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Invacar Model 70 Acquired! & general ramble thread, index on page 1, Model 70 survivors list on page 24, pre Model 70 AC and Invacar survivors lists added on page 135 :)

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heres one very much for @Datsuncog!

image.thumb.png.71764f7000ea496281a4a9841cbb4a3a.png

 

exciting times! potentially a new NI Model 70 to add to the list

I really hope its TOI8137 because that is the very last AC Model 70 off the production line! which would be very exiting if it survives!

(I had wondered when he said 1979 if it was UOI4719 but alas it does not look to be)

for those wondering SOI7570 is thought to be the Last Invacar Model 70 off the production line, and excitingly Im almost positive it still exists!, it does have a Scrapped marker from 2003, however the picture I have seen of it seems to be later then 2003, I do want to contact the company who has the picture and find out the exact details! tho!)

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got this email earlier this evening :) 

1157092384_Screenshot2020-06-25at19_31_55.thumb.png.37b0188382ecfc7e1e0ac1c244d8befc.png

nice to know when Lessons will/can restart, hopefully my driving school/instructor follow suit, and im happy they are allowing a bit of breathing space between lessons restarting and tests restarting

should hopefully give me enough time to figure out what I want to do exactly!

heres the link from the email https://www.gov.uk/government/news/driving-lessons-theory-tests-and-driving-tests-to-restart-in-england

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That's great news! :-)

To celebrate, how about some online spottings of early invalid carriages and trikes... no Model 70s but a fair sprinkling of others with which you will be familiar...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-derbyshire-49452936/derby-war-memorial-village-opens-to-new-residents
OPJ422 - invalid carriage (convertible!)

https://rewind.leonardcheshire.org/object/lc_168/
TPC205

https://rewind.leonardcheshire.org/wp-content/uploads/assets/cheshiresmiles/Volume - 05_11.pdf
Page 15 - read the article: ' 'Possum's First Car'
Page 25 - there is mention in the article on boating of a resident having an Invacar and travelling to the boat in it

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2004/sep/01/guardianobituaries.socialcare
No invalid cars here, but the obituary of Lewis Carter-Jones, labour MP and champion of rights for the disabled, who was the Chairman of the Possum Research Foundation that produced the car mentioned in 'Possum's First Car'.

https://rewind.leonardcheshire.org/object/lc_170/
OPL478 and four other trikes

https://rewind.leonardcheshire.org/object/uk_24_009/
An Invalid car in the background!

https://rewind.leonardcheshire.org/object/lc_197/
A man in an adapted motorcycle...

 

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1 hour ago, Mrs6C said:

That's great news! :-)

To celebrate, how about some online spottings of early invalid carriages and trikes... no Model 70s but a fair sprinkling of others with which you will be familiar...

very cool stuff its been very interesting going through/reading that lot thank you for sharing :) 

1 hour ago, Mrs6C said:

OPJ422 is an AC All Weather Tricycle, I know funky looking things from the rear very square! (certainly not what i expected the first time i saw the rear of one given the curved/pointy front!)

1 hour ago, Mrs6C said:

TPC205, is actually YPC205 its a VERY early (the earliest one I have seen!) Stanley Harper Mk1, funnily enough I had actually just come across that picture a couple weeks early but not in such high rez :) 

(it took a little bit of fiddling with the URL to get the original image and not one scaled down, but whoever scanned these images in thankfully did so and uploaded them in at 600DPI great for zooming in and making out registrations :) I have re uploaded them to the forum for safe keeping, the forum does down sample them a bit but you can still zoom in pretty well) 

 https://www.facebook.com/groups/950689934973969/permalink/3055448477831427/

image.thumb.png.014a0f2e1df35c397947a8a2185ea13f.png

the Invalid carriage next to it is funnily enough a Stanley Argson electric :) 

 

1 hour ago, Mrs6C said:

 

https://rewind.leonardcheshire.org/wp-content/uploads/assets/cheshiresmiles/Volume - 05_11.pdf
Page 15 - read the article: ' 'Possum's First Car'
Page 25 - there is mention in the article on boating of a resident having an Invacar and travelling to the boat in it

that Milk-float turned invalid vehicle really is quite something! sadly it seems to have been robbed of its number plate at some point in time I wonder what happened to it?

1 hour ago, Mrs6C said:

OPL478 is another AC All weather tricycle :) but im mostly trying to figure what the steering wheeled contraption is! AFAIK the Model 70 was the first invalid vehicle to come with a full steering wheel so this is very interesting to see

image.thumb.png.824dcf7fb21a77e22892eea34b989f2f.png

BFB742 is a Bath registration so I want to say its a Harding Deluxe, somewhat modified clearly!

 

1 hour ago, Mrs6C said:

https://rewind.leonardcheshire.org/object/uk_24_009/
An Invalid car in the background!

no rear engine vents (or an exhaust!) tell me this is a Model 64 :) fittingly on L plates!

image.thumb.png.84f9da602cdd845ff12354bf52effaec.png

 

1 hour ago, Mrs6C said:

https://rewind.leonardcheshire.org/object/lc_197/
A man in an adapted motorcycle...

and finally another Stanley Argson Electric :) 

image.thumb.png.afb11c92b286cd5bf66e50d060b7f2f8.png

 

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1 hour ago, MorrisItalSLX said:

Have you seen this one yet?

 

oh thats Very interesting! thats VPF441M now with Simon Mckeown :) thank you very much for the heads up!

On 2/23/2019 at 12:15 PM, LightBulbFun said:

VPF441M, AC, Date of first registration 11 June 1974, Current status: with Simon Mckeown of the invalid carriage register untaxed since 1st August 2004, Date of last V5C (logbook) issued, 3 February 1999

mk70.jpg

I never knew it ended up in the classifieds at some point, I know it had an interesting history that im still trying to put together, but somethings did not add up (still dont quite! ) and going by its Aug 2004 tax due date I had just assumed it did end its days as a late service Ministry car so to speak but clearly thats not the case!

On 6/24/2020 at 8:02 PM, sdkrc said:

IMG_20200624_105229.jpg

 

if im reading things correctly this Classified ad is from 1998 which lines up with its last Keeper change, (interesting it was Marked Scrapped on the 17th of the 7th 1995, scrapped markers normally vanish if theres a keeper change after the date/ie you show its not scrapped)

image.png.15b603449f9001c2cc51afd0aeb15d47.png

I will say one thing, someones got brass balls selling it in 1998! that would have very much been stolen government property back then LOL but luckily it has escaped any reg shenanigans and all its details match up :) (I have seen its chassis number on both its VIN plate and chassis itself)

 

 

as a side note when I saw it was a classified ads post you where linking to I was kinda hoping you found the MCA Trike, but still very cool to know more of VPF :) always very exciting to learn more history of anyones invalid vehicle! :) 

image.png

"after 147 lessons and nearly two years" I hope thats not a sign of things to come or some sort of Curse of the invacar LOL

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2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

well nothing stopped you buying/selling one back then, its just if it was not a private example like REV is (which VPF441M is not)

then it very much was stolen government property!, and the IVS/DHSS could well snatch it back from you! so the seller had some balls selling it like that! (not to mention I imagine there would have been a bit of an investigation into how it escaped and someone along that chain would get reprimanded) 

its why most government Invalid vehicles sold privately back then before ~2004 where rung, to stop them being traced/taken back by the IVS/DHSS! and it was sadly this sort of shenanigans and the illegitimate owners doing stupid things with their invacars caused the IVS/DHSS to clamp down even harder on their policy of "mutilate beyond economic repair"

which spelt the death knell for many much rarer makes and models of invalid vehicles, where sadly no examples are known to survive today

 

of course thankfully none of this is an issue now and after 2004 any invalid vehicles which somehow survived became public domain in effect, as the department that owned them ceased to exist and the government in general does not care about them in that way anymore 

 

1 hour ago, quicksilver said:

Wow, that's a bit cheeky. Either it stayed below the radar or the government just didn't care as the fact it still exists suggests they never bothered to reclaim it. I wonder how long it's been in private ownership, possibly since that last V5 was issued in 1999.

dragging this over to my thread as theres some more info on VPF here and to stop people getting twitchy!

 

I did a bit of digging and dug up some of VPF's history I was told a while back although the wording is not very clear,  it sounds like the IVS did actually try and take it back, but the last keeper contested stedfast refused to give it back and somehow kept it and and ran around with it (on L plates?) until he crashed it!  

that last part I know is true as although its hard to see but there is damage to the front side, I guess it was T boned? (either that or someone did a reverse J turn into a lamp post LOL funnily enough supposedly the gearbox is stuck in reverse! so who knows!)

I never knew it was sold back in 98, until now,  I had wondered when I was told the person refused to give it back if that was referring to the end of the IVS scheme 2004! I guess its just a coincidence in this case that its tax ran out in 04! because I had wondered if there where any long time Invacar users who at the end in 2003/2004 tried to refuse giving back their trike!

 

it is interesting to note that the advert says "thats my granddad used it for" I have to wonder if it was issued to his Grandad by the IVS/DHSS, but then at some point something happened and he simply transferred the V5 to his name!

"oh poor grandads passed away, ill take his invacar" and they got to it before the DHSS could take it back LOL

because remember vehicles issued to users on a permeant bases where put into that persons name, (its a very good example of registered keeper does not mean owner!)

but nothing would stop you transferring the keepership to someone else, although I imagine the IVS/DHSS would not be happy with you if ya did! but if the poor guy died nothing would stop you taking the V5 and doing a keeper transfer with it!

 

the only thing I dont know sadly is, who held the V5 paperwork physically, I dont know if it was something the user had, or if it was stored on file somewhere at the IVS/DHSS or at the AR responsible for maintaining it, or the ALAC that issued it etc

 

 

as a side note, while "season ticket for all matches" makes me laugh it also makes me wonder, where Invalid vehicle users granted free access to football matches? I sort of assumed they still had to pay for tickets! just they where allowed to park near the pitch but I dont know tbh! football is not really my thing!

also reminds me of the question I have wondered about/mentioned in the past that is, when was the practice of allowing invalid vehicles pitch side stopped? ,or is it still technically allowed? LOL

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1 minute ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Why not write to football clubs to see if they have any data, especially if there are photographs or film footage of three wheelers on the touchline?

On ICR headed notepaper for best results. 

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30 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Why not write to football clubs to see if they have any data, especially if there are photographs or film footage of three wheelers on the touchline?

yeah I could and probably will in time for the reasons you mention, but I was just wondering if anyone here knew anything off hand :) 

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On 4/2/2020 at 11:01 PM, LightBulbFun said:

(I must have the only 3 letter name no one knows how to spell correctly :mrgreen: )

 

I have the only 3 letter surname nobody knows how to pronounce! Unless I go to Warwickshire.

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this is exciting! 

just got a whole bunch of photos etc on the Mystery NI Model 70 :)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/carsyoudontseeanymore/permalink/2806238413031039/

looks like its UOI8850, under going some serious restoration! out of necessity it looks like, as it was dragged out of the undergrowth after 20 years (or even longer I suspect going by its 1991 scrapped marker) which has clearly not been kind to it sadly

but its very cool to see a Model 70 get some love and a new survivor especially a northern Ireland one :) 

also if im not mistaken pressed metal Serck plates FTW (cc @MorrisItalSLX )

image.thumb.png.e2cbe88bc2c822a8c60547a5908b46f8.png

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in other invacar news this very interesting 1960s spot was posted on the microcar world FB page https://www.facebook.com/groups/950689934973969/permalink/3086153661427575/

106010478_279780606709332_4926732617951968181_n.thumb.jpg.19011cabd47be46175dcbf5b13c19346.jpg

very interesting because its an Invacar Mk12 with Mk12 no suffix non glass side windows but has the later large rear window

 

as seen here the very first Mk12's had a smaller rear window and non glass side windows 

image.thumb.png.6e993c1201dbb1ade95c7a1d2ac374cb.png

its said that the Mk12A introduced glass side windows, and I had sort of assumed that with that the larger rear window was introduced as well, but clearly thats not the case!

I do know from the second shot/car, that at least in Jan 1961 (as thats when xxxUPU was first issued) they still had the original setup and supposedly Mk12A was introduced in April 1962, so clearly the combo of large rear window but non glass side windows was not around for long

(assuming the Mk12A introduction date is accurate)

have to say I do prefer the atheistic of the smaller rear window and rounded corners of the non glass side windows, but I know the larger rear window and glass side windows are much more practical!

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On 6/14/2020 at 7:11 PM, LightBulbFun said:

continuing the exciting/interesting Model 70 news, @st185cs shared with me just now this rather interesting letter he found with a NOS Front Coil-over he has in his personal spares stash

image.thumb.png.7d2d11aab1c072600cfb5afdd96c56ce.png

its very interesting to me, because It answers a few questions I had

in that my research showed me that, although most Model 70's today have Adjustable spax's fitted all round (including REV AFAIK!) that the Model 70 would have originally equipped with armstrong shocks all round, indicating the Spax's would have been a later in life fitment 

so I had wondered what exactly was the deal there, being adjustable, where they preset from the factory/DHSS Stores, or did the AR have to adjust them to spec before fitting them?

It would be interesting to see the same letter for the rear spax shocks, but we have not come across one yet sadly

the box for the coil-over as well as having the DHSS Store No on it STY197 has what looks to be the spax part number? on it

image.thumb.png.2af0106cccfa2db6d5204a9527155fff.png

I wonder if spax has any info on these Model 70 shocks still? :) it would also be interesting to hear if anyone familiar with Spax shocks has anything to say on it all :) 

continuing the shocks stuff @st185cs has just managed to unearth the same paperwork but for the rear shocks this time :) 

443DC2F1-D7DD-47E2-BF9D-F44DED5EE0AD.jpeg

its interesting to see that the rears are set to 7 clicks clockwise compared to 5 clicks clockwise of the front shock

obviously they are not the same type so its not going to be directly comparable but its still interesting to see :) and makes sense the rears would be firmer then the front as the rear is where most of the weight is

I wonder @st185cs do you happen to have the box of one of the rear spax shocks may have come in? would be interesting to see what its Spax part number is (well at least I assume on the front shocks in my quoted post that "G81AZ-EK" is the spax PN for them, along with the STY number of course which I know is the DHSS Store No/PN for them)

as a side note its interesting to note that STY228 is not actually listed in my Parts list but is listed in the index sheet at the end go figure!

its also interesting to note that it has the same 5 Dec 1991 date as the letter for the rear shocks which further makes me think that is when Spax shocks where introduced, and helps gives me some rough idea of when REV (and other Model 70's) was last fettled because she is fitted with Spax shocks all round IIRC! :) 

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10 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

"G81AZ-EK" is the spax PN for them,

That is the Spax number though the format has now changed somewhat.  It is normally stamped on the unit, at the bottom near the adjuster, not always easy to read  with the unit in place. 

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4 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

That is the Spax number though the format has now changed somewhat.  It is normally stamped on the unit, at the bottom near the adjuster, not always easy to read  with the unit in place. 

ah cool, good to know ill have to keep an eye out for it :) 

do you know if the PNs are decodable into anything or are they just randomly assigned digits/letters?

 

as I type this up a picture of the box has arrived from @st185cs :) 

3614BF74-E979-4539-9498-42BCF7906467.jpeg

and its interesting to note how it is only 1 digit off from the front shock, so they are obviously part of the same series or created together or something such if that makes sense! :) (I do notice the EK is missing off the end of the part number rear shocks, I wonder if thats because the front is a shock+spring unit ie a complete coil-over unit, where as on the rear suspension the shocks and springs are separate parts so the rear shocks would just be rear shocks no springs)

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That is the adjuster.  The numbers can be decoded up to a point, but I'm not too familiar with that early format.  The G means gas filled which most are.   I don't know the suffix letters. a different system is now used but as you guessed they do indicate things like whether it has a spring seat. 

I don't think I have the catalogue now unfortunately.  IIRC  the number was frequently 1 digit apart for front and rear on the same vehicle but it wasn't entirely logical.   There was almost no interchangeability between vehicles (at least officially) they all had dedicated part numbers.   

There was and presumably still is a standard range of competition car dampers in a range of sizes, which would be the place to start for equivalents.    Not cheap tho.

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just got off the phone with the chap who owns the NI Model 70, he does not do the internet (but has others to do that for him :)

was nice chatting, he was very thankful for the workshop manual I forwarded to him via his friend on facebook, so happy to hear that got to him and I was able to help out there!

and had a good general chat about his Model 70, where/how he found it and what it needs, and he also mentioned of other Model 70's he knows of which is very exciting! he said he knows a chap who was heavily involved with them back in the day (sounds like an Ex AR guy to me), and has 2 one thats been restored and one in need of restoration and supposedly said chap also helped restore WOI654 (the Ulster car) but sadly he does not know the registrations of these 2 Invalid vehicles (I assume they are Model 70's but ya never know!) hopefully he can get them at some point :) he also mentioned how someone told him they knew of an Invacar stuck in a ditch somewhere, but details where vague and we both said, for all we know it could just be a blue reliant robin! but will be interesting to know more about that one!

 

one of the things that came to mind during the phone call is id like to once REV and Dolly are on the road and in good fettle etc is to go through the remaining parts in the parts stash and distribute them as needed to help as many Model 70's out there as possible :) 

I have had quite a few people (relatively speaking) ask me about parts etc, but obviously im dont want to just give away parts from my parts stash without knowing what REV and Dolly need from it first!

another thing id like to do, is just go through them and try and note down as many manufacturers part numbers as possible and figure out what other vehicles used said part etc so we dont have to be so reliant on Model 70 specific part stashes etc

for example recently I have had Brian (Owner of the ex Q car MPH759P) and the NI guy today ask me about brake shoes, but I dont actually know what their part number is or what other vehicles used them, it seems like although similar they are not the same as Mini brake shoes apparently, so im curious exactly what they are from!

although while typing this I had just remembered this very handy PDF @egg shared a good while back! 

https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/94895fc8/files/uploaded/GIRLING VEHICLE APPLICATIONS. AC. ABARTH. ALFA. ASTON MARTIN%2C AUSTIN. HEALEY. BARRETT%2C BOND%2C CLAN%2C DAIMLER%2C ELVA. 1960-85.pdf

image.thumb.png.13b84a8603944ec39f440ee542e5f4ae.png

so that solves the brake shoes issue at least :) 

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3 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

Number one rule of owning a rare classic car,keep all spares.

while yeah its good to have a goods spares stash and as mentioned I dont want to do anything before I know REV and Dolly are well sorted and obviously I would like to keep some stuff on hand should anything break etc!

I also would like to help as many invalid vehicle owners out there as I can, so if I end up with surplus of some part that someone else needs to get on their invalid vehicle on the road then id like to be able to help that person out :) im not just in this for myself!

 

and also as mentioned id also like to just try and ID where parts come from and what other vehicles they are shared with, what might seem like a very rare Model 70 part might actually be a really common part just under another mfg's part number etc!

that way we can be less reliant on spares stashes and just say "oh yeah you need part number so and so" like with the brake shoes above or before that when Brian needed a brake light switch for his Model 70, I figured out what its actual lucas part number was so he was able to order one up no problem (lucas 34619A for those wondering!) without having to raid anyones parts stash :) 

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13 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Herald/Spitfire rears, also Marina and some Escorts.

ah cool thats good to know! I was wondering what they where shared with :)  I did google GBB45774CF but only came across a couple scant mentions of spitfire's

im guessing they may be listed under different part numbers these days? (especially as I imagine manufacturers other then girling probably made/make compatible shoes etc and others may be listed under say Triumphs own PN system etc!)

 I did google Spitfire rear brake shoes and they seem to match and are look to be relatively plentiful so thats good! :) 

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