invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[keef]

Here's the latest joke from DVLA. :-

 

 

Now we know anything not taxed for some years doesn't have to be SORNed,

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: RE: Your ref. V212
From:    "Rohan Gye" 
Date:    Fri, April 13, 2018 3:00 pm
To:      Hk11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for your recent email.

It may help if I first explain that the Statutory off Road Notification (SORN) scheme was introduced on 31st January 1998 and applies to vehicles where a vehicle tax was in force on or after that date.  

The registered keeper of a vehicle is required by law to notify DVLA if he/she does not re-tax the vehicle and is taking the vehicle off the public road.  As a result of the Road Transport Red Tape Challenge, the legislation affecting SORN was changed from 16 December 2013.  The new legislation means that once the registered keeper of the vehicle has notified DVLA that their vehicle is on a SORN declaration, they will no longer have to renew their SORN annually. Any SORN declaration which expired after the 16 December 2013 was made indefinite and the customer will not receive any future V11 Renewal reminders. 

Since changes to the abolition of the tax disc and the non-transferability rules which were introduced in October 2010 DVLA noticed that a number of Vehicles were becoming unlicensed due to a lack of understanding around the new rules. Therefore we identified a need to notify customers of these changes when they became a registered keeper of a new vehicle. This is the V212 letter you received.

We apologise that as a new keeper, you received the new keeper letter V212 in error. This shouldn't have been sent due to the fact that your vehicle hasn't been licensed since 1998 when the SORN rules came into effect.  We appreciate that you have tried to notify that your vehicle is off the road (SORN), however you are not required to take any action by law for any vehicle that has not been taxed since January 1998. You may ignore the letter as this doesn't apply to your circumstances.  

In future should you decide to drive the vehicle on road, then clearly you will need to tax the vehicle. If you then decide to take it off the road again, then a SORN will be needed at the time the tax is not renewed/no longer needed.

I trust this clarifies the matter.

Rohan Gye
Vehicles Service Manager 
DVLA | D14 | Longview Road | Morriston| Swansea | SA6 7JL
Twitter: @dvlagovuk

 

We can always spot an untaxed car. 
Tax it or lose it.  Go to www.gov.uk/vehicletax

but I always SORN them just in case DVLA change their own rules and don't tell anyone, so.

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Confirmation of Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN)
From:    "DVLA Electronic Vehicle Licensing"
<donotreply.evl@dvla.gsi.gov.uk>
Date:    Mon, March 4, 2019 3:35 pm
To:      hk11@xxxxxxx.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED EMAIL - PLEASE DO NOT REPLY AS EMAILS
RECEIVED AT THIS ADDRESS CANNOT BE RESPONDED TO.

Confirmation of Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN)

Thank you for using DVLA Vehicle Licensing Online.
Your SORN has been successful.

The SORN will be valid until you tax, sell, permanently export or scrap
the vehicle.

Any refund of vehicle tax due will be automatically issued to the name and
address on our records.  If you pay by Direct Debit your Direct Debit will
be cancelled.

Vehicle Registration Number: BTY 875V
Reference Number: 9185 2575 5614 2754
Application Made On: 04/03/2019 14:35:29

You may wish to save or print this email confirmation for your records.

[keef]

Then :-

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/historic-classic-vehicles-mot-exemption-criteria/historic-classic-vehicles-mot-exemption-criteria

and yet :-

 

[Mrs6C]

15 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

bonus DVLA *****ry too

Did you manage to find any details for RVX334K? I see it doesn't show up on the DVLA vehicle check site.

[keef]

49 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Did you manage to find any details for RVX334K? I see it doesn't show up on the DVLA vehicle check site.

I think that is why LBF made the comments he did. i.e. 344 rather than 334.

[Zelandeth]

You'll need to complete the V112 first I believe.  Until that's input into the system it will keep asking for an MOT.  Likewise the tax class needs changing from PLG to Historic...which you need to do at a Post Office.  Both of these things can be done together.

[LightBulbFun]

6 hours ago, keef said:

Now we know anything not taxed for some years doesn't have to be SORNed,

yeah we established that pretty quickly when @egg's Invacar Mk12 was happening  

(and also via @Slowsilver's renault 6 etc)

but its good to see it in DVLA writing!

4 hours ago, Mrs6C said:

Did you manage to find any details for RVX334K? I see it doesn't show up on the DVLA vehicle check site.

ah my bad I misread the registration RVX334K as RVX344K! 

sadly I cant find anything on that registration, but it does help us narrow down when that picture was taken!

sometime between 1972-1980 or thereabouts, (since any later and it would still show up!) going by the general feel of the photo, the cars, and the fact the Model 70 still has its wheel trims, I want to say yeah its an early 1970's photo from when that Model 70 was new or pretty close to it  

(I have noticed that 12 inch wheeled Model 70's generally lost their wheel trims pretty quickly for some reason)

its interesting to note that although the Model 70 section of the spare parts manual makes no mention of wheel trims,

I do notice for the villers machines almost all mention of them is crossed out in each machines respective "wheels" section

I wonder if the Ministry had a policy of removing wheel trims from a certain date or not, or if they just simply longer issued them as spare parts, so it was harder to get replacements

(I do know most 10 inch Model 70's retained their wheel trims till the end, so I dont think there was a policy per say unless it applied only to 12 inch cars? the 10 inch wheel trims where/are just Mini items so would be much easier to get ahold of I imagine)

[steveo3002]

i robbed the pic off facebook...poster says its 1975 , saffron walden essex

[LightBulbFun]

4 minutes ago, steveo3002 said:

i robbed the pic off facebook...poster says its 1975 , saffron walden essex

Woo not far off, it would have been 3 years old at the time  

[keef]

4 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

You'll need to complete the V112 first I believe.  Until that's input into the system it will keep asking for an MOT.  Likewise the tax class needs changing from PLG to Historic...which you need to do at a Post Office.  Both of these things can be done together.

Yes, I know what has to be done, but my point is DVLA site doesn't say this, it just tells you as per my screen shots.

The Post Office don't seem to be concerned with forms these days as my last PLG to Historic just hapoened. The V5 was amended and sent to DVLA (who knows when or even if it will be returned  )

[keef]

4 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

You'll need to complete the V112 first I believe.  Until that's input into the system it will keep asking for an MOT.  Likewise the tax class needs changing from PLG to Historic...which you need to do at a Post Office.  Both of these things can be done together.

Haven't had to complete a V112 for some while, despite volunteering each time I take a logbook into the PO.;)

Why can't they just make it simple, sorry, I forgot we are dealing with DVLA, and the system checks (yes car is over 40 yo, display popup that says has car been substantially modified (I am sure it does this on other pages) then carry on as normal?

Every time they make things so complicated. I wonder how the average driver manages to do anything?

[LightBulbFun]

following the discussion of hand signals in @Six-cylinder's thread

heres a couple invalid carriage related pictures iv managed to dig up  

pretty sure this one is a Harding  https://flic.kr/p/cANA1h

and this ones a Carter, but the interesting thing about it is YXU is a 1960 London registration, but according to Stuarts small book carter production was thought to have stopped in 1955, so Iv sent him the photograph  its interesting to see the "no hand signals" sign given it has normal indicators, unless those where fitted after the sign was!

(iv known about this one for a little, but never actually looked up when the registration was issued, I did at the time put it through the DVLA checker of course but it does not show up sadly, then lost track of the photo for a while but having finally been reminded of it I dug it up finally and decided to see when its registration was issued!)

https://www.tate.org.uk/art/archive/tga-20129-6-7-26/von-motesiczky-photographs-of-henriette-von-motesiczkys-invalid-car I wonder what happened to it?

 

[egg]

That Tate stuff led me to this image - did you see that one too?

https://www.tate.org.uk/art/archive/items/tga-20129-6-4-27-91/von-motesiczky-photograph-of-henriette-von-motesiczky-sitting-in-her-three-wheeled

 

https://artcritical.com/2010/12/24/motesiczky/

Even a painting version!

[LightBulbFun]

30 minutes ago, egg said:

That Tate stuff led me to this image - did you see that one too?

https://www.tate.org.uk/art/archive/items/tga-20129-6-4-27-91/von-motesiczky-photograph-of-henriette-von-motesiczky-sitting-in-her-three-wheeled

 

https://artcritical.com/2010/12/24/motesiczky/

Even a painting version!

no I dont think iv see those 2 before  

pretty neat!

it is interesting I have noticed, that looking at a lot of photos, that the carters invalid carriage seem to have been popular with a lot of older higher society/sort old world money type people if that makes  any sense!

even once there were better models out there, I guess its what they would of been familiar with from back in their day so to speak so thats what they bought when they needed one! but also as Iv mentioned, a lot of electric invalid carriages where used by their users much more like how a mobility scooter is used today, compared to someone with a petrol invalid carriage

so that may have been a factor in it all (much like how Ministry users of electric invalid carriages tried to hold onto the Stanley's for as long as possible!)

(keep in mind the final version of the Carter, Carters Model E F and G where introduced in 1936!)

 

even King George VI had a Carter's Model F! https://flic.kr/p/7Yp5aS

its fun to note that since it was owned by the King at the time, I dont think it was ever registered!

[adw1977]

George V, not VI.

[LightBulbFun]

21 minutes ago, adw1977 said:

George V, not VI.

I believe George V had the Bath chair on the right

where George VI had the Carters Model F electric invalid carriage on the left  

[adw1977]

15 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I believe George V had the Bath chair on the right

where George VI had the Carters Model F electric invalid carriage on the left  

Sorry, I was looking at the caption that I could read, totally ignoring the other one!

[LightBulbFun]

31 minutes ago, adw1977 said:

Sorry, I was looking at the caption that I could read, totally ignoring the other one!

ah no worries I figured something such (but I did double check on my end to be safe!)

the flicker link has some more info in its description too  

 

but speaking of electric invalid vehicles

I was talking to stuart earlier and I mentioned how I sort of assumed that all Electric Harpers where extinct, for example in my post here

On 10/19/2019 at 5:21 PM, LightBulbFun said:

have you thought about an electric Tippen Delta or AC Model 64?

(there was also an electric version of the Harper Mk6 but none are known to survive AFAIK)

however I realised that I don't know that for a fact

and as it turns out 61HPA is actually an Electric harper Mk6! not a petrol one like I assumed!

(I think I assumed the known surviving harpers were petrol, because as they came up in conversation with stuart etc I figured it would have been mentioned that they are electric if they where, but it never was so I just sort of assumed they were petrol!)

 

for those unaware the Harper Mk1 Mk4 and Mk6 where  available in both Petrol and 36V electric variants, I wonder what running gear the 36V electric variants had? (and for those wondering, no im not sure what happened to the Harper Mk 2 3 and 5 LOL)

and I also wonder what the control scheme of the electric Mk6 (and previous marks) looked like, I have just about seen the insides of a Petrol Mk6 but I have not seen an electric one I dont think!

there is sadly very little detailed Harper info/pictures out there 

[barrett]

did you know there are at least three 'invacars' in the PS Speicher museum in Germany? I think all are from the old Automuseum Story. There is a Model 70, a Tippen Delta (just at the top left of this image) and, not pictured here for some reason, a Model 60 as well. The reg on the Tippen looks like DDU ?35F to me

[LightBulbFun]

17 minutes ago, barrett said:

did you know there are at least three 'invacars' in the PS Speicher museum in Germany? I think all are from the old Automuseum Story. There is a Model 70, a Tippen Delta (just at the top left of this image) and, not pictured here for some reason, a Model 60 as well. The reg on the Tippen looks like DDU ?35F to me

oh very cool, I was somewhat aware,

I was aware of the museum and that they had KPA185K but I was not aware they had a Model 70

although I did wonder if they did because a previous museum in germany had Model 70 and said museum closed with some of its exhibits ending up in the museum you mention  

I THINK the Tippen Delta is ODU535E, it is also from the closed museum if thats the case

also do you mean Model 64 or Model 67? the same museum that closed had a Model 67 and I think a Model 64 as well, sadly their ID's are uknown and along with the Model 70 id love to know what their ID's are!

(Model 60 is funnily enough the Barrett Midget! only 3 are known to survive, and I dont think any ended up in germany, but id love to be proved wrong and find out theres a 4th car!)

 

On 7/26/2019 at 8:37 PM, LightBulbFun said:

I wonder if any shitter knows which museum this one is in? I think its somewhere in Germany  

https://flic.kr/p/jYkoWs

its interesting to note that it has the Short style VIN plate but lacks a rollover bar

sadly I dont actually know when Invacar introduced the short plate (as my VIN plate picture collection for Invacar Model 70's goes from TWC straight to REV I sadly dont have anything in between those 2)

 

On 7/27/2019 at 1:00 AM, Mrs6C said:

It was the Kleinwagenmuseum in the German village of Störy, near Hildesheim. It closed in 2004 and the cars were dispersed. The photo you have shown is from the set taken by this chap, Jonee, at the last microcar gathering held there in 2002:
https://oppositelock.kinja.com/strangest-dealer-grouping-1836743852

Some of the exhibits are on show at the PS-Speicher museum in nearby Einbeck:
https://www.ps-speicher.de/sonderausstellung-kleinwagen.php

 

On 7/27/2019 at 1:32 AM, LightBulbFun said:

Oh wow very cool finds the PS-Speicher museum has KPA185K I had thought all the Model 70 based City cars had been lost to the US (also @Ghosty I think it was you who mentioned seeing a KPA Invacar right? it was probably KPA185K  )

one of those needs repatriating to the UK, and then going over with a fine tooth comb  (sadly KPA185K does not show up on the DVLA checker but the other 2 known prototypes OPK110L VPA167M do show up)

theres sadly very little known about them, other then they are Steyr puch powered and are believed to at least use the rear half of a Model 70's chassis with the same CVT setup

I wonder if the PS museum also has the Model 70 pictured above?

(NB I did discover there was actually a KPA-K block of Model 70's KPA301K to KPA500K, so im curious once more if what @Ghosty recalls was just the AC Town car or an actual Model 70, im sadly not aware of any pictures of any KPA-K Model 70s I just know the block exists)

[barrett]

er, yeah, not thinking straight. The other one is a model 57!

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, barrett said:

er, yeah, not thinking straight. The other one is a model 57!

ah interesting! 

did you see if the "engine" cover had vents or not?

thats how you can tell a Model 57 and Model 64 appart from the outside  

a Model 57 (although to be pedantic, BFW598B ex 9771KR is a private example so is "just" an AC Acedes Mk10!, granted even the government cars just said Acedes on the VIN plate, the MoH/DHSS number was normally just that and was not used by the vehicle manufacturers etc)

 

 

and here is a Model 64 

(The Model 64 and Model 70 are the only 2 invalid vehicles that had no marketing name and where known/called only by their MoH/DHSS number  even by their respective makers )

 

[barrett]

Er, yes, one of those. It's just visible in the back of a photo I have been sent and now way of deciphering which it actually is, but it's 'that shape' and dark blue.

I keep having naughty thoughts about that Harper! It's much less appealing being an electric one, however, which may just about stop me driving up and down the A3 looking for it when I'm allowed out again

[LightBulbFun]

18 minutes ago, barrett said:

Er, yes, one of those. It's just visible in the back of a photo I have been sent and now way of deciphering which it actually is, but it's 'that shape' and dark blue.

haha yeah I figured the small details may have been a step to far!

(a lot of people don't realise the electric version of the Model 57, was its own vehicle in its own right rather than just an electric version of the Model 57 or an "Electric Acedes" a good example of this is how the Model 64 with the Mk5 variant was fitted with parallelogram front suspension, something the Model 57 never got remaining C-tube until the end)

18 minutes ago, barrett said:

I keep having naughty thoughts about that Harper! It's much less appealing being an electric one, however, which may just about stop me driving up and down the A3 looking for it when I'm allowed out again

Oh goody my post is having the intended effect I hoped it would!

I left this comment out in my original post about it being electric

but yeah I did wonder if that would make it more or less appealing to others looking to save it! 

 

less appealing in that its not as usable and could be said to be less engaging to drive/play with compared to a petrol machine

but more appealing in that its that little bit more unusual and rarer and an electric machine can be fun to play with in its own right  see @strangeangel thread for an example  

 

regardless tho, I hope if it has not already been saved, that it does get saved by someone, preferably/hopefully by someone on here so we can have a thread about it  (and I can get all the juicy details on it!)

[strangeangel]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

...an electric machine can be fun to play with in its own right  see @strangeangel thread for an example  

 

 

Well, it's certainly been educational; as transport it sucks balls* ?  I'm hoping the fun will arrive along with a second speed controller and a bootful of extra batteries.

 

*Purchased last October, it managed a total of three days service before burning out the motor brushes.

 

[Eyersey1234]

Invacars getting a mention on Pistonheads. 

[LightBulbFun]

4 hours ago, Eyersey1234 said:

Invacars getting a mention on Pistonheads. 

ah cool I appreciate the heads up   (where invacars pop up its always fun to stalk the thread in question and see what people say, see how the ol Myths are doing etc LOL)

so did a bit of quick googling found the thread

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=47&t=1864748

"rev-erend" 

oh if only he knew!

 

 

[Ghosty]

I can't remember at all... 

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, Ghosty said:

I can't remember at all... 

Yeah, I figured I was stretching it by bringing it up again this late! 

dont worry about it just something I was curious about thats all  

(it was just something ya mentioned to me at the FoD, I think during the last FoTU?)

(you know I almost typed festival of the unacceptable, now THAT would be a fun car show LOL)

[Ghosty]

Yes, it was at FOTU lol. 

[LightBulbFun]

Im not entirely sure what thread this should go in, (could go in the tech thread the computershite thread or the what have you fixed thread!)

 so im just going to stick it here in my own thread and hopefully someone might find it interesting!

 

as some of you may know I do have a 3rd hobby which is computers, specifically focusing on (older) Apple computers (but i also like tinkering with other computers in general as well)

and as such I had an iMac G4, (a 2002 desktop computer) which had a very dead CPU (note the melted and burnt plastic and thermal paste, plus the die (the thing you can see "XPC7451" written on) is meant to be purple not green!)

now normally this would be the end of the line for such a computer or its logic board (motherboard in non apple speak) because as you can see the CPU is soldered to the logic board via a Ball grid array or BGA for short, (its not in any sort of socket sadly)

what BGA is in basic terms, on the circuit board there are lots of little pads and on the CPU are lots of little solder balls the 2 are then lined up and everything is heated up until the solder balls melt and attach themselves with the CPU to the circuit boards pads

most people would tell you that CPUs and the such like attached to circuit boards by such methods are not replaceable/repairable but armed with a few tools I set about replacing it, and I figured id show a rough process of what I did etc  

 

first of all I need a new CPU to put in it, these apple computers from the time dont use off the shelf CPUs you can buy from ebay persay, so I had to salvage a suitable CPU from another apple CPU daughter card I had not helped by the fact these CPUs are soldered down and in general CPUs of all types which are of the type that get soldered down are not easy to find as they are not considered end user replaceable (but you can buy the daughter cards easily enough from ebay but you cant get the CPU's themselves easily)

so here I am preheating the donner CPU card to remove its CPU (the white goopy stuff around the CPU is soldering flux, this helps clean things up and helps the solder flow and stick to things better etc, much like how a plumber uses flux to help solder his pipes!)

(the preheating means I don't have to sit there blasting the relatively delicate CPU with hot air for as long as if I did it without preheating)

then after heating the CPU card with a hot air gun the solder balls under the CPU melts and I was able to lift the CPU off, which you can see on the right on the body of the hot air gun just for safekeeping

now the problem with re-using BGA CPUs like this is all the little solder balls get messed up when you lift the chip up so I have to clean up the "new" CPU and put fresh solder balls on, which I have done here using a stencil, then heating the balls up so they melt in place then removing the stencil  

then finally getting the iMac logic board with the dead CPU on the preheater ready to remove its dead CPU

 

I then removed the old CPU same way as above, but when you do this some of the solder is left on the pads on the circuit board and this has to be cleaned up etc ready for the new CPU like so  which I do using my soldering iron and some solder wick (a special copper braid that's good at sucking up solder from the pads etc  )

 

and then finally I take the new CPU pop on the board, and carefully poke and prod at it until its as lined up as I can get it, then hit it with the hot air gun until it solders itself in place

 

side on view of the now soldered, solder balls

 

and after putting it all back together again im pleased to report the computer now turned on and worked!

well kinda LOL it sadly still has issues, in that it locks up soon after booting, but i'm pretty pleased it worked at all!

given I had no idea if this board had any other issues, I just knew the CPU was very dead so figured id try replacing that as a start  

im still investigating the issues, but hopefully i can fix in the next few days or so, but as mentioned the board might have had other issues before the CPU cooked itself, which are now manifesting themselves

 

as a side note I think this is the first time I have done such work to repair a computer

this is not my first time doing BGA soldering, far from it  iv done it a good few times now, but that was to upgrade existing working CPU cards with newer/faster CPUs  (and I have mentioned this in passing in one of the tech/computer threads on here but I don't think I ever documented the whole process!)

the CPU I have fitted here is also a faster/better version of what it replaced so it is an upgrade in that regard too, but it was done primarily to try and fix the machine rather then upgrade it so thats just a nice side bonus in this case  (the old CPU was a PowerPC 7451 CPU rated at 800Mhz, the "new" CPU I fitted is a PowerPC 7455 rated at a faster 1Ghz although I have not adjusted the computer to run at that speed yet)

 

hope this little off topic excursion was enjoyable and made some modicum of sense! if anyone has any questions about it feel free to ask and ill be more than happy to try and answer them!