-plate system was coming in just as invalid carriages were being phased out for new users around the same time anyway, with young people becoming eligible for the scheme instead offered adapted Minis or similar - which I think would have warranted having R-plates on display for a year after passing a driving test.

Even if that wasn't the case, I'd say that only a very small number of invalid carriages would have ever worn 'Rs', as there couldn't have been much overlap between the two.

Unfortunately I don't have access to the Legislation Team folders in work anymore, but if the opportunity arises I'll see if I can find out more...

I THINK that you did get a provisional licence before you got your full invalid carriage licence 

I know for a fact, you could drive an invalid vehicle on L plates (possibly still can?) and that this was very much done in period, theres plenty of historical photos that show that as well as the written account above

so I would assume that with the L plates you also would of had a provisional licence? (because to drive any vehicle on L plates you still at least need a provisional for that vehicle type)

AFAIK an invalid vehicle licence, was not a special licence like an armed forces licence, it was just a category on a standard licence,

Category J is/was your invalid carriage entitlement  in the same way your tracked vehicle entitlement is Category H

https://www.gov.uk/old-driving-licence-categories

so a invalid vehicle user would have a standard Licence, but the only "activated" category on it would be Category J since thats what they passed their driving test in

 

 

so going back to the R plates interesting that you think they came in the Late 1970's that was my thought too,

but as you say I remember reading them first coming on a trial basis along with the 70Mph speed limit in the mid-late 1960's and while they where dropped here in England they managed to cling on in Northern Ireland

so I did some digging, and although I was not able to find much, the Hansard report, does seem to indicate that R plates where introduced in 1968, which would of been well within the time period, the invalid vehicle service was issuing vehicles to new users

 

so if the 1968 date is accurate? for the introduction of R plates, then there would have very much been an overlap

and thus goes back to the question of did invalid vehicle users need to wear R plates?

 

I guess the question I should be asking @Datsuncog is who exactly was/is required to wear an R plate?  I know motor car and motorcycle users are required to wear them, but is anyone else?

for example if your a farming 17 year old and get your provisional Tractor licence, https://www.gov.uk/learning-to-drive-a-tractor-or-specialist-vehicle/practising-driving-a-tractor-or-specialist-vehicle

and take a Tractor test for example would you then need to wear R plates on your Messy 35?

that might give us some clues to as if Invalid vehicle users where burdened by them or not  

 

[Eyersey1234]

@LightBulbFun I've just had this come up on my Facebook feed, don't know if you have this one recorded 

[High Jetter]

37 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

@LightBulbFun I've just had this come up on my Facebook feed, don't know if you have this one recorded 

Isn't that the transistor car?

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Eyersey1234 said:

@LightBulbFun I've just had this come up on my Facebook feed, don't know if you have this one recorded 

Yeah thats one very well known as that picture is one of the first rights free Model 70 pictures you come across when you search "invacar"

which makes it all the more amusing as it often gets used in write ups/posts where they say that they where banned and/or never sold to an individual

because NPN924P is one of the very few examples of a Model 70 that was sold privately  and a subtle clue to that is note its non Surrey registration mark

(NPN924P especially flies under the radar because PA to PM of that time period where all Surrey registration marks but PN is not)

sadly I dont know who has it these days (I have an idea but nothing concrete)

1 hour ago, High Jetter said:

Isn't that the transistor car?

hah yeah I noted that all the way back on Page 12 when I first posted about the car 

 

[High Jetter]

5 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

Yeah thats one very well known as that picture is one of the first rights free Model 70 pictures you come across when you search "invacar"

which makes it all the more amusing as it often gets used in write ups/posts where they say that they where banned and/or never sold to an individual

because NPN924P is one of the very few examples of a Model 70 that was sold privately  and a subtle clue to that is note its non Surrey registration mark

(NPN924P especially flies under the radar because PA to PM of that time period where all Surrey registration marks but PN is not)

sadly I dont know who has it these days (I have an idea but nothing concrete)

hah yeah I noted that all the way back on Page 12 when I first posted about the car 

 

It's ages since I trawled that deep. Is there a PNP plate?

[warren t claim]

[500tops]

Someone got a 'bargain'...

 

[LightBulbFun]

On 21/08/2022 at 23:37, warren t claim said:

Ooh thats not a photo I have seen before! its hard to make out, but I think thats an Invacar Model 70 from the HAR-N block  

if you happen to come across a higher res version it would be good to have as always  

18 hours ago, 500tops said:

Someone got a 'bargain'...

 

Yeah! It will be very interesting to see if the winning bidder is actually serious about it or just messing about!  

On 13/08/2022 at 13:44, LightBulbFun said:

(also has an unusual fuel gauge!)

as well as the unsual fuel gauge, with thanks to heads up from @Zelandeth I noticed the speedo is also of a non normal type, and that only goes up to 70 Mph (all revisions of Model 70 have speedo's that clock to at least 80)

it seems to match with fuel gauge, but neither items are normal Model 70 ones!

 

I have to wonder, is this a 1980's replacement part supplied by the ministry for pre-face lift Model 70's

or is this someone trying to make and do mend without parts support from after the machine exited ministry service?

 

 

this is what a pre face lift Model 70 gauge set should look like

 

I have asked the seller for a close up of the gauge set, it will be interesting to see how many TPM's the speedo is rated for, a Model 70 one is 1504

[LightBulbFun]

12 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I have asked the seller for a close up of the gauge set, it will be interesting to see how many TPM's the speedo is rated for, a Model 70 one is 1504

right on cue  

first up is the fuel gauge, which notably has "AC" on the bottom, dont know if thats a maker or to say "this is for AC Cars"

and heres the odd speedo, only 1040 turns per minute, so not a Model 70 item thats for sure! I have asked if it actually works/reads accurate, I do wonder how old it is, since it got 30 highlighted, and that was something you normally only saw back when the 30Mph speed limit in built up areas was the UK's only speed limit

 

for reference here is a Normal pre Face lift Model 70 speedo 

and post facelift 

[Mrs6C]

10 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

heres the odd speedo, only 1040 turns per minute, so not a Model 70 item thats for sure!

Appears that the Smiths MA 42871 was for the Austin 7 and early Land Rovers. There's one on ebay here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144689917273

 

[Mrs6C]

The  fuel gauge seems to be a 2" unit used for David Brown and Massey Ferguson tractors, so may not be anything to do with AC Cars...
https://www.apukonline.com/20473-fuel-gauge-12v.html

 

[LightBulbFun]

17 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Appears that the Smiths MA 42871 was for the Austin 7 and early Land Rovers. There's one on ebay here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144689917273

 

 

6 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

The  fuel gauge seems to be a 2" unit used for David Brown and Massey Ferguson tractors, so may not be anything to do with AC Cars...
https://www.apukonline.com/20473-fuel-gauge-12v.html

 

very interesting! very much sounds like someones had to make and do mend with whatever they have on hand

its worth noting the Smiths speedo in your link is 1600 TPM so not 100% the same, but very much the same body/family so thats very interesting to see!

 

[Mrs6C]

9 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

its worth noting the Smiths speedo in your link is 1600 TPM so not 100% the same, but very much the same body/family so thats very interesting to see!

There were 1000, 1040 and 1080 TPM variations as well, for vehicles like the Morris 8 and differents types of Austin 7 like Ruby and Nippy.