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Invacar Model 70 Acquired! & general ramble thread, index on page 1, Model 70 survivors list on page 24, pre Model 70 AC and Invacar survivors lists added on page 134 :)


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13 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

There's also VWP

4.7mm Bullets, Sockets & Snap Connectors (vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk)

and Autosparks although their website appears to be on the fritz(or might be my browser).

looks like the security certificate for the autosparks website has been revoked so thats why its refusing to connect

 

but yeah good to know who does what :) 

I had a look around the VWP website and they do the special lucas fuses, including the 25A one and list its continuous current rating, which is 12.5A

https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk/c-52-fuse-boxes-fuses/c-121-fuses-and-circuit-breakers/p-675-glass-cartridge-fuse-30mm

pleased about that as I had not been able to find what it was for the 25A fuse and was wondering what it was

although I see theres a handy chart on Wikipedia as well :) 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuse_(automotive)#Lucas_type

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Well it's been a lovely day in sunny old Morecambe (for once!) So got the electric polisher out and gave the old thing a once over!  Not bad considering its been off th road since 1991!    Last pic, as found!  Thank you @LightBulbFunfor finding her ID  VJN 593S is on the way back...!

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27 minutes ago, OldBlokeInACaravan said:

Well it's been a lovely day in sunny old Morecambe (for once!) So got the electric polisher out and gave the old thing a once over!  Not bad considering its been off th road since 1991!    Last pic, as found!  Thank you @LightBulbFunfor finding her ID  VJN 593S is on the way back...!

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Looking very nice! :) (tis VJN953S BTW :)

27 minutes ago, OldBlokeInACaravan said:

Not bad considering its been off th road since 1991!   

I do wonder about that as she has some late service fitments, like the Rubbolite/Britax rear lights and Spax gas shocks

and the NOS Model 70 Spax shocks  I have seen have a letter in them that is dated to 1995

so I do wonder if she finished her service life wearing the number plates of some other Model 70

it was not all that uncommon in the later days of Model 70's for an approved repairer to take someones Model 70 that needed servicing, and just slap its number plates on another Model 70 they just withdrew and send the withdrawn one back out the door under the ID of the Model 70 that needed servicing rather then actually service said Model 70!

but im still researching exactly when the Rubbolite/Britax rear lights where introduced (For Model 70's) and when exactly the Spax shocks where introduced, it may be the letter dated to 1995, is simply a revision of a letter dating back to some other date

 

actually, just had a bit of a brainwave, Can you take the lightbulbs out of the rear lights and post pictures of their markings? (they will be quite small and I will need them to be in good focus so you might want to find a magnifying glass or such to help you there :) they will have date codes that I can decipher and that should tell me if she finished her service life under the ID of another Model 70 or not!

since if I see a Lightbulb dated to 1995 or something such then that will tell me she was in use under another Model 70's ID even after she was officially withdrawn in 1990

 

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1 minute ago, LightBulbFun said:

Looking very nice! :) (tis VJN953S BTW :)

I do wonder about that as she has some late service fitments, like the Rubbolite/Britax rear lights and Spax gas shocks

and the NOS Model 70 Spax shocks  I have seen have a letter in them that is dated to 1995

so I do wonder if she finished her service life wearing the number plates of some other Model 70

it was not all that uncommon in the later days of Model 70's for an approved repairer to take someones Model 70 that needed servicing, and just slap its number plates on another Model 70 they just withdrew and send that back out the door under the ID of the other Model 70 rather then actually service said other Model 70!

but im still researching exactly when the Rubbolite/Britax rear lights where introduced (For Model 70's) and when exactly the Spax shocks where introduced, it may be the letter dated to 1995, is simply a revision of a letter dating back to some other date

 

actually, Can you take the rear lightbulbs out of the rear lights and post pictures of their markings? (they will be quite small and I will need them to be in good focus so you might want to find a magnifying glass or such to help you there :) they will have date codes that I can decipher and that should tell me if she finished her service life under the ID of another Model 70 or not!

(since if I see a Lightbulb dated to 1995 or something such then that will tell me she was in use under another Model 70's ID even after she was officially withdrawn in 1990)

 

Oooopps ! Long day with the reg no! Lol

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5 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

Looking very nice! :) (tis VJN953S BTW :)

I do wonder about that as she has some late service fitments, like the Rubbolite/Britax rear lights and Spax gas shocks

and the NOS Model 70 Spax shocks  I have seen have a letter in them that is dated to 1995

so I do wonder if she finished her service life wearing the number plates of some other Model 70

it was not all that uncommon in the later days of Model 70's for an approved repairer to take someones Model 70 that needed servicing, and just slap its number plates on another Model 70 they just withdrew and send that back out the door under the ID of the other Model 70 rather then actually service said other Model 70!

but im still researching exactly when the Rubbolite/Britax rear lights where introduced (For Model 70's) and when exactly the Spax shocks where introduced, it may be the letter dated to 1995, is simply a revision of a letter dating back to some other date

 

actually, Can you take the rear lightbulbs out of the rear lights and post pictures of their markings? (they will be quite small and I will need them to be in good focus so you might want to find a magnifying glass or such to help you there :) they will have date codes that I can decipher and that should tell me if she finished her service life under the ID of another Model 70 or not!

(since if I see a Lightbulb dated to 1995 or something such then that will tell me she was in use under another Model 70's ID even after she was officially withdrawn in 1990)

 

Ooohhh! Will have a look tomorrow no problem, that does explain one thing (sort of) the nearside rear light lens was not fixed on when I got it! but there was a used (and a new boxed one) was inside.....

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40 minutes ago, OldBlokeInACaravan said:

@LightBulbFunhere's some pics of the bulbs.... I haven't got a magnifying glass unfortunately, I have cropped and lightened them up, but you may be able to crop them a bit more!  Hope they help? 

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Ohh Tungsram lamps interesting

I cant say for 100% certainty but I suspect 2D is the date code, for for April 1992, but I dont know for sure when it comes to Tungsram Automotive lamps I know their regular lamps of this period followed that date coding convention, but I dont know if their automotive lamps did or not

what does the stop/tail lamp say after the (E1) marking?

 

it might be worth holding them a little further away from the camera to get it in focus :) 

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Looks like Alan (Big Al) finally actually has put one of the Invacar Mk12's up for sale officially LOL

https://www.facebook.com/alan.hitchcock.71/posts/10223411787975540

and would you look at that it actually has a Door! *insert Invacar Mk12 door for sale complete with free Invacar Mk12 joke here* LOL

154368311_10223411780215346_6659359132478347201_o.thumb.jpg.f18f4431e524742e65914756b2580953.jpg

 

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153973639_10223411786855512_1896047636353733567_o.thumb.jpg.60d7aa1b948ae0ff12a8ac314ec52d1a.jpg

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one interesting thing to note that I did not know about this particular car is apparently it was last on the Road in 1979 (I knew some of its service dockets survived, so I guess that info was in there)

thats a good and interesting thing as it might just mean its in the offline DVLA archives like @egg's/ @BlankFrank's Mk12 was

tho I cant say for sure, as the Buff Logbook to V5 period was 1974-1983, so it may still have ended its service life and been "scrapped" while still on a buff logbook

41 minutes ago, dave j said:

Me too! Standard type of comments on The Facebook ads as you would expect. Looks odd on a K plate though

yeah it looks all sorts of weird/wrong on that modern plate LOL

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5 minutes ago, BlankFrank said:

Looks in x100 better condition than the xwc mk12 so that's good to see.  (xwc is basically just a fibreglass body with %10 of its chassis left, garden ornament material)

well it has a Door, but I sadly dont actually know what its chassis is like, im sure if you could get a door and replaced the lights like he did, XWC would look quite smart once more :) 

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46 minutes ago, BlankFrank said:

Looks in x100 better condition than the xwc mk12 so that's good to see.  (the xwc mk12 basically consists of a fibreglass body, engine and wheels with %10 of its chassis left due to rust, garden ornament material)

Is that the end of XWC as a project Frank? 

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6 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

It's private so cannot read it; what's he want for it?

heres a screenshot of the post (and then it again copied and pasted into a quote incase the screen shot is too small to read)

image.thumb.png.0496765ec8cdc2c906a570b842ddab67.png

Quote

The Invacar Mk12 Type E is now up together, and looking to move on to a new owner.


For sale

Invacar Mk12 Model E from August 1970, including the original Chassis Plate. Was registered as K*U 1*7J and comes with an Invalid Carriage Register dating letter for re-registration as a Historic Vehicle at DVLA. Last on the road with a Mr Brian Howe in 1979. A rare complete car, in reasonable condition to restore to roadworthy condition. 


The Invacar Mk12 was the last uniquely Bert Grieves designed Invalid Carriage. A common sight in clips of football matches into the ‘80’s at the side of the pitch. The Model E is the last version of that type, before the AC designed Type 70 become the only petrol option available, with it’s production shared between Invacar and AC. So you will note the 7 inch headlights, rather simplified front suspension, and the use of later indicator units over the earlier versions of Mk12. Despite being made in good numbers, the Mk12 is not common, some 45 examples being left to us. Fewer restored. 


The design was a progression from prior ideas. It features a large diameter steel central tube, off which are mounted various outriggers, some carrying the suspension. The flat steel floor is mounted on top of this robust construction. The four GRP body moldings are bolted to it, being the Front, Roof, Rear and O/S side panel. The only door, N/S, is a steel fabrication, and slides to the rear. The seat bottom slides across to the door for ease of access. Once in, the pilot has room between himself, and the door, for his wheelchair, should he have one. This example has standard controls, being hand only, via an offset mounted tiller to the right, and control console also to the right of the driver. 


The engine is a Villiers blower cooled 197cc reversing unit, with four gears, changed with a long throw gear-stick, and rod using a numbered gate plate. The engine sits on the tubular spine, in the midst of what is nearly a bolted space-frame of stressed tube steel carriers. It drives the N/S wheel via a drop gear chain to a Hardy Spicer type drive shaft, and has an hydraulic clutch (you can replace this with a cable. Heavier in use for the disabled). It is thus feasible to change the gearing to increase the speed of the car. Their design speed being about 45 mph as standard. Standard Girling drum brakes all round. 12 inch wheels (Fiat 500 tyres). So in all a pretty simple construction, and thus easy to restore. Not least as Villiers still exist, sell spares, and do engine rebuilds. 


This example managed to escape scrappage – the scrappage fee being paid on the surrender of the Chassis Plate. This is why it is rare to find an Invalid Carriage with its original Chassis Plate. Quite why the Worcester area agent took a few cars home with him, I could not say. Technically it was illegal, but time heals all wrongs. They laid in has garden for some 35 years, until it became time for the family to redevelop the plot. Which is when I became involved to move the cars away to safety. 


The GRP has a few minor repairs to do. The flat floor is poor in places, and the door sill structure is needing replacement. Nothing complex as its all folding sheet steel sections, and can be copied from original. There will be other minor welding needs. The door is pretty good for a Mk12. They are the weak spot, and it is probably the biggest task of the restoration. All steel. The runner is apparently the same as used for filing cabinets! 


Engine is nipped up, not surprisingly. See previous Villiers comments. There is a spare engine available, should the buyer require it as an additional purchase. The small car rolls happily, though, and is not very heavy. The lights, and fittings, are all good to go again – I have gone through them exchanging dead ones for good, out of my parts bins. Included is a rare, but fragile original yellow plastic rear view mirror! But I fitted a metal one, as I think most will prefer that in use. There is a box of other spares, too. I do not have the boot catch, however, though I found new hinges! Replica boot catches are available. 


More detailed pics on request. A very do-able project for somebody for sale at £1,500 ono. 


Access to a whole spare reversing engine, seized, for £150. 


Second spares car which has heavy body damage to the the rear. Once again a complete car being thought the third youngest chassis left, April 1971. Registration M*U 3*2J, dating letter available £750, or buy with the above car as two examples for £2,000 the pair.

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BTW for those wondering about the K Prefix plate its just from a (I think sadly dead) BX Big Al Owns, the real ID of this Mk12 is known :) (and I have personally verified it against my research too)

On 09/10/2020 at 22:00, LightBulbFun said:

while im on this subject Big al has one for sale in similar condition but with chassis plate if anyone is interested in a Mk12 that can be positively ID'ed etc

 

he recently posted this picture of it which looks all sorts of wrong LOL

image.thumb.png.5a5f74048f10d5060b4f32624d49fa43.png

Funny looking Citroen eh LOL it IS blue LOL

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On 10/10/2020 at 10:12, LightBulbFun said:

Yeah I think it was just stuck on for the LOLs as they say

its from a BX thats being scrapped sadly (I do know the actual registration of the above Mk12)

although there where K plate Mk12's they where all K suffix plates!

 

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15 hours ago, egg said:

Is that the end of XWC as a project Frank? 

 

14 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I hope not! would be a real shame to see it condemned

especially given all the effort put into saving it and especially given its one of the few Mk12's with its ID fully sorted out etc!

The end? Not entirely. I'd never plan on scrapping it incase that is a worry.

The chassis is so far gone that the only thing left is the backbone, front suspension and about %20 structural integrity in the back.

I will still tinker with it and plan on getting the engine running in the summer, i can't find the correct piston rings for a +015 sized piston that has the same width + height dimensions with the same locating pin design. If the rings weren't a problem i could assemble the engine and it would probably start with an ignition coil + condenser. I've bought the spark plug (plus a spare) and cleaned the fwd ignition points and carb (points not gapped though) so the piston rings are the main issue with the engine i'd say.

That said, if any shiter want to take it off my hands for the same price i paid (£50) then they're welcome. I'll post some pictures of the state of the chassis in the xwc topic next month with the same offer. Edit: Sale pending

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26 minutes ago, BlankFrank said:

 

The end? Not entirely. I'd never plan on scrapping it incase that is a worry.

The chassis is so far gone that the only thing left is the backbone, front suspension and about %20 structural integrity in the back.

I will still tinker with it and plan on getting the engine running in the summer, i can't find the correct piston rings for a +015 sized piston that has the same width + height dimensions with the same locating pin design. If the rings weren't a problem i could assemble the engine and it would probably start with an ignition coil + condenser. I've bought the spark plug (plus a spare) and sorted out the ignition points and carb (and a whole list of other engine stuff listed in the xwc topic last year) so the piston rings are the main issue with the engine.

That said, if any shiter want to take it off my hands for the same price i paid (£50) then they're welcome. I'll post some pictures of the state of the chassis in the xwc topic next month with the same offer.

thats good to know its not the end!

 its a shame about the chassis, but I hope in time someone can fabricate a new one or repair the existing one, wont be the first time its been done on an Invacar, I understand Sam had to more or less make a new Chassis for UOI8850!

as for the Piston rings have you tried contacting these chaps? https://villiersservices.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8_100_101&products_id=527

in the link above, they list a 0.015 oversize piston for sale and they say they come with rings, so surely they must have suitable rings in stock? :) 

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5 minutes ago, BlankFrank said:

That was my first go-to for the rings. The issue is that (i believe) the piston in xwcs non-seized engine has been replaced with one that i haven't identified so the rings are different. (possibly BSA?) Sometime later in the year i'll do a full post with pics in xwcs topic to show what i mean, etc.

Oh thats of a bit of a ball ache, from parts bin car to parts bin engine even! 

have you tried contacting Allen Millyard? perhaps he could weld the 2 Villers engines together and create the worlds first Villiers V-Twin (Invacar) :mrgreen:

on a more serious note, how does the original engine look? if you could get it unsized would it be serviceable? perhaps that might something to look at since Hopefully its constructed with more standard parts that you can actually still get! :) 

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There are plenty of firms who can make up new piston rings based on patterns, so if you can get the old ones off, regardless of what they're from, they can easily be replicated for a reasonable cost. Here's one as an example - https://www.enginepartsuk.net/hastings

 

Edit: Villiers pistons seem quite easy to find, so could you buy a replacement piston and the correct rings and rebuild back to standard?

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Don't make it harder than it needs to be, just stop faffing around and fit a new piston if it's available.  It will come with rings which fit.  Then it all might work properly.  Unless you prefer faffing around, obvs.  Some people do. 

Edit - I'm sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but some of you guys just make rods for your own backs all the time.

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That mk12 belonged to a friend of my grandad,who worked with him at the same Worcester repairers.He had about 5 mk12s which he had in his garden lined up along a hedge,which he used as sheds.(he was an eccentric) his property was also filled with "acquired" invalid carriage parts through many years working for the repairers.As it had sat for 40 years on soil I can't imagine the chassis is great,but the body is far better than I thought it would be.

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I think i'll just have to save up for the full piston with rings if i do keep it. I was hoping to get just rings for the old piston but Mr Pastry is correct it'd just be a faff about. I'm not making any promises due to current financial constraints/tightness. Good to have a plan re: xcw's engine. I'll shutup now 'cos xwc might be offtopic. 😂

 

Edit: Sale pending

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2 minutes ago, BlankFrank said:

I think i'll just have to save up for the full piston with rings, etc. I was hoping to get just rings for the old piston but those who said i'd be faffing are correct. I'm not making any promises due to current financial constraints/tightness. I'll shutup now 'cos xwc might be offtopic. 😂

I dont think this thread really has a set topic per say, outside "this is generally where Invacars happen" 

so do post on :) (im certainly not one to complain about things going off topic anyhow)

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