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LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...


LightBulbFun

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so this is very exciting! https://www.facebook.com/groups/carsyoudontseeanymore/permalink/2794096480911899/

potentially new Model 70's for the survivors list!, they are not any I recognise right off the batt so im very curious as to what their details are!

104167601_2840103849450148_84806059899497926_n.thumb.jpg.2c45e61ea25fc21192b4932d4a49421e.jpg

as you can see I have left a comment, hopefully ill hear back! and then I can either get in contact with their owner and offer my support, or if they are abandoned/ownerless see if I can get them to a good home :) 

I was wondering if anyone here recognises them/the general location? (the person who posted it has from Broadstairs listed in their facebook profile but I have no idea if thats where the photo was taken etc)

 

many thanks to @Zie for bringing the post to my attention :) 

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1 minute ago, keef said:

Apparently these latest four are in Ramsgate, about 50 miles from me.

yeah saw he left that comment in response to someone else :) 

good to know they are somewhat nearby to at-least 1 shitter :) 

 

its always fun when a previous unknown invalid vehicles shows up especially if they are Model 70 because I have to wonder if its one iv already pulled up/talked at some point in time like "SPU145M"  :) 

wouldn't it be amazing if BPE29H was in there? one can dream/hope! 

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5 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

wouldn't it be amazing if BPE29H was in there? one can dream/hope! 

I'll have to search this thread to find out what is so special about that one. ;)

I've got my eye on an early cable change Maxi, that's an H reg. No doubt you will tell me WUD is a Invacar batch as well. :)

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20 minutes ago, keef said:

I'll have to search this thread to find out what is so special about that one. ;)

I've got my eye on an early cable change Maxi, that's an H reg. No doubt you will tell me WUD is a Invacar batch as well. :)

haha :)

17 minutes ago, keef said:

Ah right: a prototype. ;)

 

Yeah one of 20 Prototype Model 70's made to near production specifications about a year before Model 70 production actually started, for user trials etc :) 

its amazing that one looks to have made it right until the end! Id love to know what its story was or how many of its prototype features it still had by the end :)

its amazing because I would have expected that the Prototype cars would have been swapped out for production models once production started, but it looks like once a machine entered service it generally stayed in service unless something actively forces it out of service

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continuing the exciting/interesting Model 70 news, @st185cs shared with me just now this rather interesting letter he found with a NOS Front Coil-over he has in his personal spares stash

image.thumb.png.7d2d11aab1c072600cfb5afdd96c56ce.png

its very interesting to me, because It answers a few questions I had

in that my research showed me that, although most Model 70's today have Adjustable spax's fitted all round (including REV AFAIK!) that the Model 70 would have originally equipped with armstrong shocks all round, indicating the Spax's would have been a later in life fitment 

so I had wondered what exactly was the deal there, being adjustable, where they preset from the factory/DHSS Stores, or did the AR have to adjust them to spec before fitting them?

It would be interesting to see the same letter for the rear spax shocks, but we have not come across one yet sadly

the box for the coil-over as well as having the DHSS Store No on it STY197 has what looks to be the spax part number? on it

image.thumb.png.2af0106cccfa2db6d5204a9527155fff.png

I wonder if spax has any info on these Model 70 shocks still? :) it would also be interesting to hear if anyone familiar with Spax shocks has anything to say on it all :) 

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47 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

it would also be interesting to hear if anyone familiar with Spax shocks has anything to say on it all

Armstrongs were a basic non adjustable shock absorber, so would have been preset in manufacture.  I would guess Spax were an (expensive) alternative when Armstrong ceased production.  The adjustment was intended to compensate for wear as much as for "tuning" but it is a nice facility to have.  Spax would probably still have the specs and would make to order,  at a price. 

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23 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Armstrongs were a basic non adjustable shock absorber, so would have been preset in manufacture.  I would guess Spax were an (expensive) alternative when Armstrong ceased production.  The adjustment was intended to compensate for wear as much as for "tuning" but it is a nice facility to have.  Spax would probably still have the specs and would make to order,  at a price. 

ah yeah I figured it was something like that, I wonder what the setting translates to exactly ie when its 5 clicks clockwise, is that super soft or super hard etc,

interesting to hear its used to compensate for wear, I always thought of it as "performance" thing LOL, makes me wonder, what is the life time/wear rate for shocks like these?

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IIRC 5 clicks is about half way, can't remember how many there are now - 9? - but fully clockwise is so hard that it will stop the suspension working, which is not what you want even on a racer, you need to be able to feel any pitch/roll that is going on.  So usually you would start off with the softest setting and wind it up until it suits you.  Spax are well made and last a long time, it depends on the usage,  but you are talking many years - certainly not a service item.

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3 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

IIRC 5 clicks is about half way, can't remember how many there are now - 9? - but fully clockwise is so hard that it will stop the suspension working, which is not what you want even on a racer, you need to be able to feel any pitch/roll that is going on.  So usually you would start off with the softest setting and wind it up until it suits you.  Spax are well made and last a long time, it depends on the usage,  but you are talking many years - certainly not a service item.

ah interesting, I appreciate the info :) 

I wonder if the rears where set any different because obviously thats where all the weight is! but they are obviously different units in general to the front so perhaps they where also set to 5 , ie they where custom made with 5 being the factory preset to allow for adjustment up or down if needed?

@st185cs has kindly offered to count the clicks on one of his rears, but I figured its best not to mess with it until its really needed!

(IIRC @dollywobbler mentioned wanting to look at TWC's shocks I wonder if they just need some slight adjusting? :) )

good to know they are long life item! as mentioned REV is fitted with them which is interesting as it is good proof that the Ministry did indeed service private machines as if they where one of their own :) 

 

for what its worth heres some info I have on the OE Armstrong units, its interesting to note that all the Parallelogram front suspension machines, so AC Acedes Mk15, AC Model 64 Mk5 and Invacar Mk12E all list the same front armstrong shock absorber 62S0876 thats listed for the Model 70 as well :) 

image.thumb.png.689b61ec850e6608a8519f4eb1bf06fb.png

as a side note its interesting how the the different armstrong shocks are seemingly colour coded according to the DHSS spare parts list

like they say Colour coded WHITE for one type, then Colour coded PINK for another type

I wonder where this colour code is exactly because all the Model 70 Armstrong ones iv seen are blue in colour, but 62S0876 the front Armstrong shock is listed as colour coded white!

 

image.png

 

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The Spax adjusters do seize up, so yes, best left alone as far as possible.  Front and rear units are usually differently rated and/or have different travel, even if the mountings are the same.

The parts info is very well detailed.     Colour coding was probably just a splash of paint,  Armstrongs were generally metallic blue, earlier ones were black.

The main thing that strikes me about that list is that they ID the vehicles by reg. no, so I wonder how seriously they took the chassis numbers.  I've probably said before that it is easy to read too much into  correlation of chassis and reg. numbers.  Small car production is often quite chaotic and you mustn't assume that all the numbers were issued, or that the cars came off the line in numerical order.  Even with major manufacturers there can be gaps in the sequence, errors and omissions for all sorts of reasons.  So that may explain why some of your statistics do not add up. 

 

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4 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

The main thing that strikes me about that list is that they ID the vehicles by reg. no, so I wonder how seriously they took the chassis numbers.  I've probably said before that it is easy to read too much into  correlation of chassis and reg. numbers.  Small car production is often quite chaotic and you mustn't assume that all the numbers were issued, or that the cars came off the line in numerical order.  Even with major manufacturers there can be gaps in the sequence, errors and omissions for all sorts of reasons.  So that may explain why some of your statistics do not add up. 

they do ID vehicles by Chassis number and reg number and sometimes just by chassis number alone!, it depends which section your looking at :)

with Ministry invalid vehicles the registration numbers and chassis are directly tied together and go up together in numerical order for a given block, that much I can say for sure, from looking at/studying a few* thousand Ministry invalid vehicle registration and chassis numbers!

 

a lot of the current things im trying to figure out is why a block started the way it did but once your in a block it more or less all goes in order, 

for example they only made 2182 Model 64's but the chassis numbers seemingly started from the 6000s! but I recently partly uncovered why that is

On 5/18/2020 at 2:29 PM, LightBulbFun said:

so this is rather exciting!

I came across something I honestly did not expect to find, that is a private AC Model 64! 2 of them in fact!

1698310960_Screenshot2020-05-18at13_22_53.thumb.png.3846032f33f06b31713d263fdab1fa9c.png  2099292745_Screenshot2020-05-18at13_23_36.thumb.png.79d009c36fa918a230ebdf335bb8de3d.png  

while talking to stuart yesterday I came across a Model 64 chassis number, but this number did not quite fit in

in that it was a number from the low 5300's and was said to be from 1960 however the oldest Model 64 I have documented is 769RPJ with a chassis number in the low 6000's also from 1960!

now I highly doubted they made 700 Model 64's in the span of less then a year, the Model 64 was always a low production volume machine for fairly specialised use cases

so I decided to run chassis numbers 5300-5400 through my tool and low and behold I came across the 2 above! AFN207B and DAL480J, they are only separated by 4 numbers, but are obviously made years apart!

this, plus their non Surrey registration marks, means im pretty positive they are private AC Model 64's and I have found where the private AC Model 64's lived so to speak in the chassis number ranges (from what I have seen Private AC invalid vehicles where always part of their own chassis number ranges)

it goes part way to explaining the Model 64 chassis number weirdness, as I have mentioned before the Model 64 came out in 1958 on request of the MoH. and in total between 1958 to 1972 they supposedly made 2182 of them, but for some reason the chassis numbers seemingly started in the high 5900s/low 6000's, as documented here

now I know that at least part of that weirdness is because, the private cars seem to have resided in/allocated the 5300 range, I cant find anything in 5200 or 5400 ranges, but thats not too surprised tho, given how few private examples they looked to have sold, as mentioned both AFN207B and DAL480J are years apart but only 4 cars apart chassis number wise, and they are both mid 5300 cars, so I highly doubt they ever made it into the 5400 range

its not too surprising they sold so few private examples, even the Ministry Model 64's where quite unpopular with electric invalid vehicle users, so its no surprise they didn't sell many privately, infact im surprised any were sold at all!

and as mentioned I dont think AC expected to either the Model 64, is just known as the Model 64, no where on it does it have a marketing name such as Acedes like on the Model 57 and 67

 

its also interesting to note that, at least going by age/date of first registration, DAL480J is a Model 64 Mk5, in fact it was registered on the exact same date DPF678J was (a Ministry Model 64 Mk5) but because DAL470J was/is a private example, it still has the old Model 64 chassis number format, (when the AC Model 64 Mk5 was introduced they switched to a different chassis number format) again this is further proof that it is private example because for a given AC Model the private versions seemingly always followed the same chassis number format no matter what happened on the Ministry side, for example the Private Model 70's RRE20L and NPN924P both have the same general chassis number format, despite DHSS AC Model 70's having gone through several different chassis number blocks between the 2)

 

all in all some pretty exciting stuff!

thankfully I have all the Model 70 chassis numbers, chassis blocks and registration numbers pretty much entirely figured out :) (well apart from private examples but thats an entirely different ball game) 

I really do wish I could give more detailed info, show some actual registration and chassis numbers together etc then it would make a lot more sense and be a lot easier for me to explain!

however its far too easy for someone to do something nefarious with that information so I cant share it publicly sadly

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On 3/27/2020 at 11:49 PM, Zelandeth said:

Don't get too attached to that date, it could well wind up getting pushed back further depending on how things go.  Events in my diary in August have already been cancelled by the organisers and it's entirely possible this will get a lot worse before it gets better.

Hopefully it will be sorted by then, but for now all you can do is twiddle your thumbs and wait really.

Just sorry I can't offer any driving practice really at the moment (lockdown aside obviously!) because of the joys of insurance meaning I can't get short term cover for you on any of my vehicles.

10 Points to @Zelandeth 

actually kinda glad this happened because it gives me hopefully more time to get couple more lessons done or figure something out in regard to that!

393332497_Screenshot2020-06-15at16_58_52.thumb.png.e59e296eb925447a89c8b2ea59dcdc8e.png

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On 6/14/2020 at 2:57 PM, LightBulbFun said:

so this is very exciting! https://www.facebook.com/groups/carsyoudontseeanymore/permalink/2794096480911899/

potentially new Model 70's for the survivors list!, they are not any I recognise right off the batt so im very curious as to what their details are!

104167601_2840103849450148_84806059899497926_n.thumb.jpg.2c45e61ea25fc21192b4932d4a49421e.jpg

as you can see I have left a comment, hopefully ill hear back! and then I can either get in contact with their owner and offer my support, or if they are abandoned/ownerless see if I can get them to a good home :) 

I was wondering if anyone here recognises them/the general location? (the person who posted it has from Broadstairs listed in their facebook profile but I have no idea if thats where the photo was taken etc)

 

many thanks to @Zie for bringing the post to my attention :) 

My door is open for at least one !

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3 minutes ago, st185cs said:

Keep your mitts off my Invacars! ?

haha are they part of your stash then?

I had thought about it, but as per your sig you have more then "just" the 4 I can see there

unless you have them scattershot across various parts of Ramsgate? LOL

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in other IC news the ICR's website was updated slightly yesterday https://www.invalidcarriageregister.org/team

I guess this makes things that little bit more official :)

image.png.601e32510a097b740f2f1269cbb2b89b.png

fitting too because I just finished my first big project for the ICR just now, Simon wanted a spreadsheet of all the IC's that are known to be owned by museums/public bodies in the UK, with contact details and any known details on the ICs held etc so after a few weeks of work I just finished putting it together him :) 

(I also helped member of the public figure out what IC he had was for the ICR a little while back which was fun :) )

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4 minutes ago, mitsisigma01 said:

I expect you've already seen it, but for those that haven't 

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-year-of-the-disabled-1981-online

indeed I have :)  but I appreciate the heads up :) as a side note im surprised no one pointed out the Serck font number plates UOI4179 is pictured wearing, I think its the only Model 70 I have seen on Serck's :) 

 

On 4/29/2019 at 2:39 AM, LightBulbFun said:

For datsuncog?, some hot video action of UOI4719 on the road :)

 

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-year-of-the-disabled-1981-online

 

(sadly they dont show any other Model 70s)

also quoting @Datsuncog's response because its well worth a read :)

 

On 4/29/2019 at 11:28 AM, Datsuncog said:

 

Aw man, that's phenomenal - cheers for that!

 

I vaguely remember Counterpoint on UTV, and aside from the very pertinent debate about the suitability or otherwise of the 'trike' (as it's referred to throughout) as a means of transport for people with disabilities, that on-the-road footage is awesome.

 

As I think I posted earlier on from the Ulster Transport Museum information board, UOI4719 was owned by Mary Boyce who competed in national rallies in her Model 70 (seen here in the queue for the ferry at Belfast Harbour):

 

post-17915-0-07862700-1556532051_thumb.jpg

 

UOI might have had a fair few miles on it, if it was regularly driving down from Heysham to Silverstone!

 

The footage of UOI was filmed around the town of Newtownards in Co.Down, where I went to school - it's fantastic to see footage of High Street and Frances Street as they were in 1981.

 

post-17915-0-45080400-1556532443_thumb.png

 

post-17915-0-73435400-1556532463_thumb.png

 

post-17915-0-98929700-1556532501_thumb.png

 

The cars in the background were just street furniture then, but absolute gold now. That beige E70 Corolla would have been nearly new, and (as it's wearing a Co. Down plate) was most likely supplied by Rosepark Toyota, just a stone's throw away at the junction of the Portaferry Road.

 

think the residential area on the film is the maybe the Bowtown Estate, or possibly Ballybeen out towards Dundonald direction - but I can't be sure, as it was extensively remodelled in the 1990s, and all the older maisonettes flattened. It's definitely not the Scrabo Estate (older), or West Winds (built on reclaimed flood plain, and so very flat. And very wet, when it rains).

 

post-17915-0-93475400-1556532954_thumb.png

 

post-17915-0-48770900-1556532972_thumb.png

 

Again, Viva HCs, Mk3 Cortinas, B310 Datsun Sunnys and FE Victors... wow. I'm a bit young to remember these cars when they were common on local roads, so this is great to see.

 

Coincidentally, I was over in Ards on Saturday with MrsDC, ordering wallpaper and trying to look for some furniture.

 

'Thompson's The Bakers', on the corner of Conway Square and High St, is now a Caffe Nero.

 

post-17915-0-23261600-1556533303_thumb.png

 

The square's been fully pedestrianised for years now - I never remember traffic able to pass through it or park.

 

I also dragged MrsDC up and down several streets looking for a particular independent furniture store that used to sell interesting locally made pieces: "I'm sure it's around here - it's on a corner, beside an arcade."

 

post-17915-0-26175900-1556533437_thumb.png

 

Why, what's this, right at the end of the documentary?

 

post-17915-0-84310600-1556533472_thumb.png

 

It's the very shop. Now no longer there, it would seem, though clearly it was in the same spot for a very long time.

 

Cheers again!

 

PLUS: bonus Renault R15 action at the 18:00 minute mark... 3-stud wheels FTW. Phoarrr.

 

post-17915-0-94641600-1556533585_thumb.png

 

 

 

Incidentally, I've had no response via official email channels from the Ulster Transport Museum re. having a proper look at WOI - so if there's no further response to my reminder email, then my next move is to call on my contact...

 

 

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11 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

in other IC news the ICR's website was updated slightly yesterday https://www.invalidcarriageregister.org/team

I guess this makes things that little bit more official :)

image.png.601e32510a097b740f2f1269cbb2b89b.png

fitting too because I just finished my first big project for the ICR just now, Simon wanted a spreadsheet of all the IC's that are known to be owned by museums/public bodies in the UK, with contact details and any known details on the ICs held etc so after a few weeks of work I just finished putting it together him :) 

(I also helped member of the public figure out what IC he had was for the ICR a little while back which was fun :) )

Well done chap. Bet you're tickled to be official! 

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22 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

The whole director name tagging does make me giggle a bit.

ah what can I say LOL

 

the page does show well, how the ICR has drifted more to charity and social/social history work and away from actual invalid carriage work and being a knowledge base for all things invalid vehicle sadly

but thats exactly why I have jumped onboard I hope to pull it back on course so to speak :) 

or more exactly im happy to let Simon and Co do their thing, and hopefully I can do actual invalid carriage register things for the ICR if that makes sense LOL

the social stuff etc is cool and all dont get me wrong, but as well documented on this thread my major gripe with it all was/is how the ICR was/is badly letting down its original purpose to be a knowledge base for all things invalid vehicles, and to be there to help all the known surviving invalid vehicles and invalid vehicle owners out there! 

which the ICR is sadly not doing very well currently

 

a good example of how things have gone backwards sadly is nowhere on the current website is there anything about any of the different invalid vehicles out there

but there was one  stuarts old website which Simon for reasons I still dont fully understand sadly took down!

but the web archive thankfully has crawled the website in the past and saved em for the most part :) 

http://web.archive.org/web/20160722202357/https://invalidcarriageregister.wordpress.com/

 

so yeah hoping I can help take over "that" roll which will then also hopefully allow simon more time etc to do/focus on what he really wants to do 

while I handle the guy thats just dug 3 Model 70's and half an Invacar Mk12 out of his back garden so to speak!

and that way everyone is happy all round!

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