invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

new V5 for REV has finally arrived yay  

taxation class correctly changed and no typos in the personal details I updated at the same time, someone really is putting in the effort at the DVLA! LOL

(as a side note I find the symmetry of "INVALID VEHICLE" "HISTORIC VEHICLE" oddly pleasing LOL)

[keef]

I am surprised the computer accepted it, if it is invalid.   Don't you just love the English language?

[LightBulbFun]

30 minutes ago, keef said:

I am surprised the computer accepted it, if it is invalid.   Don't you just love the English language?

could be worse, the owner of MPH759P did not realise he had to still go through the motions of taxing it etc, because he saw "taxation class: disabled" and thought it meant that tax had been disabled for this vehicle LOL

 

and on a similar note to complicate matters, "Tricycle" is both a Taxation class and a Body type!

which has sadly led to a lot of invalid vehicles like @dollywobbler's Model 70 to incorrectly have had their Body type changed from Invalid vehicle to Tricycle by ill informed owners etc

the only thing you were supposed to change on the V5 of a vintage invalid vehicle, is the taxation class from Disabled to Tricycle*, you where not supposed to touch the body type, but a lot of people sadly got confused and did change the body type as well

(probably not helped by the whole miss information "omg aren't invalid carriages banned!" so imagine a lot of people panicked slightly when they saw "invalid vehicle")

 

*obviously today you can just change it directly to historic vehicle

(but even then I have found writing on the DVLA website that says if a vehicle weighs bellow 508Kg you dont have to change the taxation class, although if your not actually disabled, its probably best to still change the taxation class!)

 

[keef]

DVLA- As usual: clear as mud!

[mitsisigma01]

Probably written by the same bloke that is fking up the Covid stay safe stay alert unless you have to go on the tube then just cross your fingers

[LightBulbFun]

in other news Brian the chap who owns MPH759P has been renewing the rear brake shoes on his Model 70, always good to see some maintenance being done especially when its something as critical as the brakes!  

I also helped out a bit with his wheels as he was swapping the wheels from his Riley elf onto his Model 70 and I made sure to mention its critical that the offset of the front wheel is not changed from what the factory setup is (in this case the Dunlop LP 1161 wheels have a 24Mm offset IIRC) otherwise the front wheel will no longer be in the centerline of the car!

and he was pleased I mentioned that as he forgot about that, but it reminded him again from back when he owned a Reliant, he said he will leave the front wheel alone then!

so good thing I mentioned that! and I also told him whatever you do not snap a wheel stud LOL

 

I was also wondering @busmansholiday if you are aware of a supposed Invacar by parsons Cross? he says he knows of one there and 2 other people have also told him about it

but he sadly has not been able to go check it out for me, so im curious if you know about it at all?, im wondering if it even is an invalid vehicle or just a blue reliant robin or something! 

 

[busmansholiday]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I was also wondering @busmansholiday if you are aware of a supposed Invacar by parsons Cross? he says he knows of one there and 2 other people have also told him about it

Cannot say I do. I'd need to borrow a flak jacket and a few side arms though before I went wandering around there. 

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, busmansholiday said:

Cannot say I do. I'd need to borrow a flak jacket and a few side arms though before I went wandering around there. 

ah figured such sadly, as I figured if you did know about it, you would of told me about it already!

dodgy area eh? LOL

[Slowsilver]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I also helped out a bit with his wheels as he was swapping the wheels from his Riley elf onto his Model 70 and I made sure to mention its critical that the offset of the front wheel is not changed from what the factory setup is (in this case the Dunlop LP 1161 wheels have a 24Mm offset IIRC) otherwise the front wheel will no longer be in the centerline of the car!

Are all three wheels on an Invacar the same offset or is the front one different from the rears? If so it means I need to mark the front wheel before I take all three off for tyre fitting. Is the offset the same as an early Mini / Riley Elf / Wolseley Hornet? Since you have warned him about this I presume not.
 

[LightBulbFun]

11 minutes ago, Slowsilver said:

Are all three wheels on an Invacar the same offset or is the front one different from the rears? If so it means I need to mark the front wheel before I take all three off for tyre fitting. Is the offset the same as an early Mini / Riley Elf / Wolseley Hornet? Since you have warned him about this I presume not.

the Wheels on a Model 70 are the same all round (or are supposed to be!) 

on 10 inch cars like Dolly and REV they are Dunlop LP 1161 wheels also known by the part number? 21A2744

(if you google LP 1161 you wont find much but if you just google dunlop 1161 or 21A2744 then you will, it took me a bit to figure that out!)

I have/had no idea how his Elf was setup etc, so I figured id give the warning as a failsafe, the 10 inch wheels found on Model 70s are generally the same as found on 1970's Minis however 

it probably would not be a bad idea to double check all the 10 inch wheels floating around the FoD to be safe, but they should all be the same!

the markings should be stamped on the front face of the wheel like so

[busmansholiday]

If you get bored (and don't want to get shot) have a run around Parsons Cross on Goooogle street view (north of Sheffield Wednesday's ground and to the right of Halifax Rd).

[barrett]

I've just been doing that instead of working, no joy yet! I think something Toilet Blue would be easy to spot, but only if it's been there for ages. I am enjoying the 3D look into people's back gardens etc

[LightBulbFun]

8 minutes ago, barrett said:

I've just been doing that instead of working, no joy yet! I think something Toilet Blue would be easy to spot, but only if it's been there for ages. I am enjoying the 3D look into people's back gardens etc

you would think that, but it can be surprisingly difficult to spot Invacars from space! (or a camera van)

see for example right back at the start of this thread when I was actively looking for the "DNX" Model 70, ahh memories, still plan to properly go looking for that one once Im on the road with REV

"so what does this car you looking for look like then? it looks exactly like what im driving" should help things along LOL

[LightBulbFun]

small driving lessons what have you update

sent a text message to my instructor if he knew if anything was happening regarding lessons etc and basically, he does not have info on when lessons will restart until BSM tell him so sadly

and this is all BSM are saying atm... https://www.bsm.co.uk/coronavirus

so ill just have to continue waiting I guess, knowing my luck lessons will be allowed to resume 3 days before my test date LOL

(lessons aside the other worry is I will need a car for the driving test!)

[bobdisk]

20 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

small driving lessons what have you update

sent a text message to my instructor if he knew if anything was happening regarding lessons etc and basically, he does not have info on when lessons will restart until BSM tell him so sadly

and this is all BSM are saying atm... https://www.bsm.co.uk/coronavirus

so ill just have to continue waiting I guess, knowing my luck lessons will be allowed to resume 3 days before my test date LOL

(lessons aside the other worry is I will need a car for the driving test!)

This might sound like a daft suggestion, but why not buy a small car to use  for lessons, and use it for the test. After you pass (of course you will ! ) sell it. You could get a reasonable Polo, or Fiesta, or similar for £400 or so. Another big advantage is that you get to know the car before the test. A member of the family with a full licence can accompany you. This worked for me (a long time ago now) and some others I know of, especially the getting to know it bit.  Check here to find out about a suitable test car   https://www.gov.uk/driving-test/using-your-own-car

[LightBulbFun]

5 minutes ago, bobdisk said:

This might sound like a daft suggestion, but why not buy a small car to use  for lessons, and use it for the test. After you pass (of course you will ! ) sell it. You could get a reasonable Polo, or Fiesta, or similar for £400 or so. Another big advantage is that you get to know the car before the test. A member of the family with a full licence can accompany you. This worked for me (a long time ago now) and some others I know of, especially the getting to know it bit.  Check here to find out about a suitable test car   https://www.gov.uk/driving-test/using-your-own-car

sadly due to logistics and cost I don't think I can do that sadly

iv just about got enough funds scraped together to pay board and cover my Model 70 endeavour, if I throw another car plus its needed insurance and parking permit etc into the mix, ill probably run out of moneys sadly

but I appreciate the suggestion and ill obviously keep it in mind  

[LightBulbFun]

was it "fashionable" at some point to mount Invacar chassis plates to wooden blocks?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293601379916

because this is the 3rd one I have come across like this! if im interpreting the chassis number correctly it was the 689th Invacar for 1950, wonder where the rest of it is! 

 

 

heres the first one I came across (sadly not sure if I can share the picture of the 2nd one!)

 

 

but speaking of Early Invacars this neat picture of an Invacar Mk8 mingling among traffic showed up today also 

 

 

 

 

[barrett]

Ha, that's weird. I have looked at that photo a few times yesterday (it's in Brighton) but never noticed the Invacar!

[LightBulbFun]

37 minutes ago, barrett said:

Ha, that's weird. I have looked at that photo a few times yesterday (it's in Brighton) but never noticed the Invacar!

I know what you mean, I think the fact its being viewed from the rear and its got full weather protection on the go

means it does a surprisingly good job and obscuring itself almost looks like someone squashed a prewar car LOL

but once you take a closer look its pretty obvious what it is! amusingly someone on the facebook group where I found it called it a Harding, despite the girt big Invacar badge on the back! 

[LightBulbFun]

this was a pleasant surprise

https://www.facebook.com/groups/950689934973969/permalink/3026779650698310/

was nice to finally have some decent pictures of Simons collection! as sadly Simon is not very good at taking pictures

also a bit surprised to see them at all as alluded to above, I do have pictures of the collection from Simon but I was told not to share them!

so im surprised Graham was allowed to share his, unless he just never asked LOL

for preservation sake I have downloaded the photos and stuck em into the post as well  

along with a small description of whats what! (which I have also done in Grahams post) 

 

I hope you all enjoy etc  

 

first up an Invacar Mk12c, and HCK972N the youngest known surviving (Miller conversion) Tippen Delta  

 

then 2 Model 67''s, an AC Acedes Mk14 on the left and a AC acedes Mk15 on the right (and a Mk12 peaking into shot)

then VPF441M up the far end, then the only known surviving Model 64 Mk5, 2 Invacar Mk12D or Mk12E's and the AC Acedes Mk14 Model 67 from above  

 

Then an Invacar Mk8B (more on this one later!) and a Carter Model F  

another Mk12c  

 

a really quite early Mk12c note that its still the original Mk12 colour scheme of Dark blue and white, it was not actually known that the Mk12c was produced in this form, Stuart thought THK176E from the Mk12c brochure was a prototype, but clearly the earliest Mk12c's where made in the old colour scheme before quickly switching to the ministry blue colour

(for those wondering its about 800 cars behind @BlankFrank's Mk12c, I can tell this because thankfully it still has its chassis plate! however the Stanley Mk7A aside, its the only Trysull car to still have a chassis plate AFAIK sadly)

 

PPC363R, still clearly on its false plates sadly (and on 12 inch wheels, should be on 10 inch wheels)  

a harding consort  

some hand propelled thing, and BKV327D, a petrol Tippen Delta 6, hiding under the sheets  

a Nelco Solocar, some assembly required!

 

 

and finally a full picture of the Mk8B, this one is really is something special, Invacar produced very few Mk8Bs so its a bit of a miracle it survives! they differed from the normal Mk8A in that the 197cc Villers engine was replaced with a 242cc British anzani twin! but it was too non standard for the Ministry from what I understand so it never entered production

given a Normal Mk8 can achieve 50Mph I bet this one is fun on the Open road!, this one was reparted from Australia of all places! it always amused me that the Invacar with the large engine ended up In Australia, the home of the normal car fitted with big engines  (cc @MorrisItalSLX )

I do fortunately know this ones chassis number, and I do wonder if it was ever registered in the UK or if it was directly shipped down under when new, one to look out for when I go through the Essex archives!

also nice to have a decent picture of it! I did not have one until now, its interesting to note how its the same maroon colour as 1267H, I wonder if private Mk8s where Brown while Ministry ones where black? something to talk to Stuart about! (as I know 1267H is a private example)

[busmansholiday]

I've two Excelsior bikes (both in bits I'll add) one with a Villiers 197 and the others got a British Anzarni twin. Small world!

[MorrisItalSLX]

27 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

And finally a full picture of the Mk8B, this one is really is something special, Invacar produced very few Mk8Bs so its a bit of a miracle it survives! they differed from the normal Mk8A in that the 197cc Villers engine was replaced with a 242cc British anzani twin! but it was too non standard for the Ministry from what I understand so it never entered production

given a Normal Mk8 can achieve 50Mph I bet this one is fun on the Open road!, this one was reparted from Australia of all places! it always amused me that the Invacar with the large engine ended up In Australia, the home of the normal car fitted with big engines  (cc @MorrisItalSLX )

I do fortunately know this ones chassis number, and I do wonder if it was ever registered in the UK or if it was directly shipped down under when new, one to look out for when I go through the Essex archives!

also nice to have a decent picture of it! I did not have one until now, its interesting to note how its the same maroon colour as 1267H, I wonder if private Mk8s where Brown while Ministry ones where black? something to talk to Stuart about! (as I know 1267H is a private example)

Now that is interesting, I think that it would have had a UK reg to start with as I doubt it would have been sold new in Australia, more likely bought in the UK and then shipped here when the owner immigrated or possibly bought and shipped but a collector.

The NRMA Member sticker, bottom left of front screen, tell us it came from New South Wales, most likely from Sydney as I can’t imagine it being used outside of a urban environment.

I’m an NRMA member myself, as evidenced on my cars (I have some NOS stickers as well).

[LightBulbFun]

5 minutes ago, MorrisItalSLX said:

Now that is interesting, I think that it would have had a UK reg to start with as I doubt it would have been sold new in Australia, more likely bought in the UK and then shipped here when the owner immigrated or possibly bought and shipped but a collector.

The NRMA Member sticker, bottom left of front screen, tell us it came from New South Wales, most likely from Sydney as I can’t imagine it being used outside of a urban environment.

I’m an NRMA member myself, as evidenced on my cars (I have some NOS stickers as well).

ah thats very neat! its cool to see it still retains little bits of its time spent down under  

[egg]

MK12 Invacars just cannot hang on to their doors, can they? It would be great if some of those could just get a deep clean if nothing else.

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, egg said:

MK12 Invacars just cannot hang on to their doors, can they? It would be great if some of those could just get a deep clean if nothing else.

no they cannot sadly!

it makes you wonder tho where they all ended up! does someone randomly have a pile of Mk12 doors in their garage? LOL

(although on a more serious note being steel etc I imagine they all just rusted away once they fell off sadly)

indeed it would be nice to see em get some TLC, but simon works a full time university job and has 0 spare time as it is so I dont see much being done soon sadly! although saying that I do know he is slowly picking away at things, like stripping the Nelco solocar and putting it back together with a fresh lick of paint (and  some electrical TLC IIRC)

I do know he did something with the Early Mk12c at one point which is why its missing its dummy door too as IIRC he removed it from the car

 

Stuart has said running the ICR was pretty much the same as having a full time job and I dont think Simon realised just how serious Stuart was being when he said that!

 

 

one of the sadder points for me is I dont think Simon plans to ever seriously use any of the vehicles, he just has them as collection pieces, and it makes me sad that they dont and wont really get used but im happy they are at least in some form of preservation!

 

[Mrs6C]

I came across this old advert on Car & Classic:
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C864718/

Any idea who this was or what happened to the collection

[LightBulbFun]

25 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

I came across this old advert on Car & Classic:
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C864718/

Any idea who this was or what happened to the collection

that will be Alan hitchcock's garden of Mk12s and 2 Model 67's  

the 2 Model 67's went to Simon which you see above 

I think he still has a few Mk12s at least 4 with chassis numbers, all of which I have managed to figure out the registration numbers of  those being DOO867G, EWC163H, MPU532J, and NPU156J (there is also a 5th car KPU147J but that one was already IDed thanks to some paperwork found in the car)

I think Alan might be prepping a Mk12 for sale based on recent FB posts from him (im not sure if anything ever sold from those C&C listings)

the Model 70 he talks about is KPL139P which was @Zelandeth's first Model 70 whos running gear now powers TPA  

[Out Run]

LBF, mind how you go, calling out people’s cars as ringers etc.

I’m sure it won’t be appreciated, if you draw any attention to them...

[LightBulbFun]

32 minutes ago, Out Run said:

LBF, mind how you go, calling out people’s cars as ringers etc.

I’m sure it won’t be appreciated, if you draw any attention to them...

I make mention of it because of how it badly misleads people, and because well its not the right ID for the vehicle and can cause all sorts of grief

a number of invalid vehicles where sadly rung back when they where legitimately stolen government property and rung to try and hide their IDs to stop the goverment taking them back, but these days none of that matters anymore

(as since closure of the IVS in 2004 all surviving government owned invalid vehicles became public domain basically)

so I try my best to get rung Invalid vehicles back on their original registrations  

 

a really good example of this is how I helped the owner of MPH759P (Q231PVL) get his Model 70 back on its original registration mark which allowed him to keep it rather then be forced to sell it because it was on a Q plate

https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-invacar-model-70-acquired-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-model-70-survivors-list-on-page-24-pre-model-70-ac-and-invacar-survivors-lists-added-on-page-135/page/26/?tab=comments#comment-1760809

 

 

a good example of how it miss leads people is how everyone thinks ALB761A is from 1963! because of the 1963 registration plate she wears, despite the fact she is a Model 67 Mk15 from 1969-1971!

https://flic.kr/p/2hJVypL

 

the situation with PPC363R is especially frustrating, because its owned by Simon who is the head of the ICR and has shown it on TV! someone may well look up "OYP595" and think its an AC Petite which is entirely false and missleading 

the ICR the public authority figure on invalid carriages really should be doing better than this!

the extra frustrating thing is, I have since informed Simon that OYP595 is not its correct registration mark and I have told him what its real mark is, but alas he has not done anything about it

On 2/23/2019 at 12:15 PM, LightBulbFun said:

PPC363R, AC, Date of first registration 13 December 1976, Current status  with Simon Mckeown of the ICR, untaxed since 28th April 2003, Date of last V5C (logbook) issued, 9 December 2002, notable for being ringed with the ID of an AC Petite "OYP595"

 

[plasticvandan]

Sat in your bedroom at your computer it is very easy to forget how busy and hectic and stressful life can be for people,an incorrect reg number on an old technically stolen invalid carriage that won't see the road again is probably very low on people's priority list. Apart from DVLA having been closed for all non standard operations like plate applications over the last few months.