invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

7 hours ago, AdgeCutler said:

 

I've now made a start on fibreglass repairs. Firstly I backed the area of damage (below engine compartment lid), this was done with random odment I found lying around including a piece of Perspex, wood and a piece of 3/4" steel conduit. These were all then screwed in place and then removed and I made my mistake of using a piece of plastic poultry feed bag to back it up and refitted the shuttering. Seems obvious now but the bag "pickled" and slightly raised the resin/fibres. It's not the end of the world and the area will be re-worked to  achieve a better final finish and I had something to work against this morning with the shuttering removed and strengthened up the backside. It was the first time I've had a go at fibreglass repair and it all went pretty well in general and I learn a couple of lessons including the fact that dawdlers will not be tolerated by the resin! Hopefully I'll have chance in the next few days to make good the job.

Very awesome

its looking very good already!

I am looking forward to seeing how you get on with the rest of the bodywork etc  

 

[AdgeCutler]

Managed a couple more jobs during the rain. New tubular inserts for the new chassis were turned on the lathe, these are to give strength to the rear outriggers and have the suspension bracket bolts pass through them. Also two similar items were turned which pass through the rear of the central spar and again are mounting point strengtheners , this time for the engine cradle. The front mounting point for the forward body panel was too corroded at the threaded end to be considered re-usable, despite heat cycling threads were still not good enough once the nuts were removed and so a new end section was turned to size, threaded and then formed to the correct bend, this was then weld spliced onto the existing mounting rod. 

Here's a picture of some of the bits coming together alongside the new and old engine cradle mounts. 

[LightBulbFun]

had another driving lesson today  

managed to finagle a better seating position, but the clutch is just that bit heavier and really does knacker my lower muscles and give me some quite severe pains, (which then lead to some unpleasant spasms) 

on the plus side it is encouraging me to use the hand brake more at traffic lights, something I usually neglect to do as I am never sure how long I am stopped for, so always just clutch in and hold the car on the foot brake

and heres a picture of "new" car

as above and on a previous post, it drives well and is nice and encouraging, but by heck do the ergonomics cripple me

but otherwise the lesson went well, and we made good progress through traffic once more so I was able to do a couple more manovours again, this time pulling up on the right, 

 

also in LightBulb news, these just showed up , a whole bundle of GE General Electric 1500W MBIL Metal halide lamps

http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Spec Sheets/D MHQ Thorn MBIL1500.htm

Got 9 for £25 which is not bad going when they are about £85 a pop from a normal wholesaler  

(only 8 are shown as frustratingly my cat broke the end off one while trying and failing to jump in/squeeze himself into the outer box they came in!)

 

I just need to get a suitable fixture then I should be able to light one up  (they are the same length etc as a 1500W Halogen lamp, so I just need to find a 1500W halogen flood light, should hopefully not be too tricky to do as they do pop up on ebay from time to time)

but yeah very pleased, I dont need 8 but for the price I could not turn em down, hopefully I can exchange the surplus lamps with fellow collectors for other lamps I wish to add to my collection  

[Eyersey1234]

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1934050&i=999999

@LightBulbFun this thread on pistonheads night interest you

[AdgeCutler]

I've now had a couple of requests for details on where I sourced the anti vibration mounts for Brians engine cradle and so thought I'd share it here in case it may be of use to others. The company I used are AV industrial products ( https://www.avindustrialproducts.co.uk/products) who supply a comprehensive range of mounts. Note, I measured up and found mounts that are identical in dimension to the originals but I did take a bit of a stab at the load ratings as I didn't have this information for the originals. The ones I ordered are  CM379-HT60DC for the single cone mount and RSM406-50L for the sandwich mounts. A washer for the cone is W379-BF, if your original is good I would re-use it as the replacement isn't pressed as the original is (sadly mine was half rotten). 

 

[MT606]

with all this dealings with the DVLA, do you know if when sending things into them via royal mail , are the addresses free post ? 

[LightBulbFun]

6 hours ago, AdgeCutler said:

I've now had a couple of requests for details on where I sourced the anti vibration mounts for Brians engine cradle and so thought I'd share it here in case it may be of use to others. The company I used are AV industrial products ( https://www.avindustrialproducts.co.uk/products) who supply a comprehensive range of mounts. Note, I measured up and found mounts that are identical in dimension to the originals but I did take a bit of a stab at the load ratings as I didn't have this information for the originals. The ones I ordered are  CM379-HT60DC for the single cone mount and RSM406-50L for the sandwich mounts. A washer for the cone is W379-BF, if your original is good I would re-use it as the replacement isn't pressed as the original is (sadly mine was half rotten). 

 

Oh cool I was wondering about that!

the Model 70's uses some fairly similar looking rubber mounts in its engine/gearbox mounting arrangement as well

so I wonder if they have anything suitable for the Model 70 as well, its good to know who does what  

1 hour ago, MT606 said:

with all this dealings with the DVLA, do you know if when sending things into them via royal mail , are the addresses free post ? 

no they are not free post I dont think

(a quick google says they are not)

[OldBlokeInACaravan]

Has anyone seen this on Facebook Marketplace?

£1850 PLUS £150 for A spare engine.... basically an incomplete Invacar probably with a rotten chassis and false plates, carriage and box of bits....

Is it me? Or 'just because it's old' yes, it's reasonably rare, yes, but there's very very little demand (from the general populous) it Is just NOT WORTH this sort of money !! for what is in effect, Rare or not, a pile of scrap......

this is why rare stuff like this does gets scrapped because of owners unrealistic expectations! rather than ask a reasonable price.

rant over.... That's better!!

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, OldBlokeInACaravan said:

Has anyone seen this on Facebook Marketplace?

£1850 PLUS £150 for A spare engine.... basically an incomplete Invacar probably with a rotten chassis and false plates, carriage and box of bits....

Is it me? Or 'just because it's old' yes, it's reasonably rare, yes, but there's very very little demand (from the general populous) it Is just NOT WORTH this sort of money !! for what is in effect, Rare or not, a pile of scrap......

this is why rare stuff like this does gets scrapped because of owners unrealistic expectations! rather than ask a reasonable price.

rant over.... That's better!!

indeed I have on page 202  

its being sold by Big al and he was a professional microcar dealer back in the day

so overpricing and sugar coating things is pretty much his job sadly

im just glad it is up for sale now and can hopefully find a good home! (as they have been floating around his back yard for a good few years now)

It does have a chassis plate and a known registration number which is more then a lot of Mk12's have sadly

 

I try not to get hung up on the money aspect of it to much 

as im in it for the invacars, not the money, the whole money aspect is just a nuisance in my view constantly getting in the way of things!

but I will say on that note I do think its a shame how prices are getting more and more expensive, and people over pricing things like the above not helping as it then encourages others to price their vehicles the same etc

which then puts the vehicles further out of reach of genuine enthusiasts etc 

 

 

[bobdisk]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

I try not to get hung up on the money aspect of it to much 

as im in it for the invacars, not the money, the whole money aspect is just a nuisance in my view constantly getting in the way of things!

but I will say on that note I do think its a shame how prices are getting more and more expensive, and people over pricing things like the above not helping as it then encourages others to price their vehicles the same etc

which then puts the vehicles further out of reach of genuine enthusiasts etc 

Wholeheartedly agree, microcars of all sorts are getting silly silly prices now. I recall the Bond Bug that recently sold at auction for £28,000  yes 28 thousand!!  I have almost given up looking for a Model 70 for a reasonable price considering condition. 

[OldBlokeInACaravan]

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

indeed I have on page 202  

its being sold by Big al and he was a professional microcar dealer back in the day

so overpricing and sugar coating things is pretty much his job sadly

im just glad it is up for sale now and can hopefully find a good home! (as they have been floating around his back yard for a good few years now)

It does have a chassis plate and a known registration number which is more then a lot of Mk12's have sadly

 

I try not to get hung up on the money aspect of it to much 

as im in it for the invacars, not the money, the whole money aspect is just a nuisance in my view constantly getting in the way of things!

but I will say on that note I do think its a shame how prices are getting more and more expensive, and people over pricing things like the above not helping as it then encourages others to price their vehicles the same etc

which then puts the vehicles further out of reach of genuine enthusiasts etc 

 

 

This is the thing, I commend him for saving them, and selling them on, but there's a big difference between making a profit and having someone's eyes out!  Most genuine enthusiasts don't expect to make a profit as such but would like to cover their costs if they decide to sell on once either restored or improved....to reinvest into another project.... But when you're charging more for a box of bits than the restored version!!!

[MT606]

22 hours ago, bobdisk said:

Wholeheartedly agree, microcars of all sorts are getting silly silly prices now. I recall the Bond Bug that recently sold at auction for £28,000  yes 28 thousand!!  I have almost given up looking for a Model 70 for a reasonable price considering condition. 

ditto.......

[AdgeCutler]

As always, it is worth what the buyer is prepared to pay. Also pricing high will drive away time wasters, the seller can be bargained with and is actually quite keen to see the cars go to the correct person. 

As for turning a profit, I do find that quite sad within a hobby of preservation. All of my projects over the years would be a dead loss in that aspect if my many hours were accounted for but they shall live on and I shall smile. 

[st185cs]

8 hours ago, AdgeCutler said:

the seller can be bargained with and is actually quite keen to see the cars go to the correct person. 

I was, as Dez knows, seriously considering approaching the seller to see if some sort of deal was possible - maybe with a part-ex in the mix....  until I saw this:-

On 5/26/2021 at 8:25 PM, OldBlokeInACaravan said:

But when you're charging more for a box of bits than the restored version!!!

Now I want to see this restored version. Does anyone know if it’s still available/where one can be had for this sort of money pls?

[LightBulbFun]

4 hours ago, st185cs said:

I was, as Dez knows, seriously considering approaching the seller to see if some sort of deal was possible - maybe with a part-ex in the mix....  until I saw this:-

Now I want to see this restored version. Does anyone know if it’s still available/where one can be had for this sort of money pls?

I was wondering that myself

but I think its meant as an expression rather then a comparison to an actual restored/nice Mk12 that is for sale somewhere

I have certainly not heard of any going up for sale recently

(the closest nice Invacar Mk12's I know of that might end up for sale at some point are KWC896J and PEV627D)

well im not sure if the ex English private example in South Africa ever sold, so that might still be available but thats a little far away for most I think LOL

 

[sdkrc]

Saw NPM934R in the Ipswich stadium in a 1982 documentary on football league bankruptcy. Doesn't look like it's survived after a cursory mot-check

[LightBulbFun]

12 minutes ago, sdkrc said:

Saw NPM934R in the Ipswich stadium in a 1982 documentary on football league bankruptcy. Doesn't look like it's survived after a cursory mot-check

Oh cool thats not a shot I have seen before, nice find!

thanks for shearing  

indeed sadly its not a known survivor but NPM938R just a few cars later is  

[OldBlokeInACaravan]

On 5/28/2021 at 6:43 AM, st185cs said:

I was, as Dez knows, seriously considering approaching the seller to see if some sort of deal was possible - maybe with a part-ex in the mix....  until I saw this:-

Now I want to see this restored version. Does anyone know if it’s still available/where one can be had for this sort of money pls?

Typo on my part, saying 'THE' there is no restored version, I mean 'A' restored version,  for reasons I've already mentioned, £2k for a 'at best ' a parts car, and boxes of bits, most likely with a rotted out chassis (his cars are stood on grass, uncovered)  pricing high (overpricing) may keep away timewasters, allegedly, but at the same time the minute the seller mentioned he rescued them, particularly as a job lot anyone savvy as a potential buyer with a brain cell would know that 'Mark up murder' was coming into play....... 

[plasticvandan]

As they were sat in a hedge for 40 years Im.surprised they are in as good a nick as they are,and likewise,hardly much point covering them up really!

[st185cs]

3 hours ago, OldBlokeInACaravan said:

Typo on my part, saying 'THE' there is no restored version, I mean 'A' restored version,  for reasons I've already mentioned, £2k for a 'at best ' a parts car, and boxes of bits, most likely with a rotted out chassis (his cars are stood on grass, uncovered)  pricing high (overpricing) may keep away timewasters, allegedly, but at the same time the minute the seller mentioned he rescued them, particularly as a job lot anyone savvy as a potential buyer with a brain cell would know that 'Mark up murder' was coming into play....... 

Thanks for clearing that up, guessed as much. And for emphasising your earlier point. Yep, ‘Mark up murder’ - I get that too and have a choice on whether to participate in such a deal - even with just one half of said cell (can one have half a brain cell?????). 

[AdgeCutler]

The only way to know whether you'd be happy with a deal with Alan would be to speak with him and see where that ends. When I negotiated for "Brian" I spoke with Alan and we negotiated a deal that was at a much happier place for myself than the starting point was. That being said, my car is/was in a much worse state than the one currently up for grabs and he may not be prepared to move quite so far?

Back to the subject of Brian the Invacar, I've now spent a couple of days Fibreglassing and preparing the rear body section and feel I'm nearing a point where it is acceptable. Another few hours should see it reinforced internally around the repairs and a few other stress points and then in primer.

Here are a pictures taken along the way and up until I wound up for the day today.

[Weird Car]

On 5/29/2021 at 6:52 PM, AdgeCutler said:

The only way to know whether you'd be happy with a deal with Alan would be to speak with him and see where that ends. When I negotiated for "Brian" I spoke with Alan and we negotiated a deal that was at a much happier place for myself than the starting point was. That being said, my car is/was in a much worse state than the one currently up for grabs and he may not be prepared to move quite so far?

Back to the subject of Brian the Invacar, I've now spent a couple of days Fibreglassing and preparing the rear body section and feel I'm nearing a point where it is acceptable. Another few hours should see it reinforced internally around the repairs and a few other stress points and then in primer.

Here are a pictures taken along the way and up until I wound up for the day today.

You're doing so well, I went to see big Al on saterday and saw my first complete mk12 and it's been a kick in the ass to start working on MPU, a start would be arranging a time to collect her back panel, would it possible to pm you on Facebook to arrange that please? Also spotted this beautiful Harding Invalid Carriage at Jaguar heritage on the same day that some may enjoy!

[eifion]

You're famous*, @LightBulbFun! At least to the extent of having a picture of REV in the new Citroen Car Club magazine.

[LightBulbFun]

On 29/05/2021 at 18:52, AdgeCutler said:

Back to the subject of Brian the Invacar, I've now spent a couple of days Fibreglassing and preparing the rear body section and feel I'm nearing a point where it is acceptable. Another few hours should see it reinforced internally around the repairs and a few other stress points and then in primer.

Here are a pictures taken along the way and up until I wound up for the day today.

very awesome to see work on Brian continue, its looking very good already!

 its very interesting to see the underside of the rear bodywork 

its quite an intricate moulding all things considered (keeping in mind the design going back to 1960) I wonder how it was laid up and put together

 

On 01/06/2021 at 14:50, eifion said:

You're famous*, @LightBulbFun! At least to the extent of having a picture of REV in the new Citroen Car Club magazine.

hah thats Awesome!  

although I bet all the shitters who got that magazine probably let out a collective sigh as they turned a page and was greeted with Invacars, given my reputation for managing to work them into everything LOL

(am really wishing REV was cleaned now, before the photo was taken LOL)

 

as a side note I cant help myself but just quickly mention that the Model 70 does not get its name from any year, the First Prototype Model 70's where on the Road by 1967 (Prototype 5) they just had a very long gestation and testing period, and only finally entered production in June 1971 (however there where 20 User trial cars in 1970, which did just become part of the main the fleet once production started, much like the how the 24 Prototype Routemaster RMLs just joined the 500 production Routemaster RMLs)

the Model 69E for example is the Electric Tippen Delta, which was introduced in about 1965-1966

and you had the Model 66, the Invacar Mk12 which was introduced in 1960

its just a bit of a coincidence that the Model 57 (Metal AC Acedes) and Model 67 (Fibreglass AC Acedes) where introduced in 1957 and 1967 respectively, and that its mainly AC machines that are referred to by their Ministry name rather then manufacturing name

so a lot of people think that the Model 70 gets its name from a year when it does not

 

[Eyersey1234]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned on the thread but how far could a Model 70 travel on a tank of petrol and how big is the fuel tank? 

[LightBulbFun]

35 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

Apologies if this has already been mentioned on the thread but how far could a Model 70 travel on a tank of petrol and how big is the fuel tank? 

they have a 20L/4.5 Gallon tank (literally the size and shape of a Jerry can LOL)

range can vary depending on the traffic/road conditions/setup

@dollywobbler managed about 200 miles cruising in TWC down motorways/dual carriageways so about 50Mpg but only got about 35Mpg running around London

and likewise I think @Zelandeth only gets about 35Mpg from TPA because of MK's 0-70Mph-0 roundabouts everywhere nature

[Dick Longbridge]

Had this one yet LBF? Not much to go on, but even so. 

[Eyersey1234]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

they have a 20L/4.5 Gallon tank (literally the size and shape of a Jerry can LOL)

range can vary depending on the traffic/road conditions/setup

@dollywobbler managed about 200 miles cruising in TWC down motorways/dual carriageways so about 50Mpg but only got about 35Mpg running around London

and likewise I think @Zelandeth only gets about 35Mpg from TPA because of MK's 0-70Mph-0 roundabouts everywhere nature

Thanks LBF

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Had this one yet LBF? Not much to go on, but even so. 

indeed I have tho I dont think I have shared it in this thread because as you say theres not much in it

but I can at least tell from the photograph or well I can in this full rez version I have  

https://flic.kr/p/22GyyMx

that it is an AC Model 70 Mark B from Before March 1976 (so its from July 1974-March 1976) which amusingly still has its running in sticker on the windscreen

I appreciate the heads up still tho  

 

speaking of Model 70 Mark B's and Fuel tanks

Adam has continued to work on KPL and has her "new" engine in lovely shape now (it will be interesting to see how well the black paint on the exhaust holds LOL)

and he is now looking at fuel tank options  

will be interesting to see if the Jerry can idea does work/fit  

[Eyersey1234]

33 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

indeed I have tho I dont think I have shared it in this thread because as you say theres not much in it

but I can at least tell from the photograph or well I can in this full rez version I have  

https://flic.kr/p/22GyyMx

that it is an AC Model 70 Mark B from Before March 1976 (so its from July 1974-March 1976) which amusingly still has its running in sticker on the windscreen

I appreciate the heads up still tho  

 

speaking of Model 70 Mark B's and Fuel tanks

Adam has continued to work on KPL and has her "new" engine in lovely shape now (it will be interesting to see how well the black paint on the exhaust holds LOL)

and he is now looking at fuel tank options  

will be interesting to see if the Jerry can idea does work/fit  

How can you tell its from before March 1976?