invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

On 24/11/2022 at 22:19, brummiejon said:

Having some fun with the Stanley Argson at the moment…. The nearside rear wheel has a puncture and will not come off the taper and keyed shaft…. It’s not been fitted properly by a previous owner and is well and truly wedged (forced) on…… Tried some big pullers but they just bend the outer spoke flange and nothing moves, going to apply some heat tomorrow and see if that helps….. failing that I’m going to cut the spokes and remove the rim so I can get to the five bolts that fixes the outer spoke flange to the hub….. then the puller will be acting directly on the hub and not the pressed steel spoke flange….. lots of heat and brute force, then rebuild the wheel once the hub is released from the half shaft……

wish me luck

Happen to be talking to Stuart the other day and he mentioned a few of his findings doing battle with a similar issue on his Harding Model IV, in regards with regards to trying to assist with your Argson   his Harding is a completely different machine to an Argson, but also of the same time period/general style, so thought id quote what he said and found incase its of any use here!  

Quote

I do wonder if that argson is like my harding, one wheel had a threaded on collar which needed to be unscrewed like a nut
the freewheel side is just a spline on the axle & a big castle nut, the driven side is a cup & cone bearing with threaded collar & then the big castle nut
 

I pulled the freewheel side off as normal with the three-legg puller and two car jacks pushing against the drum edge cus the shoes were seized solid to the drum & was about to do same to the other side when I spotted there were castlelations visidible in all the grease etc when looking down into the hub on the axle (if that makes sence) & I had a poke & suddenly realised it was a castlated threaded collar!
if I'd tried just pulling it with the puller I'd either have bent the hub in half or ended up snapping off the end of the axle under umpteen tones of pull
 

I can't speak totally for how an argson is as I never had to take a wheel off one, but thats my findings with an electric harding!

I didn't realise it was a threaded collar at first cus it didn't look like anything to be unscrewed, but something made me tap anticlockwise on a castlecation with a drift & lo, it started turning

ah I remember, I first thought it was just a slip-on distance peice & then discovered it was fully threaded
 

hopefully something can be figured out for it one way or another  

[brummiejon]

Thanks for asking for me @LightBulbFun, the Argson is different in that both wheels are driven and are on identical tapered half shafts and secured with a woodruffe key and a big nut…. How do I know? Because I got it off today…. Hooray…

I had to dismantle the wheel on the axel, undid the spokes, dismantled the hub and spoke plates and as soon I was able to pull directly on the hub  with a puller it let go quite easily. Before I was just bending metal….. it didn’t have a woodruffe key and the securing nut had been overtightened because the brake drum didn’t cover the brake shoes…. Reason being that the brake hub is like a dish, it’s so warped inwards it didn’t reach the backplate and  completely cover the brake shoes….. so brake drum and front spoke plate are off to a mate to be straightened…… I need a toolmaker to make me a custom puller for next time (looks like a flywheel puller with a big thread (looks like 11/4 inch whitworth)…. Anyhow, when everything is straightened out, a new woodruffe  key and the wheel rebuilt I’ll be good to go…..

thanks for everybody's helpful suggestions

[brummiejon]

On 11/24/2022 at 10:23 PM, Mrs6C said:

If I remember correctly, spokes unscrew at one end. Cutting them shouldn't be needed?

@Mrs6C following your suggestion all of the spokes came undone without issue 

thanks for the reminder 

[Mrs6C]

8 minutes ago, brummiejon said:

all of the spokes came undone without issue 

Excellent! Glad you were able to dismantle everything successfully. Hope that the re-shaping goes OK and that everything goes back together more easily than it came undone!

[brummiejon]

1 minute ago, Mrs6C said:

Excellent! Glad you were able to dismantle everything successfully. Hope that the re-shaping goes OK and that everything goes back together more easily than it came undone!

Oh the joys of restoration…. My mind is at rest now I know what I’ve got and it’s actually quite straightforward from now on.

just got to get it registered now….

 

[LightBulbFun]

Anyone for an Invacar Mk12? found it while doing my usual internet sleuthing 

this ones most curious as I dont recognise it!

https://voorraad.autodatawheelerdelta.nl/invacar/3-wieler-microcar-1-persoons/occ17491016-f529c

 

 

for a Mk12 it looks to be in quite good shape, obviously not seen the road in many years, but the door and chassis plate is present! (shame theres no close up picture of that so I could ID it!)

the "B" Sticker in place of the number plate seems oddly familiar so ill have to rack my brain and archives to see if I have seen it before anywhere!

seems like its these chaps that are selling it, and indeed you will find it in their for sale section!

https://www.martinwillems.nl/

hopefully it can find a good home, @Harriytait maybe for the unfinished business you have with Mk12?s  

(as a side note, its interesting how the recovery truck its on has rear light units mounted to the rear cab roof, not seen that done before!)

[Mrs6C]

23 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

the "B" Sticker in place of the number plate seems oddly familiar

Lookks like it is a country sticker for Belgium.

24 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

(shame theres no close up picture of that so I could ID it!)

Why don't you email them and ask for the chassis number, so you can check your records and see if it is a known vehicle in the UK? As you keep a list of all the surviving Invacars, it's not an unreasonable request to make.

[Remspoor]

I too would enough you to email them if you want more information. 

The Beavertail/flatbed comes back as a Fiat ducato maxi year 2008. The lights at the rear of the cab are for when it is towing something. They are stored there. The rear lamps cannot be seen in the photos. The ramps are might not be fully in the storage position.

 

[LightBulbFun]

On 25/08/2021 at 23:33, Coprolalia said:

Hey LBF, I have that small stack of lamps and fittings for you we rescued out of my friend's old garage. They're safe in my garage, just wondering how to get them to you.

I'm in S Wales, and it's unlikely I'm heading east soon as we have a newborn. I suspect shitely or courier may be easiest?

 

 

 

On 27/08/2021 at 18:51, Coprolalia said:

Follow up with photos...

so @Coprolalia very kindly drop these off yesterday while he happened to be in the area!  

I am still sorting through things but I got all the tubes cleaned up and I even managed to hook up one of the fixtures

the 1960's Atlas Grey sided Popular pack, which needed nothing more than a duff starter holder replacing before it sprang into life, 50 years and kept in a damp garage for gawd knows how long, no problems!

even the test tube I selected worked! I did do some basic checks before applying mains of course, but I still was not going to put in one of the rare tubes just incase, it did develop a fault and eat the tube

so I selected the sad looking fairly modern Philips T8 from the bundle which I was pretty sure was at end of life based on the amount of end blackening and would just blink away, but nope fired up without a hitch!

sadly the Atlas Super 5 tube that is original to this fitting is either severally contaminated or outright gassed and thus non functional

but the Thorn T12 that was with one of the fixtures is another case of not holding out much hope but it fired up also without issue!

this one not only looked pretty worn on one end, but also has suffered typical thorn ring off on the etch end, (where a crack forms in the glass in a ring around the end) but luckily in this case it had not compromised the atmosphere of the tube! 

just 2 more tubes left to test and all the other fittings to assess, most sadly probably beyond saving, but will yield many useful bits and bobs  

I hoping at least the cursive etched Crompton 8ft 125W T12 works! but ill have to see if I can get the atlas twin super slim going or rig up a bare ballast test setup (as I dont actually have any 8ft fixtures otherwise!)

 

once again many thanks to @Coprolalia for saving, setting aside and delviring these fixtures and tubes for me, its very much appreciated  

[Datsuncog]

On 11/24/2022 at 2:49 PM, LightBulbFun said:

the Porthole car's real identity has finally had a fresh V5 issued! (the one with windows in the B pillars that was on eBay incorrectly wearing GIG4834's identity!)

this was a bit of a nerve wrecking one, because given the previous fun that was had with GIG I was worried the DVLA would be extra tetchy about things, but thankfully despite the scrap marker on TPG443M, it all went very smoothly  

 

Quote

Question I guess is now, will the guy actually be holding onto TPG443M like he said he would, or will it just go right back onto eBay? LOL

Did anyone place a bet?

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Datsuncog said:

 

Did anyone place a bet?

Oh quelle surprise! so shocked! much wow! LOL Stuarts probably laughing right about now while pouring himself a shot of Whisky  

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1375179456555185

the chap, said the person who bid it up to £7600 on ebay was supposedly the real deal so to speak, so I gotta wonder then, why has it not just been sold to that chap! 

 

to be fair, after he got the logbook, he did offer me a spare carburettor he had kicking about! which I do appreciate!

but as its a Weber 32ICS3 and not a 32ICS10/10T (And I still dont know what the exact difference is between those) and the fact that REV's carb woes have (I Think!) been solved

I told him to just hold onto it for himself for now and I do come unstuck again ill keep it in mind! (if it was a 32ICS10 or 10T I would of grabbed it just to have a spare on the shelf but being a 3 I dont want to keep parts that may or may not work, while I know that they may end up being needed by something they do work with)

 

but yeah im not surprised in the slightest thats its just gone right back up for sale once he got the logbook for it,

but hey ho, at least I have been able to ID the port hole car at long last after it showed up first in 2009! and reunite GIG with its ID and Logbook as well  (and also just in general finally figure out the whole mystery of GIG, why it had 2 stories its the D701SWL of Model 70's almost)

 

speaking of, on the carburettor front Adam got about a box of carbs from the hammond lot, and interestingly, as well as the usual 3's and 10T's in there there where a couple  32ICS10 no suffix's carbs in there, I had no idea that those where used on the Model 70, 

so thats another thing for the list to research  (just incase those 2 non Suffix carbs happened to come from some other steyr puch vehicle like a 500DL)

[D.E]

22 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

Anyone for an Invacar Mk12? found it while doing my usual internet sleuthing 

this ones most curious as I dont recognise it!

https://voorraad.autodatawheelerdelta.nl/invacar/3-wieler-microcar-1-persoons/occ17491016-f529c

 

 

for a Mk12 it looks to be in quite good shape, obviously not seen the road in many years, but the door and chassis plate is present! (shame theres no close up picture of that so I could ID it!)

the "B" Sticker in place of the number plate seems oddly familiar so ill have to rack my brain and archives to see if I have seen it before anywhere!

seems like its these chaps that are selling it, and indeed you will find it in their for sale section!

https://www.martinwillems.nl/

hopefully it can find a good home, @Harriytait maybe for the unfinished business you have with Mk12?s  

(as a side note, its interesting how the recovery truck its on has rear light units mounted to the rear cab roof, not seen that done before!)

I wonder if someone traded that in. Martin Willems is a well known Italian marques specialist (especially Lancia), a three wheeler from Belgium isn't the kind of thing they would normally be interested in I think.

Anyway, amazing find! I was considering a Trabant or something like that for my fifth car, but if that is still there by next year I might consider it...

[adw1977]

On 07/09/2020 at 12:34, LightBulbFun said:

as a side note to all this DVLA bashing I notice that the DVLA are getting to the end of the BFxxxx registration series which is the series they issue as age related plates to vehicles from before 1931

currently last one issued at time of posting is BF9306, and im curious what they will do when they run out!

the only 2 digit registration not issued in England AFAIK is the (funnily enough) Essex marker, WC, (it was only ever issued BWC-YWC. AWC, UWC and WC where never issued I guess because water closet, BF was never issued at the time because it stood for bloody fool)

What did happen with this?  I see BF9998 was issued on 25th November 2022, presumably BF9999 would be held back to be sold at a premium, so what series are they now using for pre-1931 vehicles?

[LightBulbFun]

21 hours ago, Mrs6C said:

Lookks like it is a country sticker for Belgium.

 

6 minutes ago, D.E said:

a three wheeler from Belgium isn't the kind of thing they would normally be interested in I think.

thats the thing I dont think it came from Belgium I have the odd feeling that although as said thats a country sticker for Belgium, someone may of stuck that on there for "British" either just for that or not knowing our actual country sticker is GB (or well UK now!)

it seems oddly familiar but I did a quick check of my photo archives and I cant find anything there... 

24 minutes ago, D.E said:

Anyway, amazing find! I was considering a Trabant or something like that for my fifth car, but if that is still there by next year I might consider it...

now those are words I like to hear!  

 

[Mrs6C]

I like the little hand throttle attachment for the handlebars. IIRC my non-Invacar but Villiers-powered three-wheeler has one of those...

[LightBulbFun]

11 minutes ago, adw1977 said:

What did happen with this?  I see BF9998 was issued on 25th November 2022, presumably BF9999 would be held back to be sold at a premium, so what series are they now using for pre-1931 vehicles?

yeah I have been wondering! looks like as I predicted they have started to issue WCxxxx from WC1001  

I wonder if this being an Essex mark, has anything to do with xxx XVW being erroneously issued 

(curious that they did indeed do from 1001, because BFxxxx is only issued from 4001, maybe with that series the DVLA was not sure what was and was not issued before then? (tho as I understand it, BFxxxx although issued in period was quickly withdrawn and those vehicles where given other marks)

[adw1977]

Will these WCxxxx plates be non-transferable, or are they liable to end up on plumbers' vans soon?

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, adw1977 said:

Will these WCxxxx plates be non-transferable, or are they liable to end up on plumbers' vans soon?

haha, they will or should i say, Should be non transferable, being an prefix/suffix-less age related plate they are always meant to be marked non transferable

but said non- transferability is just a check box, so if the DVLA clerk forgets to check that box and thus if you see there is no "Non transferable registration mark" special note, then yeah you would be able to help yourself to it!

and I have seen it happen a few times!

 

I do wonder now of course what will happen when we hit the end of WCxxxx as at that point we really will be out of 2 letter 4 number marks to issue!

[Richard_FM]

Are all the Scottish AB1234 registrations originally allocated to the smaller counties used up?  I've seen a lot of BS & DS ones.

[uk_senator]

I just remembered, I saw & saved this picture back in August for you guys (docu on youtube). Its a brief sighting, as that's literally it, but still, I thought you`d like seeing it in its natural habitat!

[barrett]

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

haha, they will or should i say, Should be non transferable, being an prefix/suffix-less age related plate they are always meant to be marked non transferable

but said non- transferability is just a check box, so if the DVLA clerk forgets to check that box and thus if you see there is no "Non transferable registration mark" special note, then yeah you would be able to help yourself to it!

and I have seen it happen a few times!

 

I do wonder now of course what will happen when we hit the end of WCxxxx as at that point we really will be out of 2 letter 4 number marks to issue!

Did we use all the IoW (DL) plates in period? I can't imagine so, they might be next

[LightBulbFun]

5 hours ago, Richard_FM said:

Are all the Scottish AB1234 registrations originally allocated to the smaller counties used up?  I've seen a lot of BS & DS ones.

good question! I thought pretty much all of those have been issued, however I knew that fittingly enough AS  of Nairn CC issue, had been in issue until suffix plates where made mandatory

On 07/09/2020 at 17:16, LightBulbFun said:

I THINK all those have already been used up AFAIK LOL

 EL1000-1500, DS6574+, SL9737+ BS8000+ SV4001+ and BF are all the pre 1931 age related marks  I know of issued or currently being issued

perhaps there are some more small scottish areas that never finished issuing all their original allocation of 2 letter 4 number plates? 

I know for example ASxxxx was issued right to December 1964, but I dont know if they happened to use all of them up or not

(they never issued any AAAxxx plates jumping to AAS-C when in 1965 the Ministry forced everyone onto suffix plates so perhaps after BFxxxx runs out we will see some ASxxxx plates issued? LOL)

but I did not know if they had to run to completion or not, so I have been meaning to check how far along they got

and indeed they only issued up to AS4097, and indeed checking the DVLA plate auction history shows that they have sold some of the ones above that mark, so we could see ASxxxx get issued after WCxxxx  runs out! 

and while I was checking for that I also noticed that Zetland CC only got to PS 4080 and Selkirk CC only got to LS 9583, so we could see those left over marks issued

I am a bit curious as to why they had not been issued yet when they where doing the left over Scottish marks like as you say, the remaing DS, SL, BS, and SV xxxx marks where all issued years ago

4 hours ago, barrett said:

Did we use all the IoW (DL) plates in period? I can't imagine so, they might be next

DLxxxx was issued to completion by October 1935, so I dont think those will be issued unless the DVLA fuck up again LOL

[LightBulbFun]

On 29/11/2022 at 00:17, LightBulbFun said:

hah thats a fun one! often times these late registration madness are the results of someone at the DVLA fucking up when issuing a replacement and or age related plate, to replace a plate thats just been taken off the vehicles

often times you will see them accidentally issue a plate based on the date of first registration rather then the year of manufacture,

amusingly looks like the DVLA are still doing that! 

this caught my eye while I was seeing how far along WCxxxx had already gotten too, so I decided to check it out in further detail (it was a 1930 bike, first computerised with the DVLA in 1978, with the original Date of first registration having gone AWOL, so I thought ooh bit this one has an interesting history, and indeed it does!

 

as you may think 776FUF is not a very 1930 plate, and indeed it is not! as this is a rare example of a county council issue age related (Ish!) plate! from either someone transferring off its original registration mark in the mid 60's to mid 70's (xxxFUF was never issued in period)

or it could even be one of the very rare post DVLC, County council issue marks

as even after the DVLC computerised in October 1974, although all new vehicle registrations where done on the V5 scheme with shiny new DVLC VLO's

if you had something properly old, depending on the situation you would still go to your County Council to register it, who would a select a an un-used mark from their own register, write it up into a buff logbook, and then give you said buff logbook and a V55 to send off to the DVLC right away! 

a long time ago, someone posted an old 1920's or 1930's  Vauxhall in the ebay tat thread where this had been done but nothing had ever been posted off, it was quite fun seeing a V55 form from the 1970's! I really wish I had saved the ebay listing photos to further study!

Im wondering if they they did it this way at first, as that point in time Im wondering if the register of marks had not yet been transferred  to the DVLC yet so they could not directly issue age related marks as they would not know what had and had not already been issued

 

[High Jetter]

18 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

as you may think 776FUF is not a very 1930 plate, and indeed it is not! as this is a rare example of a county council issue age related (Ish!) plate! from either someone transferring off its original registration mark in the mid 60's to mid 70's (xxxFUF was never issued in period)

Sorry, is xxxxUF rare or not? Brighton reg?

[LightBulbFun]

7 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Sorry, is xxxxUF rare or not? Brighton reg?

the location marker UF is, but xxxFUF was never issued in period, it will have of only been issued by Brighton CC as a replacement mark (xxxEUF was as far as it got before going to AUFxxxB )

[High Jetter]

Ah, ok, so PUF was only a prefix, never a suffix. The dragon's gone, anyway...

[LightBulbFun]

25 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Ah, ok, so PUF was only a prefix, never a suffix. The dragon's gone, anyway...

no, PUF was issued as suffix series, in period, for example  PUF-H, and PUF-M and so for forth...

however before suffix's and prefix's it was never issued as xxxPUF reverse 3 digit 3 letter format, only PUFxxx as a 3 letter 3 digit series was issued, before suffix plates came to be

[AdgeCutler]

On 11/30/2022 at 4:50 PM, LightBulbFun said:

Anyone for an Invacar Mk12? found it while doing my usual internet sleuthing 

this ones most curious as I dont recognise it!

https://voorraad.autodatawheelerdelta.nl/invacar/3-wieler-microcar-1-persoons/occ17491016-f529c

 

 

for a Mk12 it looks to be in quite good shape, obviously not seen the road in many years, but the door and chassis plate is present! (shame theres no close up picture of that so I could ID it!)

the "B" Sticker in place of the number plate seems oddly familiar so ill have to rack my brain and archives to see if I have seen it before anywhere!

seems like its these chaps that are selling it, and indeed you will find it in their for sale section!

https://www.martinwillems.nl/

hopefully it can find a good home, @Harriytait maybe for the unfinished business you have with Mk12?s  

(as a side note, its interesting how the recovery truck its on has rear light units mounted to the rear cab roof, not seen that done before!)

Wow, that one looks in great shape, if only I had known and had waited a couple of years! An easy project for someone. It also looks as though we now know exactly where the fire extinguisher should be mounted, looks like the clamp there behind the drivers left shoulder. It also must have spent the best part of its life undercover, I think it's the first InvaCar badge I've seen that hasn't faded away.

 

[brummiejon]

20 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

yeah I have been wondering! looks like as I predicted they have started to issue WCxxxx from WC1001  

I wonder if this being an Essex mark, has anything to do with xxx XVW being erroneously issued 

(curious that they did indeed do from 1001, because BFxxxx is only issued from 4001, maybe with that series the DVLA was not sure what was and was not issued before then? (tho as I understand it, BFxxxx although issued in period was quickly withdrawn and those vehicles where given other marks)

Four litre 😲, surely that's an error

[LightBulbFun]

39 minutes ago, brummiejon said:

Four litre 😲, surely that's an error

seems accurate to me!  https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1446529

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartercar

some of these early, car engines, got quite large!

(and im not just posting it because there is a Model 70 and a Tippen Delta hiding in the background in one of the scenes!)