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Invacar Model 70 Acquired! and general ramble thread, index on page 1, Phase 2: finding a suitable driving school/instructor getting lessons and a licence!

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Worth bearing in mind that we're currently in the school & university summer holidays, so there's going to be both additional demand and less instructors available.

You may find you have better luck getting a reasonable waiting period in a couple of weeks once the schools are back in.

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6 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Worth bearing in mind that we're currently in the school & university summer holidays, so there's going to be both additional demand and less instructors available.

You may find you have better luck getting a reasonable waiting period in a couple of weeks once the schools are back in.

thats a good point, ill keep an eye out incase something good does pop up, but I think ill probably do as you say and wait a couple weeks and see if the second driving school I called today has any free slots then, 

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@Datsuncog be like @egg :) https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1146777

(for a Mk12 its in fucking good shape!  ONO454D is its reg if its hard to make out)

11948277.thumb.jpg.c185f4f46a150367c867f9dca78e577d.jpg

 

11948279.thumb.jpg.4aee65dd67bc25dfbaa234ecf2b04869.jpg11948281.thumb.jpg.4f196c5bcf076ae61122db66693059b9.jpg11948283.thumb.jpg.2a61a9d7082ae34e08c7cc80b925fe3a.jpg

 

I do hope someone here buys it, id like to see it go to a good home 

price wise for £1250 id say its OK it could be be much worse, its in very good shape for a Mk12, (i know of Mk12s in much worse shape then this for about the same price)

but its a different beast from the Model 70 much more crude and not as usable in day to day life, so keep that in mind, i got posted the link to it on my thread on the retro rides forum, currently asking if the person who sent the link is the person selling it, as id like a vin plate picture :) 

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6 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

@Datsuncog be like @egg :) https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1146777

(for a Mk12 its in fucking good shape!  ONO454D is its reg if its hard to make out)

11948277.thumb.jpg.c185f4f46a150367c867f9dca78e577d.jpg

 

11948279.thumb.jpg.4aee65dd67bc25dfbaa234ecf2b04869.jpg11948281.thumb.jpg.4f196c5bcf076ae61122db66693059b9.jpg11948283.thumb.jpg.2a61a9d7082ae34e08c7cc80b925fe3a.jpg

 

I do hope someone here buys it, id like to see it go to a good home 

price wise for £1250 id say its OK it could be be much worse, its in very good shape for a Mk12, (i know of Mk12s in much worse shape then this for about the same price)

but its a different beast from the Model 70 much more crude and not as usable in day to day life, so keep that in mind, i got posted the link to it on my thread on the retro rides forum, currently asking if the person who sent the link is the person selling it, as id like a vin plate picture :)

 

As it's D reg, it's a 1966, rather than 62 as stated.

How much is getting it back from Ireland going to cost?

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5 hours ago, busmansholiday said:

 

As it's D reg, it's a 1966, rather than 62 as stated.

How much is getting it back from Ireland going to cost?

yeah I did not notice the reg plate at first, I was happily surprised when I noticed it

I sort of posted the link in a blind flail then edited the post to be better formatted later on in the night

as I was actually talking to Stuart about invacar stuff when I came across it for sale :) 

Stuart Thinks it may be this one http://rumcars.org/forum/index.php?topic=3800.0

sadly that forum shat all its pictures

however heres a pictures stuart sent me, do you think its the same car? I think its the same car, I mean how many 2 Tone Mk12's are there in the ROI LOL, and the "patina" looks the same between this photo and the one for sale

69031469_224384115157727_8982621699526623232_n.jpg.f46f7bd2c7725dcd68066af3f3b80538.jpg

the most interesting bit for me is "There are several aspects of its possible history which might well be interesting. As it surfaced in the Republic, there is every chance it is one of five second-hand cars sent out via a link up between Invacar Ltd & the Southend-on-Sea Rotary Club in the late 1960s to assist disabled persons in the Republic, which of course did not have the UK Invalid Vehicle Service"

which may go some way to explaining this :) https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-invacar-model-70-acquired-and-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-phase-2-finding-a-suitable-driving-schoolinstructor-getting-lessons-and-a-licence/page/32/?tab=comments#comment-1764303

(how did car registrations work in the ROI back then? being its own country im guessing you would have to re-register a car imported there just like you have to re-registre a car from the US here in the UK if you import one, however the above Mk12 is on british plates, unless they stuck the ROI plates over the british ones!)

 

5 hours ago, egg said:

Should be easier to get the v5 for that! Cool.

well finding out the reg was much easier! getting the V5 who knows, sadly does not show up on the DVLA checker

but at least we have the Essex records and it will be in there :) 

 

4 hours ago, Dirk Diggler said:

Mallow is a fair trip; would be a €250-300 recovery to Rosslare ferry port

seller says he may be able to help with transport 

maybe you could use it as a negotiating point and see if he will sell for a round £1000 :) 

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland

we had a great system from 1987 - 2013, now diluted. Funnily enough an original Irish car on a 60s or 70s plate would be worth much more than something imported; strictly speaking, plates are non transferable.

Possibly because so many cars were assembled here from ckd pre 1973; at one point people felt an affinity with the cars they drove, a Beetle made on the Naas Rd., a Renault made in Wexford that the old type regs mean more; you could fill an interesting thread about the many car plants that once existed and the many people that worked building cars

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I did a bit more DVLA bashing and came across another Model 70's whoes revenue weight is listed online :) (for some reason only very few Model 70's show this online despite all having it in the V5 from what I have seen)

 

1838912961_Screenshot2019-08-21at13_58_44.thumb.png.3d319d006f030986eb7f074cfef7bcf8.png

 

also turns out TTW-R Block is a right headache that im still trying to wrap my head around 

its 94 Model 70's from TTW906R to TTW999R, however somewhere between TTW939R and TTW957R the chassis numbers fall behind by 3!

plus some extra weirdness with TTW906R itself (TTW912R for example is 6 regs ahead from 906, but its 9 chassis numbers ahead!)

then from TTW912R to TTW939R everything is hunky dory, then at some point after TTW939R the numbers fall out by 3...

which means if I calculate say TTW997Rs chassis number from TTW906R its correct, however if I use say TTW912-939R I overshoot by 3, but if I use TTW957R to figure out TTW997R chassis number its correct again!

augh this is proper headache inducing! LOL

 

on a separate note I was thinking about something, its said the Model 70 was introduced in June 1971, however the K Suffix was not rolled out until  the 1st of august 1971

so the VERY earliest Model 70's might actually be on a J plate! (and if im looking at the chassis numbers right, there are 100 Model 70's before the GPG-K block which is the earliest Model 70 block I know of)

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For once a hunch of mine proved correct. That is indeed a batch of 100 and there are six more after TTW999R registered TVW1-6R. I suspect your missing chassis numbers may be in that series. Good news is that TVW6R survived until the end (last taxed in April 2003) so you should be able to look up its chassis number.

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17 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

For once a hunch of mine proved correct. That is indeed a batch of 100 and there are six more after TTW999R registered TVW1-6R. I suspect your missing chassis numbers may be in that series.

Bloody hell nice work!

TVW1-6R and would you look at that TVW6R survived until 2003 so I pulled its chassis number and its right in between TTW906R and TTW912R

now I wonder if TTW906R is TVW4R, because if my maths is correct going by the chassis number of TTW906R it would be TVW4R

the reason I say this is while discussing/discovering this with Stuart he mentioned that he had to "correct" TTW906Rs numbers with the DVLA when he got the car but he now wonders if he accidently messed it up (at the time he thought the DVLA had messed things up or such)

and doing some maths if we assume that TTW906R is actually what came after TVW6R then indeed TTW906R is 6 chassis numbers away from TTW912R as it should be

I have given Stuart this new info that you have discovered and I eagerly await a response :)

(TVW-R is the shortest Invacar block by far LOL and what are the chances that one did survive until the end so I could pull its chassis numbers :) )

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Glad to be of service. A batch of 94 didn't seem right knowing they were usually built by the hundred and it was the sort of logic puzzle I like. Obviously the TTW-R series couldn't go beyond 999 so I worked out that TVW1R would have been the next issued after TTW999R, and sure enough hit six more Invacars. I was disappointed that the first five didn't survive into the 21st century (although TVW4R nearly did) so finding that TVW6R made it to 2003 so you could look it up was pleasing.

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22 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

Glad to be of service. A batch of 94 didn't seem right knowing they were usually built by the hundred and it was the sort of logic puzzle I like. Obviously the TTW-R series couldn't go beyond 999 so I worked out that TVW1R would have been the next issued after TTW999R, and sure enough hit six more Invacars. I was disappointed that the first five didn't survive into the 21st century (although TVW4R nearly did) so finding that TVW6R made it to 2003 so you could look it up was pleasing.

yes thank you very much! it plugs the gap between the SHJ-R and TTW-R blocks very nicely and solves the mystery of TTW906R :) 

there is still the fact that between TTW939R and TTW957R the chassis numbers "fall behind" by 3

for example TTW939R its chassis number is 6 digits ahead of the number of the registration number

but TTW957R's chassis is only 3 digits ahead of its registration number

indicating that 3 Model 70's between TTW939R and TTW957R might be private examples I think

sadly none between TTW939R and TTW957R survived into chassis number look up range

(not without a proper HPI check type thing anyway, and speaking of I have sent a PM "my guy" who can do those, and asked him if he can run TVW1R-TVW5R for me, focusing of TVW4R if he can only run 1)

but if there were private examples in TTW-R block, id of expected there to be 3 additional Model 70's made to compensate

like what happened with the REV-R block and REV451R etc

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On 8/14/2019 at 3:12 PM, LightBulbFun said:

that is a very valid concern! and something I have been thinking about (especially after driving a couple normal cars again) as yeah I had my left leg spazz out on me (quite literally) when trying to drive the BX, it really is quite frustrating

for that reason (and obviously just to see how good or bad the school/instructor is before lumping down a load of cash) my plan is to book a regular lesson or a few and see how those go, and then work out some sort of plan etc

so learn in an auto- you can always "upgrade" when able to later

 

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35 minutes ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

so learn in an auto- you can always "upgrade" when able to later

 

im hopping as I get more relaxed driving a normal car it will stop happening so often

as right now driving a normal car is still very "nerve wracking" for me which combined with my CP causes my muscles to tense up and spasm more exacerbating issues, like that leg thing, its not all the time, when driving but ill go for the clutch and my leg will play up and its like FFS stop it LOL

(I also think the way the clutch pedal is positioned exacerbates the leg thing as well as I have noticed in general day to day life at certain positions my leg will spassam out more)

although its hard for me to pinpoint what it is exactly in this case, as I have only got a chance to a drive a manual car twice so far

but yeah hopefully as I get more relaxed and used to driving, that it will be less of an issue

I know the invacar is automatic, but I plan to learn in a manual and get a full manual driving licence, I want to make sure i have all the options open to me, and its a good life skill to have etc :) 

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On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 12:50 AM, LightBulbFun said:

Heh, that's a very tempting offer but unfortunately I've recently acquired something plastic, automatic and two-stroke that hasn't run since the late 90s... gradually gathering the necessary bits to see if it'll run!

The Mk12 does look like an excellent proposition, and that's interesting to learn that a few did in fact make their way over to the Republic of Ireland... solves a few riddles!

I'm sure the car in the ad and the car in Stuart's pic is the same one - there's a triangular scuff on the front wing and another on the rear arch which are identical.

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41 minutes ago, Andyrew said:

Dez

You have any part numbers for service items on these? 

Plugs filters etc etc?

Plugs are Bosch W225 T1 or equivalent 

oil filter is a MANN W712 (unless you have an early Model 70 then its a a MANN H601)

Air filter is a MANN C1427

Oil is just your good ol 20W50 stuff (with the gearbox and diff needing SAE90 gear oil)

and we also got a bunch of service Items in the spare parts bundle :)

(as a side note the new air filter we stuck in dolly came in a plain white box with just the DHSSs ink stamp on it, not seen it like that before, must service items are in branded boxes with maybe a DHSS part number sticker slapped on it somewhere like the one I fitted to REV)

and then there's these chaps https://www.haflingertechnik.com/html/index.php

which could probably supply me with an entire engine if I so needed it :)

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18 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

Heh, that's a very tempting offer but unfortunately I've recently acquired something plastic, automatic and two-stroke that hasn't run since the late 90s... gradually gathering the necessary bits to see if it'll run!

The Mk12 does look like an excellent proposition, and that's interesting to learn that a few did in fact make their way over to the Republic of Ireland... solves a few riddles!

I'm sure the car in the ad and the car in Stuart's pic is the same one - there's a triangular scuff on the front wing and another on the rear arch which are identical.

unless you found 1 of only 6 Harpermatics made it being an automatic and 2 stroke rules out it being an invalid vehicle sadly,

not a sans permis car is it? :mrgreen: 

yeah I am quite curious about it, was it brought over and used in service in the ROI back in the 60s or so, or was it brought over after it entered private ownership I do wonder

its tempting to call the seller just to see if he has any details on the history of it, tho currently waiting to see if anyone here on the forum wants to buy it :)

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12 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

unless you found 1 of only 6 Harpermatics made it being an automatic and 2 stroke rules out it being an invalid vehicle sadly,

not a sans permis car is it? :mrgreen: 

Nope, afraid not - and it has 33% fewer wheels, too...

20190622_174315.thumb.jpg.1b6d3d29f66dbcafaf2c5323c0e0b532.jpg

 

Quote

yeah I am quite curious about it, was it brought over and used in service in the ROI back in the 60s or so, or was it brought over after it entered private ownership I do wonder

its tempting to call the seller just to see if he has any details on the history of it, tho currently waiting to see if anyone here on the forum wants to buy it :)

I'm sure the seller would be happy to chat - after all, he could probably learn more from you than you might from him!

If it is one of the 5 second hand invalid vehicles sent over by the Rotary Club in the 1960s, he may want to add that to his advert...

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Just In case you need anything through me.

Shitters trade prices 

Oc21 mahle oil filter £1.50 +vat

5110 b7hs ngk plugs £1.20 each +vat

20/50 classic Castrol 5ltr . £16+vat

20/50 normal brand £11.00+ Vat

Sae90 (ep or non ep) £10 +vat per litre Castrol classic.

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Oh thank you very much for the kind offer/gesture :)

ill keep it in mind :)

for what its worth here's the lube chart from a Late Model 70, it does remind me about the grease points, kinda forgot about those as no one on the forum with a Model 70 seems to do them!

669253569_WOI654VINplate.jpg.f4afd257733ae54794d676ab2c2ed176.thumb.jpg.8b28553ef6c5921cd2cb149e3002dddf.jpg

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So as you do I was lying awake last night thinking about Derry Preston-Cobb and his 600cc Model 70, and it occurred to me that this would probably count as a private example. After all, he ran the company that made the things so it would make far more sense to get one straight from the factory than to go through the DHSS bureaucracy. That train of thought led to a possible explanation for some of the other private cars. If I remember rightly many of Invacar's employees were themselves disabled, and maybe they were able to buy one cheaply through a staff discount scheme (or could even be given one as a reward for loyal service)? Otherwise I still struggle to work out why anybody would buy a Model 70 instead of getting a free one from the government.   

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10 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

So as you do I was lying awake last night thinking about Derry Preston-Cobb

I'll leave this here... check the letter about half way down the page...
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/september-1974/36/vintage-postbag

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40 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

So as you do I was lying awake last night thinking about Derry Preston-Cobb and his 600cc Model 70, and it occurred to me that this would probably count as a private example. After all, he ran the company that made the things so it would make far more sense to get one straight from the factory than to go through the DHSS bureaucracy. That train of thought led to a possible explanation for some of the other private cars. If I remember rightly many of Invacar's employees were themselves disabled, and maybe they were able to buy one cheaply through a staff discount scheme (or could even be given one as a reward for loyal service)? Otherwise I still struggle to work out why anybody would buy a Model 70 instead of getting a free one from the government.   

650cc to be pedantic :) AFAIK Steyr puch never made a 600cc version of their engine, the engine sizes went from 493cc right to 643cc/660cc

but yes indeed that's an interesting thought, @Datsuncog also wondered the same :) https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-invacar-model-70-acquired-and-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-phase-2-finding-a-suitable-driving-schoolinstructor-getting-lessons-and-a-licence/page/21/?tab=comments#comment-1743569

 AC also sold private Model 70's too (RRE20L JNJ135L and NPN924P are the 3 known survivors)  so I wonder why those were bought as well

sadly Mrs constance Nina bendall the first owner of REV, is no longer with us so I cant ask her as to why she bought REV...

Ill have to double check with stuart on the disabled workers thing but that could be a thing as you say, I do also wonder if he knows the reg of Derries Model 70 :)

when I made my facebook post on the Microcar world FB group I asked stuart how much a Model 70 cost new back in the day, and he said

"A brand new Model 70 was £1,799 (In actual old money too) ex works in 1977. Compare this with a brand new mini costing about a grand at the same time."

im not sure what he means by Ex works in this case? I know you hear the term a lot with race cars!

 

on a related note Fraser might be getting RRE20L back and I have been trying to convince him to save it/get it going rather then strip it for spares

(its quite frustrating, as he did VES108S up when it did not really need it, but now when he might be getting a Model 70 that needs it and is worth saving, he does not really want to do it :( )

 

(side note on the engine stuff, P5 had both the 400cc industrial engine and then the fiat 500 engine/gearbox with cut down drive shafts, apparently it was lethal on the corners :mrgreen: prototype 6 had a Steyr puch engine and normal length drive shafts with rear wheel arches like a production Model 70, im not sure what gearbox/transmission it had tho)

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