invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[mitsisigma01]

I didn't fancy going all the way back through 1047 pages, still useful for people that might of missed them! 

[LightBulbFun]

10 minutes ago, mitsisigma01 said:

I didn't fancy going all the way back through 1047 pages, still useful for people that might of missed them! 

yah no problem posting them again  

just letting you know where they where posted originally incase you want to see what the discussion about them was like  

 

[barefoot]

6 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

no I dont think I am aware of them, iv only ever been to 1 pub and that was as a 4 year old!

I appreciate that you're a bit of a tit, but Ball & Jones or Jones & Ball had quite a bit to do with Invacars locally in Long Eaton. If you don't consider it worth following up then fuck you, but don't expect me to contribute anything else to your thread.

[LightBulbFun]

4 hours ago, barefoot said:

I appreciate that you're a bit of a tit, but Ball & Jones or Jones & Ball had quite a bit to do with Invacars locally in Long Eaton. If you don't consider it worth following up then fuck you, but don't expect me to contribute anything else to your thread.

Im sorry I wasn't aware of that, I never said it was not worth following up?, In Fact I did a brief bit of googling at the time of your post but couldn't find anything, I was hoping after my response you could have elaborated a bit more on what this place was etc 

and you had asked me if I was aware of them to which I truthly said I was not aware of them

so im sorry that I have seemingly upset/annoyed you in some way

that was very much not my intention! 

 

[Out Run]

I was gonna say, @barefoot was only passing on the info that someone he had spoken to in a pub, had referenced a company related to Invacar’s. The fact the conversation took place in a pub is irrelevant.

[LightBulbFun]

11 hours ago, Out Run said:

I was gonna say, @barefoot was only passing on the info that someone he had spoken to in a pub, had referenced a company related to Invacar’s. The fact the conversation took place in a pub is irrelevant.

I understand that, I just included my story as just a bit of a side thing!

as mentioned i had not been able to find much in my quick googling at the time, but I wasn't sure if this was something that was supposed to be well known if you were a frequent pub goer or such, so I included my fizzy orange juice story to say that I have not really been involved with the pub scene so to speak!

 

im just still not sure what I did to annoy @barefoot so much, and direct such expletives at me!

I would very much like to know what I did wrong so I can avoid doing it in the future!

as mentioned it was very much not my intention, and I certainly never intended to say that I "dont consider it worth following up", so id like to know where he thought I said that, so I can make sure I dont do it again!

[Christine]

If your 14 days ain't up ....i' d  cancel  the tyres and insurance mate , this year's over !!

[Eyersey1234]

I came across this online earlier LBF, sorry if its already been mentioned. Apparently its been converted to a diesel engine. 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Christine said:

If your 14 days ain't up ....i' d  cancel  the tyres and insurance mate , this year's over !!

as in something I said or you just saying in general to the whole coronavirus stuff?

53 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

I came across this online earlier LBF, sorry if its already been mentioned. Apparently its been converted to a diesel engine. 

ah cool  

Np I have come across it before but I always like to see a Model 70!, its currently wearing the private number plate VAV1L

On 2/23/2019 at 12:15 PM, LightBulbFun said:

MPD553P, AC, Date of first registration 13 April 1976, Current status: Unknown, notable for having the private reg VAV1L and a Kubota diesel engine. Current tax no MOT, 2 in the past in 2016 and 2017, Date of last V5C (logbook) issued, 20 June 2017

 

id like to know why he converted it to a diesel engine, was there a problem with its original engine or was it just for giggles?

would love to know how it drives especially as its still going through the AC/Salsbury gearbox/CVT system! as the CVT is tuned to keep a steyr puch engine at 3500RPM where it makes maximum torque

so I wonder how it plays with a completely different engine!

I also wonder how much it weighs! probably more then the original steyr puch engine I imagine!

[Eyersey1234]

Maybe it was converted for the LOLs

[Out Run]

4 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I wasn't sure if this was something that was supposed to be well known if you were a frequent pub goer or such

I can’t see it being a hot topic! 

[Mrs6C]

@barefoot - can you advise further on 'Jones & Ball' (or 'Ball & Jones') of Meadow Lane, Long Eaton WRT the information that your fellow drinker was imparting? I have been meaning to ask @LightBulbFun to start compiling a list of the Service Agents and any photos and snippets of detail about the same, so that this important aspect of the Invacar/AC history isn't lost. The AS 'hive mind' has been able to bring a few to attention, but it would be good to track down as many as possible.

I had a look online based on these names myself, but nothing was obvious in the Long Eaton area. What did your chap say?

A thought - might it have been 'Cue & Jones' instead? I did find a reference to them as being an agent for mobility vehicles based at Colton's Yeard off Clifton Avenue, which itself is a road just off Meadow Lane:
Cue & Jones Ltd, Colton's Yard, Clifton Avenue, Long Eaton, Nottingham, NG10 2GA

 

[barefoot]

Apologies for my abruptness yesterday.

Chap said that Ball & Jones/Jones & Ball used to break Invacars & he bought the Villiers 197cc engines, replaced the crank & piston, but retained the head & used them in cart racing. I too was unable to find anything with a quick scan of the googles. Obviously this isn't T70 related, but I thought it might be of some interest. Meadow Lane incidentally is a long established Industrial estate in Long Eaton, so I'm guessing that there must be something out there.

[Mrs6C]

Great! Thanks for that. We can dig a bit deeper with some old maps and trade directories and see what can be found. Interestingly the website where I found the reference to 'Cue & Jones' also had a note from the same poster that he and his Dad had built a trailer with an old Invacar in 1970, retaining the rear wheels and suspension... wonder if that is the trailer that @LightBulbFun now owns?

https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/forum/phpbb/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18825&highlight=invacar

[Eyersey1234]

I can't find a Cue and Jones listed at Companies House which implies they are no longer trading. 

[LightBulbFun]

45 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

@barefoot - can you advise further on 'Jones & Ball' (or 'Ball & Jones') of Meadow Lane, Long Eaton WRT the information that your fellow drinker was imparting? I have been meaning to ask @LightBulbFun to start compiling a list of the Service Agents and any photos and snippets of detail about the same, so that this important aspect of the Invacar/AC history isn't lost. The AS 'hive mind' has been able to bring a few to attention, but it would be good to track down as many as possible.

I had a look online based on these names myself, but nothing was obvious in the Long Eaton area. What did your chap say?

A thought - might it have been 'Cue & Jones' instead? I did find a reference to them as being an agent for mobility vehicles based at Colton's Yeard off Clifton Avenue, which itself is a road just off Meadow Lane:
Cue & Jones Ltd, Colton's Yard, Clifton Avenue, Long Eaton, Nottingham, NG10 2GA

yeah thats something iv been meaning to do, Ill have to ask stuart what info he has or if he is planning on including anything on the subject matter in his big book  

I know one thing iv been planning/wanting to do "for a while now" , is once I get REV back on the road, go and visit  her previous owner, he had many old stories that I would like to note them down in some form or another so they are not lost to time!

(for those not aware REV's previous owner did at one time back in the day run an invalid vehicle service approved repairer himself, and when I was collecting REV he told of many funny and good stories during his time as one) 

plus I think he would enjoy seeing REV again  

38 minutes ago, barefoot said:

Apologies for my abruptness yesterday.

Chap said that Ball & Jones/Jones & Ball used to break Invacars & he bought the Villiers 197cc engines, replaced the crank & piston, but retained the head & used them in cart racing. I too was unable to find anything with a quick scan of the googles. Obviously this isn't T70 related, but I thought it might be of some interest. Meadow Lane incidentally is a long established Industrial estate in Long Eaton, so I'm guessing that there must be something out there.

ah no problem

 oh cool, a lot of people back in the day used Villiers engines/drivetrains out of Invacars to power go carts and the such like, indeed it of interest, does not have to be Model 70 related  

(although I do wonder if anyone ever got their hands unknowingly on a Model 70 and promptly sent themselves to space?  )

32 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Great! Thanks for that. We can dig a bit deeper with some old maps and trade directories and see what can be found. Interestingly the website where I found the reference to 'Cue & Jones' also had a note from the same poster that he and his Dad had built a trailer with an old Invacar in 1970, retaining the rear wheels and suspension... wonder if that is the trailer that @LightBulbFun now owns?

https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/forum/phpbb/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18825&highlight=invacar

ah thats neat! would be very cool if it is the same trailer!

(it would explain why the DVLA would have no record of its registration number! since the DVLA as we know it was only formed in 1974, it does mean if it is the same trailer that was "made" in 1970, then Poor RPE405E would have only been 3 years old when it got scrapped!)

[Mrs6C]

Looks like they were on their way or had disappeared by 2008... the building is Colton's Yard, off Clifton Avenue.

 

[barefoot]

Well bugger me.

[666jjp]

this was probably the reason,

https://funeral-notices.co.uk/national/death-notices/notice/Dennis+Jones/2187336

 

[plasticvandan]

Ashley repairs in Worcester was where my grandad worked in the 1960s on Invalid cars,they had another bigger depot in Birmingham as well.personally I would cancel your insurance for now so long as it's storage situation is ok for the long term,with you being in that there London as well you won't be going anywhere,you might also have to prepare yourself fir your test being postponed.

[Christine]

Yeah Corona virus...all non essential journeys and all that..people are dying..?

[LightBulbFun]

29 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

Ashley repairs in Worcester was where my grandad worked in the 1960s on Invalid cars,

ah cool I remember you talking about your grandfather's work in the early days of this thread

you dont happen to have any photos on the subject matter would be pretty cool to see!

(especially if like most AR pictures iv seen theres usually a whole bunch of invalid vehicles in a corner somewhere ) 

id love to know where these 2 pictures where taken, but I sadly don't recall any sort of location information when I found em, it must be some sort of AR's back yard tho!

 

29 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

personally I would cancel your insurance for now so long as it's storage situation is ok for the long term,with you being in that there London as well you won't be going anywhere,you might also have to prepare yourself fir your test being postponed.

 

22 minutes ago, Christine said:

Yeah Corona virus...all non essential journeys and all that..people are dying..?

well its just a small gathering of people at the FoD, its not like im trying to host a football match (mind we have the correct cars for one LOL)

so Id like to think/hope that it is still on!

iv got until the 23rd to axe my insurance I think, so ill wait things out a bit longer at least before axing it!

obviously if no one else wants to go to the proposed FoD 4/5th gathering then I ain't got much of a choice! 

but im still hopeful people want to come! 

 

I am a bit worried about my lessons/test being disrupted tho!

 

[Mrs6C]

There's more!!!

 @barefoot you have uncovered a whole warren of internet rabbit holes that I have spent a happy evening exploring. If you bump into the same chap again at the pub, please do find out more about 'Cue and Jones' (as that appears to be the name) as it has turned up a rather fascinating story...

'Cue and Jones' was established in May 1961 by Dennis Jones. He was an ex-Rolls Royce apprentice who spent the war years working on the design of aircraft engines and torpedo boats for RR in Derby. This work was alongside his designing, hand-building and racing his own hand-built motorcycles. Here's one he made earlier:
http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/pictures/jones-supercharged-4-cylinder/

He got to be quite famous on the motor-racing scene, riding his own 'Jones' bikes and having other top riders use them as well:
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/14264/lot/640/?category=list

After leaving Rolls Royce, he started his own business: Cue and Jones, a mechanical engineering company. There he seems to have continued to build his racing motorcycles until at least the early 1980s. That kept him happy and busy until he retired at the age of 70, in around 1986. Here is a nice piece about him in the 2009 edition of Buzzing magazine, on page 13:
https://thebuzzingclub.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/04-Buzzing-Jun09-web.pdf

Sadly he died on 21-Mar-08, at the age of 92. His obituary notes that "made invalid cars for the Ministry of Pensions.He gave people without personal mobility the chance to drive again."
https://funeral-notices.co.uk/national/death-notices/notice/Dennis+Jones/2187336/

A tribute from his wife Rosemary, in the same, says that he developed the Scoota Ski. While I haven't been able to find out more about something with that spelling, it's just possible she meant 'Scooter Ski' which was designed by Tim Bedford and made as a collaboration among his Scooter Ski (Sales) company of Draycott in Derbyshire, Reliant at Tamworth and Sharps Commercials (Bond) in Preston:
http://www.bondownersclub.co.uk/types/others/scooterski.html

This wasn't the first watercraft to have graced India Mill. Sharps Commercials had produced the Sea Ranger boat...
http://www.bondownersclub.co.uk/types/others/searanger.html

... and later on, the Power-Ski...
http://www.bondownersclub.co.uk/types/others/powerski.html

Back to Scooter Skis though... here are some in glorious technicolour action! 

Something similar was made by the Vincent motorcycle company in the 1950s, called the Amanda Water Scooter...

 

Footnote... via another link to Dennis Jones, there is mention elsewhere that DMW Motorcycles of Wolverhampton looked after Villiers engines for the invalid cars in the early 1970s, on a government contract for the NHS...
http://www.bsaotter.com/1966_a_villi_good_year__.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMW_Motorcycles

There, I bet you didn't see all that arising from your chance chat in a pub!

[LightBulbFun]

Very cool stuff! 

4 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Footnote... via another link to Dennis Jones, there is mention elsewhere that DMW Motorcycles of Wolverhampton looked after Villiers engines for the invalid cars in the early 1970s, on a government contract for the NHS...

that company/location sounded very familiar

so did a bit of digging, check out the bottom bit  

and here is similar info on Steyr puch engine parts for those wondering  

[Mrs6C]

Here is the factory:
http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/Transport/Motorcycles/DMWintoproduction.htm

This page notes that DMW took over servicing of the 11E engine, which would align with the paperwork. There are some more photos of the factory and offices also, on this page:
http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/Transport/Motorcycles/DMWlateryears.htm

[LightBulbFun]

2 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Here is the factory:
http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/Transport/Motorcycles/DMWintoproduction.htm

This page notes that DMW took over servicing of the 11E engine, which would align with the paperwork. There are some more photos of the factory and offices also, on this page:
http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/Transport/Motorcycles/DMWlateryears.htm

very interesting!

it also answers a question I had in that I had read/knew that Villers petered out in the 1970s

and it did make me wonder, how did the DHSS handle all of this given in 1974 they had about 13 thousand villers powered invalid vehicles in service at the time! 

and now I know  

[Mrs6C]

Here's a tribute to the late Peter Ward of P&M Ward of Lealholm, Whitby... Peter and Margaret Ward...  he passed on in 2013...
http://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php?topic=18167.0

[Zelandeth]

Well I'm probably going to have to bow out.

I've been officially advised that as I'm in an at risk category to self isolate - for the next 12 weeks minimum.  So that pretty much puts an end to plans for this FoD weekend (not to mention two other events I've been clinging onto my sanity looking forward to - which are likely to be cancelled anyway).

The advice being put out now is that no travel should be going on that's not essential, and while they're not (yet) actually putting a ban on gatherings the advice is simple: "Don't!"

This mess is going to get a lot worse before it gets better I fear.

Obviously this means I can't host you or provide transportation I'm afraid as I can't do...well sodding anything!

[LightBulbFun]

53 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Well I'm probably going to have to bow out.

I've been officially advised that as I'm in an at risk category to self isolate - for the next 12 weeks minimum.  So that pretty much puts an end to plans for this FoD weekend (not to mention two other events I've been clinging onto my sanity looking forward to - which are likely to be cancelled anyway).

The advice being put out now is that no travel should be going on that's not essential, and while they're not (yet) actually putting a ban on gatherings the advice is simple: "Don't!"

This mess is going to get a lot worse before it gets better I fear.

Obviously this means I can't host you or provide transportation I'm afraid as I can't do...well sodding anything!

oh thats not good! both you being at risk and not being able to make it as a result

I had feared such when I saw the grumpy thread post, but its fully understandable, if theres anything I can do to help let me know!

 

as a roll call who else was/is up for this proposed gathering?

apart from @Eyersey1234 and @Slowsilver no one else really confirmed if they are coming or going LOL so it makes a bit hard to judge

 

@beko1987, @Andyrew  and @richardmorris i know you 3 tend to frequent the FoD when something in it needs fixing I didn't want to call you 3 out specifically when I made the announcement of a FoD gathering as that seemed a bit I dunno my social anxiety did not sit well with that idea! I didn't want you to think I was taking you for granted or such I guess! 

but in light of the situation it would be nice/good to know if you would be/are up for the 4/5th or if you would not be up for it in light of the current situation or other reasons of course!

(as mentioned above im personally not overly worried about the corna situation in regards to the gathering, as it would be a small gathering so low risk, so im very much still in favor for it still, but obviously if no one else is well then ill have to call it off)

if I do end up having to call the gathering off, I wonder if I should have REV transported down here as she is, so I dont end up cut off from her, but that puts me in the situation of taking her further away from shitters who can help me out before I even have a set of decent tyres on her!

and I cant even cancel my insurance to free up money for to pay a garage to do the work as for her to be parked here she needs to be insured

[mitsisigma01]

Do you live on the ground floor and do you have patio doors ? get it indoors and self isolate and repair whenever it suits you ?