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LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...


LightBulbFun

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very interesting stuff :) 

thanks for the info :) 

next thing im trying to figure out is how to tell for a given area, say essex, what reg serise would of been issued after one ended, in that, as in once a general reg block hit 999 how do you tell what would of come after that starting from 1? the reason I ask is I have a couple more Invacar blocks which get cut short by 999 so I suspect they continue on the next reg series that was issued right after

do you just go up alphabetically like you do for the prefixes but obviously making sure the reg you get is still one for your region)

thats what it looks like given TTW-R and TVW-R and with the LNO-P block which is from 914-999 and then right after LNO would be LOO and guess what LOO1P is an Invacar :) (rather amusingly LOL)

 

17 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

Hopes this helps, and reflective plates were mandatory from 1st January 1973 also.

 

unless your London Transport :mrgreen:

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3 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

very interesting stuff :) 

thanks for the info :) 

next thing im trying to figure out is how to tell for a given area, say essex, what reg serise would of been issued after one ended, in that, as in once a general reg block hit 999 how do you tell what would of come after that starting from 1? the reason I ask is I have a couple more Invacar blocks which get cut short by 999 so I suspect they continue on the next reg series that was issued right after

do you just go up alphabetically like you do for the prefixes but obviously making sure the reg you get is still one for your region)

thats what it looks like given TTW-R and TVW-R and with the LNO-P block which is from 914-999 and then right after LNO would be LOO and guess what LOO1P is an Invacar :) (rather amusingly LOL)

 

 

unless your London Transport

You are correct with your assumptions on reg series, that's how it works (and still does).

Wrong about London Transport as there was an exemption for ANY buses used on local services to have black plates.

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9 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

And the bit I forgot was the centralised system was delayed, and delayed again until 1st October 1974. Essex went from SVX---M to TEV ---N in September 1974 then the new computer started with "G" prefix everywhere, alledgedly.

interesting, indeed around then the invacar and AC blocks reset to Gxx (see the cluster fuck that is GPU-N and GEV-N a few pages earlier LOL)

 

the SVX-M to TEV-N explains the 50 car gap between ROO-M and TEV-N  :)

following ROO should be an Sxx block we dont have but it looks they would have been cut short by the change by the change from M to N suffix, hence only 50 car block

now to find said Sxx-M block :) 

 (ROO-M is also a bit of a weird block, I THINK its from ROO901M to ROO998M which leaves you a few cars short of 100... ROO905M is the earliest to show up on the DVLA until ROO900M thats not an invacar)

6 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

Wrong about London Transport as there was an exemption for ANY buses used on local services to have black plates.

interesting :) why where they exempt and how long did they exemption last?

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16 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

In terms of reg series I have to following for Essex prior to Oct 1974,

EV, HK, NO, OO, PU, TW, VW, VX, WC.

Afterwards the same plus HJ, JN (Southend) and AR (Herts).

They should logically go AR, EV, HJ, HK, JN then NO etc.

Ohh Thanks thats a handy reference to have :) (I use wikipedia's chart, but its in alphabetical order rather then reagion order so finding all the Essex and Surry ones can be fun)

 

image.thumb.png.bdcca0e33b59681cdd78400beb7095cc.png

sad woo, it a post 2001 survivor, but sadly returns an error on my Reg to Chassis site, which either means the Chassis number is shorter than 5 digits which I have not seen before for on an Invacar Model 70, or its just one of the few post 2001's that return no VIN number on my tools for whatever reason

(I have come across a hand full like that before, when the blueprint and other sites worked)

anyways now to figure out where the SPU-M block starts and ends :)

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I THINK the block ran from SPU130M to SPU179M

sadly there are large gaps where nothing shows up on the DVLA

but SPU128M is a fiat and SPU202M is a citroen (SPU141M is the first to show up as Invacar and SPU179M is the last)

and given the block of missing cars is/was 50 it makes sense to me that it ran from SPU130M to SPU179M

sadly only SPU145M survived until 2004 and I cant pull its chassis number, so while im pretty certain which chassis numbers the block covers i cant confirm it for sure

it will have to be one for my HPI guy, once after I get some higher priority reg numbers run by him

all in all still very pleased about that, managed to fill a hole and find a reg block via just theory etc without any pictures etc :)

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I just finished going through the RVX-K block sadly none survived into chassis number look up range, but looking at the dates of first registration I think its the block that followed on from REV-K, so I think the next block that followed will be an Sxx-K block, (tho I will check RWC-K tomorrow to be safe) and once I find that block, that will be the gap of 200 between REV-K and SPU-K plugged :)

and ill in time ask my HPI guy run RVX302K and RVX400K which are the first and last to still show up on the DVLA checker, for me for chassis numbers so i can confirm the block fits in with everything else 

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8 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

filling the gaps like yeah! :) also more DVLA madness LOL (this is not one I singled out, its the first one I landed on while searching the RVX-K reg series for an Invacar block :) )

 

screencapture-vehicleenquiry-service-gov-uk-ViewVehicle-2019-08-25-00_28_01.thumb.png.d302dc23864969dfc2f94a2ed9922286.png

 

in this case there is well was :) a gap of 200 cars between REV-K and SPU-K

Is this the earliest recorded one to be fitted with a diesel engine then, or was the YTS being let loose that day ?.

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1 hour ago, busmansholiday said:

Is this the earliest recorded one to be fitted with a diesel engine then, or was the YTS being let loose that day ?.

haha I think its the YTS or the OCR to blame here :) 

MPH801P is another one that comes back as Diesel as well

so does VAV1L (MPD553P) , but that one actually does have a 500cc 3 cylinder kubota diesel engine coupled to the original centrifugal clutch, AC Gearbox and CVT setup, apparently it would do 80 :)

although to be fair I think a Normal Model 70 can do 80 we just haven't found someone with the balls/enough screws lose to try :mrgreen:

I have not come across one down as Steam powered but its only a matter of time at this rate LOL (which would be highly ironic as being air cooled the only way your getting steam out of a Model 70 is if your windscreen washer fluid boils over! that or you wade through a deep puddle and water+hot air cooled engine= cabin sauna)

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close but no cigar

image.thumb.png.92bc0a558133d68b3f6562aeb3ba058c.png

none made it until Chassis number look up range sadly (but again looking at the dates of first registration, it indeed looks like it went REV-K RVX-K SHK-K and SPU-K)

 

the fun holes to fill will be the early/late ones

for example REV-K is the earliest known Invacar Model 70 block but we can tell there are 80 Model 70's before the REV-K block

including Invacar Model 70 number 1

the question is, is it 1 block of 80 or is it several smaller blocks?

then on the AC side theres 100 cars before the GPG-K block, again incorporating AC Model 70 number 1 (if we assume there where no chassis blocks before Zxxx)

the fun thing on that, is if the Model 70 really entered service in June 1971, then the really early ones will be J Reg, and do any even show up on the DVLA still if they existed?

and on the late side of things

theres a bit of a gap between the Last of the English Model 70's and the NI Model 70's

so it raises the question of, is there another block in there, or all the ones after the last of the british cars, all Northern ireland cars?

fun times!

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Woo! I found the block that came before REV-K!

image.thumb.png.211a0975386654edc643e917e3245ae5.png

 

the block is either PPU521K to PPU600K, or PPU501K to PPU600K

the reason I mention both, is because REV-K starts from the 81st Invacar Model 70

so the block cant be 100 cars long, however PPU500K is a volvo, and from PPU501K to PPU521K there is nothing

maybe Invacar reserved a block of 100 regs but only used 80, or maybe the start of the PPU-K block is the end of Mk12 Production?

going to go through the PPU-K block now and hope I can pull a chassis number as this block is really intriguing :) (as it might be the start of Invacar Model 70 production)

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none made it into 2001+ sadly, but a higher then normal amount for a block of this age made it into the 1990s tho :)

ill fire off PPU522K off to my HPI guy tomorrow  and hopefully he can pull its chassis number

if my calculations are correct thats the second Invacar Model 70 off the production line!

(sadly PPU521K does not turn anything up sadly, potentially thats the first Invacar Model 70 off the production line :) 

I sadly dont know exactly how Invacar did their Model 70 Prototypes if they built any at all or if they just went straight into production

(AC did all the work etc including prototype development, however I do wonder if Invacar built any of their own prototypes to make sure there were no issues for themselves etc?)

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Reserving blocks of numbers, then not using them is standard practice.

"What reg do you want on your new car? 

"What you got?"

"This range".

"Oh, that's my initials, I'll have that"

"No problems, rest will get returned eventually if not used" replied the dealer.

Yes, been there, got the T shirt etc....

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4 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

Reserving blocks of numbers, then not using them is standard practice.

"What reg do you want on your new car? 

"What you got?"

"This range".

"Oh, that's my initials, I'll have that"

"No problems, rest will get returned eventually if not used" replied the dealer.

Yes, been there, got the T shirt etc....

ah cool :)  @Six-cylinder mentioned in passing that after I think it was either 1 or 2 months, the numbers would be returned to the DVLA (or whatever they were called back then

and I know Zel mentioned how he was given the choice to pick out the reg from what the dealer had, for his Pug 107 when he bought that new

 

seeing how it looks like Invacar started Model 70 production a good few months after AC did

I wonder if there are any Mk12's on K plates? that would be some fun "late registration madness" :)

(or maybe there was a gap in invacar production while they got the Model 70 lines up and going, I would not be surprised if that was the case given the pretty much Shed that Invacars where produced in, as I dont think they would have space to simultaneously be producing Mk12's and setting up Model 70 production)

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8 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

ah cool :)  @Six-cylinder mentioned in passing that after I think it was either 1 or 2 months, the numbers would be returned to the DVLA (or whatever they were called back then

and I know Zel mentioned how he was given the choice to pick out the reg from what the dealer had, for his Pug 107 when he bought that new

Allowing the customer to pick there own number from the batch that were allocated was usual to us. This meant the numbers were not used in sequence. When I sold Volvos from Aylesbury in the late 80s we ordered blocks of 30.

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image.thumb.png.3e3f610e217ab33027b709e86567adaf.png

 

I have No idea what this is, but its really unexpected but also very exciting

because BPE35H is a Prototype Model 70...

(I wasn't even searching out that block for other AC's but I was just throwing Random numbers briefly to check how frequently I got a hit in general for a H suffix reg, as I was checking some J reg series trying to find the block before GPG-K and I was getting nothing, not even regular cars so I wanted to see just how common did you get a hit, and I just plucked BPE-H because it was the first H suffix to come to mind because of the Prototype Model 70 conneciton)

and then after finding the above I went up reg by reg and found

image.thumb.png.d8d56954a6f9456e31745bba7a3c602f.png

Really frustrating that I dont have a fully functioning reg to VIN tool right now

(its VIN is less then 5 digits long so I cant pull it with my tool)

currently asking a friend to see if he can setup a https://dvlasearch.co.uk/ account for me so I can get it run (as its the one free(ish if you can get it to give you the 100 free credits) tool left that will give out chassis numbers, even if there only a few digits long)

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I suspect they could be villiers machines with BPE35H just registered alongside them

but still any villiers machine that shows up on the DVLA at all is worthy of excitement let alone one that survived until 2003!

so i'm eager on several levels to see what the VIN comes back on that one

(is it a Villers machine, if so Model 57 or Model 67? or is it a Prototype Model 70?)

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Stuart dropped in briefly, and complimented me on my findings :) 

he was only able to stay online briefly but said he will be back around 11ish so Im very much looking forward to that

he said on the Invacar front that I am getting close to late Invacar Mk12 range and they where K Reg Invacar Mk12's, I wonder if he has a picture of one, cuz id like to see that just for the amusement of it :)

but I think the fact that it strongly looks like a block of 80 cars makes me think its the start of Invacar Model 70 production

on the AC side of things, he said he suspects like I do that the BPE-H block may be a villiers block, with BPE35H one of the Prototype Model 70s just being registered alongside that batch, 

but if the VIN number for BPE29H is less then 5 digits then it screams early Model 70 (most villiers AC machines have 5 digit or longer VIN numbers, its only AC Model 70's that have Chassis numbers that are mostly 4 digits or smaller)

(of course it could be just one of the few 2001+ cars that websites still dont like, hence why Im trying to get someone to run it via the dvlasearch website, or such to check that, as I know that website, can pull a VIN number regardless of length, but sadly does have the 2001+ bug still)

its worth noting that BPE41H is a Morris, so whatever the BPE-H block is, its a short one

 

all in all, very exciting stuff for me :) (which makes me far happier then it probably should LOL)

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had a good conversation with Stuart last night

turns out I already had a picture of BPE35H, he was describing the picture he had and I thought that sounds awfully familiar, so I posted the picture I had and he was like "yep thats it! but slightly edited from the stock picture"

I had suspected for a long time that said picture I have may of been a Prototype Model 70 due to some small oddities I noticed in and its neat to have it confirmed :)

the newest Invacar Mk12 to still show up on the DVLA is PEV463K, PEV442K is actually a survivor but sadly does not show up on the DVLA (cc @egg :) )

it would be fun to park PEV442K next to TWC725K, for some fun late registration madness :) 

its interesting to note since AC was already churning out Model 70's at that point

that the Model 70 and Invacar Mk12 where in production at the same time for a couple months until Invacar started Model 70 production

sadly stuart on his end was not able to get the dvla search website going either, so no Chassis numbers for BPE29H yet

and sadly my HPI guy is holiday for the next week,

these newly discovered reg numbers are being such a tease LOL

but all in all pretty fun stuff :) hopefully ill be able to get the chassis numbers of BPE29H and PPU522K at some point!

On 2/19/2019 at 12:03 PM, Louise2cv said:

I had a dream.

 

I was at the Llandudno junction place. Looking at some crap old car. Then I saw a brief glimpse of an invacar on a forklift.

 

Went to take a sneaky pic, got caught by a guy sweeping. Thought I was in trouble but actually he went and got the boss who was open to chatting. The four were kept as spares cars for a fifth and not for sale. She opened the boot* and got champagne out. Hth

 

 

Thanks for polluting my brain!!!

 

well this is about to get creepy LOL

although it was thought the place was cleaned out of invacars by Stuart and Co years ago,

I was tipped off by someone else who went by a couple weeks that they spotted a single lone invacar there...

still waiting to get more details from him but he said there used to be like 10 and now theres 1 so it sounds like he is talking about the Llandudno place

 

"There is at least 1, but there was at least 10, in outside storage in a place in Llandudno, along with a fair few other retros and classics. No idea whose they are though."

 

"Fairly sure it is, been a few weeks but it's a storage building off a roundabout in Llandudno Junction, always locked up and lately seems to be the storage for the audi and bmw dealer over the road. Great news if loads got saved there were a fair few there."

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14 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

that the Model 70 and Invacar Mk12 where in production at the same time for a couple months until Invacar started Model 70 production

I guess this makes sense - in that Invacar probably had a contracted number of cars to fulfil, so continued with the MK12 even when the much improved model 70 was available. Maybe a few users were a bit miffed back in the day when they were hoping for a M70, but instead got a last of the line villiers machine...

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27 minutes ago, egg said:

I guess this makes sense - in that Invacar probably had a contracted number of cars to fulfil, so continued with the MK12 even when the much improved model 70 was available. Maybe a few users were a bit miffed back in the day when they were hoping for a M70, but instead got a last of the line villiers machine...

yeah, im not 100% sure how big the PEV-K block is, PEV400K and PEV501K are Non invacars' so it sounds like the block is PEV401K to PEV500K, however Invacar may of reserved those numbers not used em all (doing some quick DVLA bashing PEV422K is the first that pops up funnily enough, but its hard to say if PEV401-421K where Mk12's that just dont show up or if those numbers where just never used/issued)

and from what stuart said, it sounded like the DHSS was not quite sure when they wanted to officially commence with production of the Model 70 etc

so they kept ordering villiers machines in an ad hoc fashion, until the they finally said "alright start making Model 70's now!"

and it was pretty much like Friday they were making Mk12's and on Monday they were making Model 70's

although I do have a few questions about that!

(you cant setup a Production line in a weekend AFAIK!, hence why I do wonder if while bringing up the Model 70 production line, if Invacar made a few Model 70's here and there to make sure things where working as they should)

 

currently trying to figure out what would of come before GPG-K

was there a really early K reg block before it or was it J reg

it will be either Fxx-J Gxx-J or Fxx-K or Gxx-K

I know that much

(given how TPA-M is the first M suffix AC block and it too starts around the 20th of aug like the GPG-K block does im inclined to think that whatever came before GPG-K was a J suffix block but im not 100% sure)

 

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