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LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...


LightBulbFun

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Well Bollocks!

I finally got over my anxiety when it comes to making phone calls (im not sure why but I get really nervous and worried when Im about to make a phone call to someone, esp if its someone Unknown etc) and called the seller of the Mk12 ONO454D for more info on it, only to get blocked by my phone, because apparently 3 all in one add ons don't work for international calls and the seller/car is in the ROI which counts as an international call

so ill have to think what to do there...

25 minutes ago, egg said:

Not cheap is it!  PD is Surrey (just checked), makes sense as they were based in Egham.

So, the owner would need to get on to the Surrey History Centre to see if there is a record

https://www.surreycc.gov.uk/culture-and-leisure/history-centre

Yeah iv seen several of these early Invalid carriages show up for about £2.5K-£5K recently, mostly being marketed to hipsters n the such like sadly https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133123939077

does the history center say if they explicitly have vehicle records because Stuarts G Reg Harding is Surrey registered and he has been wanting to gather more info on it but stuart said that Surrey destroyed all of their vehicle records at one point sadly

(Stuart was going to try and V765 it, but I think with your success with XWC, he may try and V62 it now, or at least I hope he does :) im really curious what we can actually V62 now!)

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No, I've not found any evidence that they hold the records - I can't believe (well I can) they actually destroyed them, historic vandalism!

I would see if you could get a free trial for an international call company - this one do a free week's trial for example

https://www.rebtel.com/en/campaign/international-calling/?currency=gbp&gclid=CjwKCAjwwvfrBRBIEiwA2nFiPfmTTLDz6SbslmxzU7okpie_p4ETxMzVx_4kN6Nx9YxImbXBlF0VpxoCVasQAvD_BwE#{"country":"IE","currency":"gbp"}

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11 minutes ago, egg said:

No, I've not found any evidence that they hold the records - I can't believe (well I can) they actually destroyed them, historic vandalism!

I would see if you could get a free trial for an international call company - this one do a free week's trial for example

https://www.rebtel.com/en/campaign/international-calling/?currency=gbp&gclid=CjwKCAjwwvfrBRBIEiwA2nFiPfmTTLDz6SbslmxzU7okpie_p4ETxMzVx_4kN6Nx9YxImbXBlF0VpxoCVasQAvD_BwE#{"country":"IE","currency":"gbp"}

Yeah sadly Im not aware of the exact details, hopefully its not true!

thanks for the tip on the phone thing, i am aware of such services :) , ill see if I can borrow someone else's phone here when I can.

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16 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

Consecutive registration madness that I didn't notice until I started sorting the photos. What are the chances of two consecutively-registered 35-year old cars not only surviving but appearing at the same event? Sadly they didn't get together as the 2CV was only there yesterday and the GSA today.

do Model 70's count as cheating? :mrgreen:

I THINK MPH758P is a survivor, it being this one, but I have not 100% confirmed if it is MPH758P or not (supposedly it lives at motability HQ ironically enough...)

HYtQvpFQ.thumb.jpeg.d639fff96012ca3a7f47f207d0879469.jpeg

and of course we know MPH759P :) 

65720797_400748407212568_1784805083562047834_n.thumb.jpg.d3c38eafc7a21333ce67e33a0ab9b4c9.jpg

Stark contrasts much? :) 

sadly I dont think the 2 have ever been pictured together at the same show!

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7 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

LOL!

I mean a comparison between a new set of radials and a new set of crossplies, otherwise that would not be a fair test would it :)

interestingly you can still get new 5.20/10 crossplys https://www.vintagetyres.com/shop/tyres/camac-bc110-520-10-64l but they are a lot more expensive then the equivlent 145R10's https://www.vintagetyres.com/shop/camac-bn313-145r10-68s

im guessing these days Crossplys cost more due to the lower demand etc?

I know on the handling front for Radials, the 2 Model 70's on the road here on autoshite are both on Radials so that does give me a bit more data then what id normally have, I know Zel said that TPA will grip the road much more than you would expect, but I dont think Zel has found the limit yet, so I dont know if TPA would under or oversteer, she is on 145R10s, I know DW said TWC will tend to understeer on her 125R12 Mitchalian X's when pushed hard

Reliant fitted cross plies right to the mid 80s,and indeed had a warning in every owners handbook stating the fitting of radials was not recommended.The reason isn't cost,cross plies at the limit will slide,important in a three wheeler,radials will grip right until they let go completely,which,if you get to that point,means a rollover.

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15 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

Reliant fitted cross plies right to the mid 80s,and indeed had a warning in every owners handbook stating the fitting of radials was not recommended.The reason isn't cost,cross plies at the limit will slide,important in a three wheeler,radials will grip right until they let go completely,which,if you get to that point,means a rollover.

 

very interesting :) I vaguely remember something about that, happy to find out about it in detail, it explains what I had read that a Model 70 will oversteer when pushed to the limit

as mentioned it would be interesting to see how a Model 70 on 10 inch radials handles when pushed to the limit (we know from DW's adventures that on 12 inch Radials a Model 70 will just understeer, I do wonder if TWC is the first 12 inch Model 70 to be fitted with 12 inch Radial tyres, I think even the tyres egg got for his Mk12 are Cross ply's)

as a side note I also know with the handle bar and tiller bar setups, due to how the steering is setup if you do happen to get one up onto 2 wheels, it will force the handlebars/steering into a dead ahead position apparently 

and extra side note for whats its worth the workshop manual, which sadly only talks about 12 inch model 70's says the tyres are "125x12 4 ply with tubes"

im guessing 4 ply is another way of saying cross ply, but its interesting to note that it says "125x12" rather then however cross plys are normally rated

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25 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

Lights were made by CEP (might be cev) were basically used on trailers,caravans of the period. Reliant first used them on the Regal in 72,rebel in 73 and Robin and kitten from 73 to 81

Oh missed this bit my bad :) 

very interesting thanks for the info! until proven otherwise I guess the Model 70 really was the first vehicle to use them then! LOL

do you happen to have a part number I could look up or such?

(I figured the reliant related bits would be right up your ally :)

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16 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

They aren't made any more if that's what you were hoping for! I can do some digging though

yah sadly im aware they are not made anymore (and sadly they are quite fragile as such I understand they are somewhat sought after?)

im just wondering if anyone does know the Part number/actually make

as during my ongoing research of the Model 70 I realised that I dont know it and I have not seen it posted anywhere

I know details about the Model 67's lights, and the Britax lights that replaced the original Model 70 lights in the 1990's

but I realised I have nothing on the original rear lights

im also hoping I can find some more detail on them (ie when they where first introduced etc) to see how that lines up with the start of Model 70 production in July 1971 :) 

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Just noticed when doing some Invacar related DVLA checking that there's a new field in the list of things it tells you about a car 

image.thumb.png.1eb1793f882aae2967f333271cb59729.png

 

seems to have only been added over the weekend/today

as I dont see in my screen shot of WPC948M, but its something thats been added to all vehicles it seems (and not just a case of XWC showing it because it only recently was added to the online checker)

but interestingly checking a Modern car also shows Not available, maybe they are still updating the databases or something

image.thumb.png.bd540148609825d92efe47568433355c.png

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15 minutes ago, bramz7 said:

Some Yugos I have seen over here:

 

1991 Zastava Yugo 45 Tempo

Now scrapped

 

1991 Zastava Yugo 45.

 

SORN with valid MOT.

 

1992 Zastava Yugo Tempo L.

Scrapped

 

1993 Zastava Yugo 65A.

 

Looks like this one was scrapped this year, gutted.

 

1989 Zastava Yugo 45.

 

This absolute beauty is still on the road, complete with mismatched boot (dark blue) which it has had for easily a decade now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

its interesting to note that all the "scrapped" yugos while they dont show up on the DVLA checker, they do show up on the MOT checker

 

exactly like JNJ135L, does that mean JNJ135L was scrapped at some point or could there be some other reason as to why a vehicle would not show up on the main DVLA checker but still show up on the MOT checker?

I really hope JNJ135L has not been scrapped, not only would it be a crying shame that a Model 70 would of been so recently scrapped, but on top of that JNJ135L is one of the few Model 70's that where sold privately when new

so I really hope its not been scrapped :( 

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8 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

It must have been on the road in 2006 to show up on the MOT checker. 

well I know of plenty of cars that have been dead long since before then but do still show up on the DVLA checker as such show up on the MOT checker (just without any MOT info of course)

I think the not showing up on the DVLA checker but showing up on the MOT checker is something to do with where each one gets its data from

the DVLA checker gets its data from the DVLA, where as the MOT checker will get the data from the DVSA, (but if theres no MOTs etc then it will fall back to the DVLA)

as seen here :) https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-invacar-model-70-acquired-and-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-phase-2-finding-a-suitable-driving-schoolinstructor-getting-lessons-and-a-licence-proof-of-h-and-j-reg-model-70s-discovered/?do=findComment&comment=1852497

 

but yeah JNJ135L last had an MOT in 2012.

 

rather worryingly the Mazda 929 of autoshite fame which we know was issued with a CoD, also does not show up on the DVLA checker but does show up on the MOT checker

image.png.4263daf7bd2358696e9211ed1503d58c.png

side note I noticed when it was on display on @Mrs6C calendar that the registration number looked awfully familiar :mrgreen:

28269953142_3d50fcc994_b.jpg

 

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interesting!

image.thumb.png.274256508b2520cc791a9406b46b93ed.png

despite the Mazda being issued a CoD and the DVLA checker claiming to know nothing about it

the MOT checker says its getting its data for it from the DVLA!

(as I would normally expect for a vehicle which has not had a MOT since 2006, but since the Mazda was CoD'ed and the DVLA checker claimed to not know anything I was not sure what to expect)

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Ok phew! by sheer luck Stuart came online quickly before he went to sleep and messaged me about unrelated things, so just before he went to sleep I asked him about JNJ135L of course

and he said he actually spoke to its owner at the NMR, and the current owner may be actually planning to get it out of storage :)

so very happy to hear its still around! Stuart said he will contact the current owner again just to confirm things etc :) 

(I hope he can get a picture of the Chassis plate, I have never seen a Private AC Model 70's chassis plate so it will be interesting to see how it compares to REV451R's chassis plate, REV451R being a Private Invacar Model 70)

 

the question still stands tho, as to why does JNJ135L not show up on the DVLA checker?

(well it could of still been issued a CoD somehow maybe?, but at least we know the actual Model 70 is safe and sound)

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16 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

interesting!

image.thumb.png.274256508b2520cc791a9406b46b93ed.png

despite the Mazda being issued a CoD and the DVLA checker claiming to know nothing about it

the MOT checker says its getting its data for it from the DVLA!

(as I would normally expect for a vehicle which has not had a MOT since 2006, but since the Mazda was CoD'ed and the DVLA checker claimed to not know anything I was not sure what to expect)

I think vehicles that have a COD issued are actually still on the DVLA system with a particular marker, but the query on the vehicle enquiry site is written to ignore them and not return the data. On a related note, has anyone else noticed that Cazana has recently gone screwy with MOT exempt classics. A lot don't appear at all and instead you get the default "this plate may be available for sale" page, and most return a cryptic "Pre G:Code Data" instead of the make and model. It used to work fine so I don't know what they've changed but it's very unhelpful. Try PEB762R as an example; that's Trigger's prizewinning Marina so we all know it exists, but according to Cazana it isn't a valid registration. YDU590S is a 'Pre G:Code Data' which is odd as it used to correctly say Leyland Cars Maxi.

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6 hours ago, quicksilver said:

I think vehicles that have a COD issued are actually still on the DVLA system with a particular marker, but the query on the vehicle enquiry site is written to ignore them and not return the data. On a related note, has anyone else noticed that Cazana has recently gone screwy with MOT exempt classics. A lot don't appear at all and instead you get the default "this plate may be available for sale" page, and most return a cryptic "Pre G:Code Data" instead of the make and model. It used to work fine so I don't know what they've changed but it's very unhelpful. Try PEB762R as an example; that's Trigger's prizewinning Marina so we all know it exists, but according to Cazana it isn't a valid registration. YDU590S is a 'Pre G:Code Data' which is odd as it used to correctly say Leyland Cars Maxi.

Aye yeah I think that’s the case too regarding the DVLA/CoD thing

same I also noticed the sudden pre g code thing cazana thing too, I have also noticed the pre g code thing on a couple other websites too but I’ll have to check what those are when I’m back home

 

(although on the not a valid reg thing cazana has always been a bit pokey in that regard always)

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3 hours ago, adw1977 said:

I've had the same issues with Cazana.  It's not as useful as it once was anyway, I think the only bit of info it gives that can't be found elsewhere is the previous colour if a change of colour has been recorded by DVLA.

That's another curiosity - it gives the previous colour but not the current colour, which doesn't seem very helpful especially if the previous colour is the one it's painted now so it had an unrecorded repaint back to the original colour. The MOT data for exempt cars is weird too, it obviously doesn't look for previous MOTs on now-exempt cars and just defaults to 3 years from first registration. The Maxi says its MOT expired in March 1981 (i.e. the date of its first test) but the actual last MOT expired in 2018. I guess they're trying to interpret DVLA data and their logic isn't quite right. I'd love to know what 'Pre G:Code Data' actually means.

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On 9/18/2019 at 12:55 PM, quicksilver said:

I'd love to know what 'Pre G:Code Data' actually means.

im not 100% sure what it means but I can give a clue in that the site I use to try and fetch engine numbers and owner counts/changes

does give a "gcode id" and a string of numbers but also says "pre g code" for older vehicles like Model 70's etc

screencapture-enginecentre-vehiclefinder-details-2019-09-19-20_36_03.thumb.png.ea201ea30a2bd781bcd78c9cf3ea096d.png

and here's an example that does not say pre g code data

screencapture-enginecentre-vehiclefinder-details-2019-09-19-20_38_56.thumb.png.1769303971512972230b8a11e92fe3b5.png

 

1 hour ago, Angrydicky said:

Apologies if it’s already been posted, but I’m just working my way through the box set of The New Statesman and there’s an Invacar in one of the episodes. The scene is almost identical to the one in Ali G. Invacar is VPG 245S.

822AEF47-461C-4AD0-9DAF-C661BA6F622D.jpeg

DD2CAE38-053B-4095-8A5B-45E5B7E6C158.jpeg

0EA31DB2-8057-4858-BC56-97D95E1B58E7.jpeg

aye im well aware of that one, but I appreciate the tip off just incase :) (I think its been featured at least 3 times in this thread :mrgreen: )

the VPG-S block (VPS243S-VPG269S) is the last known english AC Model 70 Block, although we know there are at least 48 more Model 70's after VPGS269S, but the only ones we have found ahead of the VPG-S block have been Northern ireland ones (well the 2 we found!)

its Unknown if all the cars after VPG-S were sent to NI or if there's another english reg block of AC Model 70's in there somewhere, I was working my way through the Wxx-S registration series at one point in the hope to finding something but I got a bit side tracked, I need to see if I can find where i last was and finish off :) (going up in steps of 25 takes a while!)

(as a side note between the end of the UPH-S block and the start of the VPG-S block are 20 (well 19) missing cars, but that UOI4719 sits smack bang in the middle of, so I THINK all of those may have been sent to NI)

do you know which episode the scene is from or if the scene is on youtube? it would be amusing to check it out if you say its like the ali g scene :) 

 

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I've found some info on G Codes at http://automotivedataguru.com/VehicleData. They appear to be unique codes that identify a specific model of vehicle but presumably have only been created for models available after a certain date. I guess Cazana and some other sources use the G Code to retrieve the make and model details and when they encounter a vehicle too old to have a G Code it just returns 'Pre G Code Data'.  That would also explain why model names can sometimes be different depending which source you look at; some like Cartell and the BMW Warranty site obviously use the make and model directly from the DVLA record whereas others use the G Code, which sometimes decodes to a different model.

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17 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

Or it was registered before 1989????

Not sure about that as most post-1980 cars appear on Cazana. From a bit more digging on AutoGuru I think the G Code is linked to the VIN so it only exists for vehicles that have a modern 17-digit VIN. One example I found was a 1997 Ford Transit, which Cazana says is a 190 EL but Cartell/BMW say is a 230 presumably because the actual recorded model name is 230 but the G Code decodes to 190 EL.

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heres a quick run down on my experience with a good many reg goes in info comes out websites

Cazana will only pull up a vehicle if its been in continuous tax/SORN or something for a good while from what I have seen (but it will work with some of the "not taxed for on road use" cases whatever that means I still have not figured out!)

for example WVX947, JBY503J or REV451R will happily show up

but TWC725K TPA621M or MPH759P wont show up, and neither will any other Model 70 thats been untaxed since whenever, a good number of other sites also work like this

and then HPI (and a small selection of other websites) seem to have direct or better access to the DVLA database or such, as on those websites, as long as it shows up on the DVLA checker, the website can pull it up and ask you "is this the right vehicle?" regardless of last taxed date and then also my man with the HPI checker can also pull any reg's chassis number regardless of when it was last taxed 

and there's some sites that seem to go by this "if it was taxed into 2001" then it will show up, but if it was last taxed before 2001 it wont show up, or some variant of that

the public chassis number to VIN number websites that I know/knew of all worked like this for example (there was one reg to info site, where it would take a Pre 2001 car, but VIN section would be blank, I do wonder why if a vehicle has been untaxed since before 2001 some websites cant pull its chassis number)

 

sadly I dont currently have a working tool for getting chassis numbers from Reg numbers, I still have my HPI man, but id like to find a tool that I can use personally for "day to day" invalid vehicle research, saving my HPI guy for when I really need him like in the case of the Prototype Model 70's I discovered and the very early, J reg production examples

this was the last tool I knew of that would give me chassis numbers from Reg numbers http://www.whomademybike.com

but now it just gives me this error for any registration I put into it

image.png.54f4e9e7df9f18f2ac8c0430d403aa95.png

so if anyone knows of any alternatives do let me know!

(I am in contact with the people who run the above site tho, as before it broke completely, it had another bug where if the chassis number it pulled up was less than 5 digits long it would give me an error rather then show me the chassis number, this meant I could only run 2001+ Invacar Model 70's through the site, hopefully they will fix both bugs in time but I would like to find an alternetive incase they dont and for redundancy sake)

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9 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

im not 100% sure what it means but I can give a clue in that the site I use to try and fetch engine numbers and owner counts/changes

does give a "gcode id" and a string of numbers but also says "pre g code" for older vehicles like Mode

do you know which episode the scene is from or if the scene is on youtube? it would be amusing to check it out if you say its like the ali g scene :) 

 

It was in series 2 episode 3, ‘The Wapping Conspiracy’. Aired 1989. Has this car featured in other stuff then, or are the sightings from this series?

Not sure if it’s on YouTube.

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Just learned about this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMZ_cyclecar?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf which is the SMZ Cyclecar, the USSR equivalent of an Invacar. Didn’t know where else to share it, but thought it may be appreciated here!

aaea5b1e37ed45f36a7aabdffaa0ab70.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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3 hours ago, Angrydicky said:

It was in series 2 episode 3, ‘The Wapping Conspiracy’. Aired 1989. Has this car featured in other stuff then, or are the sightings from this series?

Not sure if it’s on YouTube.

as in that scene has been posted to this thread about 3 times :) (AFAIK VPG245S was not used in anything else)

but dont worry too much I do appreciate that you shared it here incase I had not seen it!

interesting to note that VPGS245S is Tax Due Sept 1989, along with with a couple other Model 70's iv seen

it seems to me that the producers  simply just asked a repair for any "EOL" ones they could borrow to use for filming, that where then used for filming and then scrapped/written off

I know thats how the 15~ large Model 70 Banger race worked in the 1990s IIRC (in that they just scooped up a load of Model 70's that where going to be destroyed, banger raced em, and then what was left was scrapped officially)

 

(or in the case of Ali G, find a private one somehow! I still need to ask John how they found him/REV for the scene :) )

 

3 hours ago, jumpingjehovahs said:

Just learned about this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMZ_cyclecar?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf which is the SMZ Cyclecar, the USSR equivalent of an Invacar. Didn’t know where else to share it, but thought it may be appreciated here!

aaea5b1e37ed45f36a7aabdffaa0ab70.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ah yes have read about those myself :) theres a Green one for sale here if your interested! https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1115317 (there was another green one that showed up in the UK on UK ebay a while back IIRC, I posted it in the ebay thread if you want to dig it out!)

 

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