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LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...


LightBulbFun

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in other Invacar news looks like LNO970P has had her centrifugal clutch relined :) (which I think explains the picture Scott posted a while back of her up on a lift, did wonder what that was about)

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1630001453826078&id=353582511467985

gives a good picture of what the clutch assembly of a Model 70 looks like :) 

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have asked scott if LNO970P is being pressed into use or not :) it would be nice to know if another Model 70 will be joining TPA621M and MPH759P on the road :) 

EDIT:

Scott says LNO970P is on the road, but the clutch was for another one of his cars he just provided a picture of LNO970P to remind them what an Invacar is! (Im not sure if he meant another Model 70 or another car in his collection in general, but he does own several Model 70's and im pretty positive the picture of the clutch is of a Model 70 one from what I have seen in the workshop manual etc!)

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Scott confirmed that yeah its for another Model 70, he has 2 that are road worthy, I asked if the 2nd was RPU821R to which he confirmed it is :) 

although he said LNO970P is the one he tends to use the most, he said does not use them daily but when he is in the mood is known to travel up 200 miles in  day with his Model 70's and and throughly enjoys it 

which im always happy to hear about :) 

 

and in "WPD607G" news, I was sent a video of it moving under its own power! :)  turns out all the missing engine bits where in the cabin :) 

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10 hours ago, Eyersey1234 said:

I wonder which is the highest mileage Model 70. They probably didn't do many miles when the DHSS were using them as I would imagine they were mostly used for popping to the shops etc in

highest milage I have seen is about 100K, but thats when the odometer runs out of digits!

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but you are right that most where used just for shopping runs and clocked very little miles,

about 20K-30K is what I see on most surviving Model 70's

 

 

in other news, continuing to speak with Scott, he mentioned the Clutch shoes are actually for TTW991R which he hopes to have on the road by next year :) 

am happy to hear another Model 70 is being recommissioned :) 

and he managed to grab a picture of the Chassis plates on his 2 AC Acedes Model 57's he has for me :) 

the exciting one is he has 1940PE, which is a Private example, and until today I had never seen the Chassis plate of any private AC invalid vehicle

so that was quite interesting to study, as somewhat expected from AC who did things more properly, theres no half arsed "tippexed" over "government property" line like there is on REV's Chassis plate

it just does not have that government property line, it also curiously enough does not actually say what Mk it is or that is an Acedes (although it clearly is one and its a Mk9 at that :) )

it just says "Petrol invalid tricycle" (im all the more curious to see what the Chassis plate of a Private AC Model 70 looks like now!)

(EDIT: looking at the photos some more, I noticed the Private Acedes Chassis plate is actually the same as the Government ones, they just physically chopped off the entire bottom section that included the Goverment property notice as well as the Model and Mark info LOL and of course its stamped with a Private chassis number rather then a Ministry one)

he also quite excitingly has the V5 for it, its original  and only V5 that was issued to it when it was transferred  from its buff logbook to the V5 scheme

and thats been very interesting to study :) it has a revenue weight listed as 279.4Kg surprisingly light, given a Mk12E is 305Kg (still dont know what a Model 67 is sadly) (it would be interesting to see if that .4 is there on its next V5, as iv mentioned before REV is listed as 413.2Kg on her 1985 V5 but 413.0kg by her 2001 one,)

and most interestingly (and one for @quicksilver given our talk about this at the FoD) its make is down as "AC" yet it shows up on the DVLA as "AC (ELECTRIC)" like most AC Cars Ltd vehicles do, but keep in mind its only ever had 1 V5 issued

which tells me that clearly, the look up table for the make code Z0 which is the make code for AC (ELECTRIC), was changed from AC to AC (ELECTRIC) for some reason at some point in time (after 1983 if this V5 is anything to go by)

it is interesting because there is a separate make code for "AC" I have to wonder if someone updated the wrong make code at some point or something such

it would be very interesting to see a 1983 or older V5 for an AC Model 70 (especially one post DVLC computerisation) and see if it was indeed registered as simply "AC" rather than "AC (ELECTRIC)"

 

as explained here

On 18/09/2020 at 21:42, LightBulbFun said:

thats not a bad theory, I do know that a lot of makes have their own "DTP Make code" which is a unique code for a given vehicle manufacture I think it is something that goes way back to the start of the computerisation, I would not be surprised if vehicle records where stored in codes rather then full words to save space, but im not 100% sure (googling DTP Make code does bring up much sadly!)

I know for example "INVACAR" is ZA, "AC (ELECTRIC)" is Z0 and "TIPPEN DELTA" is Z5, so it obviously goes some way back if they have a dedicated make code for Invacar and Tippen Delta!  (and for those curious all the obscure makes and things with typos etc just get lumped under the code G9)

and I know back in the day when looking up a vehicle on the DVLA checker you had to type it in and it would give you a drop down list chose the make it was

so perhaps they still use a similar system on the back end? (I know the body type of a vehicle is also stored in code "invalid vehicle" is 08 and "Tricycle" is 09 and 02 is "4 Door saloon" for example)

 

perhaps when the V55/5 or whatever reaches their end the clerk first checks if the make written on the form already exists on the DVLA computer already and if it does they chose it from the drop down menu, and if it does not they enter it manually?

 

heres a web archive link to an old version of the DLVA checker, obviously does not work, but you can start typing makes and it will bring up the drop down menu 

http://web.archive.org/web/20140716041918/https://www.vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/

 

and for those curious about past pre 1931 age related plate's issued

 

 

(wonder if I should have just dragged this whole thing back over to my thread!)

clearly back when the computer system was new, major makes where put into coded form, I imagine to keep space used to a minimum 

so rather then on each individual vehicle record having to store "TIPPEN DELTA" they just had to store "Make: Z5" and then there would be a look up table to translate Z5 back to Tippen Delta at least thats my theory on it all!

 

1940PE is also one of the "not taxed for on road use" vehicles and indeed like that Heinkel scooter I posted about a while ago, it indeed has "taxation class: not licensed" on the V5

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Had lesson 52 today, last one before the Test on Tuesday (October the 13th)

went pretty well, but it was chucking it down throughout the whole lesson so that was "fun" to deal with, also lots of road works/closures and traffic chaos as a result...

so hopefully the wether is better during the test at least!

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and it Looks like Scott is also selling one of His Mk12's this is one the Ex Trysull cars I think so AFAIK no known chassis number sadly

https://www.facebook.com/groups/950689934973969/permalink/3391396830903255/

it does actually have a door tho! should have advertised it something like

"Invacar Mk12 Door £1300, comes with Free Rest of Mk12 also" 

:mrgreen:

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48 minutes ago, egg said:

Umm, I know a MK12 with a V5. Not that I'd condone that kind of thing!! 😂

It's better than XWC, but not loads and loads better.

edit: Ok, maybe it is. But still a fair bit of work.

yeah it is quite the shame the Chassis plate is missing as it is all there otherwise for the most part (ie all the bodywork is present), I do hope in time I able to find a chassis number on the actual chassis of a Mk12, so I can identify these chassis plateless machines

although I do wonder how accurate his comment about the chassis being ok is! given that these came from similar sort of conditions that XWC468F was found in

sadly the Villers machines have much less robust chassis then the Model 70, and so do tend to get quite crispy especially as most have been sitting around for 40-50 years in some pretty harsh conditions

 

it is funny how many Mk12's I have seen crop up for sale in the past couple years, many more then I have Model 70's! but there are far less known surviving Mk12's then there are Model 70's I think its just a supply and demand thing, most people who want an "Invacar" want a Model 70, not a Villiers powered machine

and most Villiers Powered machines that do crop up for sale are generally not in the best of shape sadly, compared to the Model 70's that have seen shown up, so more people are trying to shift em then there are people buying em

 

 

while im on this subject Big al has one for sale in similar condition but with chassis plate if anyone is interested in a Mk12 that can be positively ID'ed etc

 

he recently posted this picture of it which looks all sorts of wrong LOL

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Funny looking Citroen eh LOL it IS blue LOL

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10 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

Had lesson 52 today, last one before the Test on Tuesday (October the 13th)

went pretty well, but it was chucking it down throughout the whole lesson so that was "fun" to deal with, also lots of road works/closures and traffic chaos as a result...

so hopefully the wether is better during the test at least!

Good luck with your test @LightBulbFun

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7 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

yeah it is quite the shame the Chassis plate is missing as it is all there otherwise for the most part (ie all the bodywork is present), I do hope in time I able to find a chassis number on the actual chassis of a Mk12, so I can identify these chassis plateless machines

although I do wonder how accurate his comment about the chassis being ok is! given that these came from similar sort of conditions that XWC468F was found in

sadly the Villers machines have much less robust chassis then the Model 70, and so do tend to get quite crispy especially as most have been sitting around for 40-50 years in some pretty harsh conditions

 

it is funny how many Mk12's I have seen crop up for sale in the past couple years, many more then I have Model 70's! but there are far less known surviving Mk12's then there are Model 70's I think its just a supply and demand thing, most people who want an "Invacar" want a Model 70, not a Villiers powered machine

and most Villiers Powered machines that do crop up for sale are generally not in the best of shape sadly, compared to the Model 70's that have seen shown up, so more people are trying to shift em then there are people buying em

 

 

while im on this subject Big al has one for sale in similar condition but with chassis plate if anyone is interested in a Mk12 that can be positively ID'ed etc

 

he recently posted this picture of it which looks all sorts of wrong LOL

image.thumb.png.5a5f74048f10d5060b4f32624d49fa43.png

Funny looking Citroen eh LOL it IS blue LOL

image.thumb.png.4b5a84be12f798a3fab4737ea342d897.png

Wonder how it ended up on a K plate

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4 hours ago, Eyersey1234 said:

Wonder how it ended up on a K plate

 

18 minutes ago, barrett said:

I think that's just the number plate from the vehicle behind placed there for the photo...

Yeah I think it was just stuck on for the LOLs as they say

its from a BX thats being scrapped sadly (I do know the actual registration of the above Mk12)

although there where K plate Mk12's they where all K suffix plates!

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LOL Yeah I think the number is at 38, cuz XWC468F is the 37th known surviving Invacar Mk12, then ONO454D popped up in NI making 38

(all the other Invacar Mk12's that have been for sale have been previously known ones)

and I suspect we will see more, as I know at least Big al has 4 more floating around (all of which do have VIN plates and I have identified for the most part :)

 

and as a side note I think we might see 1940PE (and the other Ministry machine it lives with it) pop up for sale as well, im a bit worried that 1940PE will get bought just for its number plate....

(Although by the rules of the DVLA, it cant be robbed of its number plate, as to take the plate of a vehicle it needs to be of a type that needs an MOT certificate, and Invalid carriages bellow 306Kg do not...)

but thats sadly not  stopped less scrupulous people in the past

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4 hours ago, Cavcraft said:

Good luck with your test, captain.

Thanks I really just just hope I dont cock it up again! as I really want to pass and finally get it over and done with, (if nothing else its been quite draining on the ol wallet front)

tho I do have a slight plan for what to do if I do fail again LOL

which is sack off the current instructor, then figure out what to do from there, (maybe actually do try and book the test so it is the day after whenever the next FoD gathering is? just have to make sure the 2CV or something equally confidence inspiring is there for me to thrash about in LOL)

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so managed to get a chance to chat stuart yesterday, (I noticed that facebook put out a desktop app version of their messenger platform so I installed that, hopefully it will be a bit more reliable at notifying me when someones messaged me)

discussed WPD607G a bit, and then also talked about how many Model 70's we think survive

current number sits at 89 :) hopefully we will hit the magical 100 at some point as more and more come out of the woodwork 

but it is worth noting that this does include some cars that are not entirely verified (like JHJ548N, which was last pictured in the 1990's with the last signs of activity on the DVLA in 2009, and we have no idea who actually owned or owns it, so we sadly dont actually know if it survives or not, id like to think she does! but its not verified sadly)

and it includes also some others like the Rolling chassis cars, and  if those do or do not those count as survivors is up to debate

but for the sake of this calculation they have been included (and even if you remove the unverified/grey area cars etc I think we are still at about 80 survivors :) 

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On 11/10/2020 at 04:06, mitsisigma01 said:

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Just nicked this off Saabnuts post, they are still around but probably a modern 

yeah I saw those bit funky seeing them in "modern" liveries :) 

I do wonder yeah if those are the same ones from the 1940s or 1950s or different/later ones 

 

 

BTW for @quicksilver forgot to mention this the other day but it looks like someones stolen one of your youtube videos and re-uploaded it to Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/yogi.jumiranto/videos/4075716502445133

 

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On 11/10/2020 at 13:53, LightBulbFun said:

so managed to get a chance to chat stuart yesterday, (I noticed that facebook put out a desktop app version of their messenger platform so I installed that, hopefully it will be a bit more reliable at notifying me when someones messaged me)

discussed WPD607G a bit, and then also talked about how many Model 70's we think survive

current number sits at 89 :) hopefully we will hit the magical 100 at some point as more and more come out of the woodwork 

but it is worth noting that this does include some cars that are not entirely verified (like JHJ548N, which was last pictured in the 1990's with the last signs of activity on the DVLA in 2009, and we have no idea who actually owned or owns it, so we sadly dont actually know if it survives or not, id like to think she does! but its not verified sadly)

and it includes also some others like the Rolling chassis cars, and  if those do or do not those count as survivors is up to debate

but for the sake of this calculation they have been included (and even if you remove the unverified/grey area cars etc I think we are still at about 80 survivors :) 

Just realised we are actually over the 90 as I just remembered about 3 more Model 70's

theres the orange one here https://www.farmlocations.co.uk/shoot-locations/easthouse-farm/ I still need to chase up

Easthouse-Farm-_-Machinery-_-Invacar-_-Humber-800x533.jpg

then theres the Unknown Model 70 and the Tippen Delta owned by (I think @barrett's friend?) a chap called Duncan with the Fiat S76 

and another Model 70 and Tippen Delta Pair owned by someone else that im still waiting for details

(its amusing at one point I knew of 3 separate Model 70 and Tippen Delta pairs, but the SPE351R/HCK972N pair have been split up now)

so that takes us to 92 surviving Model 70's :) (give or take a few grey area cars) 

as a side note I added the recently Papped AC Acedes Mk14 or Mk14A Model 67 to the forum thread survivors list now I have a picture of it at least :) 

 

 

28 minutes ago, eifion said:

As I use Adrian Flux I get marketing emails from them. The latest includes an article on Invalid Trikes.

ah thats cool that they are still sharing it :) I appreciate the heads up :) 

it was first shared to me a year ago where I left my slightly rambly opinion on it if your wondering what I thought of it at the time LOL (TL;DR its much better then most blog posts about Invacars, but there are still a few mistakes/holes in it)

 

On 21/10/2019 at 20:54, JJ0063 said:

Haven’t read this thread for a while but have you seen the latest Influx post? 
 

https://www.influx.co.uk/cars/invalid-trikes/

 

On 21/10/2019 at 21:32, LightBulbFun said:

ah very cool I have not seen that post before, thanks for the tip off :) 

props to whoever wrote its pretty damn well done, much better then most of the stuff you read on the internet about invalid vehicles!

 

but sadly there's still a few holes!,

the villiers machines where rear wheel drive, not front wheel drive (I suspect they are thinking of the Bond Mini car which was Front wheel drive), but like a bond Mini car, they are also single wheel drive, despite the 2 rear wheels!

and like a Model 70, the villiers machine could also theoretically do top speed in reverse via the fact in a Villiers machine to reverse, you simple ran the engine backwards because 2 stroke :) this meant you could select all 4 gears in reverse!

from what I understand (and hope to find out for myself in time!) a Model 70 will cruise and handle happily at 60-70Mph if in good fettle and especially if on 10 inch wheels, as TPA demonstrates! and Im pretty sure a 493cc Model 70 can do 82Mph, so who knows what a 650cc one would top out at! only 1 or MAYBE 2 (depending on if Derry preston cobs upgrade was actually finished) Model 70's were built with 650cc engines the rest had 493cc engines (I have had someone I trust tell me they had 78 Mph showing on the speedo of their 493cc powered Model 70!)

a LOT of the criticisms you hear about invalid vehicles, are actually of the Villers machines, sadly most people don't know/see the different Models, so the Model 70 gets unfairly tarred with the same brush

(you will hear someone talk about their experience of an invalid vehicle and they will say "it rolled over onto its only door" so clearly not a Model 70 or something such, and yet the person/whatever doing the interview will show a picture of a Model 70 or such!)

AC went all out when designing and building the Model 70 as such its not like any other previous Invalid vehicle at all, but sadly few people realise that

and finally you DO NOT have to re-register or change anything with an invalid vehicle, all you need to do is Get the V5 change the Tax class from disabled to Historic and your off to the races :) (and if you are disabled you don't even have to change the tax class if you dont want to!)

its a very common misconception that you have to "re-register" them as Tricycles, sadly I suspect will be battling with this one for a long time since @dollywobbler mentioned incorrectly that you have to re-register them as trikes, a few times in various videos of his

I'd like someday to make a "invacar fact check" or "Corrections" video with him someday, clarifying things and debunking all the rumors and miss information that is out there about them :)

oh and there was also the Electric Tippen Delta which continued in production* until 1976, so not all invalid vehicles from 1971 where Steyr puch powered

(*Electric tippen Deltas after 1970 or so where actually older petrol ones converted to electric and refurbished, making them one of the first if not the first case of mass conversion of a Petrol vehicle to electric!)

(there was also a small overlap of Invacar Mk12 Production and AC Model 70 production from the end of July 1971 to the start of November 1971 or so) 

and finally to be pedantic, technically the colour was not fully standardized on the light blue/green that Model 70s etc are, in that the the Model 57 and 64 continued in their darker blue right until the end of production in 1971 or so

 

and theres a few other things but its probably best I not ramble on anymore! LOL

(slight corrections to my quoted ramble above the Electric Tippen Delta (Model 69E) remained in "production" until they very end of new invalid vehicle production in 1978, and the Model 64 was produced/issued until April 1972)

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18 hours ago, timolloyd said:

Good luck for tomorrow!

 

11 hours ago, HarmonicCheeseburger said:

Studiosity - Good luck to everyone sitting NAPLAN this week! You've got  this. 🤜 And if you want to take a last-minute practice test to get a feel  for what to expect,

 

2 hours ago, Mrs6C said:

All the best for today! :-)

 

2 hours ago, Cavcraft said:

Good luck, captain!

 

17 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Finger X for you

Thanks all :), im feeling a little bit more blasé about it all this time round, not sure if thats a good or a bad thing LOL

 

10 minutes ago, mitsisigma01 said:

You better pass, you've got a circular fluorescent light to collect ASAP!!! 

 haha yeah, I still have the 2 1963 40W 4ft T12 Woods glass ultraviolet (black light blue) fluorescent tubes waiting for me at @Skizzer's place and a whole bunch of other lightbulb and computer related stuff over at @Zelandeth's! (and the Bayonet capped tubes over at Stuarts place)

I do very much look forward to seeing how many fluorescent tubes and other lightbulbs I can cram into an Invacar :) 

 

I really just want to pass and finally get this over with so I dont have to worry about it anymore and can focus even more on other things like getting REV on the road etc

as the whole driving lessons/licence thing has dragged on for far longer then I originally anticipated 

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