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Invacar Model 70 Acquired! and general ramble thread, index on page 1, Phase 2: finding a suitable driving school/instructor getting lessons and a licence! proof of H and J Reg Model 70's discovered!

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On 5/12/2019 at 9:58 PM, Joey spud said:

20190512_134715.thumb.jpg.70430d647ea7c55f13a2ee0ded6e1fb6.jpg

Ten inch cross ply remould tyres for extra win.

 

looking at this again helped me solve a little bit of a mystery that has been rolling around in my head for a while

in that the 145R10 tyres fitted to TPA always looked that little bit meatier then what I had seen on other Model 70's on 10 inch wheels, in period photos and the such

and when I was at the FoD I had a look at Dollies/REVs wheels quickly to see if I could make anything out, and I noted some markings, but I could not make out anything that looked like a tyre size or so I thought

when I noticed the above tyre has the same "520-10" markings that the Tires on Dolly/REV had (tho im not 100% positive since the bad sidewall cracking made it hard to make out but it was certainly something similar)

and indeed googling 520-10 turns out it is a tyre size, primarily used on trailers it seems! but I noticed they are 128Mm in width, as opposed to the 145's on TPA which explains why TPAs tyres looked a bit "chunkier" then what I normally see in period photos etc

its one of these small things that I have noticed that I have been wondering about for a while and am happy to have finally solved :) 

(the other thing on TPA I noticed is how relatively high up the tyres seem to sit in the wheel arches like the car has been lowered some, I do wonder if this is an illusion of the wider tyres, or because TPA is sitting lower then normal for one reason or another, the 520-10 tyres actually have a slightly wider overall diameter then the 145R10s on TPA so I dont think its down to overall diameter, I do look at other Model 70 pictures from time to time regarding it, but its been hard for me to draw a conclusion on if TPA is sitting lower then normal or if its just my eyes playing tricks on me)

 

it will be interesting to see how REV looks on 145R10 tyres and how it compares to TPA, especially as REV is a 10 inch car whereas TPA was a 12 inch Car, I still plan to buy the same BN313s that TPA has (they look to be the better and cheaper tyre then 520-10's and if I can get away with the extra width then I will since more grip is always a good thing!)

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21 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

Ah, cross ply tyres, that brings back memories, radial on the back cross ply on the front. Illegal the otherway around and could produce some interesting handling.

ah interesting I did notice the 520-10 tyre I was looking at on an online tyre shop as marked as cross ply, I also I do recall @Mrs6C mentioning something about that when I pointed out that we have 1 tyre on the list of things in the spares stash :) (I find it rather amusing for some reason, a whole bunch of Model 70 parts and 1 Random Spare tyre LOL)

is 520-10 a cross ply only rating/ did Crossplay have their own way of donating tyre type/size?

 

reminds me of JNJ135L's MOT fail :) https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-invacar-model-70-acquired-and-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-phase-2-finding-a-suitable-driving-schoolinstructor-getting-lessons-and-a-licence-proof-of-h-and-j-reg-model-70s-discovered/?do=findComment&comment=1816914 

 

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On the tyre front, I have taken the liberty of ordered us a set each of new Mini 10" tyre inner tubes, so that we can get Dolly and REV to have tyres that will stay up independently of the state of the sidewalls! Being as it would be inconvenient to have either immobile due to flat tyres and the state of REV's sidewalls makes ongoing driving a bit of a risky business, it was a cheap solution to a pair of problems. The Mini Spares Centre is winging them southwards as I type; DHL should deliver them all tomorrow. The chap taking the order was a bit bemused when I said I wanted six of them but then quite amused when I advised the intended application! :-)

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On 9/10/2019 at 3:03 PM, dollywobbler said:

I'm yet to drive two Invacars with the same throttle set-up! TWC's works best, with a chunky handle and a smooth action.

 

MHJ has a few mods, which suggest later improvements. The indicator stalk is one, the electric screenwash another. I may have to concede that this is a better idea than the manual pump...

...and the hole in the dash is nicely switch shaped! 👌

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3 hours ago, Mrs6C said:

On the tyre front, I have taken the liberty of ordered us a set each of new Mini 10" tyre inner tubes, so that we can get Dolly and REV to have tyres that will stay up independently of the state of the sidewalls! Being as it would be inconvenient to have either immobile due to flat tyres and the state of REV's sidewalls makes ongoing driving a bit of a risky business, it was a cheap solution to a pair of problems. The Mini Spares Centre is winging them southwards as I type; DHL should deliver them all tomorrow. The chap taking the order was a bit bemused when I said I wanted six of them but then quite amused when I advised the intended application! :-)

oh thank you very much, happy to know we will be able to run around in REV (and hopefully dolly!) without the risk of a sudden blow out :) yeah I can imagine ordering tyres and such things in multiples of 3 can lead to to funny looks :mrgreen:

 

3 hours ago, busmansholiday said:

ohh very interesting, thank you :) (cool to see 145R10 is the "recommended" replacement for 520-10 cross ply's, interesting to see 165/70R10 listed too, I recall seeing those in my searches, I imagine they would be a bit too wide to fit to a Model 70! (seeing how 145R10's just about fit without rubbing on the wheel arches) can you imagine a Model 70 on full mini racing slicks :mrgreen: )

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image.png.fde8669a6211a6844e4a203277667695.png

"is this the vehicle you are looking for?"

image.thumb.png.7e61e3dc1b9a59e1249fd1bafcc00f3d.png

 

(I imagine the few remaining people still reading this thread will have already figured it out, but for those who have not figured it out, its another case of random "invacar" in a block of AC Model 70's LOL)

with slightly more DVLA shenanigans then normal, in that one thing I have noticed is in quite a few (but not all) cases of an Invacar in a block of ACs or an AC in a block of invacars is that the date of first registrations are usually slightly whacky usually 1981 or something like that, and I imagine said whacky date of first registration is something to do when the DVLA centralised/computerised, however generally the year of manufacture is usually correct for the block of Model 70's its part of

but not on this one! LOL the WPC-M block is from July 1974, but this one comes back as 1972...

 

screencapture-vehicleenquiry-service-gov-uk-ViewVehicle-2019-09-14-01_40_18.thumb.png.a96216337b0e286dda6209b369272f1b.png

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53 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

Regarding the Invicar that was at the Streetlife museum in Hull, I've ran the reg through DVLA and it comes up no trace found. 

aye indeed, sadly when it comes to Pre Model 70 invalid vehicles, so very few still show up on the online checker sadly (GVW600H does still show up however thankfully, if your curious what the GVW564H would of most likely shown up as)

I get very excited just when I find a Villiers/Electric invalid vehicle who's reg still shows up on the DVLA  at all, let alone its last taxed date or anything else. just because of how few do show up still

but as @egg demonstrated through sheer perseverance, all hope is not lost if it does not show up on the DVLA checker :) (im still awestruck by that :) really is good news for invacars and vintage vehicles in general!)

(I assume by ran the reg through the DVLA you mean you popped it into this checker right? https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/ )

 

 

on a bit of a separate note

does anyone know, what the first vehicle was to use these rear lights was and who actually made them and what their part number is? they are the rear lights as used on the Production Model 70's

image.thumb.png.e71fea424c1c14b29cd80924d9293eff.png

 

originally I thought they were from the Mk1 reliant Robin, however I quickly realised that the Model 70 predated that, and then John said they were from the Reliant regal, but talking with Stuart, the Reliant Regal seemingly only switched from the L572 Lucas rear lights (as found on the Model 67 and Tippen Delta also) to the above rear lights in August 1972, again well after the Model 70 entered production 

as far as I can tell, the Model 70 IS the earliest vehicle to use those lights, however I imagine if they were made for the Model 70 then they would of made them match the rear tail shape that was made for the Lucas L572 lights 

its worth noting that rather interestingly, stuart managed to dig up a rear facing picture of BPE35H (one of the July 1970 Pre production Model 70's made for user trials we suspect) and it has L572 Rear lights like the Model 67 etc

 

obviously there's the question of did the first production Model 70's actually also use the Model 67 L572 lucas rear lights as well? however GPG721K has the above lights fitted, and the L572 rear lights require a large hole to be cut into the body work for them to fit, which we think would of been too much hassle to patch over for someone to have retrofitted GPG721K at some point, and also the workshop manual shows the above rear lights and not Lucas L572 rear lights, so currently we think that all Production Model 70's even the earliest had the above rear lights rather then Lucas L572

 

for reference here's a Model 67 with one of the rear lights missing so you can see the large hole im talking about

 

image.png.bfc9fb3a2fbc870c422e3f14c25ef6cd.png

theres also the question of why did they switch from the L572 lights on the Model 67 to the above lights for the Model 70

we wonder if it was because the L572 lights where being discontinued however given Reliant kept using them until Aug 1972 we are not sure if this was the case, however reliant could of simply have had a large stockpile of them

 

you knows its funny, I like to joke and say when I see a reliant of some kind or another vehicle that use the lights, that they have the rear lights off a Model 70, I say it jokingly since the Model 70 is the one drawing from everyone elses parts bin and not the other way round

however it would be hilarious if it did turn out the Model 70 was the first vehicle to use the rear lights it has :mrgreen:

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3 hours ago, Cavcraft said:

145x10 tyres are the radial equivalent of 5.20/10 crossplies. Ditch the crossplies if you still have them fitted.

Thanks :)

dont worry they will be getting ditched before I hit the public highway! (given that they are probably about 20 years old if not older and have more cracks in the sidewall then a dropped iPhone id be replacing them regardless of their type) as mentioned before im eying up a set of BN313's as they seem to be working very well for Zel and TPA :)

but on that note it would be interesting to carry out a handling test between a Model 70 on crossplies and a Model 70 on Radials, I think most of the handling data I have for the Model 70 was from ones on Crossplies, crossplies where cheaper than radials back in the day right? so it makes sense that an effective fleet vehicle was fitted with them

I know for example a Model 70 pushed to its limits will oversteer rather then just fall over like everyone expects, but I dont know what tyres that info is from (or even what Size tyres for that matter, although I know separately a period video of a Model 70 on 12 inch tyres where you can see the back end let go just a little bit during hard cornering before the driver catches/corrects it

 

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They were possibly cheaper when the change over came and are probably ok for low speeds. Ones that are 40 odd years old and remoulds are probably like filling Kwik Save carrier bags with porridge and sellotaping them to the rims. 

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46 minutes ago, Cavcraft said:

They were possibly cheaper when the change over came and are probably ok for low speeds. Ones that are 40 odd years old and remoulds are probably like filling Kwik Save carrier bags with porridge and sellotaping them to the rims. 

LOL!

I mean a comparison between a new set of radials and a new set of crossplies, otherwise that would not be a fair test would it :)

interestingly you can still get new 5.20/10 crossplys https://www.vintagetyres.com/shop/tyres/camac-bc110-520-10-64l but they are a lot more expensive then the equivlent 145R10's https://www.vintagetyres.com/shop/camac-bn313-145r10-68s

im guessing these days Crossplys cost more due to the lower demand etc?

I know on the handling front for Radials, the 2 Model 70's on the road here on autoshite are both on Radials so that does give me a bit more data then what id normally have, I know Zel said that TPA will grip the road much more than you would expect, but I dont think Zel has found the limit yet, so I dont know if TPA would under or oversteer, she is on 145R10s, I know DW said TWC will tend to understeer on her 125R12 Mitchalian X's when pushed hard

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so this popped up for sale a week ago or so https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174021630665

I didn't post about it at the time as I knew @OliD-E was interested in it, and I did not want to draw undue attention to it

but sadly the seller wanted/wants £LOL for it and just pulled the listing before the bidding finished

I do have to say, im a bit perplexed by it, the seller pulled the drive train out of a Model 70 a vehicle that was a 3 wheeler in the first place, to Build a tricycle, that he now cant drive because disabled...

I feel like he should of just left it in the poor Model 70 it was ripped out of! 

425341225_s-l1600(2)copy6.thumb.jpg.47bbd5c4d9cf2d062bde77bbffab6d35.jpg

 

(also I do wonder if its actually 600cc as Steyr puch never made a 600c engine, they only made the engine in 493cc, 643cc and 660cc forms)

 

 

I do know of a Model 70 that sold back in 2011-2012 that was sold drivetrain-less, I wonder if we are looking at its drive train!, sadly I dont know what became of this Model 70

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ac-invacar-type-70-need-restoration-312223445

ac-invacar-type-70-need-restoration_360_65b95099c3c4443247f259aa90b2e017.jpg.570734710176a0e3ac560d7b44b1f4cd.jpg

(although reading the listing description it says the drive train went to another car that was restored, so we probably are not looking at its drive train)

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