invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Zelandeth]

I'll try to get the rest of the documentation from that little bundle of Mark 12E stuff scanned in this weekend and try hitting this with the OCR software I've picked up since digitising the last of the Model 70 stuff, but here's the basic scan of the user's instruction manual in 150dpi "internet friendly" resolution.  I'll make the full resolution version which will be more suitable for re-printing should you want a copy for anything like that in due course.

Invacar Mark 12E Instruction Manual 1968-70.pdf

[LightBulbFun]

34 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

I'll try to get the rest of the documentation from that little bundle of Mark 12E stuff scanned in this weekend and try hitting this with the OCR software I've picked up since digitising the last of the Model 70 stuff, but here's the basic scan of the user's instruction manual in 150dpi "internet friendly" resolution.  I'll make the full resolution version which will be more suitable for re-printing should you want a copy for anything like that in due course.

Invacar Mark 12E Instruction Manual 1968-70.pdf 3.05 MB · 1 download

ah awesome! many thanks for scanning that in, just finished reading it now and comparing to another Mk12E instruction manual scan I have on hand,, yours, is by far the best quality scan I know of for the Invacar Mk12E manual  

I look forward to seeing the full rez version and what the other paper work presents  

 

(now we just need to find all the other Invacar Mk12 instruction manuals out there, for the Mk12 Mk12A Mk12B Mk12C and Mk12D, would be good to find a Mk12c one specifically as thats what @BlankFrank Invacar Mk12 is)

 

[LightBulbFun]

doing my daily search for all things Invacar come across a couple new/interesting ones   

 

first a Carter invalid carriage that I dont think was previously known about? (but will see what stuart has to say)

https://www.necclassicmotorshow.com/company/federation-british-historic-vehicle-clubs-ltd-fbhvc

which is on the DVLA and still retains its original number  

 

 

and most interestingly this collection of pictures of a Tippen Delta 8 pictures from a Gumtree advert in Country Londonderry Northern Ireland I think

sadly the advert has expired so I cant find/see the advert itself, but thankfully the images where still in google search and on ebay's servers so I was able to save them that way

im very curious what happened to it, and what its past story is, Tippen Delta works (Coventry) registered, but its forum coloured! (talk about hearing aid beige!, and quite clearly like that from new not painted later in life) which hints very strongly at it being a private example!

sadly OWK911G is not on the DVLA computer (at least not on the public facing records) so I cant pull its chassis number and see whats what (I have no idea if private Tippen Delta's used their own chassis numbering system or not)

again another one I dont think was anyone else's records until now

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr Pastry]

11 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

but its forum coloured! (talk about hearing aid beige!, and quite clearly like that from new not painted later in life) which hints very strongly at it being a private example!

Difficult to tell, but that looks suspiciously like pigmented gel coat rather than paint, if that gives you any ideas.  

[Zelandeth]

That's quite a find, definitely at least superficially looks like it would be a great restoration candidate.  A lot more complete than a lot we've seen.

[LightBulbFun]

On 05/12/2020 at 15:43, Mr Pastry said:

Difficult to tell, but that looks suspiciously like pigmented gel coat rather than paint, if that gives you any ideas.  

Yeah it is, The Tippen Delta was gel coat coloured rather then painted from the factory (along with most other Fibreglass invalid vehicles of the time, the Model 70 is a bit murkier in that regard and research into which where gel coated vs painted is still ongoing)

thats one of the big clues that tell me that it was coloured like this from the factory rather then a repaint later in life 

also quite interesting in that (although I dont have a brochure   for the delta 8 ) that beige was NOT a colour they offered, at least not back in 1960 or there abouts

but they could have easily added it later on by the time of the Delta 8 (the above brochure is for the Delta 3 or 4)

much like this late 60's early 1970's Mazda netaline of mine thats in a similar shade of beige, but was not one of the Original  colours the Netaline was offered in back in the early 60's

On 05/12/2020 at 15:56, Zelandeth said:

That's quite a find, definitely at least superficially looks like it would be a great restoration candidate.  A lot more complete than a lot we've seen.

Yeah! I just wish the gumtree advert for it was still up so I could track it down and try and learn some more about it

[LightBulbFun]

On 04/12/2020 at 15:12, LightBulbFun said:

in Model 70 news, I got a random text from someone with a Model 70 in need of identification (no number plates)

turns out its one of Sam's buddies (Sam being the guy in NI restoring UOI8850 etc)

and its been quite interesting, first I get a picture of its Cabin Chassis plate, and the last chassis number digit is a backwards/upside down 3!

clearly not a half stamped 8, so then I ask for chassis stamped chassis numbers, which is completely different from the cabin chassis plate, so ok we have Good old Approved repairer shenanigans on the go...

but to top it off its the chassis stamped number is the chassis number of WOI4001 aka GIG4834 (it was sadly robbed of its plate years ago), and if that number sounds familiar its because that Model 70 is a survivor, (in fact it was pretty much the only known NI Model 70 known survivor or otherwise, until @Datsuncog and I dug up all the rest!)

but the thing I have never actually seen a picture of it

so now I have the fun of figuring out what am I actually looking at

am I looking at GIG4834 the already known survivor , or is GIG4834, actually another Model 70 and now the real GIG4834 has surfaced? 

 

I know @Faker has a mate with a Model 70 over in NI, that I am informed is GIG4834, if you could post/share some pictures of it would be most helpful!

 

from the photos I have seen of this car, im more inclined to say that im looking at GIG4834, as the chassis number in the cabin is for a 1973 Model 70, so Model 70 Mark 12 inch wheels, no rollover bar/headlining and the smaller speedo, single wing mirror

but in the pictures I have, I see door mounted mirrors 10 inch wheels and a larger speedo, so im inclined to think im this is GIG4834 im looking at

weather or not the GIG4834 survivor is this car or is actually another Model 70 is yet to be figured out!

continuing this, I got a few more pictures, one of the engine number on the chassis plate inside the car

and one of the engine number of the engine itself

which has verified to me that what we are looking at is indeed GIG4834, as both the actual engine and chassis number of this Model 70 match the DVLA record for GIG4834

but if this is or is not the same GIG4834, thats been known about for years now I dont know still sadly

it is worth noting that the chassis plate inside the cabin does NOT match the car itself, said chassis plate is for TPG443M,

which makes me wonder GIG4834 thats been known about for years might actually be TPG443M wearing GIG's chassis plate?

 

and finally to throw a final spanner in the works,

stuart did mentioned a while back in conversation (long before these events) that GIG had small windows mounted in the rear pillars  (much like the port holes mentioned above funnily enough LOL, I was actually going to mention GIG in reference to that before all this suddenly popped about it, talk about coincidences!)

and a small CB radio aerial  by engine cover,  but that this was 15 years ago

and I say spanner in the works because, the car im looking at (the real GIG4834) has none of that, so if that really was the case

then that does mean that theres another surviving model 70 that someone currently owns, masquerading as GIG, so im not sure how you would go about sorting it,

(if I can get in contact with whoever has the car masquerading GIG, then it would be simply a case of explaining what happened, he does a keeper transfer to the guy who has the real GIG, and then I help the guy with False GIG figure out the true ID of his car)

of course as stuart said back then that was 15 years ago so he could easily be miss rembering and I could be looking at the real and only GIG4834 and I dont have to worry about anything!

[egg]

£2k for Ollie's Invacars on ebay...

[LightBulbFun]

10 minutes ago, egg said:

£2k for Ollie's Invacars on ebay...

Yeah, on one hand thats quite ridiculous

but on the other hand a singular Invacar Mk12 in similar condition to yours went for about £1400 fairly recently

in that light, this was actually quite a good price? LOL

 

regardless hopefully they go to a good home  

 

I think I do know who won these but just waiting to verify with @OliD-E (or when the guy who I think won gets back to somewhere where there is internet and tells me if he did or did not)

[Mr Pastry]

19 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

Yeah it is, The Tippen Delta was gel coat coloured rather then painted from the factory

The beige looks very much like a standard fibreglass pigment colour, and by coincidence the Hamblin body I restored was pretty much that colour.  If the Tippens were all pigmented, that explains why I remember them as being a lighter blue than the ACs.

 

12 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

it is worth noting that the chassis plate inside the cabin does NOT match the car itself, said chassis plate is for TPG443M,

which makes me wonder GIG4834 thats been known about for years might actually be TPG443M wearing GIG's chassis plate?

 

Great research as always, but I'm not sure that trying to get everything back to its original ID is always a good thing.  Surely the changes in ID - whether done by an AR in the course of normal business - or by an enthusiast simply to get his car back on the road -  are part of the car's history?    If you try and change it all back to how it was on day 1, arguably you are just making the history more complicated and maybe even erasing some of it.  It depends on what the owner wants to do, but you can get into deep water being an expert, and sometimes it is best left alone.  

[LightBulbFun]

9 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Great research as always, but I'm not sure that trying to get everything back to its original ID is always a good thing.  Surely the changes in ID - whether done by an AR in the course of normal business - or by an enthusiast simply to get his car back on the road -  are part of the car's history?    If you try and change it all back to how it was on day 1, arguably you are just making the history more complicated and maybe even erasing some of it.  It depends on what the owner wants to do, but you can get into deep water being an expert, and sometimes it is best left alone.  

well the problem here is the guy wants to know the registration number so he can put the car back on the road etc

so I cant let sleeping dogs lie sadly as otherwise he will have a registration-less car, so I have to figure whats going on here, I cant just let it lie

as I mentioned this could be the one and only GIG, I just sadly dont have any pictures of GIG otherwise, so before I tell him what to do, I need to verify that by telling him to V62 for GIG, im not screwing someone else over basically 

 

(and trust me although im not too happy about it, there are a couple sleeping dogs I am letting lie for the reasons you mention, I just hope those dogs dont wake up/get found and bite the owners in the arse!)

22 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

The beige looks very much like a standard fibreglass pigment colour, and by coincidence the Hamblin body I restored was pretty much that colour.  If the Tippens were all pigmented, that explains why I remember them as being a lighter blue than the ACs.

Yeah!, most Pre Model 70 machines where coloured by their Gel coat

which made things quite easy for the owner of JBY503J (ex LVX250J), as to revert the car from bond bug orange back to blue, all he had to do was simply sand it back to the gel coat, and bam freshly painted* Invacar Mk12E LOL

whether  or not Model 70's where gel coat coloured or painted is still unknown, its not helped that Most surviving Model 70's led long and hard lives before entering preservation, so have been painted several times, regardless the drivers handbook/workshop manual alludes to them being gel coat coloured

and I know for sure some where, but I dont know if all where or not...

 

it also worth noting that the Ministry blue might have changed slightly in the late 1960's early 1970's (pre Model 70)

it has been noticed that if you look at @BlankFrank's Invacar Mk12c or an Acedes Mk14 you might notice its a bit more green then an Invacar Mk12E or Acedes Mk15

but again its a little hard to say, because things do fade/change over time (and peoples cameras are not the same etc!)

 

I really just need to get a good example of all the different types in one room for me to go over with a fine tooth comb to figure whats what!

 

and obviously the Metal AC Acedes, Model 57 and Model 64 where a much darker shade of blue!

[LightBulbFun]

in somewhat REV related news I got a new tool today!

finally got myself a wire crimping tool and assorted set of terminals, which will hopefully come in handy for sorting (or bodging LOL) any electrical issues I encounter with REV

although the main incentive for getting the tool now is, I have gone all a bit @beko1987

and got myself a couple Hoover dustettes after realising just how cheap they are, and having a genuine need of a small hand held vacuum cleaner for cleaning my room (I only really needed the first one, but I like the aesthetic  of the Early Model 100's so picked one up as well LOL)

the one above works fine, but the one bellow needs a bit of electrical TLC, and a few connections are made with ring terminals, so I finally broke down and got the tools to remake those

I recommend you check out @beko1987's thread in the open forum section, if you want to see my adventure with these in more detail  (which start around page 70 on said thread amusingly enough!)

 

I also have uses for the crimping tool outside of just REV and doing up a couple hoovers, in that I have actually been needing one for about 10 years now to wire up my Variac properly

which I have finally done! I wired this up about 10 years ago when I first got it when I was well about 10!, so long over a due a proper sort out, a Variac is a special transformer that lets your vary the voltage it outputs

in this case 240V goes in and theres a big knob on top that lets me chose any voltage between 0V and 270V its very handy for a vintage lightbulb collector like myself, and just in general if you tinker with electronics and electrical things  

(with Variac being a generaised trademark that stands for Variable Voltage AutoTransformer)

anyways

before:

after:

much neater and safer I would say!

[bobdisk]

2 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

in somewhat REV related news I got a new tool today!

finally got myself a wire crimping tool and assorted set of terminals, which will hopefully come in handy for sorting (or bodging LOL) any electrical issues I encounter with REV

although the main incentive   for getting them now is, I have gone all a bit @beko1987

and got myself a couple Hoover dustettes after realising just how cheap they are, and having a genuine need of a small hand held vacuum cleaner for cleaning my room

Glad you got a decent ratchet tool, not one that is like  glorified pliers. Didnt realise how much interest there is in Hoovers! 

[LightBulbFun]

5 hours ago, bobdisk said:

Glad you got a decent ratchet tool, not one that is like  glorified pliers. 

Thanks yeah I made sure to get a ratcheting tool!

you could go the whole hog and get one of these! but I aint got that kind of money LOL

 

5 hours ago, bobdisk said:

Didnt realise how much interest there is in Hoovers! 

Yeah, I mean (one of) my main hobby is lighting/lightbulbs

but I am also just generally interested in all things electrical/electronic and older electrical stuff (like I have an old Philips 1950's valve radio that I have slowly been pecking away at since I got from charity shop back in late 2013 LOL)

and I have watched plenty youtube videos on various vintage radio and TV restorations and all the secrete life machine episodes (highly recommend checking them out!)

so I have somewhat wanted an old hoover for some time (the general styling and stuff like the inflating cloth bag I find oddly appealing LOL), but I never really looked into it too much etc, I always thought they would be £LOL etc etc

but when @wuvvum got his Dustette and @beko1987 showed me how cheap they where I was like fuck yeah! and got a couple LOL

especially as above, own interests aside, I was specifically looking for some sort of hand held vacuum cleaner for my room as its far too cramped in here to get a normal vacuum cleaner

so the Dustette ticked a whole bunch of box's in one go LOL and much cheaper and probably better then some hand held battery powered dyson or what have you!

[LightBulbFun]

Good news! GIG4834 is not 2 Model 70's as I had feared and indeed the GIG that Stuart knew about from years ago is the same GIG thats turned up recently

here are a couple pics of GIG from back when

 

and heres the pics I got recently

clearly the same car!  with this confirmed, I have informed the guy who has it what the registration number is, and hopefully in time we might see another Model 70 return to the road (and a NI one at that)

 

 

and for those curious here is the Port hole Model 70

 

 

 

 

sadly this one was never seen again after it showed up on ebay about 10 years ago

its unknown what its details are etc, but clearly looks like someone gave it some TLC at some point...

[Noel Tidybeard]

you WILL NEVER regret purchasing that crimp tool

[LightBulbFun]

On 17/11/2020 at 22:04, Woollen797 said:

Hi there would you be able to tell me what book this is please as I became the custodian of this Trilox Rollsette in 2007, Thank you

 

On 17/11/2020 at 22:35, LightBulbFun said:

happy to see you on here I did see your posts on the rumcar forum and have been meaning to leave a comment, but now your here it makes it a bit easier for me!

they are some very nice machines you have (Both your invalid carriages and the buses ) 

it would be very cool to hear how you came to get them and what you do with them   do you have list/full set of pictures of all the IC's you have?  would be good to know for the records etc!

I noticed GRT574 is not taxed for on road use and last had a V5 issued in 89 so I assume she is not currently on the road?

im not sure who took the photo in the book but I know who to ask! I also think I have a few other photos of GRT on my desktop computer which I can post tomorrow if your interested in seeing those?, it is one of the more common Trilox Rollsette's I come across in my research  

getting back to this

first off whoops, seems I miss read your question and thought you asked who took the photograph, (to which I got an answer to now, it was taken by Stuart Cyphus himself at the southwell national microcar rally 2006)

but I realise your asking what the book is not who took the photograph!

the book is An Introduction to the British Invalid Carriage 1850 - 1978 

a small book written by Stuart a good while back giving a very brief over view of the various make and models of invalid vehicles that existed over time  

[dollywobbler]

That porthole window is very sensible! Gives some much-needed visibility.

[eifion]

There was a short sighting of an Invacar in this week's episode of Tudur's TV Flashback on BBC1 Wales about three and a half minutes in. It was shot in Llandudno so possibly belonged to the bloke who used to sell newspapers outside Woolworths around the same time that scene was filmed. Sadly you can't make out the numberplate so it'd be impossible to identify.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000lrws/tudurs-tv-flashback-series-2-11-transport

 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, dollywobbler said:

That porthole window is very sensible! Gives some much-needed visibility.

I think some 2CV style rear windows would look better (ie ones fitted to the shape of the rear pillars) , then just some round windows as they are quite small and mounted quite low down so im not sure how much of an improvement they would be,  maybe mounted higher up they would be better?

but above all I prefer stock! 

 

but speaking of different to standard, stuart was very impressed with the Tippen Delta find, he says its the youngest known Petrol Tipple delta (surviving or otherwise)

it displaces OWK282G (which is another survivor )  

one of these days I need to bash all the Tippen Delta 8 Petrol chassis numbers through my tool and see what turns up, I have not done it yet, because im not expecting to find much sadly due to the fact the majority where converted to electric before the DVLA was thing

but I have recently figured out how to hopefully bulk upload/run lots of numbers at once so I no longer have to bash them in 1 by 1

I do wonder if I can find any H reg ones, the latest Known Frank Tippen and Sons Tippen Delta I know of/I can find currently is OVC89H an electric machine made right before Frank Tippen and sons stopped production, and started just supplying running gear to Fred Miller Ltd who started converting existing petrol machines to electric, the earliest of which I can find is ATD567J for those curious

I dont think its currently known if Frank Tippen and sons continued to make Petrol machines right until the end or if they did stop while electric ones continued on for a few more months

[Mrs6C]

Is the Petrol Tipple Delta started on petrol and then switched over to alcohol as its main fuel? Rather like the Ferguson tractors that are started on petrol and then switched ovet to TVO/paraffin...

 

[LightBulbFun]

18 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Is the Petrol Tipple Delta started on petrol and then switched over to alcohol as its main fuel? Rather like the Ferguson tractors that are started on petrol and then switched ovet to TVO/paraffin...

haha whoops unintentional typo there!

although funnily enough I was wondering recently how would such a 2 stroke vehicle handle something like E85?

assuming you replaced all the fuel lines and obviously had the correct 2 stroke oil, I wonder how/if it would affect the vehicle at all

[LightBulbFun]

On 06/12/2020 at 11:58, LightBulbFun said:

Yeah, on one hand thats quite ridiculous

but on the other hand a singular Invacar Mk12 in similar condition to yours went for about £1400 fairly recently

in that light, this was actually quite a good price? LOL

 

regardless hopefully they go to a good home  

 

I think I do know who won these but just waiting to verify with @OliD-E (or when the guy who I think won gets back to somewhere where there is internet and tells me if he did or did not)

just spoke with Adam just now, and confirmed indeed it is him that won OliD's Model 70's  

happy to hear that as I know they will be going to a good home

the Garden 4 become the Garden 6, and he now has the glass he was looking for! (like OliD's original plan I believe the plan is to use TPE376S to restore KPL139P, and then use the left over glass to fix up one of the original 4)

 

also speaking of, he has the first couple of the original  4 road worthy now!

seriously impressively quick work there! (given he only started working on them just a few weeks ago!)

 

[egg]

Are those the ones in Margate? If so, might see one about!

[LightBulbFun]

Just now, egg said:

Are those the ones in Margate? If so, might see one about!

nah those are part of @st185cs's stash  

these (GPF282N GTW614N, KPC538P VJN960S) are Adams 4, up north

[egg]

I iz easily confused, there are so many* these days!

[Six-cylinder]

Rev is asking is it warmer in London? 2° C and misty here today and you have to be 4WD or tracked to move around!

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, Six-cylinder said:

Rev is asking is it warmer in London? 2° C and misty here today and you have to be 4WD or tracked to move around!

Just! 

although I think you miss heard her, im pretty sure what she is actually asking was for a wash!

 

nice to see the pair again  and that they are still there where we left them in one piece! 

[Mrs6C]

4 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

although I think you miss heard her, im pretty sure what she is actually asking was for a wash!

I have come close to doing that a couple of times, but the weather hasn't been good for it lately.

[LightBulbFun]

4 hours ago, Mrs6C said:

I have come close to doing that a couple of times, but the weather hasn't been good for it lately.

Yeah its quite chilly now!

I appreciate the thought however  

 

do wish I could get REV sorted as quickly as Adam sorted his Model 70's out! goes to show given a proper workspace, that there really is not all that much that needs to be done to a Model 70 to get one road worthy