invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[kirton]

I thought this thread was the place rather than News.

Just got my Friends of Beamish magazine;  They are opening their new Bus Depot on 24th October and "Members of the Invalid Carriage Register will present their first ever working demonstration of invalid carriages...........driving four extremely rare examples around the museum"   but presumably not demonstrating their top speed if Dollywobbler isn't there.

[LightBulbFun]

17 minutes ago, kirton said:

I thought this thread was the place rather than News.

Just got my Friends of Beamish magazine;  They are opening their new Bus Depot on 24th October and "Members of the Invalid Carriage Register will present their first ever working demonstration of invalid carriages...........driving four extremely rare examples around the museum"   but presumably not demonstrating their top speed if Dollywobbler isn't there.

ohh interesting thanks for letting me know  , I know "OYP595" is mobile and so is their Tippen Delta, I wonder what the other 2 are!

is anyone going to be there? Id like detailed shots of all the invalid vehicles if possible for my records etc  

(especially the chassis number of "OYP595" so I can finally figure out its real ID, I have had a tip off on what it actually is, but id like to confirm for myself)

 

I dont think Dollywobbler has achieved Vmax yet in TWC! (he managed to get to 70 then backed off to 60)

to be honest a Vmax run in TPA would be even more exciting, given how much quicker TPA is then TWC!

(I still dont know what the actual confirmed top speed of a Model 70 is, 82Mph is the commonly thrown around figure, but I have not had that confirmed and I have had a few reports of Model 70's doing 85-95Mph!)

[LightBulbFun]

between the 17th and 19th I was away up north, to attend my sister's wedding, 6 hour car ride there and then another one back!

anyways heres me spots from the trip, sadly not as many as I would of hoped for!

there was the fun game of spot the 69'ers  

 

postman pat getting an upgrade*?

 

jet fly past, im sure the plane guys can ID what make/Model it is  

 

Mmm crusty  

 

 

and just when I thought all the wedding guests where showing up in boring moderns, this chap who goes by the alias of "spud" showed up in a Lovely Base Citroen AX  

 

 

turns out he has 3 Citroen AX's a CX and 12 cars in total, so of course I asked if he was on the forum! he said he had heard of the forum but not checked it out/joined, so I told him of my Invacar tales, and showed him the forum on my phone quickly, where he said he will check it out, so hopefully he signs up, he seems like he would fit in well here!

 

at my sisters husbands parents place where the reception was happening, was this in the garage much to my surprise! belongs to the dad of my sisters husband

 

I did try and get an overview shot but utterly failed LOL, its some sort of Jag based kit car, looks like it would be quite a lot of fun, and with the side exit exhaust I bet it makes a nice noise!

 

there where also a bunch of motorbikes in the garage that I failed to grab a photo of

 

and here's the spots on the way back

 

I see @Cavcraft has already got to work on his new camper!

one for the motorway services shite thread  

 

happy to pap a Routemaster  RML887, sadly it seems like its been plated raped again, (according to ians bus stop it was plate raped, then re-registered WLT887 again, but evidently its lost its original plate again)

I wonder how much I could sell this picture to a stock photo website for! 

I was VERY pleasantly surprised to see these span wire street lights on the motorway, I had thought they were all replaced years ago, I would love to add one to the collection, IIRC each street liight takes 2! 180W SOX lamps, massive beasts they are, I think these are either Philips MO-62 or Phosco P415 motorway lanterns 

 

and that concludes my wedding trip spotting  

[LightBulbFun]

today is a good day because Simon of the ICR

finally got back to me on "OYP595"s chassis number

and I can finally confirm that "OYP595" is PPC363R  (which as a vintage apple computer enthusiast I find pretty cool ) 

so now I can finally add it to my survivors list yay!

he also got the chassis number of VPF so I was able to confirm that its numbers all add up  

also some close up number plate porn for @MorrisItalSLX

 

doesn't look like a Tippers plate to me so I wonder who made it then

[MorrisItalSLX]

The font looks like Hills to me, but the lack of logo centred on the bottom edge throws a spanner in the works for that theory.

[LightBulbFun]

 

quoting this

 

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

and heres a good view on how the rollover bar is attached in a Model 70 looks like its clamped in place so they would of put the rear body work over the chassis then dropped the rollover bar through the rear body and bolted it to the chassis, and I imagine you would simply unbolt it and remove it, should you need to remove the rear bodywork

you also get a good view of the brake booster in Dolly, its interesting to note that it gets vacuum from a tap in the manifold, and I wonder do Model 70's that dont have the brake booster fitted (which is most) have this port on the manifold with it just being blocked off, or does Dolly have a custom manifold of sorts with this vacuum tap off added? (I guess ill have to check on REV at some point!)

 

over to my thread just so people who were wondering about this 

 

On 8/27/2019 at 12:46 PM, LightBulbFun said:

Yeah me and stuart are not sure how they did that either!

heres a picture of WOO871S, where someones hacked off most of the body work, and hacked off the rollover bar

but you can see the stubs by the wheel, and they look welded to the chassis

so unless the rollover bar is actually removable at the point of those stubs I dont see how you could get the rear bodywork off LOL

(and getting on they would of had to have welded the bar on with the body work already in place which I cant imagine was easy)

its something for me to inspect closely on REV next time i see her  

finally know how you would get the rear body work off on rollover bar Model 70's!

 

 

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

also interesting to note that at least 1 of dollies rear lights, has a base made out of rubber, where as im pretty sure most others I have seen have a metal base of sorts (like the ones on TWC) I cant quite read what the cursive text says sadly as I struggle a lot with Cursive 

 

 

I did a bit of quick googling and found the rubbolites https://www.truck-lite.eu.com/m88 (I do wonder what it the difference is between single and double pole in this context/case?) are indeed still for sale, or at least you can still buy them! http://www.tranzparts.co.uk/truck/cabin-rear-side-lights/general-lighting/trucklite-rear-lamp-cluster/kltf0180-rubbolite-88-02-01 

and as mentioned you can get them without the clear bit for the number plate light still it seems which is nice (since thats not applicable/suitable for a Model 70, and its hard to find the britax versions without the clear from what I have seen, although I did just find https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232666691469  )

its interesting to note that the rubbolites have circular lense patterns where I the britax ones dont

I wonder who copied who on these lights, was it rubbolite who came out with them then britax copied them or did britax come out with them and then rubbolite copied britax?

also I wonder what are those screws/rivets that hold the rear light base onto the body and how do they work exactly?

(im quite surprised to see theres no reflector in the rubbolite version although it may be that Dolly's one had reflectors that were lost overtime)

[Mrs6C]

@Retr0naut's nice photo of Rev in the twilight on @Six-cylinder's thread reminds me that I have been pondering the origin of the shape of the Thundersley badge on the nose of their version of the Invacar. It is very similar in style to the Thunderbird badge that Ford would apply to said models in 1955 to 1957. Is that a co-incidence or did Thundersley want to make something of the similar name for their vehicle? How old is that Thundersley logo? Note the colour of the badge background, also. Is that the source of the idea for 'Invacar blue'?

The Thunderbird as a symbol pre-dates Ford's application of it by centuries, of course, being sacred for many native peoples of the Americas...

[LightBulbFun]

I too have wondered where the Invacar badge is from exactly 

Im pretty sure that even the first Invacars had it as seen on this early invacar here  which means it predates the ford logo by a few years

 

BTW you say "or did Thundersley want to make something of the similar name for their vehicle? " I assume you mean Invacar? the name of the Company was "Invacar Ltd" Thundersley is just the place they where based/made  

(and then Invacar Ltd Made Greeves Motorcycles, much like how British Leyland made Morris marina or such)

[Mrs6C]

^^^ Fair point; it's written on the badge, though!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invacar#/media/File:Emblem_Invacar.JPG

[LightBulbFun]

Yeah

its interesting to note that REV's badge is screwed on, I think most other Model 70's have it riveted on, but I sadly don't have many close up pictures of the Invacar badge on Invacar Model 70's!

(said screws also look quite rusty, so I think ill stick it on the list of things to replace in time, I don't want to lose her badge due to rusty screws!)

 

BTW @MorrisItalSLX can you remind me which museum this Model 67 AC Acedes Mk15 is in?, with @dollywobbler heading to Australia, I think its an opportunity to finally get some detailed info/pictures of it  (its not one stuart knows anything about either as well sadly)

[MorrisItalSLX]

10 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

BTW @MorrisItalSLX can you remind me which museum this Model 67 AC Acedes Mk15 is in?, with @dollywobbler heading to Australia, I think its an opportunity to finally get some detailed info/pictures of it  (its not one stuart knows anything about either as well sadly)

It’s here: http://charliesautomuseum.com.au/

It is a fantastic museum full of fantastic stuff, so if you find yourself down Melbourne way...

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, MorrisItalSLX said:

It’s here: http://charliesautomuseum.com.au/

It is a fantastic museum full of fantastic stuff, so if you find yourself down Melbourne way...

very cool thank you  

funny to think that, that AC Acedes Mk15 is probably one of his rarest cars, with only 10 or so Model 67's known to survive! (that includes both Mk14's and Mk15's AFAIK)

would love to know the story behind where/how he got it

and his Model 67' along with "ALB761A" are the only 2 that I know of that look to be even remotely road worthy

[MorrisItalSLX]

From my memory of going there, about 2-3 years ago, he had a bunch of prototypes and experimental cars from around the world, not much hum-drum stuff at all.

[LightBulbFun]

2 minutes ago, MorrisItalSLX said:

From my memory of going there, about 2-3 years ago, he had a bunch of prototypes and experimental cars from around the world, not much hum-drum stuff at all.

funny ya should say that

because this specific Model 67 is unusual in that its right hand door example with the controls flipped from how they normally are in a Model 67 (or any other Villiers machine)

the MoH/DHSS stance on things was you always got in and out on the left hand side of the car even on the 2 door Model 70 your only really supposed to use the left hand side if you can help it, and the seat on the Model 70 is bias to the right giving more room on the left for a Folding wheelchair (and on the steering wheel Model 70's they are ever so slightly slightly RHD LOL as I found out when examining Dolly closely)

it was this Model 67's flipped layout that initially made me think  that the Mk15 had 2 doors, when it really doesn't LOL

as Stuart said "Theres always one that messes up the system" which is very true  

[quicksilver]

The advice to use the left door makes sense as that is the kerb side, but try that with Dolly and you'll impale yourself on the handbrake

I guess that Model 67 was a special build for a left-handed driver. I wonder where the numberplate came from as H511 XRR doesn't show up as belonging to any vehicle.

[LightBulbFun]

18 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

The advice to use the left door makes sense as that is the kerb side, but try that with Dolly and you'll impale yourself on the handbrake

I guess that Model 67 was a special build for a left-handed driver. I wonder where the numberplate came from as H511 XRR doesn't show up as belonging to any vehicle.

aye! its worth noting that Dolly's seat is bolted in place so it cant be slid over, and the mechanism you operate to move the seat has been disabled

instead she seems to be fitted with some sort of slide over box, that the driver would slide onto to get out of the vehicle

given how Dolly was defo setup for someone with weak arms, I wonder if the reason for the slide over box was because said person could not operate the sliding seat due to weak arms or such

I wonder how much effort dolly's/TJN352R's hand brake takes to operate, (TJN352R has the same hand brake setup as Dolly, but mounted on the right hand side of the car as opposed to the left side on Dolly) as I know the dash mounted setup does take a bit of effort to operate, so I wonder if the setup in Dolly/TJN is another adaptation for someone with weak arms

I will say its a shame the dash mounted heater/choke controls of Dolly was not adopted as a normal feature for the Model 70 Mark B as I find when you do get in/out from the right hand side you tend to accidently clatter the floor mounted heater/choke controls (which one of the reasons I imagine they were originally roof mounted on the Model 70 Mark A)

(on that note I do wonder from time to time what sort of foot controls REV was fitted with originally, the only clue I have is a cutout in the rubber floor matting)

 

for some reason I have it in my head that H511XRR is from a Reliant of some kind, but as you say it does not show up as anything on the DVLA

[LightBulbFun]

Dash cam for REV arrived today from @paulplom  

10/10 Seller would buy amazon fuck ups from him again anytime! LOL

 

I wasn't immediately looking for a dash cam for REV (I have higher priorities like driving lessons!)

but since the opportunity presented itself I decided to jump on it, as I know at some point I would be getting one anyway

aside for being good for spotting chod as I drive around London, im hoping having a dashcam visibly mounted to the windscreen will help deter anyone from messing with REV (and also give some indication to any parking wardens, combined with the new tyres ill be fitting and maybe some polished brightwork, that no she is not being abandoned here!)

its a apeman C450 for those wondering, I have never owned a dash cam before so it will be an interesting experience, first thing is figuring out the chinglish in the instruction manual LOL

[LightBulbFun]

Ok so who recently bought what I suspect is the 45th Invacar off the production line recently and DIDN'T tell me?! I know it one of you! (well I hope it was ) 

 

totally fluke discovering this, I had just been tipped off about CJN446, (id been tipped off that it existed not that it had changed hands recently)

and I saw that it was SORN so I knew that I should be able to pull details on it so I went to check its keeper count and last keeper change 

which much to my surprise was just 2 weeks ago!

 

and shhh no one tell @Mrs6C  (I think this is the a result of the fact I think SNO40 was a reclaimed reg job, note the date of first registration being 1983)

 

[LightBulbFun]

I was reading up on my Traffic signs while waiting for impending doom I mean the Tribunal later today https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/519129/know-your-traffic-signs.pdf

and I was surprised to see this  

in that I was not surprised at the rule, I already know about that but I did not expect to see any other modern Government documentation make reference to the original invalid carriage regulations  

but its good to have as its another second official government source that you can show/quote to anyone if anyone questions you driving your Model 70 (or Mk12 if your particularly brave/insane  ) on the motorway

[martc]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

I was reading up on my Traffic signs while waiting for impending doom I mean the Tribunal later today https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/519129/know-your-traffic-signs.pdf

and I was surprised to see this  

in that I was not surprised at the rule, I already know about that but I did not expect to see any other modern Government documentation make reference to the original invalid carriage regulations  

but its good to have as its another second official government source that you can show/quote to anyone if anyone questions you driving your Model 70 (or Mk12 if your particularly brave/insane  ) on the motorway

Mobility scooters are still officially classed as 'invalid carriages' - class 2 invalid carriages are the smaller pavement bound ones, class 3's are the larger ones that can be used on the road, but not motorways. So whether that is referring to the older 'Invacar' style carriages or the modern electric ones is open to debate (I suspect it means electric ones). The Highway Code does have a list of laws/rules/Acts of Parliament at the back which may shed light on what definition(s) is(are) currently being used (again I suspect it'll be for electric ones as the petrol ones are officially obsolete).

Older viewers may remember the list of prohibited vehicles at the approaches to motorways - I'm sure they included a reference to invalid carriages being prohibited.

[LightBulbFun]

36 minutes ago, martc said:

Mobility scooters are still officially classed as 'invalid carriages' - class 2 invalid carriages are the smaller pavement bound ones, class 3's are the larger ones that can be used on the road, but not motorways. So whether that is referring to the older 'Invacar' style carriages or the modern electric ones is open to debate (I suspect it means electric ones). The Highway Code does have a list of laws/rules/Acts of Parliament at the back which may shed light on what definition(s) is(are) currently being used (again I suspect it'll be for electric ones as the petrol ones are officially obsolete).

Older viewers may remember the list of prohibited vehicles at the approaches to motorways - I'm sure they included a reference to invalid carriages being prohibited.

Aye indeed im well aware  sadly 99% of stuff you find these days only talks about Class 3 mobility scooters, nothing talks about the original Invalid carriage specification 

however I know from reading other material that since it says 254Kg its talking about old school invalid carriages/vehicles ("new style" invalid carriages aka mobility scooters have a max weight of 150Kg the specification of which comes from chronically sick and disabled persons act 1970 IIRC)

to quote the road traffic act of 1930  which was the first to define an invalid carriage spec:

Quote

 

invalid carriages, that is mechanically propelled vehicles the weight of which unladen does not exceed five hundredweight and are specifically designed and constructed and not merely adapted for the use of persons suffering from some physical defect or disability and which are used solely by such persons

 

 

 

 

any invalid vehicle above 5Cwt is not an Invalid carriage (its why you see me say "invalid vehicle" rather then invalid carriage when to all vintage vehicles of such types)

(but if it has 3 wheels and weighs less than 410Kg its a "Motor cycle" and if it weighs more than 410Kg and/or has more then 3 wheels than its a "motor car", which is fun because Early Model 70's are 410Kg on the V5 later Model 70's are 413Kg on the V5 so TPA is a Motor cycle but REV is a Motor car LOL the one thing I do know is earlier V5's included the decimal point while later V5's chopped it off for example REV451R is 413.2Kg in her 1985 V5 but 413Kg in later ones, so the 410Kg Model 70's may have actually been 410.Something Kg but I dont know since I have sadly not seen a 1980s or earlier V5 for one)

 

 

its worth noting the Petrol ones where never made "officially obsolete"

its just the Government withdrew and scrapped all the ones that they happened to own, they were never officially banned or made officially obsolete or such

private examples like CJN446, WVX947, ,JNJ135L, JHJ548N, NPN924P, REV451R etc, continued to run around unabated 

the problem is that when lesginstations where updated the ones for these old school invalid vehicles where either never updated or where never included in the new legislations  so they just float around in a void of confusion and a lot is open to interpretations!

to add to the fun of things, Modern road registered mobility scooters have the same "invalid vehicle" body type that vintage Invalid vehicles do too!

(also do Remember there where electric variants of the old school invalid vehicle as well  , the AC Model 64, Argson Electric and Electric Tippen Delta to name a few!)

welcome to the world of the invalid vehicle!

[Noel Tidybeard]

rubbolite looks to have an reflector to me young man! lol

[LightBulbFun]

Just now, Noel Tidybeard said:

rubbolite looks to have an reflector to me young man! lol

ah sorry I was thinking in Lighting enthusiast mode!

by reflector I mean the silver backing that goes behind a light source to reflect light forward of said light source  

 

 

Finally after over a year of fighting the f*ckers I have a result, a good result! Looks like I finally won! (well I think so if im reading it correctly!)

many many (repeat ad infinitum) thanks to @Zelandeth for helping me in my time of need during this whole clusterf*ck, and for coming with me to the tribunal with me today! I am seriously thankful for the help you have provided and just being there for me so I was not all alone during all of it!

 

this is technically not the end of the road, ideally I should be on PIP as well, but im very relieved and happy to at least be on ESA, as it should cover my basic expenses and allow me to properly research into getting PIP in my own time/leasure

and of course the money from ESA will help me moblise myself with REV which I very much look forward to  hopefully all this combined down the road will  help lead to getting a Job!  (and I can finally get that dental appointment sorted out LOL! as well as probably look into renewing my glasses)

 

also now with all the government stuff finally done and over with for now! I can finally focus on getting driving lessons, Ill be calling them in a couple weeks or so as I need to recoperate first after all of this! (the past 2 weeks or so have been very bad/painful on the back)

[martc]

Not sure 'like' is the right thing - but a good result, and a little closer to getting on the road!

[LightBulbFun]

4 minutes ago, martc said:

Not sure 'like' is the right thing - but a good result, and a little closer to getting on the road!

Yeah I know what you mean! I appreciate the compliment  

[plasticvandan]

Here's a challenge for you,more because I want to see them than anything else! Do you think you could find some photos inside the Heywood stores where all the invacars and parts were stored? Many years ago I did get to see a couple.

[LightBulbFun]

48 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

Here's a challenge for you,more because I want to see them than anything else! Do you think you could find some photos inside the Heywood stores where all the invacars and parts were stored? Many years ago I did get to see a couple.

*cracks knuckles*

 

note the the towing eye on the AC Acedes Mk15's thats are not present on the Mk14 and the Model 70  

someone left the indicators on one of the Model 70's!

 

 

and where wheelchairs go to die!

 

 

IIRC Julian got a chance to visit in the 1990s and snapped some pictures would be very cool to see those some day  

[Mrs6C]

5 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

That

^^^ that lot are as cute as a basket full of kittens!

 

[plasticvandan]

Julian's were the ones I saw,in colour ! Apparently it was a jaw dropping experience,they were stacked three high as far as you could see

[Mrs6C]

Top job on the Tribunal outcome!

Glad that @Zelandeth was able to help you out with this. It must be a huge weight off your mind.