invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[loserone]

To be fair, it sounds like Adam has done a pretty good job of freeing off and getting working just enough of the bits you need to get a good start.  And to do that for free is pretty spectacular.

Any car as old as this left standing for this long will keep finding significant issues for a while unless you did a whole car restoration before getting it anywhere near a road.  And I'd have thought that would be close to £10k of work though.

 

As is, it looks like you have started the overwhelming process of realising that you have an old car on the road and that it's always going to need stuff and it's never easy or convenient.

[Dobloseven]

Firstly, it sounds as if Adam has done a hell of a lot and probably got to the point where  he thought enough was enough. There's a world of difference between a car that can be driven round a field and one that can be driven safely on busy city roads and really should be capable of passing an Mot test, even if exempt. Regarding the brakes, looked at the manual download, and got a horrible sense of deja vu. They look very similar to  Morris Ital I owned in the eighties. Which would make sense of the Triumph connection as the rear drums had Stanpart cast into them. Remember changing siezed cylinders(on a 4 year old car) only for them to sieze again not long after. All eminently doable though. Is the front brake the same as the rears, without the handbrake mechanism obviously? Also, if converting to dual circuit, what master cylinder would one use? I'm becoming morbidly fascinated with these things. Surprised how few people remember them. My grandsons didn't believe me until I showed them some photos, that they would park behind the goals at football matches. I predict that one day their time will come. Perhaps they'll get some exposure on Top Gear like the Peel did. Or a period police drama with a disabled cop, injured in the line of duty driving one, seeking revenge. "Fire up the Invacar!" Then prices for the survivors will rocket, replicas will be built, Jay Leno will have one. Dez will become the world authority and enthusiasts will travel from around the globe to ascend the stairs to his London flat to be granted a brief audience while he sits with his cat on his lap. Seriously though, it all looks sortable, best of luck in the New Year and Merry Christmas to one and all. 

[LightBulbFun]

7 hours ago, loserone said:

To be fair, it sounds like Adam has done a pretty good job of freeing off and getting working just enough of the bits you need to get a good start.  And to do that for free is pretty spectacular.

Any car as old as this left standing for this long will keep finding significant issues for a while unless you did a whole car restoration before getting it anywhere near a road.  And I'd have thought that would be close to £10k of work though.

 

As is, it looks like you have started the overwhelming process of realising that you have an old car on the road and that it's always going to need stuff and it's never easy or convenient.

Yeah dont get me wrong as I said previously, I very much appreciate the work that was done! for example id be screwed without the shiny new fuel tank he very kindly put together for me!

the original plan was to keep REV at the FoD/the Barn and keep plucking away at jobs until she was ready for the road, not looking for a full restoration or anything, just looking to get her mechanically sound

the problem is she was brought home before she was mechanically ready and that is what has left me in a pickle if that makes sense, especially as from day 1 I knew that the brakes where beyond abilities and was one of the primary reasons she was still at the FoD, over 2 years after I got her

 

the best way I can put it, is like someone said they would make you a cake, so they get a bunch ingredients together and start putting the cake together, but then they give it to you uncooked and you dont have an oven to bake it at home

so you very much appreciate the cake it looks like a really good cake and you know those ingredients where not cheap or easy to mix together, but its still left you with a problem of a cake you cant cook, and you just wish you where told that it was not yet baked, so you could have had it taken to someone with an oven or at least a fridge to keep it in until it can be baked

23 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

Firstly, it sounds as if Adam has done a hell of a lot and probably got to the point where  he thought enough was enough. There's a world of difference between a car that can be driven round a field and one that can be driven safely on busy city roads and really should be capable of passing an Mot test, even if exempt. Regarding the brakes, looked at the manual download, and got a horrible sense of deja vu. They look very similar to  Morris Ital I owned in the eighties. Which would make sense of the Triumph connection as the rear drums had Stanpart cast into them. Remember changing siezed cylinders(on a 4 year old car) only for them to sieze again not long after. All eminently doable though. Is the front brake the same as the rears, without the handbrake mechanism obviously? Also, if converting to dual circuit, what master cylinder would one use? I'm becoming morbidly fascinated with these things. Surprised how few people remember them. My grandsons didn't believe me until I showed them some photos, that they would park behind the goals at football matches. I predict that one day their time will come. Perhaps they'll get some exposure on Top Gear like the Peel did. Or a period police drama with a disabled cop, injured in the line of duty driving one, seeking revenge. "Fire up the Invacar!" Then prices for the survivors will rocket, replicas will be built, Jay Leno will have one. Dez will become the world authority and enthusiasts will travel from around the globe to ascend the stairs to his London flat to be granted a brief audience while he sits with his cat on his lap. Seriously though, it all looks sortable, best of luck in the New Year and Merry Christmas to one and all. 

I did explain/mention several times that, this will be my only car and the work I can do on her by the roadside will be limited, so I need her to be mechanically ready as she can be before coming home, and I thought Adam understood that and was happy with doing that work

again its put me in a really difficult spot, because I really do appreciate the work done, I just with the communication was better, so I could have avoided landing in the situation I am now

as for the dual circuit brake master cylinder heres the details on that  (its a shame about the fact you need to modify the brake yoke or pushrod as otherwise it would be pretty much a drop in replacement!)

On 13/06/2021 at 22:33, Zelandeth said:

The one I got was TRW GMC226.  Intended for a 1978-80 Triumph Spitfire 1500.

Note that fitting that WILL require you to modify either the brake yoke or the pushrod as the rest position of the piston is slightly different. 

Ideally it wants the reservoir swapping for a remote one so it's not sitting at an angle - doesn't affect functionality but looks a bit messy.

It works well though!

 

 

[grogee]

Re: friendly garages. I answered a call on our local Facebook page for a 'friendly' mechanic. Bloke has a fleet of classics that all need silly jobs eg windscreen washers n/w, LR diff seal etc etc. Little jobs that would cost a lot individually, but instead I'm on a 'retainer' and just go over there regularly to plough through the jobs list. 

Suits us both because he's time-poor and although I'm not getting max dollar, I do enjoy working on his fleet and it allows me to get closer to classics I wouldn't otherwise see or experience. 

TL;dr: Facebook local ad - "wanted, local mechanic to help with small jobs on older vehicles. Decent rate plus cups of tea and nattering."

 

[dollywobbler]

The brakes are absolutely identical on all three wheels, with the front wheel retaining the handbrake mechanism! It just isn't connected to anything.

[Dobloseven]

45 minutes ago, dollywobbler said:

The brakes are absolutely identical on all three wheels, with the front wheel retaining the handbrake mechanism! It just isn't connected to anything.

Every days a schoolday! 

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, Dobloseven said:

Every days a schoolday! 

I did wonder during one of the past zoom calls if you could add another cable to the handbrake pull and have it such you have a handbrake on all 3 wheels LOL (not that you really need that in a car that weighs 410-414Kg but it was an amusing thought)

 

speaking of brakes, I have ordered a set of wheel chocks

will in the coming days try and see if I can get things to free off, im hoping its a simple fix and I only need to poke at the handbrake pivot, but if not ill chock the car and try and see if I can get anywhere with adjusting the shoes/some percussive maintenance on the drums

and if I can maybe even try get the wheels and drums off and see what exactly is what, but we will see! (and for that I got myself a set of 5 different pliers, dont think ill end up getting that deep into the brakes next time I go out, but always handy to have on hand)

 

do really wish it didn't get dark so early, by the time I am feeling something vaguely alive and up for doing some tinkering, its already 4PM and dark LOL

[Zelandeth]

As an addendum regarding the dual circuit brake upgrade, I know at the time there were some questions about whether there would be issues with the front brake locking up too easily etc due to the differing capacity of the system because there's only one wheel cylinder on that circuit.

It's absolutely fine.  It's been in there for over 1000 miles now I think and is absolutely perfect.  I've had to do a couple of emergency braking manoeuvres - most recently when a bus decided to pull straight out in front of me onto a 70mph dual carriageway, when I was doing near 70.  No issues whatsoever, and I can vouch for the fact that when in good order the brakes in a Model 70 are plenty effective.  Surprisingly so for a car from the early 70s to be honest.  Let's face it, the brakes get worked hard around here!

[Out Run]

Has anyone ever hit VMAX in one of these and verfiied the top speed with GPS?

LBF, re it getting dark early, go to bed at a different time.

I often go to sleep at 2/3/4am and can be up for work, or to tinker about.

[LightBulbFun]

42 minutes ago, Out Run said:

Has anyone ever hit VMAX in one of these and verfiied the top speed with GPS?

sadly not that im aware of, I eagerly await for someone to make an attempt however  as no one actually knows what the Vmax for a Model 70 actually is, so even shits and giggles aside, im eager to find out from a research/facts and figures POV as well

42 minutes ago, Out Run said:

LBF, re it getting dark early, go to bed at a different time.

I often go to sleep at 2/3/4am and can be up for work, or to tinker about.

sadly that does not quite work for me, due to my disability and the pain it causes it means its very difficult for me to sleep and stay asleep

I get into bed at 10PM, but often dont fall asleep until 2-3AM and often its more passing out then it is falling asleep, and its not good quality sleep either sadly and its very easy for me to get woken up *glares at my cat* which does not help things further 

so even if im awake at 9-10-11AM the following morning it will take me a few hours to actually be compos mentis so to speak LOL

[EightMegs]

I was showing my grandfather pictures of REV over Christmas dinner and he told me that in the 1970s, there was an Invacar doing the rounds in Knocktopher in Co. Kilkenny. I wonder if it was a privately held example or one of the donated ones that you were telling me about when I went down to see REV?

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, EightMegs said:

I was showing my grandfather pictures of REV over Christmas dinner and he told me that in the 1970s, there was an Invacar doing the rounds in Knocktopher in Co. Kilkenny. I wonder if it was a privately held example or one of the donated ones that you were telling me about when I went down to see REV?

Ooh thats very interesting! it would be very interesting if your grandfather can remember any details about it? even just generally what type it was? perhaps if you can show him pictures of the various different Models it might jog his memory?

Ireland had no Invalid vehicle scheme (AFAIK!) so any found over there will be private examples and few and far between and so all the more interesting!

(for example I have a few holes in my Model 70 private Chassis number list and I wonder if those that I cant find on the DVLA may be Irish or otherwise examples sold outside the UK?)

 

the Invacars donated by Invacar Ltd via the Essex Rotary club where all early 1960s Invacar Mk12 examples

separate from that heres a list of invalid vehicles pictured in Ireland that I know about

ONO454D another Invacar Mk12 at some point in its life found its way to the ROI (but I sadly dont know when)  

On 21/08/2019 at 00:50, LightBulbFun said:

@Datsuncog be like @egg  https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1146777

(for a Mk12 its in fucking good shape!  ONO454D is its reg if its hard to make out)

 

 

I do hope someone here buys it, id like to see it go to a good home 

price wise for £1250 id say its OK it could be be much worse, its in very good shape for a Mk12, (i know of Mk12s in much worse shape then this for about the same price)

but its a different beast from the Model 70 much more crude and not as usable in day to day life, so keep that in mind, i got posted the link to it on my thread on the retro rides forum, currently asking if the person who sent the link is the person selling it, as id like a vin plate picture  

 

then theres this Invacar Mk12 pictured in period in Dublin on a ROI plate, (but I dont think its one of the Rotary club donation ones as it has glass side windows where as the Donated ones did not being early Mk12's)

On 02/05/2020 at 00:59, barrett said:

Yes, it's Dublin in 1978, cropped from this photo, and there's definitely a Z in the reg somewhere!

 

 

theres also this Model 70 which suspiciously looks like it has a ROI plate, but its hard to say for sure

On 28/01/2021 at 17:58, LightBulbFun said:

@keef shared this picture with me today and I was wondering if anyone has a clearer/higher rez version?

I ask because the registration on the Model 70 looks like a 3 number 3 letter ROI registration number which is most curious as I have never seen a ROI Model 70 before (well there was that one for sale in the ROI recently but I dont know sadly if that was a ROI private example or a far flung English/NI Ministry example, I still need to chase it up)

but back to the photo theres what looks like a Z in the middle of the 3 letters (which tells me its a ROI plate) and it looks like its spaced as a 6 character plate XXX XXX rather then as a 7 character plate which would be XXX XXXX

but its hard to say cuz its not very clear sadly

Keef found the picture here for those curious https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=140&t=1807882&i=5240

I think the picture was taken in England tho so if its a ROI Model 70 then it sure has travelled quite the distance!

then theres DNI89 a Tippen Delta 3, a survivor and the only Tippen Delta 3  known to still survive!

On 14/05/2021 at 20:57, LightBulbFun said:

and finally this nice picture of DNI89, notable not just for being an Irish registered Tippen Delta but a survivor, this one does survive somewhere I think its the only known surviving Tippen Delta 3, but this photograph is a new one! not one stuart had seen before etc

I wonder if the current owner of DNI89 is aware of it or not? there are not many period photos of surviving invalid vehicles sadly so this quite the find!

I also love the front *ahem* number "plate"  

 

 

 

and then finally theres the Model 70 that popped up for sale in Ireland last year, I still need to figure out a way of contacting the seller! thankfully I saved screenshots of the listing so I still have the number!

On 01/11/2020 at 12:18, LightBulbFun said:

On 01/11/2020 at 08:04, dollywobbler said:

Have you seen the Invacar for sale on DoneDeal.ie ? 4750 Euros for a project. Good luck... "Porsche engine," well, close...

https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/-aacutec-invacar/26382232

no I had not seen that one!

in Ireland thats very interesting as they had no invalid vehicle scheme AFAIK... so either its a private example sold there when new, or an ex Ministry example that someone dragged over from NI or England (the fact its missing its registration plate makes me think ex-ministry example)

On 01/11/2020 at 10:06, Mrs6C said:

It has a steering wheel!

The seller, Patrick, is a long-time Landrover enthusiast. It might be worth giving him a call and helping him find the chassis number of that Model 70, then doing a bit of research for him so he can put some history of it together for the prospective purchaser. His telephone number is an Irish one, of course. so needs the Ireland code. The car is mentioned as being in Tullow, which has a Leonard Cheshire home in it, so perhaps that Model 70 had belonged to a resident.

yeah shame theres no email option, I found out the hard way when the Invacar Mk12 in Ireland popped up for sale that my phone due to my data plan cant really do international calls!

so ill have to think how I can go about contacting him for the details to help him ID it is as you say

On 01/11/2020 at 10:06, Mrs6C said:

Also from Ireland (NI as opposed to Eire) this looks like a Tippen Delta?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOZdRJwXkAAZJiJ?format=jpg&name=900x900
https://twitter.com/pipmcgowan/status/1217763303386177537/photo/1

indeed, looks like a Tippen Delta 3 4 or 5 to be exact  

 

[adw1977]

9 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I think the picture was taken in England tho so if its a ROI Model 70 then it sure has travelled quite the distance

The headboard on the train says Scarborough Spa Express, a service that ran between York and Scarborough in the summer between 1981 and 1988 (and again from 2002) according to Wikipedia, so that narrows down the location.  The A reg Volvo narrows the date range down to 1983-88.

[lanciamatt]

Lbf , if you wasn't so far away I'd come and do a day working on it for you . I drive old cars and I'm a mechanic by trade . Let me tell you there is never really a time all my 3 don't need something doing , whether is something simple like a bulb , or more pressing like just finishing doing the tappets . My point is , leaving rev at the field till the jobs are done would never happen , as a old car parked outside would keep developing issues and your list would keep going. It's better where it is and at least you can keep it running and clean etc. Even if brakes are binding a bit , it wouldn't harm it to keep moving it about abit . As others have said , I'd find a local classic friendly garage , just be weary as you could run a big bill quite easily . Hope you get it sorted and usable shortly . 

[red5]

With the greatest respect chap - 

being a "Crippled" 18 year old im not exactly flush with cash sadly, (I was/am hoping to use the invacar as a means of transportation so I can get a job and bring in a steady income, as my back cant handle the daily commute on public transport) but if he does happen to have an invacar in "fairly good nick" kicking around/for sale I am very much interested 

there are two things here. 

No1 - the transport for a job. This isn't it. It's nowhere close to it. I have a selection of vehicles that I 'enjoy' maintenance of...however, reliable, practical and appropriate comes first. Job will lead to disposable income which can pay for some things you can't do 

No2 - maintenance of said vehicles - I am ideally placed to do it myself. With a decent workshop, 30 years worth of tools and experience / skills to boot. I wouldn't take on a barely running, obsolete when new, 40 year vehicle that's been sat in a field and expect to get it actually roadworthy without said skills, tools and space. 

This is an accident in waiting of some description. Perhaps a re-evaluation of the situation would be beneficial?

red5, going in. 

[dollywobbler]

23 hours ago, Out Run said:

Has anyone ever hit VMAX in one of these and verfiied the top speed with GPS?

LBF, re it getting dark early, go to bed at a different time.

I often go to sleep at 2/3/4am and can be up for work, or to tinker about.

I managed 70mph downhill on the A23 once, sat nav confirmed. Also confirmed that the speedometer is remarkably accurate. That was while TWC wasn't in the finest fettle. She hit 65mph on the Shrewsbury bypass more recently, without the need for gravity. I know there's an 82mph claim, but even allowing for the fact some allegedly had 643cc engines fitted, it would be absolutely screaming at that. Bear in mind 50mph is 4000rpm I think? That's 5600rpm at 70. (mathematics may be flawed)

[captain_70s]

1 hour ago, lanciamatt said:

 My point is , leaving rev at the field till the jobs are done would never happen , as a old car parked outside would keep developing issues and your list would keep going. 

This.

Getting REV into a state of basic functionality would take a few full days work. Getting it into a state of being reliable transport? Weeks? Months?

Currently, of the cars on my fleet that are on the road going and legal, I'm expecting £300-500 worth of outgoings in parts and several full weekends worth of work for Spring's MOTs. This is a pair of cars that do less than 5k a year and haven't been sat in a field for decades.

 

This issue here is your sole means of getting this car fixed is having others do it for free. The entire operation has hinged on the car being delivered to you essentially ready to go. Now the message between the lines is hoping a group of enthusiastic amateurs will venture inside the M25 to try and fix it one weekend.

I know you say you appreciate the works carried out massively, but you're also quick to criticise people who have helped for not helping enough, or communicating properly, or parts not arriving as fast as you'd like. 

The bills from a garage are going to be seriously disadvantageous to somebody with no income @ £40+ an hour and parts on top.

You aren't able to work on the car yourself physically in real capacity and you're limited to daylight hours. Where the thing is kept it is at risk of vandalism or malicious neighbours dobbing you into the police.

Now I know the fashion on AS is to be permanently positive about things and to claim any dream is possible. (I also note that one of your more local supporters has said "lol no" to helping you.) 

It strikes me that, by the virtue of folk's generousity, you've been somewhat dumped in the shit. With all of the best intentions of the people involved you're left with a broken car you can't fix sat in a risky location at the shittest time of the year.

I can't do fuck all to help, being in another country and knowing jack shit about Invacars. I'd suggest you start saving/selling things to try and fund it's repairs at a classic friendly garage.

[Zelandeth]

6 minutes ago, dollywobbler said:

I managed 70mph downhill on the A23 once, sat nav confirmed. Also confirmed that the speedometer is remarkably accurate. That was while TWC wasn't in the finest fettle. She hit 65mph on the Shrewsbury bypass more recently, without the need for gravity. I know there's an 82mph claim, but even allowing for the fact some allegedly had 643cc engines fitted, it would be absolutely screaming at that. Bear in mind 50mph is 4000rpm I think? That's 5600rpm at 70. (mathematics may be flawed)

I know that TPA will do 70+, but exactly how much past that I don't know.  The red line on these engines is at something frankly daft for the period. 

I do intend to find out hopefully where she maxes out one day, but it's not going to be on a public highway.

I definitely get the feeling that there's a significant variation from car to car - as often seems to be the case with relatively low volume hand built vehicles.

Realistically though, 70 is reserved for overtaking on main roads without pissing off other road users as it's sodding loud.  50-60 is far more comfortable.

[PhilA]

I find 16hp at 4600 with 23 lb/ft at 2800 RPM, so I would hazard a guess the redline is probably somewhere in the mid 5000's?

 

Phil

[Yoss]

I'll admit Dez isn't going about it the easiest way but it's not necessarily the wrong way. When I started driving I went straight into a 25 year old Triumph and had no mechanical knowledge or tools whatsoever. But you buy a few at a time, look at a Haynes book (there was no Internet so they were all we had) and see what happens. It'll take years to pick it all up but Dez has time on his side and a lot less to learn about with an Invacar than with a modern car. 

I realise REV isn't there yet but there's no reason why a well sorted Invacar shouldn't be reasonably reliable transport and again you don't have to rush these things. I have a 52 year old Triumph and I reckon its just as reliable as a lot of the modern cars on here judging by most of the threads I read. It doesn't get used  as much as it used to simply because the garage it lives in has two Škodas parked in front of it and I'm too lazy too shuffle them all round but last had it out when the Favorit went for it's respray and used it for six weeks straight with no problems. I'd have no worry in getting in it tomorrow and going anywhere after a quick check of the levels and tyre pressures. 

Also any problems that do arise are likely to be far simpler and cheaper than even the simplest modern car. 

And I've seen REVs parking space and it really is tucked out of the way, behind a Rover SD1 that never moves but has also not been vandalised. 

Not saying there won't be problems but we all have them in some form and as somebody who I think is now the country's foremost authority on Invacars  it does seem only right that he should have one. 

So carry on Dez and don't worry if everything takes longer than you were hoping. Everything always does. 

[captain_70s]

19 minutes ago, Yoss said:

I'll admit Dez isn't going about it the easiest way but it's not necessarily the wrong way. When I started driving I went straight into a 25 year old Triumph and had no mechanical knowledge or tools whatsoever. But you buy a few at a time, look at a Haynes book (there was no Internet so they were all we had) and see what happens. It'll take years to pick it all up but Dez has time on his side and a lot less to learn about with an Invacar than with a modern car. 

Learning and time isn't the issue*, the issue is that Dez physically can't work on the car like most owners of old cars, and when he can't DIY he has no income to pay somebody to fix it for him.

I also tried to daily a 1970s shitbox car, it was functional but working on it was a daily occurrence, it strikes me Dez isn't able to lug a trolly jack and stands down several flights of stairs and then spend several hours rolling around in the dirt or folded into an engine bay. 

There is a reason OAPs sell cars they've owned for 50 years because they can no longer work on them...

*Having said that, everybody who has an Invacar on this site seems to find them an uphill struggle.

[D.E]

Invacars look like fun little things with an interesting history (I had never heard of them before I knew of HubNut's channel and this forum/thread) but technical issues and such aside: can they be a suitable commuter, comfort-wise?  Of course this will depend on the length and whereabouts of your commute as well, but were they originally designed with daily use in mind?

[dozeydustman]

I need to concur with Red5 and a couple of others here. You can daily a classic quite easily if it’s been in regular use. REV, as far as I can tell, spent an amount of time off the road before being transported to the FoD, where it sat on grass doing nowt. Recommissioning something after an amount of time of disuse isn’t a couple of weeks’ work in many cases, and REV is far from ready to be on the road IMHO - while a historic vehicle doesn’t require an MoT, it still needs to be roadworthy.

 I do not think the seat in REV, if it’s standard, will offer you any support for your fragile back - I think you should consider quite seriously a sensible small car (Micra, Yaris, 107/108) as a daily vehicle and keep REV as a weekend plaything to gallivant around in and tinker with

[LightBulbFun]

5 hours ago, captain_70s said:

This.

Getting REV into a state of basic functionality would take a few full days work. Getting it into a state of being reliable transport? Weeks? Months?

Currently, of the cars on my fleet that are on the road going and legal, I'm expecting £300-500 worth of outgoings in parts and several full weekends worth of work for Spring's MOTs. This is a pair of cars that do less than 5k a year and haven't been sat in a field for decades.

 

This issue here is your sole means of getting this car fixed is having others do it for free. The entire operation has hinged on the car being delivered to you essentially ready to go. Now the message between the lines is hoping a group of enthusiastic amateurs will venture inside the M25 to try and fix it one weekend.

I know you say you appreciate the works carried out massively, but you're also quick to criticise people who have helped for not helping enough, or communicating properly, or parts not arriving as fast as you'd like. 

The bills from a garage are going to be seriously disadvantageous to somebody with no income @ £40+ an hour and parts on top.

You aren't able to work on the car yourself physically in real capacity and you're limited to daylight hours. Where the thing is kept it is at risk of vandalism or malicious neighbours dobbing you into the police.

Now I know the fashion on AS is to be permanently positive about things and to claim any dream is possible. (I also note that one of your more local supporters has said "lol no" to helping you.) 

It strikes me that, by the virtue of folk's generousity, you've been somewhat dumped in the shit. With all of the best intentions of the people involved you're left with a broken car you can't fix sat in a risky location at the shittest time of the year.

I can't do fuck all to help, being in another country and knowing jack shit about Invacars. I'd suggest you start saving/selling things to try and fund it's repairs at a classic friendly garage.

It was never my intention to come across as criticising the work, again I very much appreciate the work that has been done 

I just wish I was told what was and was not done, so I could have had her taken to the FoD or such to await further tinkering,

if you noticed until I was pressed about it, I tried to make mention as little as possible, that not as much had been done as I thought even tho it was pretty clear to me the moment she came off the trailer

because I really do appreciate the work that Adam has done, even just finically the new fuel tank and the battery for example would not have been cheap!

and I did not want to seem like I was discrediting him, but people asked about it and now im being told im being quick to criticise, I feel thats not very fair! and this is what I meant by it puts me in a really awkward position

I know this is the internet and all, but I feel like everything I say or do is being used a bit unfairly against me here

for example several people from this forum very kindly come and help me and leave helpful comments but your  saying that between the lines im hoping that a bunch of people will come and fix it in one weekend?

im  by no means expecting/just sitting on my arse hoping for that to happen, and any help I do receive is greatly appreciated and I feel very awkward when I do feel the need to directly ask for help

 

also a few people are commenting about the work she will need

I have mentioned several times that I am well aware that cars especially older one needs TLC, and that they are not a walk in the park, however  I am confident I can do the simpler tasks by myself, there not exactly easy for me to do, but I feel I can do them when they are needed

for example I was able to drain off the excess oil, replace the battery strap and fit the electric fuel pump on my own

but completely stripping and replacing the entire braking system of a Model 70 on your own on the roadside in the middle of winter is I think is a bit beyond my and id argue most people abilities , although again for now I am hoping I can at least free things off on my own but we will see how far I get with that LOL

 

its just as I mentioned i had hoped to get her into a higher state of repair before brining her home, so that by the time such big jobs where needed again id have already found a suitable garage to take her too and preemptively take her to that garage before things get the point of being immobile 

just like I imagine you would not take your Acclaim home if it still had large chunks of bodywork missing from it, you would I imagine find some alternative arrangement to keep the car elsewhere until the work could be completed

 

and the thing is, REV really does not need all that much more done, its mainly sort the brakes out, and give her a good servicing 

then it is just a case of use her and see how things go (will be interesting to see what health the pulleys are in but the only way to find that out is get her up to 40-50Mph and seeing how she behaves)

 

4 hours ago, dozeydustman said:

I need to concur with Red5 and a couple of others here. You can daily a classic quite easily if it’s been in regular use. REV, as far as I can tell, spent an amount of time off the road before being transported to the FoD, where it sat on grass doing nowt. Recommissioning something after an amount of time of disuse isn’t a couple of weeks’ work in many cases, and REV is far from ready to be on the road IMHO - while a historic vehicle doesn’t require an MoT, it still needs to be roadworthy.

 I do not think the seat in REV, if it’s standard, will offer you any support for your fragile back - I think you should consider quite seriously a sensible small car (Micra, Yaris, 107/108) as a daily vehicle and keep REV as a weekend plaything to gallivant around in and tinker with

indeed I am aware of that, hence the plan was to get her recommissioned one way or another however long that would take before bringing her home, but as I have mentioned a few times now, if I had known she was in the state she is in now, id of not had her brought home

so i feel the criticisms for having a car in such a state at home is again a bit unfair

and as also explained several times in throughout this thread, I would entertain the idea of a sensible modern, but theres a 1 car per resident policy here sadly and I cant financially support more then 1 car ( and as mentioned modern cars can still go wrong and in some fun and excitingly expensive ways too)

life has shat on me majorly and prevented me from doing many a thing I have wanted do in life, and so I was not going to and am not going to let it take this away from me!

 

with regards to comfort, the seat might look basic, but I find it and the Model 70 in general surprisingly comfortable much more so then any modern I have driven,

I also find the lack of foot pedals and the wide open foot well help a lot as my feet and legs are able to find their comfortable rest positions without being locked in place by the need to operate a set of fixed peddles 

a nice side bonus of getting a handle bar control machine  (although I will say the steering is rather heavy at when your parallel parking into a tight space LOL)

besides if I do in time find the seat a problem a Citroen Xantia seat bolts right in! (although I found the high ridges of the Xantia seat a bit painful to get over, on the standard seat I am able to just slide on and off it)

 

[Yoss]

39 minutes ago, captain_70s said:

 

I also tried to daily a 1970s shitbox car, it was functional but working on it was a daily occurrence, 

Yes I've read your thread but your Dolomites were both heaps from the start and you literally ran the 1500 until it seized knowing full well it was going to implode at any time. I've done all that but thirty years earlier. I went through a whole raft of big and small Triumph saloons and Landcrabs. Never paid more than £500 for them and usually considerably less. They usually died through rust and you just bought another. 

But then I actually paid good money for a decent one in 1995 and I've had it ever since. It's much easier to keep on top of a good car than be continually chasing the faults on a heap. 

Obviously Dez doesn't have that option, you can't just go and buy another one like I used to be able to with Triumphs. 

32 minutes ago, dozeydustman said:

I need to concur with Red5 and a couple of others here. You can daily a classic quite easily if it’s been in regular use. REV, as far as I can tell, spent an amount of time off the road before being transported to the FoD, where it sat on grass doing nowt. Recommissioning something after an amount of time of disuse isn’t a couple of weeks’ work in many cases, and REV is far from ready to be on the road IMHO - while a historic vehicle doesn’t require an MoT, it still needs to be roadworthy.

 I do not think the seat in REV, if it’s standard, will offer you any support for your fragile back - I think you should consider quite seriously a sensible small car (Micra, Yaris, 107/108) as a daily vehicle and keep REV as a weekend plaything to gallivant around in and tinker with

That's a Catch 22 situation though isn't it. You have to start using it before it can be in daily use. 

[LightBulbFun]

4 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

I managed 70mph downhill on the A23 once, sat nav confirmed. Also confirmed that the speedometer is remarkably accurate. That was while TWC wasn't in the finest fettle. She hit 65mph on the Shrewsbury bypass more recently, without the need for gravity. I know there's an 82mph claim, but even allowing for the fact some allegedly had 643cc engines fitted, it would be absolutely screaming at that. Bear in mind 50mph is 4000rpm I think? That's 5600rpm at 70. (mathematics may be flawed)

 

3 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

I know that TPA will do 70+, but exactly how much past that I don't know.  The red line on these engines is at something frankly daft for the period. 

I do intend to find out hopefully where she maxes out one day, but it's not going to be on a public highway.

I definitely get the feeling that there's a significant variation from car to car - as often seems to be the case with relatively low volume hand built vehicles.

Realistically though, 70 is reserved for overtaking on main roads without pissing off other road users as it's sodding loud.  50-60 is far more comfortable.

 

3 hours ago, PhilA said:

I find 16hp at 4600 with 23 lb/ft at 2800 RPM, so I would hazard a guess the redline is probably somewhere in the mid 5000's?

 

Phil

a Model 70 depending on which figure in the workshop manual you use to do the maths, will be at 70Mph, doing 5250RPM or 5444RPM,

or 6150RPM or 6371RPM at 82Mph

sadly I have never quite been able to find a stated redline for the Steyr puch engine, but the engine workshop manual states that peak horsepower, all 19.3* of it, is produced at 5000RPM

so a Model 70 will be producing peak power at either 64.3Mph or (and this tickles me no end) 66.6Mph

 

*it is worth noting that the Engine part of workshop manual is literally just the English version of the Steyr puch engine workshop manual and is not Model 70 specific so its entirely possible that Model 70 engines are tuned differently than what the workshop manual states, certainly later Model 70's got the Model 70 specific Weber 32ICS10T carb as apposed to the Weber 32ICS3 found on most 493cc Steyr puch vehicles of the time (and early Model 70's) 

and its said 19.3Hp was stated for Austrian tax reasons and the engines in actuality often produced more then that

 

 

only 2 Model 70's where ever knowingly fitted with 643cc engines, one was Prototype 8 which was ragged around a race track to test the CVT system to destruction

and the other was Derry Preston Cobs personal Model 70 TTW581K sadly Derry passed away while the work was being done so I dont know if the fitment was ever actually completed

but I bet they must have gone well!

personally im waiting for someone to fit a pair of these to a Model 70  https://prokschi.at/puch-500-500-s-von-bj-1968-1973/tuning/rundschaftkolben-und-zylinder.html

tis a 762cc big bore kit (sadly its not quite a drop in replacement like a 652cc 2CV kit, as if you have 493cc block it needs a bit of machining to fit them)

[Zelandeth]

From the manual regarding engine speeds.

Worth remembering though that these engines were used for industrial applications, so the "continuous output" may refer more to engines hooked to a governor and running at that speed for hours.

Seen a couple of videos of tuned 650s revving to around 8k, though who knows what mods have been done to the internals there though!

I wouldn't fancy sitting one at 70 for hours, all things considered.

[brownnova]

LBF… as you’ve said this is your long standing dream. You’ve reached out and grabbed it, which is brilliant. I have no doubt of your ability to do it, and I am in no doubt of your gratitude to the fella who has got Rev roadable. I love this story, it’s what AS is about. 

But… ensuring that Rev is safe and usable is priority. So I think i echo the sentiment that a classic friendly garage would be a good start. There wont be a garage who know Model 70s. But a good old school mechanic will find his way round the majority of jobs and with your knowledge I’m confident there will be someone out there who can tackle the work you need. Personally I’d be looking for a more backstreet old school place than a full on classic car place, but that’s just me. In my mind this really should be the next priority for you. 

For me the joy is in the driving not the fixing, get it safe so you can enjoy the drive. 

[PhilA]

29 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Seen a couple of videos of tuned 650s revving to around 8k, though who knows what mods have been done to the internals there though!

The crank is inherently balanced, so lightened pistons and rods.

The wonderfully convoluted pushrod system... Taking that lot out and weighing it would be interesting. It's designed to be compact and strong by looks of it, rather than lightweight.

Lighten that lot and I could see 8k out of one. Genuinely road useable torque at 8000? Unlikely. Race cam, larger valves, it would be a proper little screamer.

 

Phil

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, PhilA said:

The crank is inherently balanced, so lightened pistons and rods.

The wonderfully convoluted pushrod system... Taking that lot out and weighing it would be interesting. It's designed to be compact and strong by looks of it, rather than lightweight.

Lighten that lot and I could see 8k out of one. Genuinely road useable torque at 8000? Unlikely. Race cam, larger valves, it would be a proper little screamer.

 

Phil

you want this one then

 

Steyr Puch engine with the valve train from a KTM motorbike engine, producing a cool 185Hp at some 8250RPM...