invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Weird Car]

Some pictures sent to me from a local show last week.

Hopefully taking her to work for the first time tomorrow to see how she handles a 50mph road.

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, Harriytait said:

Some pictures sent to me from a local show last week.

Hopefully taking her to work for the first time tomorrow to see how she handles a 50mph road.

Awesome! I had noticed you had been taking her to shows recently as she had been popping up across the social medias

if all is well (mainly the CVT pulleys) she should do the 50Mph road no problem, from what I have been told and seen a Model 70 in good health will happily cruise at 60Mph and will do 70Mph and beyond if asked as well, which often completely and utterly breaks people, because they dont expect to see a Invacar bombing past them at such speeds!

its so much fun, because people have such prejudice about these cars, they just cant handle it LOL

the only thing I will say is make sure you are comfortable with the controls and how she handles, I dont think any car can go lock to lock quicker than a Model 70 and doing that at 50Mph because something made you jump would probably not end well LOL

(one of the fun parts about letting people drive REV at the FoD was watching them go about 15ft then try turn and massively overcorrect then get a  wobble on as they suddenly realise the steering is way sharper then they where expecting ) 

 

I sure hope that when someone is finally able to do a top speed run, that there is someone suitably down the road/drag strip/runway with a camera to record it because a Model 70 wizzing past at 80Mph must look hilarious from a bystanders POV

[LightBulbFun]

speaking of Invalid 3 wheelers, @adam1db has just managed to rescue this!

thats right ( @barrett) its Another Harding Consort! out of a supposed 12 made, this is now number 9 or 10 known to still survive! (Depending if the one Spotted in Guernsey museum 1978 is still about or not)

either they made more then 12 (which Stuart is strongly starting to suspect must be the case, and I have to wonder myself if perhaps when Stuart was told only 12 where made, that maybe the guy telling stuart, thought that stuart was asking about only Petrol or only electric machines? not realising that stuart was asking about all machines, but who knows!)

or Harding Consorts have the highest survival ratio to machines made out of any invalid vehicle type/model produced LOL

 

this particular machine is an Electric Consort

 

well I say Electric Consort, but only the Petrol machines of this body style where called such, the Electric machines where Called the Harding Model IV, but me and Stuart just refer to them as Electric Consorts!

its a completely new one for the list, but it is interesting to note that it is East Sussex registered ANJ341B which is very interesting as one of the already known surviving Electric Harding Consorts out there is YNJ221, which is also an East Sussex mark and as such,I have to wonder if they are related to each other in some way (his and Hers carriages?, funnily enough a number of the Private AC and Invacars I have found on the DVLA computer have also been in pairs within the same reg block or close enough )

the story of this machine is that it was bought 53 years ago for its traction batteries by a farmer, who then let his son run around in it, until eventually it was parked up, and fast forward to the present day and the son is now old and flogged it on to Adam who managed to stumble across it  

 

the old farmer very fortunately still had the Buff logbook for it as well, which has been very interesting to study, and also means that getting it registered with the DVLA should be a relative doddle  

it confirmed to us that the electric consort bodied machines where indeed Called Model IV's (until this point Stuart was not sure if Model IV was simply an internal designation for them or not)

and also tells us what the chassis number of an Electric harding looks like! because of all the Electric hardings known to survive, the only one with a confirmed chassis number until now was only Stuarts own 1968 Model IV, but that being such a funky late machine, we knew would likely be different from the norm, so its awesome to finally see a period machine and what its registration details looked like

all in all very exciting! and hopefully Adam is able to get it up and running before not too long! and yes it really does have trafficators!  I can imagine walking past this trundling along at the side of the road and then suddenly getting thwacked in the face as the driver indicates left LOL

 

 

[barrett]

Wonderful. I really hope that is 'restored' with the lightest possible touch to the cosmetics. There can't be many ICs of that era which have original paint, upholstery and hood intact and in such great condition. It would be a crime to paint/re-upholster that survivor.

[Snake Charmer]

On 4/14/2022 at 2:42 AM, LightBulbFun said:

(even then @Zelandeth could have probably made use of that air cleaner assembly after a lick of paint )

Who's burn up was that?

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, Snake Charmer said:

Who's burn up was that?

I sadly dont really know the details other than it was a collection of Bikes and such I think that was lost in a fire, and that sadly these 2 Unknown Model 70's perished in the Fire  this happened long before my time and even tho stuart  was aware of them when I unearthed the pictures a few years back, he also had/has no details on them either sadly

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/maccmxf/harding-invalid-carriage-t4645659-s10.html#p2334

I do sometimes wonder about the 516 car, looks like it was prepped to banger raced at some point and then saved?

 

[LightBulbFun]

44 minutes ago, barrett said:

Wonderful. I really hope that is 'restored' with the lightest possible touch to the cosmetics. There can't be many ICs of that era which have original paint, upholstery and hood intact and in such great condition. It would be a crime to paint/re-upholster that survivor.

indeed im hoping it can be put back on the road with the minimal amount of work needed! as you say given the usual state these are in it is in relatively  good shape  (compared to how WPB764G and FFB550 where found thats for sure!) 

(although I would elect to go through its electric and make sure everything there is cleaned up and made safe! the last thing you want is 36V worth of traction batteries shorting out on something!)

[High Jetter]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

I do sometimes wonder about the 516 car, looks like it was prepped to banger raced at some point and then saved?

Perhaps the suicidal tendancies abated.

[AdgeCutler]

A few more bits done today, I thought I’d have more done but as always these small jobs take more time than I imagine despite having been doing this sort of thing for a good few years. All the door runner components have been plug welded together now and holes drilled in the repaired body to suit. I’ve built up a few very thin areas of one of the wheels (a better one still hasn’t come my way😞). More paint has also been applied to various components including various new bracketed I’ve made to replace rotten originals.

[egg]

Sorry if I'm way behind the curve, but I'm assuming that @AdgeCutler's admirable work here on essentially remanufacturing a MK12 is going to be useful templates and techniques for saving others such as @Mrs6C's?

[LightBulbFun]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

Sorry if I'm way behind the curve, but I'm assuming that @AdgeCutler's admirable work here on essentially remanufacturing a MK12 is going to be useful templates and techniques for saving others such as @Mrs6C's?

indeed I understand thats whats been happening, Certainly I know a few parts have been made in double so XWC can get fixed up as well (for example chassis out riggers and I think some door bits)

and im personally hoping all the technical drawings that have been made are able to be saved for future reference, for as you say other Mk12's  

[Mrs6C]

12 minutes ago, egg said:

Sorry if I'm way behind the curve, but I'm assuming that @AdgeCutler's admirable work here on essentially remanufacturing a MK12 is going to be useful templates and techniques for saving others such as @Mrs6C's?

Yes indeed. @AdgeCutler has created extras of the parts he has had remade, for me to use on XWC.

[AdgeCutler]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Sorry if I'm way behind the curve, but I'm assuming that @AdgeCutler's admirable work here on essentially remanufacturing a MK12 is going to be useful templates and techniques for saving others such as @Mrs6C's?

I'm just the Village idiot. Never forget, "If you think you can, you can. If you think you can't, you'm bloody well right", it just takes a special kind of stupid! Oh, and in my case a couple of good friends that are daft enough to join in.

[High Jetter]

Don't sell yourself short, nowhere near idiot territory. I for one, want to learn more.

[AdgeCutler]

My work with Brian seems to have helped give me a reprieve from my recent melancholy and I woke early and ready to go. I’ve now managed to get the inside of the wheels in paint before work and hope to do the other side later on.

[Weird Car]

Made it to and from work without drama, even managed to get a sneaky picture in the Disabled spot after we'd shut and everyone had gone home. 

[LightBulbFun]

6 minutes ago, Harriytait said:

Made it to and from work without drama, even managed to get a sneaky picture in the Disabled spot after we'd shut and everyone had gone home. 

Awesome stuff! very pleased to hear VJN made it to and fro without any issue  

I wonder what did work/your work mates think of the Invacar and you turning up in it?  (did they know you had her etc, or was it a fun surprise for them? LOL)

 

the first photo is quite a nice shot! BTW

[Weird Car]

2 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

Awesome stuff! very pleased to hear VJN made it to and fro without any issue  

I wonder what did work/your work mates think of the Invacar and you turning up in it?  (did they know you had her etc, or was it a fun surprise for them? LOL)

 

the first photo is quite a nice shot! BTW

They've know about her for a while as I talk their ears off about my fleet 😂, was quite funny seeing all the reactions though lol

[LightBulbFun]

5 hours ago, Zie said:

I'm sure @LightBulbFun has already been it. 

I had not actually! but thats an awesome find! its the first picture I have seen of 897PE outside of this snippet 

is what I was going to say, but while digging up the original image source 

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/shoppers-make-their-way-towards-the-new-market-and-shopping-news-photo/1331106410

and look at the photo in detail

I noticed that it has Indicators front and aft, indicating that it is an AC Acedes Mk10, not an Acedes Mk9 that 897PE is

so Im wondering, did they make more then 1 of these standing carriages or what gives!

I know Stuart mentioned that 897PE, survived until a surprsingly long time in the Heywood stores, until Julians shenanigans sadly meant it got scrapped

but I now wonder was this actually 897PE that was seen at Heywood, or did stuart see an AC Acedes like 897PE and simply assume that it was 897PE not realising that they may have made more than one?

I was wondering if this was perhaps 897PE, retrofitted with later lighting, but I dont see any witness marks on the rear wing where the teddybear indicators would of been

it also has a different style of hood to 897PE which as a 1 pice rear screen, where as this one has it in 2 parts, and i almost wonder if its even taller then 897PE, it looks it to me but its hard to tell for sure

all in all thats a very fascinating find and thank you for letting me know about it!  

[barefoot]

On 4/18/2022 at 12:48 PM, LightBulbFun said:

I sure hope that when someone is finally able to do a top speed run, that there is someone suitably down the road/drag strip/runway with a camera to record it because a Model 70 wizzing past at 80Mph must look hilarious from a bystanders POV

How soon can we expect to see you 'running what you brung' at the Pod then?

https://santapod.co.uk/rwyb-run-what-ya-brung.php

Sat 23 May 2022	Best of British	British Vehicles Only
Sun 24 April 2022	RWYB	All Cars & Bikes
Sat 7 May 2022	RWYB	All Cars & Bikes
Sat 14 May 2022	Saturday Night Special	All Cars & Bikes
3 - 5 June 2022	Nostalgia Nationals	Pre 1973 Vehicles Only, no rear engined dragsters or bikes
Mon 6 June 2022	Performance RWYB	All Cars & Bikes
Sat 11 June 2022	Saturday Night Special	All Cars & Bikes
Sat 18 June 2022	RWYB	All Cars & Bikes
Sun 19 June 2022	Retro Show	Retro Cars & Bikes and Kit Cars Only
Sat 25 June 2022	RWYB	All Cars & Bikes
Sun 26 June 2022	Fast Show Reloaded	All Cars & Bikes
Mon 4 July 2022	Performance RWYB	Cars & Bikes - Race Tyres Only
Fri 8 July 2022	Dragstalgia	Pre 1980 Cars & Bikes Only
Sat 16 July 2022	RWYB	All Cars & Bikes
5 - 7 August 2022	Ultimate Street Car	Cars Only
Sat 13 August 2022	RWYB	All Cars & Bikes
16 - 18 September 2022	Hot Rod Drags	Pre 1973 Vehicles Only, no rear engined dragsters or bikes
Mon 19 September 2022	Performance RWYB	Cars & Bikes - Race Tyres Only
Sat 1 October 2022	RWYB	All Cars & Bikes
Sat 8 October 2022	RWYB	All Cars & Bikes
Sat 15 October 2022	RWYB	All Cars & Bikes
Sat 22 October 2022	Saturday Night Special	All Cars & Bikes
Sun 23 October 2022	RWYB	All Cars & Bikes
Sun 30 October 2022	RWYB	All Cars & Bikes

[Zie]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

I had not actually! but thats an awesome find!

I finally managed to find something new! 😆

While this was my local shopping centre as a kid I didn't ever seen that One. 

I do remember One like yours that parked in the bus stop on the other side almost every time I was there. 

[D.E]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

 

Would that be capable of doing 70 or so as well? That would be terrifying...

[LightBulbFun]

17 minutes ago, D.E said:

Would that be capable of doing 70 or so as well? That would be terrifying...

depending on how good you are at tuning a Villiers 11E! (250cc Piston and barrel set etc) maybe? LOL

but on a more serious note, no, Top speed of a Normal AC Model 57 and most Villiers machines, depending on exact machine and gearing is about 40-45-50Mph (although I know of someone who got a Model 67 to do 60Mph down hill!)

I imagine with this adapted Model 57 you would would probably run into aerodynamical issues pretty quickly and must of been fun when it got gusty LOL

 

[barefoot]

12 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I know of someone who got a Model 67 to do 60Mph down hill!

I know of someone who got an FS1E to do 61mph on the flat!

[barrett]

21 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I noticed that it has Indicators front and aft, indicating that it is an AC Acedes Mk10, not an Acedes Mk9 that 897PE is

so Im wondering, did they make more then 1 of these standing carriages or what gives!

I know Stuart mentioned that 897PE, survived until a surprsingly long time in the Heywood stores, until Julians shenanigans sadly meant it got scrapped

Just curious as to what 'shenanigans' these were! Reading old issues of Rumcar News and Toilet Blue the impression I get is that Julian was really pushing to get as many ICs saved as possible before they were all scrapped (I guess in 2002?) and that he helped liberate lots of older machines and get them into safe hands. Certainly the way he told it, and was widely reported at the time, was that all the Villiers-era stuff in store was destined to be scrapped as there was no longer any call for spares and they were trying to save as many as possible before that happened. I'd be curious to know what the other side of the story is (although also well aware that one shouldn't speak ill of the dead and that I'm sure several people on this forum were friends with Julian...)

[mitsisigma01]

5 hours ago, barefoot said:

I know of someone who got an FS1E to do 61mph on the flat!

They would of been behind me on my Suzuki A50 MK2 then 😜

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, barrett said:

Just curious as to what 'shenanigans' these were! Reading old issues of Rumcar News and Toilet Blue the impression I get is that Julian was really pushing to get as many ICs saved as possible before they were all scrapped (I guess in 2002?) and that he helped liberate lots of older machines and get them into safe hands. Certainly the way he told it, and was widely reported at the time, was that all the Villiers-era stuff in store was destined to be scrapped as there was no longer any call for spares and they were trying to save as many as possible before that happened. I'd be curious to know what the other side of the story is (although also well aware that one shouldn't speak ill of the dead and that I'm sure several people on this forum were friends with Julian...)

indeed! he was very enthusiastic about these machines and indeed helped save a good a number, especially Villiers machines, he managed to convince the Ministry to donate quite a few to museums etc

and its thanks to him managing that, that what few Villiers machines survive, do survive in the first place!

 

but also sadly went about things in the wrong manner and also actively encouraged people to shall we say, "appropriate" machines from where they could and was quite vocal about doing so, and as such eventually he sadly ended up on the Ministry's bad side because of this, 

hence why, although quite a few people inside of the ministry did want to see these machines saved and preserved, in the end the Ministry was "forced" to scrapped a lot of the machines they had in store, which included a lot of the the rarest and more obscure machines sadly (like the standing Acedes) to stop people from pinching them and messing about with them

 

this was not helped that people where also generally messing around with the cars in general (if you go onto Facebook theres a video from 2010, where one of the previous Keepers of MHJ22P uses it to mess with people at a Tescos car park, and its exactly that sort of thing that the Ministry did not want happening)

https://www.facebook.com/stirling.morley/videos/102368189794173

 

I also understand he was also not very good when it came to getting Invacars road-registered again, and a number ended up rung and on Q plates because of that, (like Q202LDV for example)

 

from what I understand, Julian wanted to save the machines, but it seems like it did not matter how that was achieved, if they where officially donated, or literally pinched from the back of an Approved repairers yard! and he was quite open and vocal about that, hence the Ministry clamping down

 

sadly as you say he passed away a while back, which is a great shame id of loved to have had a chat with him and see if I could get the full picture! and obviously of course talked about what he saw at Heywood when he was able to visit etc  

[barrett]

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

sadly as you say he passed away a while back, which is a great shame id of loved to have had a chat with him and see if I could get the full picture! and obviously of course talked about what he saw at Heywood when he was able to visit etc  

Julian only died a couple of months ago, sadly. Shame you didn't get to speak to him about his IC days. I think he faced a real uphil struggle against apathy from the wider microcar community which didn't see the importance or appeal of ICs. I don't think he had an IC or any involvement with them in recent years

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, barrett said:

Julian only died a couple of months ago, sadly. Shame you didn't get to speak to him about his IC days. I think he faced a real uphil struggle against apathy from the wider microcar community which didn't see the importance or appeal of ICs. I don't think he had an IC or any involvement with them in recent years

indeed thats sadly something that very much happened, and still happens to large degree still as well, just look at all the animosity Invacars get just on here!

I imagine some of it back then was, as well as the usual prejudices and social stuff that Invacars have against them even today, was also because

back then they would of also been just considered street furniture, and not considered anything special or worthy to be in their meets/gatherings 

no one would of thought twice about them in the same way no one would of thought twice about a Thorn Beta 5 street light or a K6 telephone box, or Pillar box,

only a few people in period like Julian, Stuart and a handful others actually realised just how special these vehicles where and what deep history they had, and that they where worth saving and researching before they all vanished

if theres one thing I find frustrating with Invacars is how I showed up on the "scene" just that little bit too late! 

if only I was around where I am now 10-20 years ago!

these days with Invacars having been "gone" for almost 20 years now, at least people are starting to get nostalgic about them, so that sort of helps with acceptance in some regards

(although a lot of it is not positive nostalgia, its mostly "Oh yeah we called those xxx when young!" or "Oh I know an Old lady who had one across the road, we used to vandalise it frequently" )

[uk_senator]

Seen in Havant a few days ago apparently, nicked from a FB group I`m in (the post was closed because of the unusual, ignorant comments they ALWAYS generate 😐).